ARE WE NUTS?

[Laeomis]

I believe the period at the end of your sentence may be a problem. Even your own scripture continues -

When people who are fighting injure a pregnant woman so that there is a miscarriage, and yet no further harm follows, the one responsible shall be fined what the woman's husband demands, paying as much as the judges determine.​

(Exodus 21:22 NRSV)​

There is judicial oversight.

But remember, we're taking social justice policies from a culture that owned slaves ???

Rhema

Yes. It has to pass through a council of judges.

No one needs to learn to read and speak Greek or Hebrew to understand the Bible.
There are a few sites that have both into English and the most accurate translation. It does NOT read as a book Bible.

"That said, not a single English version has ever accurately translated Ephesians 6:17." - By who's authority?

I agree, it is the word of God. I read a variety of different translations because each translation has pros and cons, but reading them all fills in the gaps.

The jealousy offering performed by the priest to curse the wife if she committed adultery does not mention the lose of life in the womb in the KJV.

The NIV has an add in on it.

I've read over different articles and have gone over many translations of this passage. There is no way around that what is being performed is an abortion. The language is discreet, but anyone with any understanding of human life will know that what is being described will result in a miscarriage for an adulterous woman. On top of that the woman also becomes sterilized for having this sort of miscarriage. Whatever is contained in the bitter water has the effect of causing an abortion if the woman is pregnant, and a miscarriage under these conditions will also sterilize her and leave her a curse to Israel.

On top of this the argument goes further and reaches Revelation. Jesus Christ says he will strike the children of Jezebel with death for her adultery, and Jezebel and her lovers will be thrown into great tribulation (Revelation 2:22-23). Jesus himself will be going around killing children like the law prescribed for the children of adultery. Try taking this away, you might get your name blotted out the book of the living (Revelation 22:19). Deuteronomy 29:20

18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;

19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

20 The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven.

21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;

23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?

25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:

26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:

28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.​

 

[Charlie24]

Yes. It has to pass through a council of judges.

I agree, it is the word of God. I read a variety of different translations because each translation has pros and cons, but reading them all fills in the gaps.

I've read over different articles and have gone over many translations of this passage. There is no way around that what is being performed is an abortion. The language is discreet, but anyone with any understanding of human life will know that what is being described will result in a miscarriage for an adulterous woman. On top of that the woman also becomes sterilized for having this sort of miscarriage. Whatever is contained in the bitter water has the effect of causing an abortion if the woman is pregnant, and a miscarriage under these conditions will also sterilize her and leave her a curse to Israel.

On top of this the argument goes further and reaches Revelation. Jesus Christ says he will strike the children of Jezebel with death for her adultery, and Jezebel and her lovers will be thrown into great tribulation (Revelation 2:22-23). Jesus himself will be going around killing children like the law prescribed for the children of adultery. Try taking this away, you might get your name blotted out the book of the living (Revelation 22:19). Deuteronomy 29:20

18 Lest there should be among you man, or woman, or family, or tribe, whose heart turneth away this day from the Lord our God, to go and serve the gods of these nations; lest there should be among you a root that beareth gall and wormwood;

19 And it come to pass, when he heareth the words of this curse, that he bless himself in his heart, saying, I shall have peace, though I walk in the imagination of mine heart, to add drunkenness to thirst:

20 The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven.

21 And the Lord shall separate him unto evil out of all the tribes of Israel, according to all the curses of the covenant that are written in this book of the law:

22 So that the generation to come of your children that shall rise up after you, and the stranger that shall come from a far land, shall say, when they see the plagues of that land, and the sicknesses which the Lord hath laid upon it;

23 And that the whole land thereof is brimstone, and salt, and burning, that it is not sown, nor beareth, nor any grass groweth therein, like the overthrow of Sodom, and Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim, which the Lord overthrew in his anger, and in his wrath:

24 Even all nations shall say, Wherefore hath the Lord done thus unto this land? what meaneth the heat of this great anger?

25 Then men shall say, Because they have forsaken the covenant of the Lord God of their fathers, which he made with them when he brought them forth out of the land of Egypt:

26 For they went and served other gods, and worshipped them, gods whom they knew not, and whom he had not given unto them:

27 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against this land, to bring upon it all the curses that are written in this book:

28 And the Lord rooted them out of their land in anger, and in wrath, and in great indignation, and cast them into another land, as it is this day.

29 The secret things belong unto the Lord our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.​

God never gave man permission to carry out an abortion. What God does and why He does it is most often not known to us.

He has killed women and children and I'm sure somewhere along the way He killed pregnant women.

