A Biblical verse on accepting our gay brethren: Acts 8:26-40

[Brighthouse]

Remember when Jesus himself made a whip??( john 3:15-17) Jesus knew something about the temple,long on words, little upon action! Words of Jesus mean very little,when the life of a member of that church shows more unbelief then belief! Do as I say,not as i do,do not wish to offend a sinner do we? It is time for people to either get to the alter of God,or run out the back door! And stop playing church, and be a church! The Word of God,is meant to be lived,not just preached! Churches need to examine if there candlestick is still among them!( rev 2:5!!) I am all about grace and mercy and love,I also am about DOING what grace teaches to do!!( Titus 2:11-15!!!!) grace instructs us!( verse 12) Do this and have grace,do it not, and grace is taken away from you! verse 15 and let NO ONE disregard you! The church needs to repent itself before telling you to! If a church is like rev 2,the question we as believers must ask is,am i part of the sin i preach against? You judge!! i already am for me!

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

Whatever is not of faith is sin.

Jesus said if you divorce and remarry it IS adultery.

Somehow many remarriages exist in the church and no one is demanding that they divorce and attempt reconciliation with their true spouses,the spouse of their youth.
Somehow these couples in adultery have gotten a free pass from the church and the reason I hear most often for that is
"it is within the economy of the grace of God to sometimes...blah,blah,blah.
Some even seem to think that two divorcees who have left their real spouse and are living together should get married,which of course makes reconciliation with their original spouse even more difficult.

Is that grace or straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel?

Who made the rule book on God's grace?

Malachi 2:16 "The man who hates and divorces his wife," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "does violence to the one he should protect," says the LORD Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.

Divorce is violent and remarriage is adultery.This is way worse than simple fornication.

 

[B-A-C]

Jesus said if you divorce and remarry it IS adultery.

Somehow many remarriages exist in the church and no one is demanding that they divorce and attempt reconciliation with their true spouses,the spouse of their youth.
Somehow these couples in adultery have gotten a free pass from the church and the reason I hear most often for that is
"it is within the economy of the grace of God to sometimes...blah,blah,blah.
Some even seem to think that two divorcees who have left their real spouse and are living together should get married,which of course makes reconciliation with their original spouse even more difficult.

Is that grace or straining out a gnat and swallowing a camel?

Who made the rule book on God's grace?

Malachi 2:16 "The man who hates and divorces his wife," says the LORD, the God of Israel, "does violence to the one he should protect," says the LORD Almighty. So be on your guard, and do not be unfaithful.

Divorce is violent and remarriage is adultery.This is way worse than simple fornication.

Well, I think sin is sin, no matter what the sin is. There are more consequences for some sins, but I don't think some sins are worse than others.
It could be argued that homosexuality is called an abomination, (Lev 18:22; ) fornication and adultery are not called an abomination anywhere I know of.
David committed adultery, but he was forgiven. (2 Sam 12:13; ) David confessed and repented. ( Psalms 51; )
There were consequences for his sin. ( 2 Sam 12:10-18; ) Yet God forgave him.

There are people who are habitual fornicators and adulterers. I know people who have been married 5 or 6 times. I know men who say they have fornicated
with over 30 or 40 different women. Perhaps they are bragging or exaggerating but I myself have seen them with at least 3 or 4 different women. I suspect there
are women who may not be quite as promiscuous but... Jesus knew people like this also. ( John 4:18; John 8:4-11; Luke 7:39; ) and He forgave them if they repented.
(Neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more).
I suspect if they would have kept on in their adultery and fornication, (not repented) forgiveness would be another issue.

So homosexuality is no worse, but it's no better either. People can repent of it, they can be forgiven of it.
But if they choose to continue in it... forgiveness might be another issue.

1 Cor 6:9; Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,
1 Cor 6:10; nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Cor 6:11; Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Fornicators and adulterers are in the list here along with homosexuals. But verse 11 says you can be forgiven of these things if you repent. As for King David the adulterer.
It seems he was married to Bathsheba at least 40 years if not longer. ( 1 Kings 2:11-19; ) Possibly until she died.

