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B.C. Johnson: Why does God allow suffering?

OK sorry I didn't think that was your answer, thanks for the clarification. Now let me help you gain some understanding on this.

But how can I curse those whom God has not cursed? How can I condemn those whom the LORD has not condemned? Numbers 23:8


Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:1-3

"Today I am giving you the choice between a blessing and a curse! You will be blessed if you obey the commands of the LORD your God that I am giving you today. You will receive a curse if you reject the commands of the LORD your God and turn from his way by worshiping foreign gods. Deut. 11:26-28


P.S. Not trying to argue, just trying to set things straight.:wink:

So far so good. The commands of the Lord translates to 'The Word of the Lord' Agreed? Therefore if one chooses not to live by the Word he is living in darkness where the curse is. Agreed? Its in the darkness that the monsters live. LOL
 
What are the sufferings spoken of here? Not physical suffering. Jesus took that on himself on the cross. so we would not have to suffer. The suffering spoken of in this verse is more situational. As in a learning experience.

"(Speaking to Peter,Jesus said)'I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.' Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God." (Jn 21:18-19 NIV).

Your belief seems to ignore the physically painful martyrdoms of Peter, the people listed in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, the deaths reported in the Voice of the Martyrs newsletters I receive, and others reported by missionary organizations. These are not mental/situational sufferings, they are violent, brutal deaths.

SLE
 
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I thought the suffering still about faith not physically.other suffering for money..ETC...not about faith.
 
"(Speaking to Peter,Jesus said)'I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.' Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God." (Jn 21:18-19 NIV).

Your belief seems to ignore the physically painful martyrdoms of Peter, the people listed in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, the deaths reported in the Voice of the Martyrs newsletters I receive, and others reported by missionary organizations. These are not mental/situational sufferings, they are violent, brutal deaths.

SLE

For me, one of the most inspirational series of events to take was the fact that all of the Apostles, except John (of Patmos), died horrible deaths of physical sufferings, separated, completely alone and, not one turned away from his faith and denied Jesus! Most know that Peter was crucified upside down....think about it!
 
"(Speaking to Peter,Jesus said)'I tell you the truth, when you were younger you dressed yourself and went where you wanted; but when you are old you will stretch out your hands, and someone will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go.' Jesus said this to indicate the kind of death by which Peter would glorify God." (Jn 21:18-19 NIV).

Your belief seems to ignore the physically painful martyrdoms of Peter, the people listed in Foxe's Book of Martyrs, the deaths reported in the Voice of the Martyrs newsletters I receive, and others reported by missionary organizations. These are not mental/situational sufferings, they are violent, brutal deaths.

SLE

I'm in a mood here Ed. So understand that and remember its not aimed at you.....
My answer. Its my belief. I'm talking about living and you're talking about dying. I'm saying we do not have to suffer physical suffering because Jesus took that for us. How Peter or Steven or any of the others died is not my business. My business is to walk by the Word. How you walk is your business. Believe what you will. I'm not forcing you to believe anything. I'm sharing just as you are.

As I said...I'm :secret: and its not directed at you....
 
:shade: Hi All.

A few weeks ago a feller asked me to come back, I thought about it , you see I am not normal, most preachers think I am the devil reincarnate. But I talk to you just like God talks to me that makes me different .

Suffering eh?? Hard to understand isn't it ?

I used to ask God, look if you have all these powers why do you allow so much suffering, pain , hardship and wars. If it were me I would just snap my fingers and poof there would be no wars, no guns, and in their place would be agriculture for the starving, new energy factories to improve the world, and I would fire all government officials and put in their place anyone, even those in prison, surely they will do a better job.
A little humor there God has a sense of humor, if you did not know.

It can really cause a lot of mis-understanding , someone dies in a car crash and it is said it was Gods will. That child you speak of dies in the house fire, the minister means well it is his job to comfort you so he say it is Gods will. He really does not know what to say so he says that. He means well. Just does not understand. It is not Gods will that any suffer or die, that we brought upon ourselves.

So my most important wisdom for the day is: God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health. A child to young to understand, who dies is actually blessed by grace and saved and will not fall. Think about that one for a bit. I am speaking of a child now, not a ten year old street tuff who will kill you for one dollar but just a innocent child. They are saved and will not have the chance to fall.

Our wisest thoughts are total ignorance to God, but I will try.