He had a reason for it, and we are foolish to question Him. But the fact remains, He never gave man permission to do it.

That's why God has said, life for life concerning a woman and her unborn child.

 

[Charlie24]

God never gave man permission to carry out an abortion. What God does and why He does it is most often not known to us.

He has killed women and children and I'm sure somewhere along the way He killed pregnant women.

He had a reason for it, and we are foolish to question Him. But the fact remains, He never gave man permission to do it.

That's why God has said, life for life concerning a woman and her unborn child.

You people keep searching the Scripture to find something to condone murder in the womb.

You're not going to find it in God's Word!

 

[Laeomis]

God never gave man permission to carry out an abortion. What God does and why He does it is most often not known to us.

He has killed women and children and I'm sure somewhere along the way He killed pregnant women.

He had a reason for it, and we are foolish to question Him. But the fact remains, He never gave man permission to do it.

That's why God has said, life for life concerning a woman and her unborn child.

Well he did and it is in Numbers 5:11 and is called the Trial of Jealousy.

 

[Charlie24]

Well he did and it is in Numbers 5:11 and is called the Trial of Jealousy.

That was the power of God that put a curse on the woman if she was lying.

The priest was there only to administer what God had ordered.

This in no way gives man the right kill the womb.

 

[Laeomis]

That was the power of God that put a curse on the woman if she was lying.

The priest was there only to administer what God had ordered.

This in no way gives man the right kill the womb.

Ok, because there are two ways to see this passage. Most people when they read it in the King James Version for the first time believe that the operation is completely through spiritual power, that no chemicals are used and that the power is completely within God and the written curse to do what it does to the woman.

Other people after they have been told or read the New International Version realize that some sort of birth control drug is being used and the power is in chemistry.


So you believe the power of this law is completely spiritual, in the heart of God and the curse of the priest?

 

[Charlie24]

Ok, because there are two ways to see this passage. Most people when they read it in the King James Version for the first time believe that the operation is completely through spiritual power, that no chemicals are used and that the power is completely within God and the written curse to do what it does to the woman.

Other people after they have been told or read the New International Version realize that some sort of birth control drug is being used and the power is in chemistry.


So you believe the power of this law is completely spiritual, in the heart of God and the curse of the priest?

The answer to that is found in Numbers 5:19

"And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:"

The woman was given the bitter water, if she was telling the truth, no harm came to her. If she was lying the bitter water water would bring on the curse.

So yes, it was 100% done by the knowledge of God, and was caused by God.

 

[Laeomis]

The answer to that is found in Numbers 5:19

"And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:"

The woman was given the bitter water, if she was telling the truth, no harm came to her. If she was lying the bitter water water would bring on the curse.

So yes, it was 100% done by the knowledge of God, and was caused by God.

In order for that to work the priests would have to be possession of the Urim and Thummim (Deuteronomy 33:8). Otherwise a birth control drug that only reacts with pregnancy would work. This would work if the husband was not sleeping with his wife, then he would take her to the priests to have this abortion. If she was telling the truth under oath, and actually was pregnant with her husband's child and did not know it, then I guess the Urim and Thummim would prevent the bitter water from sterilizing her. Under most cases the husband would bring her there if he wasn't sleeping with her and became jealous sensing she cheated on him. You can also see under this example how if a husband just wanted his wife to get an abortion could take her to the priests under the trial and have it done.

This is what Joseph goes through when Mary becomes pregnant without him. Joseph decides not to bring Mary into the Trial of Jealousy, but to divorce her secretly. Then an angel intervenes and tells him not to worry about it. Matthew 1:19-20

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.


19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.


20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,


23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:


25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.​

 

[Charlie24]

In order for that to work the priests would have to be possession of the Urim and Thummim (Deuteronomy 33:8). Otherwise a birth control drug that only reacts with pregnancy would work. This would work if the husband was not sleeping with his wife, then he would take her to the priests to have this abortion. If she was telling the truth under oath, and actually was pregnant with her husband's child and did not know it, then I guess the Urim and Thummim would prevent the bitter water from sterilizing her. Under most cases the husband would bring her there if he wasn't sleeping with her and became jealous sensing she cheated on him. You can also see under this example how if a husband just wanted his wife to get an abortion could take her to the priests under the trial and have it done.

This is what Joseph goes through when Mary becomes pregnant without him. Joseph decides not to bring Mary into the Trial of Jealousy, but to divorce her secretly. Then an angel intervenes and tells him not to worry about it. Matthew 1:19-20

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.


19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.


20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins.