Acts 13:22; "After He had removed him, He raised up David to be their king, concerning whom He also testified and said, 'I HAVE FOUND DAVID the son of Jesse, A MAN AFTER MY HEART, who will do all My will.'

I guess Jesus wrote the rules on grace. But any sin (except perhaps blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) can be forgiven if we repent.
I myself am divorced and remarried, but I believe 1 Cor 7:15; applies in my case. I didn't want to get divorced and I never signed the divorce papers.

Some churches preach the idea of "secondary sin".
For example if a woman fornicates or commits adultery with a man (that's a sin) and gets pregnant. She might want to get an abortion to cover up the affair.
That would be adding a second sin to cover up the first sin. ( Kind of like David sending Uriah off to war to be killed ).
Marrying someone who is divorced is also adultery (so that also is a sin) but divorce is also a sin, so if you divorce them (to cover up the sin?)
all you really did was commit a second sin on top of the first sin.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

The Lord is good, His mercy is everlasting
Psalm 100:5

I've never heard of any Christians being delivered from heterosexuality into homosexuality!

But I have heard and read about plenty of Christians who have been delivered from homosexuality
Praise the Lord!

This is one testimony worth reading:

Christian testimony of a former homosexual | The Master's Table

 

[ph8th]

I personally was born a ***** monger a cheat a thief a liar a adulturer a murderer and so on but God gave me choice and regardless of how I was born I choose Him........ I fall short in my own power but through Him Who strengthens me all things are possible.
peter

</SPAN>No longer</SPAN>
Do I walk the path</SPAN></SPAN>
Or road apart from You</SPAN></SPAN>
No longer</SPAN></SPAN>
Do I seek the world</SPAN></SPAN>
as I used to do</SPAN></SPAN>
No longer </SPAN></SPAN>
Is there pleasure</SPAN></SPAN>
In any thing but You</SPAN></SPAN>
Apart from You</SPAN></SPAN>
There is nothing</SPAN></SPAN>
Nothing I can do</SPAN></SPAN>
All the joy in my life</SPAN></SPAN>
It is found in You</SPAN></SPAN>
So I keep my eyes on</SPAN></SPAN>
Jesus </SPAN></SPAN>
All I want is You</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN>

 

[Justin15]

Considering the topic i would like to defend the biblical standpoint on homosexuality. The bible in every way condemns the sin of homosexuality; Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Judges 19:22-23, 1 kings 14:24, 1 kings 15:12, 1 Kings 22:46, 2 Kings 23:7, Romans 1:27, 1 Corinth. 6:9-10, 1 Tim. 1:9-11, Jude 1:7, this is by no means an exhaustive list. The bible states that this act is an abomination before God Lev. 18:22, this sin will bar a person from inheriting the Kingdom of God 1 Cor. 6:9-10. The satanic world system today teaches a doctrine of tolerance which is in no way biblical. It is satanic at it's core, the bible teaches a doctrine of intolerance towards unrepentant sinners 1 corinth. 5:9-13, Christ knew the danger in allowing the world into the church, this is why Christ commanded us to practice church discipline Matt. 18:15-20. Also why we are taught to separate ourselves from sinful practices. 2 corinth. 6:17 The bible also teaches that there is no such thing as a homosexual Christian; "whosoever is born of God does not practice sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot practice sin, because he is born of God." 1 john 3:9. This is simply because when a person is saved by God's grace he repents of his sin and becomes a new creation in Christ. Salvation and repentance are inseparable. Repentance of sin is the outward evidence of one's conversion James 2:14-26. No wonder the bible says homosexuals won't inherit God's Kingdom. Nevertheless no repentance is perfect and believers do struggle with the presence of sin the rest of their short stay here on earth. However victory over sin is an ever present experience in a Christians life "....to be conformed to the image of His Son." Romans 8:29 The conclusion is sin, though present in a believers life, is defeated in Christ, and no long has dominion over him. Therefore a Christian cannot and will not lead a lifestyle of habitual known sin. "therefore if we sin willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a terrifying expectation of judgement ....." Hebrews 10:26-27