God gives all the freedom of choice, all things are by each individuals choice. Sometimes there are consequences from those choices. Like driving drunk and killing another, or not checking safety things and a home catches on fire and a child or even the entire family dies. Sometimes we just do not know, the results of what we do. But it is all freedom of choice. Natural disasters, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes may or may not be allowed, but the laws of physics were created by God, and I cannot believe any good person caught up in that will not gain a new life. It is man who corrupts things and says other wise. And uses this to create discontent and unbelief. And if you live on a volcano do you not think one day it will blow up? Whose choice is that. You can always move.

It is not all my choice, it is the worlds choice, do you understand this??, I am trying hard, to convey this. I Kit do not chose to go to war, but my fellow humans have chosen this, so I am caught up in it, I will be witness to the tragic things of it all. I can wish it to go away, but sin is loose and all I can do is ask gently that God holds all who fall in his hands. I Kit would melt all their weapons and make them behave. Well God wishes all to behave too, but they have to do it by choice.

Everything bad is a result of sin. It is very hard to understand until God talks to you one on one about it. How he will do so he will chose. At the right time, when you are ready to understand.

All you can do is if you see someone suffering is not lie, and not say it is Gods will, as it is not. Just be nice and comfort them but avoid some things. There is much to learn about the bible and the suffering in it and how God actually is and how man has put his own customs and history into it all and blamed it on God. This subject is only a hint, and I will one day address in a post of my own.

Just be aware God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health, some things may be allowed to gain what you should gain. Some things do happen that are very hard to comprehend, and if you listen to other people you never will you have to go ask God.

There is a small fuss on this post already, does not take long we are human eh? But suffering physical hardship or a disease or a deformed limb or what it may be, is all a result of mans sin, over the ages of time things deteriorate. And if a person in a wheel chair does still give honor to God, it brings him joy. It is witness to the world that something has to be there what am I missing. What would give this person such faith when I am mad just cause I had the flue. Just between me and you even if that person in the wheel chair does not honor God, becomes bitter and resentful, will one day still be held in Gods hands. You may not see it at the time, you may never see it but one day it will be so.

Sin, will take all these things, put them in front of you and cause you to doubt. It will be so until you simply ask God to speak to you through his word. He will do so, and more, he will cause your mind to think on things, and understand.

I hope I struggled through that one and said something that makes sense.

Kit
 
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:shade: Hi All.

A few weeks ago a feller asked me to come back, I thought about it , you see I am not normal, most preachers think I am the devil reincarnate. But I talk to you just like God talks to me that makes me different .

Suffering eh?? Hard to understand isn't it ?

I used to ask God, look if you have all these powers why do you allow so much suffering, pain , hardship and wars. If it were me I would just snap my fingers and poof there would be no wars, no guns, and in their place would be agriculture for the starving, new energy factories to improve the world, and I would fire all government officials and put in their place anyone, even those in prison, surely they will do a better job.
A little humor there God has a sense of humor, if you did not know.

It can really cause a lot of mis-understanding , someone dies in a car crash and it is said it was Gods will. That child you speak of dies in the house fire, the minister means well it is his job to comfort you so he say it is Gods will. He really does not know what to say so he says that. He means well. Just does not understand. It is not Gods will that any suffer or die, that we brought upon ourselves.

So my most important wisdom for the day is: God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health. A child to young to understand, who dies is actually blessed by grace and saved and will not fall. Think about that one for a bit. I am speaking of a child now, not a ten year old street tuff who will kill you for one dollar but just a innocent child. They are saved and will not have the chance to fall.

Our wisest thoughts are total ignorance to God, but I will try.

God gives all the freedom of choice, all things are by each individuals choice. Sometimes there are consequences from those choices. Like driving drunk and killing another, or not checking safety things and a home catches on fire and a child or even the entire family dies. Sometimes we just do not know, the results of what we do. But it is all freedom of choice. Natural disasters, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes may or may not be allowed, but the laws of physics were created by God, and I cannot believe any good person caught up in that will not gain a new life. It is man who corrupts things and says other wise. And uses this to create discontent and unbelief. And if you live on a volcano do you not think one day it will blow up? Whose choice is that. You can always move.

It is not all my choice, it is the worlds choice, do you understand this??, I am trying hard, to convey this. I Kit do not chose to go to war, but my fellow humans have chosen this, so I am caught up in it, I will be witness to the tragic things of it all. I can wish it to go away, but sin is loose and all I can do is ask gently that God holds all who fall in his hands. I Kit would melt all their weapons and make them behave. Well God wishes all to behave too, but they have to do it by choice.