22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,


23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:


25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name Jesus.​

Man, you are desperate. Now you've brought a non-existent "birth control drug" into the Scripture.

Just go ahead and write your own Scripture for the abortionists.

 

[MedicBravo]

One example of the problem with different translations where the wrong word is used:
Exodus 20:13:

KJV is widely known and regarded as the closest translation to English but the whole "Thou, art, etc." is old language and many find it hard to read and understand in modern English.

Some day "Do not kill." while other say "Do not murder."
"Do not kill." would include ALL life would it not? It would and that includes plants and any argument we shouldn't eat meat is further lessened.
Murder only applies to people. People, if found guilty, can go to prison, for life, and even be executed for it.

Cain murdered Abel.
Abel killed the lamb and the offering, "a life for a life substitute" was at the time pleasing to God.
Cain "killed" the produce which did not contain the lifeblood required.

 

[Rhema]

No one needs to learn to read and speak Greek or Hebrew to understand the Bible.

NO ONE ?!?!?

Then how, pray tell, did you even get a translation?

That seems nuts.

The thing is, you put wild reckless faith in your translations. I did not, and determined to learn the language for myself, and it turns out I was right.

"That said, not a single English version has ever accurately translated Ephesians 6:17." - By who's authority?

It's a question of grammar, not "authority." Any college level Greek professor could show it to you. (Take one to lunch and ask about squinting modifiers.)

Rhema

There are a few sites that have both into English and the most accurate translation.

How would you know if you don't know the language?

But I'm done with it here. You are obviously combative, or would have had the humility to ask in order to learn.

 

[Rhema]

I agree, it is the word of God. I read a variety of different translations because each translation has pros and cons, but reading them all fills in the gaps.

That's a nice bedtime story to tell yourself.

Learn the language and you wouldn't need to "read a variety of different translations," and wouldn't have to deal with "pros and cons."

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Abel killed the lamb and the offering, "a life for a life substitute" was at the time pleasing to God.

You might want to think about that.

And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had H8159 שָׁעָה unto Abel and to his offering:​

(Genesis 4:4 KJV)​

Strong's - H8159 - be nonplussed (as looking around in amazement) or bewildered:
Abel's sacrifice perplexed God.

It becomes more interesting the more you learn the language.

Rhema

 

[Bill Taylor]

Have ya seen that Cali bill trying to be passed... Very disturbing and very sad.. they want to h able to abort the day before the due date n I believe up until the baby is a month old they can have it killed .

I saw that and it breaks my heart.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Just wondering if you'll step in to pay for it...
(adopt a kid? financially support a mom?)

The problem with adopting is not the availability of people to adopt, there are millions wanting those children but cannot the government, lawyer, and court fees.

 

[Laeomis]

That's a nice bedtime story to tell yourself.

Learn the language and you wouldn't need to "read a variety of different translations," and wouldn't have to deal with "pros and cons."

Rhema

The Bible is the living word. There is no original version of the scripture that exists today, everything has been copied down from previous sources that have been destroyed. The oldest copies that exist of the Old Testament are the Septuagint which was translated in the 3rd century B.C. into Greek from Hebrew (Reeves, 2018). The Masoretic is the authentic Hebrew version that most Bibles are based off of, but is even younger at 900 A.D. (My Jewish Learning). The Dead Sea Scrolls are probably the most authentic thing discovered in 1947 and dating to 100 B.C. (Biblica). The Hebrew language was destroyed during the Babylonian invasion about 500 B.C. and prior to this time the Hebrew language was much different. The Babylonians had most of the Hebrew scrolls destroyed (Benner). So there is no authentic version of the Bible everything has been copied down repeatedly, but God knows the meaning beyond the words in his heart (King James Version, 1611/1987, Matthew 6:8).


Benner, J. A. (n.d.). A short history of the Hebrew language. Ancient Hebrew Research Center.

A Short History of the Hebrew Language | AHRC

The history of the Hebrew language from ancient times, Biblical times, the time of the Babylonian captivity and the Bar Kockba revolt and into modern times with the creation of the State of Israel.

ancient-hebrew.org

Biblica. (n.d.). In what language was the Bible first written?

In what language was the Bible first written?

The first human author to write down the biblical record was Moses. He was commanded by God to take on this task, for Exodus 34:27 records God's words to Moses, "Write down these words, for

www.biblica.com

King James Version. (1987). Public domain. (Original work published 1611).

Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 6 - King James Version

Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men...

www.biblegateway.com

My Jewish Learning. (n.d.). The Masoretic text.