 

[RJ]

Considering the topic i would like to defend the biblical standpoint on homosexuality. The bible in every way condemns the sin of homosexuality; Lev. 18:22, Lev. 20:13, Judges 19:22-23, 1 kings 14:24, 1 kings 15:12, 1 Kings 22:46, 2 Kings 23:7, Romans 1:27, 1 Corinth. 6:9-10, 1 Tim. 1:9-11, Jude 1:7, this is by no means an exhaustive list. The bible states that this act is an abomination before God Lev. 18:22, this sin will bar a person from inheriting the Kingdom of God 1 Cor. 6:9-10. The satanic world system today teaches a doctrine of tolerance which is in no way biblical. It is satanic at it's core, the bible teaches a doctrine of intolerance towards unrepentant sinners 1 corinth. 5:9-13, Christ knew the danger in allowing the world into the church, this is why Christ commanded us to practice church discipline Matt. 18:15-20. Also why we are taught to separate ourselves from sinful practices. 2 corinth. 6:17 The bible also teaches that there is no such thing as a homosexual Christian; "whosoever is born of God does not practice sin, for His seed remains in him and he cannot practice sin, because he is born of God." 1 john 3:9. This is simply because when a person is saved by God's grace he repents of his sin and becomes a new creation in Christ. Salvation and repentance are inseparable. Repentance of sin is the outward evidence of one's conversion James 2:14-26. No wonder the bible says homosexuals won't inherit God's Kingdom. Nevertheless no repentance is perfect and believers do struggle with the presence of sin the rest of their short stay here on earth. However victory over sin is an ever present experience in a Christians life "....to be conformed to the image of His Son." Romans 8:29 The conclusion is sin, though present in a believers life, is defeated in Christ, and no long has dominion over him. Therefore a Christian cannot and will not lead a lifestyle of habitual known sin. "therefore if we sin willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin but a terrifying expectation of judgement ....." Hebrews 10:26-27

The key point here is the decision toward habitual and wilfull sin.

 

[B-A-C]

Matthew 23:13-15

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves."

Matthew 23:28

"In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

Matthew 23:27

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all that is foul and unclean."

It's interesting that you use these verses from Matthew 23. Jesus isn't criticizing the Pharisee's because they keep the laws of God. He is criticizing them because they don't.

Matt 23:23; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cummin, and have neglected the weightier provisions of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness; but these are the things you should have done without neglecting the others.
Matt 23:24; "You blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Matt 23:25; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you clean the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of robbery and self-indulgence.
Matt 23:26; "You blind Pharisee, first clean the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of it may become clean also.
Matt 23:27; "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which on the outside appear beautiful, but inside they are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness.
Matt 23:28; "So you, too, outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Matt 15:3; And He answered and said to them, "Why do you yourselves transgress the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition?
Matt 15:4; "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
Matt 15:5; "But you say, 'Whoever says to his father or mother, "Whatever I have that would help you has been given to God,"
Matt 15:6; he is not to honor his father or his mother.' And by this you invalidated the word of God for the sake of your tradition.
Matt 15:7; "You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you:
Matt 15:8; 'THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
Matt 15:9; 'BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'"

Jesus is criticizing them for putting their own laws (man's laws) before the commandments of God.

 

[RJ]

I feel that the Christians who always say that it isn't 'them' that is judging gay people for their sins, but that it's only 'God' who is the one judging are fooling themselves, because it isn't 'God' down here speaking through a burning bush to us: judging, rejecting, condemning, and making other people feel like dirt or worthless, but rather 'they' themselves who are doing that, while exhorting others to do the same sinful and hateful thing; thus taking the place of God in doing so.

