Atheism

[Beans]

I am an agnostic atheist. However, i am not against personal experience as justification for belief. The only problem i have, is that Personal experience is necessarily personal, and i cannot base my belief on someone elses experience. So, i suppose my question is, how do you get past the hurdle of a lack of personal experience in order to believe?

Hi Asanimia. Sorry about the late reply.
I don't really have it all worked out, but I guess you just have to do what the rest of us do, which is just to keep asking for answers.
I agree that you cannot base your faith on someone else's experiences, it is something that we all have to work out for ourselves.
I believe that if you keep seeking God that HE will find you, and you will find him.
There is so much delusion and deception in religious circles, I suggest that you take a look at the TEACHINGS of JESUS, as opposed to the teachings of a particular church or religion. One of the main problems with modern Christianity is that it has become so respectable that it no longer reflects the radical, fringe movement that the followers of Jesus were in the 1st century.
After having rejected Christianity as a false religion based on what I was seeing in modern Christianity, I discovered that the Teachings of Jesus made much more sense, and by trying to follow what he actually said I was able to get started on experimenting with faith, which led to personal experiences.
I don't think that you need to have everything worked out before you start do something.
If you can get hold of a Bible, have a read of Mathew 5, 6 and 7. This is what has been called "The Sermon on the Mount". Jesus basically lays out his philosophy and vision for how the World could be if we were committed to love.
You will notice that what he says is pretty revolutionary on many levels and cuts to the quick of most of the World's problems of violence and greed.

Love Beans

 

[Jaareshiah]

First, prove to me that you have 100% absolute infinite intellectual knowledge that GOD does not exist (including proof that extends beyond our universe, space and everything beyond). Once you can do that, feel free follow up with your responses to the above questions.

The apostle Paul did not stifle conversation by demanding that a person prove analytically everything they believed, which in many cases is that no God exists. Rather, in reaching those who were basically "atheist", such as the Greeks who were noted for being philosophers, he came down to their level. He said that "to the Jew I became as a Jew....to those under law I became as under law....to those without law I became as without law....to the weak I became weak....I have become all things to people of all sorts that I might by all means save some."(1 Cor 9:20-22)

A true Christian should be willing to discuss topics from A to Z, whether or not the person believes in God or not. The apostle Paul set the pattern for this, traveling to areas in the Roman Empire that had no acceptance of God, though some had a religious devotion to idols. He reasoned with both Epicurean and Stoic philosophers.(Acts 17:18-31)

Many who feel that they are "Christian" have shown a propensity to "shut down" any conversation if it veers off their line of thought. Yes, it requires a considerable effort to reason or provide reasonable evidence to someone that a Creator exists, even a considerable "library".

However, to encourage a person to bring "to the table" what they believe or accept is necessary if a someone who calls themselves a "Christian" really wants to follow in Jesus "footsteps"(1 Pet 2:21), and of which the apostle Paul said: "Become imitators of me, even as I am of Christ."(1 Cor 11:1)

 

[Aida Agraan]

Does anyone know how to delete their account?

 

[strages]

Does anyone know how to delete their account?

Why? For telling the truth? I totally agree with Jaareshiah, if he wants proof, give it to him. Christians should be able to do that, seeing as how it is true and all. Come down to whatever level he wants you to, and then reason with him.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

God's existence cannot be proved empirically; if it could, faith would not be necessary. However, tons of circumstantial evidence exists to point in that direction.

SLE

 

[DHC]

God's existence cannot be proved empirically; if it could, faith would not be necessary. However, tons of circumstantial evidence exists to point in that direction.

SLE

Hello SpiritLedEd.

Nor can the existence of God be disproved by any empirical procedure or evidence!

Science assumes God does not exist or intervene within creation.

Science cannot prove or disprove God's existence.

 

[Hekuran]

Let's rethink the whole thing

Back to the OP. I admire quite a bit of CARM's work, but think that the fundamental approach of the opening article - attacking atheism - is misdirected.

Given the human nature that we all share, attacking a person's belief will almost always be received as an attack on the person. The most likely outcomes from this are heated emotion, tension, defensiveness- a point-scoring debate rather than a constructive dialogue. That's hardly an ideal foundation for sharing the gospel.