The Masoretic Text | My Jewish Learning

masorah,masoretes,masoretic text,jewish bible,septuagint,vulgate,biblical criticism,lower criticism,higher criticism,rabbi louis jacobs

www.myjewishlearning.com

Reeves, R. (2018, August, 12). What is the Septuagint? The Gospel Coalition.

What Is the Septuagint?

The Septuagint is a collection of various Greek translations of the Old Testament and it is helpful to understanding the Old and New Testament.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

 

[MedicBravo]

NO ONE ?!?!?

Then how, pray tell, did you even get a translation?

That seems nuts.

The thing is, you put wild reckless faith in your translations. I did not, and determined to learn the language for myself, and it turns out I was right.


It's a question of grammar, not "authority." Any college level Greek professor could show it to you. (Take one to lunch and ask about squinting modifiers.)

Rhema


How would you know if you don't know the language?

But I'm done with it here. You are obviously combative, or would have had the humility to ask in order to learn.

"needs" When the Bible was NOT translated then doing it in other languages was needed. Not so and hasn't been for a long time.
The Bible has been translated into almost all known languages. It is access to a written Bible that is the main problem.
"The thing is, you put wild reckless faith in your translations." - Assumption.

" I did not, and determined to learn the language for myself, and it turns out I was right." How do we know?
Ok, so? It doesn't make you or anyone else who can better than the rest of us.

By your "suggestion" on the original language and text are "correct". God is not the author of confusion.
Like many I used KJV/NKJV as my main and have 2-3 different versions or study bibles and other information, especially secular to back up God and the Bible.
Pretty sure access to God and learning of Him and human history isn't locked behind some "Greek professor degree".

"You are obviously combative" - Another assumption. We're both reading text here and if I were combative you'd know it.

The real Word comes from God not from ANY human, especially some "Greek professor". If it were on part, then we'd have to learn it AND only use Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic Bibles of which would greatly reduce the number of Christians.

"But I'm done with it here." - Ok.
Many good preachers/pastors aren't fluent in Greek or Hebrew but have learned enough they put it in their sermons and classes.

English belongs to the Indo-European family of languages. We know from the Bible and human history that Japheth (the father of White Indo European peoples) settled in and populated this area.
If all these translations were wrong then well-learned and experienced Christians would have learned of it long ago.

 

[Rhema]

The problem with adopting is not the availability of people to adopt, there are millions wanting those children but cannot the government, lawyer, and court fees.

Well Bill, sound the trumpets, print the leaflets, fund a unwed mother ministry.

 

[Rhema]

The Bible is the living word.

The Bible is ink on paper. Both are dead. So again, it's a nice bedtime story, but that's not what I'm here for. Or are you trying to promote a doctrine that preaches that the Gospel can change over time? (Just not sure, no offence intended.)

There is no original version of the scripture that exists today, everything has been copied down from previous sources that have been destroyed.

Doesn't that assertion kill the whole "Bible is the LIVING word" thing? If the text isn't important, then let's just hold hands and sing "Kum ba yah". If the text IS important, then shouldn't one make the effort to learn the language?

So there is no authentic version of the Bible everything has been copied down repeatedly, but God knows the meaning beyond the words in his heart (King James Version, 1611/1987, Matthew 6:8).

I'm slightly inclined to agree with you here, but the conclusion is that the text doesn't matter at all. Is that a position that you wish to take? If so, what is one to do when encountering dozens if not hundreds of people who preach conflicting Christian teachings?

Wait.... are you Catholic? (But a Catholic wouldn't reference the KJV.) So then, what is the basis for your Ecclesiastical Authority?

Rhema

PS: In that we don't know each other, I thank you for posting the references, but they are a bit elementary to me.

Perhaps you'd be more comfortable with Aramaic scriptures then. Here's a link back at ya brother.

TheAramaicScriptures.com

The Holy Aramaic Scriptures: With a literal English translation and transliteration of The Eastern Peshitta New Testament Text, such as given in The Khabouris Codex.

www.thearamaicscriptures.com

 

[hopefulson]

Are We Nuts?​

People are lining up again without a single thought as to what happened before the immature young fool tried yo murder the 45th president. I have no sympathy for his family but the world must learn that they do not deserve misery and we might never know the truth. If you, like I, are going to vote for President Trump, please, can we not be shooting and P---ing off those gun-toting Democrat Socialists?​

The belief that we might never know the truth capitulates to the rule of the lie. We must fight for and know the truth and make it known. In God's Holy Kingdom there are no excuses and no choices that are inconsequential. All lies come with a price. The first thing we lose is justice and with that next comes the loss of freedom.