We can see that happening on a much more violent level today in Islam by the ISIS and Al-Qaeda fanatics... who seem to believe that they are 'Allah' or 'God' themselves on this Earth, and take it upon themselves to brutalize, condemn, reject, judge, and in many cases kill the perceived 'sinners' in the name of their God, ignoring all teachings of love and acceptance of our fellow human souls we share this Earth with. Thus began the shameful Christian Inquisition of our past... from precisely such misguided people.

For 'our' religion of Christ's teachings, I think the following Biblical Scripture describes them very well, as they are the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees, who used the 'Law' at the time to condemn all others over even the slightest variance from such rigid, static, and unforgiving beliefs, and who even plotted to arrest and then assassinate Jesus Himself, over breaking Scriptural Law because He 'worked' on the Sabbath by picking grain from the fields to feed his hungry followers. Their professed 'love' of others (i.e. 'love the sinner, hate the sin') many times ends up being, or already is the same type of love as a spouse who beats his wife almost to death, and then tells her "I love you so much." It is a truly evil and hateful sickness of both the spirit and the mind, that they infect entire congregations with:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."

James 4:12

"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. But you--who do you think you are to judge your neighbor?"

Matthew 23:13-15

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves."

Matthew 23:28

"In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

Matthew 23:27

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all that is foul and unclean."

1 Timothy 4:1-2

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared as with a hot iron."

It seems to me that they have no conscience at all.. that's it been completely burned away by demonic doctrines, in how rude, rejecting and unloving some 'Christians' are towards gay people.

Apparently you don't know the difference from a true repentant Christian and a deliberate, unrepentant, wilfull sinner. We are to love the sinner but hate the sin.

 

[Justin15]

I feel that the Christians who always say that it isn't 'them' that is judging gay people for their sins, but that it's only 'God' who is the one judging are fooling themselves, because it isn't 'God' down here speaking through a burning bush to us: judging, rejecting, condemning, and making other people feel like dirt or worthless, but rather 'they' themselves who are doing that, while exhorting others to do the same sinful and hateful thing; thus taking the place of God in doing so.

We can see that happening on a much more violent level today in Islam by the ISIS and Al-Qaeda fanatics... who seem to believe that they are 'Allah' or 'God' themselves on this Earth, and take it upon themselves to brutalize, condemn, reject, judge, and in many cases kill the perceived 'sinners' in the name of their God, ignoring all teachings of love and acceptance of our fellow human souls we share this Earth with. Thus began the shameful Christian Inquisition of our past... from precisely such misguided people.

For 'our' religion of Christ's teachings, I think the following Biblical Scripture describes them very well, as they are the modern day equivalent of the Pharisees, who used the 'Law' at the time to condemn all others over even the slightest variance from such rigid, static, and unforgiving beliefs, and who even plotted to arrest and then assassinate Jesus Himself, over breaking Scriptural Law because He 'worked' on the Sabbath by picking grain from the fields to feed his hungry followers. Their professed 'love' of others (i.e. 'love the sinner, hate the sin') many times ends up being, or already is the same type of love as a spouse who beats his wife almost to death, and then tells her "I love you so much." It is a truly evil and hateful sickness of both the spirit and the mind, that they infect entire congregations with:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8

"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails."

James 4:12

"God alone, who gave the law, is the Judge. He alone has the power to save or to destroy. But you--who do you think you are to judge your neighbor?"

Matthew 23:13-15

“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in. Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves."

Matthew 23:28

"In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness."

Matthew 23:27

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all that is foul and unclean."

1 Timothy 4:1-2

"But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared as with a hot iron."

It seems to me that they have no conscience at all.. that's it been completely burned away by demonic doctrines, in how rude, rejecting and unloving some 'Christians' are towards gay people.