Everything bad is a result of sin. It is very hard to understand until God talks to you one on one about it. How he will do so he will chose. At the right time, when you are ready to understand.

All you can do is if you see someone suffering is not lie, and not say it is Gods will, as it is not. Just be nice and comfort them but avoid some things. There is much to learn about the bible and the suffering in it and how God actually is and how man has put his own customs and history into it all and blamed it on God. This subject is only a hint, and I will one day address in a post of my own.

Just be aware God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health, some things may be allowed to gain what you should gain. Some things do happen that are very hard to comprehend, and if you listen to other people you never will you have to go ask God.

There is a small fuss on this post already, does not take long we are human eh? But suffering physical hardship or a disease or a deformed limb or what it may be, is all a result of mans sin, over the ages of time things deteriorate. And if a person in a wheel chair does still give honor to God, it brings him joy. It is witness to the world that something has to be there what am I missing. What would give this person such faith when I am mad just cause I had the flue. Just between me and you even if that person in the wheel chair does not honor God, becomes bitter and resentful, will one day still be held in Gods hands. You may not see it at the time, you may never see it but one day it will be so.

Sin, will take all these things, put them in front of you and cause you to doubt. It will be so until you simply ask God to speak to you through his word. He will do so, and more, he will cause your mind to think on things, and understand.

I hope I struggled through that one and said something that makes sense.

Kit
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Hi All.

A few weeks ago a feller asked me to come back, I thought about it , you see I am not normal, most preachers think I am the devil reincarnate. But I talk to you just like God talks to me that makes me different .

Suffering eh?? Hard to understand isn't it ?

I used to ask God, look if you have all these powers why do you allow so much suffering, pain , hardship and wars. If it were me I would just snap my fingers and poof there would be no wars, no guns, and in their place would be agriculture for the starving, new energy factories to improve the world, and I would fire all government officials and put in their place anyone, even those in prison, surely they will do a better job.
A little humor there God has a sense of humor, if you did not know.

It can really cause a lot of mis-understanding , someone dies in a car crash and it is said it was Gods will. That child you speak of dies in the house fire, the minister means well it is his job to comfort you so he say it is Gods will. He really does not know what to say so he says that. He means well. Just does not understand. It is not Gods will that any suffer or die, that we brought upon ourselves.

So my most important wisdom for the day is: God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health. A child to young to understand, who dies is actually blessed by grace and saved and will not fall. Think about that one for a bit. I am speaking of a child now, not a ten year old street tuff who will kill you for one dollar but just a innocent child. They are saved and will not have the chance to fall.

Our wisest thoughts are total ignorance to God, but I will try.

God gives all the freedom of choice, all things are by each individuals choice. Sometimes there are consequences from those choices. Like driving drunk and killing another, or not checking safety things and a home catches on fire and a child or even the entire family dies. Sometimes we just do not know, the results of what we do. But it is all freedom of choice. Natural disasters, floods, volcanoes, earthquakes may or may not be allowed, but the laws of physics were created by God, and I cannot believe any good person caught up in that will not gain a new life. It is man who corrupts things and says other wise. And uses this to create discontent and unbelief.

It is not all my choice, it is the worlds choice, do you understand this??, I am trying hard, to convey this. I Kit do not chose to go to war, but my fellow humans have chosen this, so I am caught up in it, I will be witness to the tragic things of it all. I can wish it to go away, but sin is loose and all I can do is ask gently that God holds all who fall in his hands. I Kit would melt all their weapons and make them behave. Well God wishes all to behave too, but they have to do it by choice.

Everything bad is a result of sin. It is very hard to understand until God talks to you one on one about it. How he will do so he will chose. At the right time, when you are ready to understand.

All you can do is if you see someone suffering is not lie, and not say it is Gods will, as it is not. Just be nice and comfort them but avoid some things. There is much to learn about the bible and the suffering in it and how God actually is and how man has put his own customs and history into it all and blamed it on God. This subject is only a hint, and I will one day address in a post of my own.

Just be aware God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health, some things may be allowed to gain what you should gain. Some things do happen that are very hard to comprehend, and if you listen to other people you never will you have to go ask God.

There is a small fuss on this post already, does not take long we are human eh? But suffering physical hardship or a disease or a deformed limb or what it may be, is all a result of mans sin, over the ages of time things deteriorate. And if a person in a wheel chair does still give honor to God, it brings him joy. It is witness to the world that something has to be there what am I missing. What would give this person such faith when I am mad just cause I had the flue. Just between me and you even if that person in the wheel chair does not honor God, becomes bitter and resentful, will one day still be held in Gods hands. You may not see it at the time, you may never see it but one day it will be so.