Dealing with atheists - or anybody else - in this way gets dangerously close to treating others as objects to be won over rather than humans lovingly created in the image of God.

It is utterly naive to think that we can utterly destroy a person's worldview with logic and evidence, and then be able to lead them to something new. It is a profoundly uncompassionate thing to attempt to do. I don't know of anybody who has come to faith in this way.I am not saying that there is no place for logic and debate.

I do believe in Truth with a capital T: That truth is found in a person not in an argument.

I would suggest a better way to 'deal' with atheists is to find genuine common ground from which to build a honest friendship. Shared love of coffee? children at the same stage of development? concern for the environment?

When talking about faith, begin with the person and teaching of Jesus rather than a discussion of evolution - someone earlier in the thread mentioned the Sermon on the Mount (perfect).

One of the fundamental differences between a Christian understanding of the world and an atheistic one is that we believe that the whole created order is borne of a loving relationship of Father Son and Holy Spirit.

If we are to argue for this, we need to be able to show it in the quality of our relationships and the way we treat others.

 

[cinckid]

All of these arguments are sound in reason and logic.
So God created everything. Including humans. And right at the outset of this creation, he gives Eve the ability to pluck an apple from the tree of Good and Evil, offer it to Adam and doom His creation right at the beginning. He knows all, he was, and is, and is to come so why would He let that happen from the very start? I think that's ridiculous. If He is the same God who created the universe and all the complexities within, why would He do that? It doesn't make sense to me. I believe in intelligent design. The universe and everything in it was designed. By a force. Call it God, if you will. But the notion of a "son" of God coming to Earth to save mankind seems rather farfetched. I do believe that Jesus lived and taught in AD 30 but I have a hard time believing that he was a savior - that he sacrificed his life so that we could live. That is way out there.

Having said all of that, I would love it if it were true. But after I was baptized and offered my life to him, there was no indication that he heard me. None.

That was 9 years ago. Nine years of going to church, praying, obeying and living the life I'm supposed to live. No presence ever felt. In spite of countless prayer sessions, life groups, personal time with his word, etc. The Earth and the Universe is billions of years old - man has been here 6000 years. That's a drop in the bucket of life. Civilizations have for years put their faith in gods, are we so different?

 

[LoveStory]

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, Nor are your ways My ways. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways And My thoughts than your thoughts." (Isaiah 55:8-9)

"Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." (John 20:26-29)

"I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost." (Revelation 21:6)

 

[RJ]

All is folly to the unsaved.

 

[RJ]

All of these arguments are sound in reason and logic.
So God created everything. Including humans. And right at the outset of this creation, he gives Eve the ability to pluck an apple from the tree of Good and Evil, offer it to Adam and doom His creation right at the beginning. He knows all, he was, and is, and is to come so why would He let that happen from the very start? I think that's ridiculous. If He is the same God who created the universe and all the complexities within, why would He do that? It doesn't make sense to me. I believe in intelligent design. The universe and everything in it was designed. By a force. Call it God, if you will. But the notion of a "son" of God coming to Earth to save mankind seems rather farfetched. I do believe that Jesus lived and taught in AD 30 but I have a hard time believing that he was a savior - that he sacrificed his life so that we could live. That is way out there.

Having said all of that, I would love it if it were true. But after I was baptized and offered my life to him, there was no indication that he heard me. None.

That was 9 years ago. Nine years of going to church, praying, obeying and living the life I'm supposed to live. No presence ever felt. In spite of countless prayer sessions, life groups, personal time with his word, etc. The Earth and the Universe is billions of years old - man has been here 6000 years. That's a drop in the bucket of life. Civilizations have for years put their faith in gods, are we so different?

• Jesus is either who he said he was or he is a raving lunatic. Many cultures have documented proof that he existed and believe he was a great prophet. Your challenge is to discover him as the one true God.
• Jesus stands at your door and knocks and wishes to come in but the door knob is on your side of the door.
• Jesus didn't come down to save you as much as he came down to get inside you; that is the mystery of our age and the requirement for being "Born Again".
• You must genuinley admit you are a sinner, open that door and ask Jesus to come in and be your Savior. Until you do this, you will never understand.