Jesus is Love, I do understand your concern with self-righteous religious fanatics who condemn others and justify themselves. This is a sad reality and manifestation of hate that characterizes the lives of unregenerate men and puts a horrible name to Christianity. However, I would like to share with you the extreme of acceptance and tolerance that is not scriptural and is detrimental to peoples that embrace it's destructive and deceitful doctrine. We must understand that God is Holy Psalm 22:3, and His holiness hates sin Psalm 5:4 Psalm 34:16. God must judge sin because His holiness demands it, the bible teaches that men are enemies of God because of their wickedness Col 1:21 Therefore God and mankind are hostile toward each other due to mans sin and God's holiness. This is a state of alienation and hostility. The bible shares the awesome plan of God's redemption by sending His only Son, Jesus Christ, to save the world from their sins. However unfortunately men fail to see also that Christ came to deliver men from their sin and destroy the works of the devil 1 John 3:8. Men can be reconciled to God, by repenting and believing in His Son Jesus Christ Mark 1:15. So we must understand that there is a righteous anger towards sin in every genuine believer and a responsibility to preach the gospel of repentance and believe in Christ. Therefore a hatred for the sin of homosexuality will mark believers in Christ and all other revealed sin as well, but a hate for the homosexual is not scriptural and should not mark any person bearing the name of Christ. We as Christians should not tolerate homosexuality in our Churches, not because of hate, but because of the wickedness therein and the revealed fact that it is indeed a detestable sin against God.

 

[mecco]

Hello Aaron. A while ago, God started talking to me about homosexuals. The message was acceptance, as in Peter's vision of a sheet meant that he was to accept Gentiles. Right after that, an intern pastor "came out", and I knew that God wanted me to accept him as a fellow believer. But I don't know about gay marriage; you are right that my feelings of disgust are stronger than any logic about it. On the other hand, I don't need to have an opinion, really; no one is looking for my support (or not) on that subject.
I liked your insight into Philip and the eunich; it's good to see stories in a new light.

 

[mecco]

As a prophesing Christian, I don't know where you draw the line. I do not consider homosexuals an enemy. What jesus said about enemies though is similar to accepting gay life styles. Jesus said to love your enemy but, show me where he said you were to like and accept what they do. It is not their sin as much as, for those Christian where this applies, it is their blatant denial that they will not do anything about it. They are a Christian, supposedly therefore Christ lives in them, but they acknowledge that they will do nothing to stop their sinful life style, they wilfully sin. How is that Christian? My churches Synod allows Gay Pastors, they won't discriminate based on sexual preference. Your telling me that, I am supposed to go to a church and have my Pastor preach the word of God to me but say , on the other hand, I am supposed to accept his blatant and wilfull sin.

He might as well tell me he is a cat burgular , that he likes it and is not going to stop...what's the differnce? Well, there is a difference, one is a social injustice if you disagree with it because it is not a crime, the other mainly not, it is just a crime.

I personally don't know how anyone can be a Christian, with Christ in them and wilfully sin, it is an oxy-moron to me! A Christian, who hates his sin but still struggles with it, I see a person who is regenerated, the wilfull sinner, not so much! Our Synod now wants to allow gay marriages...where do you draw the line.

Hello RJ! You said, "I personally don't know how anyone can be a Christian, with Christ in them and willfully sin..." Just because it's an oxymoron to you doesn't mean it's an oxymoron to God. I grew up with that Christian. He introduced God to me. He loved Jesus with all his heart. He knew the Bible and taught his kids everything he knew about God, Jesus and the Bible. He took us to church every time the doors were open. We went to church when we went on vacation, even. And he sexually abused me and my two sisters. I don't know if he had intercourse with my sisters, but with me, I had to only had to have my parts fondled, sometimes for hours on end. It's hard to understand, even for me, but I know he is with his best friend, Jesus, now. And I know that God was at work in his life, as He is in yours and mine now. To God be the glory...He knows what He is doing! We just need to trust Him, even when it isn't in our doctrine.

 

[B-A-C]

Hello RJ! You said, "I personally don't know how anyone can be a Christian, with Christ in them and willfully sin..." Just because it's an oxymoron to you doesn't mean it's an oxymoron to God. I grew up with that Christian. He introduced God to me. He loved Jesus with all his heart. He knew the Bible and taught his kids everything he knew about God, Jesus and the Bible. He took us to church every time the doors were open. We went to church when we went on vacation, even. And he sexually abused me and my two sisters. I don't know if he had intercourse with my sisters, but with me, I had to only had to have my parts fondled, sometimes for hours on end. It's hard to understand, even for me, but I know he is with his best friend, Jesus, now. And I know that God was at work in his life, as He is in yours and mine now. To God be the glory...He knows what He is doing! We just need to trust Him, even when it isn't in our doctrine.