Sin, will take all these things, put them in front of you and cause you to doubt. It will be so until you simply ask God to speak to you through his word. He will do so, and more, he will cause your mind to think on things, and understand.

I hope I struggled through that one and said something that makes sense.



Kit

You said.v"God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health." Where did you get that nonsense?
1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Why did Jesus waste His time healing diseases if He was not concerned with the physical?
Matthew 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

You said "They are saved and will not have the chance to fall." They will not have a chance to be an overcomer either. They were robbed of the chance to earn rewards in heaven.
Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Kit Most of what you said about free choice I can agree with. We do things and never see the end from the beginning. We never know the consequences of our actions till we see blessing or get butt bit. I agree that all the bad in the world is a result of sin.

Natural disasters? Who’s minding the store? If God owns the store, and placed you as the manager, who is calling the shots? Who is permitting or refusing? You. You’re the boss. And God did put you in charge.
Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

A hurricane is coming your way? Command it to dissipate, or turn aside. You’re the boss.

You said “Just be aware God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health, some things may be allowed to gain what you should gain.”

Show that in the Bible.

Kit People are at different points in their growth. Someone may be in a wheelchair giving glory to God. They may also believe its Gods will that they are in that chair. They can be very sincere, like you, and be sincerely Wrong.

When they will believe God for physical healing they WILL see it.
 
You said.v"God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health." Where did you get that nonsense?
1 Peter 2:24
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Why did Jesus waste His time healing diseases if He was not concerned with the physical?
Matthew 9:35
And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

You said "They are saved and will not have the chance to fall." They will not have a chance to be an overcomer either. They were robbed of the chance to earn rewards in heaven.
Revelation 2:7
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.


Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.


Revelation 2:26
And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:


Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.


Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Kit Most of what you said about free choice I can agree with. We do things and never see the end from the beginning. We never know the consequences of our actions till we see blessing or get butt bit. I agree that all the bad in the world is a result of sin.

Natural disasters? Who’s minding the store? If God owns the store, and placed you as the manager, who is calling the shots? Who is permitting or refusing? You. You’re the boss. And God did put you in charge.
Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

A hurricane is coming your way? Command it to dissipate, or turn aside. You’re the boss.

You said “Just be aware God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health, some things may be allowed to gain what you should gain.”

Show that in the Bible.

Kit People are at different points in their growth. Someone may be in a wheelchair giving glory to God. They may also believe its Gods will that they are in that chair. They can be very sincere, like you, and be sincerely Wrong.

When they will believe God for physical healing they WILL see it.

I make it a point to never argue with anyone. All are at a different state of understanding. Not all is learned overnight and there is no way me as a mere human can overcome a lifetime of another persons beliefs and that is not my intent.

I will simply state my perspective on things and leave it at that. I will tromp on some toes in the next couple weeks if I survive and do not get banned. But I can assure you many will start to think. And question and that is a good thing.

I do not quote little scriptures taken by themselves or together. When I speak it is from the understanding of the entire bible all put in a blender and mixed well.

Many things in there are mans way, mans culture and mans ideas at that time. A way of order and life for that time. It simply does not make them fact or the way of God. But the way of man. Many things are so terrible if you believe them of God you would walk away, but with time comes understanding that it was man.

One quick example: The wearing of a hat in church or not. Do you really think God really cares? Do you not think he just wants your companionship and to do as he would have you do wearing a hat or not. He most likely thinks that is really pretty silly.

I can apply this to many things. But lets start small, I do not want to start a too much all in one day.

Take Care

Kit
 
I make it a point to never argue with anyone. All are at a different state of understanding. Not all is learned overnight and there is no way me as a mere human can overcome a lifetime of another persons beliefs and that is not my intent.

I will simply state my perspective on things and leave it at that. I will tromp on some toes in the next couple weeks if I survive and do not get banned. But I can assure you many will start to think. And question and that is a good thing.

I do not quote little scriptures taken by themselves or together. When I speak it is from the understanding of the entire bible all put in a blender and mixed well.

Many things in there are mans way, mans culture and mans ideas at that time. A way of order and life for that time. It simply does not make them fact or the way of God. But the way of man. Many things are so terrible if you believe them of God you would walk away, but with time comes understanding that it was man.

One quick example: The wearing of a hat in church or not. Do you really think God really cares? Do you not think he just wants your companionship and to do as he would have you do wearing a hat or not. He most likely thinks that is really pretty silly.