 

[james1523]

How to Be Saved

Many times people say "pray the sinners prayer" , they say what to pray but they don't tell you how to pray it. To be genuinely saved we have to be desperate for it. We have to feel like we are on the Titantic which is sinking and we are crying out to the only one who can save us. I tell you that even atheists will cry out to God when they know they are about to die. That is how we should feel if we know we are going to hell if we don't turn to Jesus.

To pray properly and genuinely we have to exercise our will, call upon His name loudly and audibly "Lord Jesus", and use our spirit, the deepest part of us, not our mind, not our feelings, not our thoughts. You have to cry out to Him from the depths of your being. We may or may not feel anything at first, but we should have a sense that someone is listening to us and hearing us, and we should sense there is another person inside of us. If we don't sense or feel anything keep calling and crying out to Jesus until you feel something, and most importantly, don't give up, ask, seek, knock, pray 100 times the same prayer if necessary.... God does not respond to half-hearted prayers or quitters.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Isn't it true that there are few true atheists; that most professed atheists are in fact wounded theists, people who've been badly hurt in some way and are using that hurt as an excuse?

SLE

 

[Chad]

All of these arguments are sound in reason and logic.
So God created everything. Including humans. And right at the outset of this creation, he gives Eve the ability to pluck an apple from the tree of Good and Evil, offer it to Adam and doom His creation right at the beginning. He knows all, he was, and is, and is to come so why would He let that happen from the very start? I think that's ridiculous. If He is the same God who created the universe and all the complexities within, why would He do that? It doesn't make sense to me. I believe in intelligent design. The universe and everything in it was designed. By a force. Call it God, if you will. But the notion of a "son" of God coming to Earth to save mankind seems rather farfetched. I do believe that Jesus lived and taught in AD 30 but I have a hard time believing that he was a savior - that he sacrificed his life so that we could live. That is way out there.

Having said all of that, I would love it if it were true. But after I was baptized and offered my life to him, there was no indication that he heard me. None.

That was 9 years ago. Nine years of going to church, praying, obeying and living the life I'm supposed to live. No presence ever felt. In spite of countless prayer sessions, life groups, personal time with his word, etc. The Earth and the Universe is billions of years old - man has been here 6000 years. That's a drop in the bucket of life. Civilizations have for years put their faith in gods, are we so different?

Can you dispute all the miracles that Christians including myself have witnessed?

Can you dispute the biblical artifacts that have been found the past several hundred years?

Can you even argue against over 100 fulfilled biblical prophecies?

Do you know what happened 2014 years ago that the entire world started tracking calendar time?

Did you know there was over 500 witnesses of Jesus' resurrection and they are documented as well?

It is not God's fault that you have not sensed His presence. It is a heart condition within you that causes any hindrance of a proper relationship with him. I know that for a fact because the Bible says so and I've also experienced something similar until I decided to grow up and mature in my relationship with the Lord over the years.

 

[Chad]

@cinckid

This is not a coincidence that I just saw today's Bible verse of the day...

The LORD is near to all who call on him, to all who call on him in truth. He fulfills the desires of those who fear him; he hears their cry and saves them.
Psalm 145:18-19

 

[Julie.S]

I just wanted to add that I have friends who are Atheist and of other religions. They have never tried to tell me that my religion is wrong or bash what I believe. I do not see what use there is in telling someone they are wrong in what they believe religion wise anyway.

 

[Chad]

I just wanted to add that I have friends who are Atheist and of other religions. They have never tried to tell me that my religion is wrong or bash what I believe. I do not see what use there is in telling someone they are wrong in what they believe religion wise anyway.

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Acts 13:46
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

 

[Julie.S]

2 Timothy 3:16-17
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Acts 13:46
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, "It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

Mark 16:15
He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.

Yes I understand that.

 

[Brad Huber]

Wonderful are the feet that bring good news. Those who are neither cold nor hot in their faith (lukewarm) are despised by the Lord. Why bother even being a christian if you dont think its important enough to share the good news with others.

 

[Julie.S]

Wonderful are the feet that bring good news. Those who are neither cold nor hot in their faith (lukewarm) are despised by the Lord. Why bother even being a christian if you dont think its important enough to share the good news with others.

Can you please tell me where it says that directly and what version of the Bible it is from please? I just want to know.