It's possible this person repented, if so God forgives. If he didn't repent and kept molesting children he is not forgiven. This isn't "our" doctrine or "my" doctrine.
It's God's Word. It's the Bible. We can trust God. We can trust Him to do what he said he would do.

We can accept people, we can love them. But we aren't supposed to accept the sin they are doing. In fact if they keep doing it, we are supposed to avoid them.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

 

[mecco]

It's possible this person repented, if so God forgives. If he didn't repent and kept molesting children he is not forgiven. This isn't "our" doctrine or "my" doctrine.
It's God's Word. It's the Bible. We can trust God. We can trust Him to do what he said he would do.

We can accept people, we can love them. But we aren't supposed to accept the sin they are doing. In fact if they keep doing it, we are supposed to avoid them.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

It's possible this person repented, if so God forgives. If he didn't repent and kept molesting children he is not forgiven. This isn't "our" doctrine or "my" doctrine.
It's God's Word. It's the Bible. We can trust God. We can trust Him to do what he said he would do.

We can accept people, we can love them. But we aren't supposed to accept the sin they are doing. In fact if they keep doing it, we are supposed to avoid them.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Hello B-A-C! Yes, I see your point...there are many people out there ("so-called brothers") who misuse Christianity for personal gain. And, yes, my dad did repent, to me and to God. I know he continued to be tempted, and have reason to believe that he "fell" more than once. I also saw, after I left his home, God's punishment. (Rev 3:19) and I felt the Holy Spirit's wonderful presence at his passing. My point is that my dad loved God with all his heart, even while he was a child molestor. God was with him, as he is with all of us, as a force of change from sinfulness to holiness. We are way too eager to judge and "remove the wicked man from among yourselves" without seeing our own sinfulness and need for repentance.

 

[RJ]

Hello RJ! You said, "I personally don't know how anyone can be a Christian, with Christ in them and willfully sin..." Just because it's an oxymoron to you doesn't mean it's an oxymoron to God. I grew up with that Christian. He introduced God to me. He loved Jesus with all his heart. He knew the Bible and taught his kids everything he knew about God, Jesus and the Bible. He took us to church every time the doors were open. We went to church when we went on vacation, even. And he sexually abused me and my two sisters. I don't know if he had intercourse with my sisters, but with me, I had to only had to have my parts fondled, sometimes for hours on end. It's hard to understand, even for me, but I know he is with his best friend, Jesus, now. And I know that God was at work in his life, as He is in yours and mine now. To God be the glory...He knows what He is doing! We just need to trust Him, even when it isn't in our doctrine.

You are right about one thing, only God truly knows, and whether he was truly regenerated and repentant for his sin, I don't know, that is up to God to judge. But, I am sorry about this, if he was truly not regenerated and repentant at the time of his death, I am sure God has dealt with him appropriately and possibly , at the end, Jesus said that he didn't know him. An example of this nonregeneration would be a Christian who is a homosexual but, in this day of acceptance, they say that they are not repentant for there sin. in which case, I would seriously doubt that they are Christian with the Holy Spirit in them.
Aside from all this, you are to be comended for forgiving this person!

 

[mecco]

Dear mecco, I see that you have a true heart of love and forgiveness, even when you have been wronged, as Jesus taught us in the verses below. Thank you for sharing your recent experience with God about acceptance. I wish the blessings of Christ upon you!

Mark 11:25

And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.”

Matthew 18:21-22

Then Peter came up and said to him, “Lord, how often will my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? As many as seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you only seven times, but seventy times seven.

Luke 6:32-36

If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the ungrateful and the evil. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful.

Luke 6:37

Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven.


Colossians 3:12-14

Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience, bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. And above all these put on love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony.


Romans 14:1-23

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.


Ephesians 4:32

Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.


Matthew 6:14-15

For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


John 3:16-17

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through Him.

Hello Jesus Is Love! Thanks for the sweet words, but, truth be told, there are many unbelievers out there who are more loving and forgiving than I am. If I have been a blessing to you, give glory to God, our Father, who helps us in all our troubles.

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Hello Aaron. A while ago, God started talking to me about homosexuals. The message was acceptance, as in Peter's vision of a sheet meant that he was to accept Gentiles. Right after that, an intern pastor "came out", and I knew that God wanted me to accept him as a fellow believer. But I don't know about gay marriage; you are right that my feelings of disgust are stronger than any logic about it. On the other hand, I don't need to have an opinion, really; no one is looking for my support (or not) on that subject.
I liked your insight into Philip and the eunich; it's good to see stories in a new light.

Thank you mecco and God bless you.

 

[mecco]

It's possible this person repented, if so God forgives. If he didn't repent and kept molesting children he is not forgiven. This isn't "our" doctrine or "my" doctrine.
It's God's Word. It's the Bible. We can trust God. We can trust Him to do what he said he would do.

We can accept people, we can love them. But we aren't supposed to accept the sin they are doing. In fact if they keep doing it, we are supposed to avoid them.

Heb 10:26; For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27; but a terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.

1 Cor 5:11; But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one.
1 Cor 5:12; For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church?
1 Cor 5:13; But those who are outside, God judges. REMOVE THE WICKED MAN FROM AMONG YOURSELVES.

Rom 1:26; For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural,
Rom 1:27; and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.
Rom 1:32; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only those who do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

Hello B-A-C! Today I was listening to a favorite pastor that I follow...ajesusmoment.com...and although he was not talking about this subject specifically, he had some good points on why not to be exclusive, that is, to be accepting. Check out Preaching In Shorts, The Church, part 13. The main point I heard was that criticizing doesn't change people; love does, Gos does.

 

[B-A-C]

Hello B-A-C! Today I was listening to a favorite pastor that I follow...ajesusmoment.com...and although he was not talking about this subject specifically, he had some good points on why not to be exclusive, that is, to be accepting. Check out Preaching In Shorts, The Church, part 13. The main point I heard was that criticizing doesn't change people; love does, Gos does.

There is a lot of truth in that. Sometimes it takes both.
Eph 4:2; with all humility and gentleness, with patience, showing tolerance for one another in love,
Eph 4:14; As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
Eph 4:15; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ,

2 Tim 2:24; The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
2 Tim 2:25; with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
2 Tim 2:26; and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

1 Cor 13:2; If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Sometimes... letting people continue to do what they want to do without warning them, is not really showing love.
Luke 16:27; "And he said, 'Then I beg you, father, that you send him to my father's house--
Luke 16:28; for I have five brothers--in order that he may warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

Ezek 3:18; "When I say to the wicked, 'You will surely die,' and you do not warn him or speak out to warn the wicked from his wicked way that he may live, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand.
Ezek 3:19; "Yet if you have warned the wicked and he does not turn from his wickedness or from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered yourself.
Ezek 3:20; "Again, when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and I place an obstacle before him, he will die; since you have not warned him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous deeds which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood I will require at your hand.
Ezek 3:21; "However, if you have warned the righteous man that the righteous should not sin and he does not sin, he shall surely live because he took warning; and you have delivered yourself."

 

[Aaron Lindahl]

Lest anyone falsely accuse me of 'promoting' homosexuality by sharing this article from an Anglican priest, I most definitely am not. I am, however condemning murder perpetrated under the name of Christ. Here is an article that is well worth reading on the subject of Christ's teachings being used to justify persecution and worse:

Op-Ed- 'How anti-gay Christians evangelize hate abroad', by Kapya Kaoma. Reverend Kaoma is an Anglican priest and the senior religion and sexuality researcher at Political Research Associates in Boston. He wrote the reports "Colonizing African Values" and "Globalizing the Culture Wars."

If you live in the United States, it's easy to be lulled into thinking that the battle for broader civil rights for gay people is nearly over. The last few years have brought important victories in courts, legislatures and at the ballot box, and momentum is firmly on the side of increased equality.

That's not true, however, in other parts of the world. The hateful vitriol that has fueled U.S. culture wars for so long is now being exported, and some of our most ardent culture warriors are finding a far more receptive audience abroad.

The people of Uganda, Nigeria, Russia and elsewhere are leading their own struggles for human rights. Their fight is difficult enough without campaigns of vilification designed by American preachers who distort the meaning of the Gospels to justify the criminalization , and even murder, of innocents.

In nations such as these, an insidious homophobia engineered in America is taking root. I have seen this hate being spread with my own eyes. People who are gay, or suspected of being gay are being rounded up, beaten, murdered, and even burned to death by ‘Christian’ mobs who have learned such hatred from preachers and pastors in the U.S., who have exported such teachings abroad.

In March 2009, while in Kampala, Uganda, researching reports of U.S. right-wing evangelical involvement in attacks on LGBTQ equality and reproductive justice, I was invited to a three-day conference on homosexuality hosted by the Family Life Network, which is based in New York. The keynote speaker was Scott Lively from Springfield, Mass., who introduced himself as a leading expert on the "international homosexual agenda." I filmed Lively over the course of two days as he instructed religious and political leaders about how gays were coming to Uganda from the West to "recruit children into homosexuality."

Some of his assertions would have been laughable had he not been so deadly serious. He claimed that a gay clique that included Adolf Hitler was behind the Holocaust, and he insinuated that gay people fueled the Rwandan genocide.

In the United States, Lively is widely dismissed as an anti-gay firebrand and Holocaust revisionist. But in Uganda, he was presented — and accepted — as a leading international authority. The public persecution of LGBTQ people escalated after Lively's conference, with one local newspaper publishing the pictures and addresses of activists under the headline, "Hang Them."

Lively was also invited to private briefings with political and religious leaders, and to address the Ugandan parliament during his 2009 visit. The next month, Ugandan lawmaker David Bahati unveiled his Anti-Homosexuality Bill, which in its original form called for the death penalty as punishment for a new crime of "aggravated homosexuality."

In recent years, millions of dollars have been funneled from anti-LGBTQ evangelical conservatives to Uganda, funding local pastors and training them to adopt and mirror the culture-war language of the U.S. Christian right. Bahati and a notorious anti-gay pastor, Martin Ssempa, were personally mentored by U.S. conservatives. And powerful Christian right organizations such as the Family Research Council lobbied Congress to change a resolution denouncing the Uganda legislation.

Other prominent right-wing evangelicals have also made Uganda appearances, including California's Rick Warren and Lou Engle, who founded TheCall ministry. They met with politicians, hosted rallies and public meetings, and used their influence and credibility to contribute to a culture war in Uganda much more intense and explosive than anything seen in the United States; Lively himself described the work as a "nuclear bomb" in Uganda.

In December, the Ugandan parliament finally passed the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, and last month President Yoweri Museveni signed it into law. The death penalty provision was removed, but the law includes life sentences for homosexual "repeat offenders" and criminalizes advocacy on behalf of LGBTQ Ugandans.

Uganda has deservedly received widespread attention, but it's not the only country with a culture war that carries the fingerprints of U.S. campaigners. Nigeria has passed a bill almost identical to Uganda's, and Cameroon and Zambia are enthusiastically imprisoning LGBTQ people.

And let's not forget Russia. In 2007, Lively traveled throughout Russia to, as he put it, bring a warning about the "homosexual political movement." He urged Russians, among other things, "to criminalize the public advocacy of homosexuality." Last year, President Vladimir Putin signed a bill into law that criminalizes distribution of "gay propaganda" to minors, including any material that "equates the social value of traditional and nontraditional sexual relations." In Russia, because of this law, gay people are being beaten and even murdered now, with no response from the authorities.