I can apply this to many things. But lets start small, I do not want to start a too much all in one day.

Take Care

Kit

Oh My!! Kit the Word is the authority. The Word is the Truth. If you won't show where you got what you share I can only conclude that you got it from your own imagination, and that, a faulty one.
 
Oh My!! Kit the Word is the authority. The Word is the Truth. If you won't show where you got what you share I can only conclude that you got it from your own imagination, and that, a faulty one.

Good Morning:

Aye the word is the authority. I do have a great imagination. It does keep me well entertained. :coocoo: I told you I am not normal, I resist all things of modern religion. I prefer to let God guide me through his word, life and the lessons of it.

I do not profess to know the answers, I will stumble and wonder with the rest of you. But I do like to ask and talk to God about such things.

I see on this forum a great and serious problem and it does come from modern religion. And that is the taking of little snippets of scripture and turning them into solid fact with a particular meaning. This is so very wrong and so dangerous .

One must read the bible, read it again, and again, and ask God for help in understanding it. Not take small single verse scripture and take them for the complete story.

From life and the bible I do believe God is more concerned with your spiritual health than your physical health. Spiritual health is between you and God and makes your peace with all things. You physical health may be from many things, good or bad, you may be in a wheel chair form birth or an accident.

As for healing the sick and physical situations, it can and does happen but it is between that person and God, even I nor no man in this world has enough faith to heal another. We all doubt, we all try but we are not good enough. Just the same we are good enough , God loves us but we are not Binny Hinn (Giggle)

Now let me give you something to think about, my mind will flit around to show examples if I think it is significant. Go find in the bible where men hid beside the road and grabbed young virgin girls, carried them home and raped them and forced them to be wives. Then patted themselves on the back and said to self, we are blessed.

Do you think God really condones this? or do you think maybe man came up with it. Or one village is mad at another, and they go kill all men, women, children, animals, and all things that breath. Then have a party and say God tole us to do this and blesses us. Nonsense that is man and his religion. Not God. Tradition, culture and some priest of the time controlling them.

But I am getting too much away from the subject, so I simply say read, study and ask God himself. He is a great guy to talk to, and if you really do wish to know, he will let you know just enough to suit your particular life.

Some of the things I just spoke of create non believers, many things of modern religion push many away, the more intelligent a person is them more they will dis believe , until they go to God and find answers, then we are unshakable.

So yes God is very concerned with your spiritual health, he will heal you and help you in the way for you once you do reach the spiritual level needed for you, and that solution may not seem exactly proper to observers, but it is between you and God. You know if I was sick with Cancer or something, I would not fight it, why?? I love my life, I like it, but you know the world is pretty sick right now, so why would I not wish to just go to sleep and move on?? This is the difference between me and the one who clings to the world with modern religion.

Now you have much to think about.

Kit
 
You know if I was sick with Cancer or something, I would not fight it, why?? I love my life, I like it, but you know the world is pretty sick right now, so why would I not wish to just go to sleep and move on??

Kit, as I read this, I thought of the story of Lazarus in Jn 11, particularly Jesus' statement in Jn 11:4. With that in mind, don't you think that God might possibly want to use a disease in your body for His glory, i.e. to draw others to Him, and that it may not be His will for you to just give up and check out at that time?

SLE
 
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Kit, as I read this, I thought of the story of Lazarus in Jn 11, particularly Jesus' statement in Jn 11:4. With that in mind, don't you think that God might possibly want to use a disease in your body for His glory, i.e. to draw others to Him, and that it may not be His will for you to just give up and check out at that time?

SLE

Ed. How would cancer in somebody's body draw others to Jesus?

Isn't that like saying the smell of an outhouse attracts tourists?

Or a decaying carcass will draw people to a feast?
 
Kit, as I read this, I thought of the story of Lazarus in Jn 11, particularly Jesus' statement in Jn 11:4. With that in mind, don't you think that God might possibly want to use a disease in your body for His glory, i.e. to draw others to Him, and that it may not be His will for you to just give up and check out at that time?

SLE


Yes sir I do. A person who is sick and still loves God brings great honor to God. God has his own way that we sometimes just barely understand but we have to acknowledge we are his. With us he can and will do with us his way.

So yes I believe any person with a sickness or deformity that still gives honor to God shows others a way. Those who are strong and still smile and appreciate what they do have, actually do bring others to understanding .

I was trying to say that, but I do stumble around sometimes.
Now for me, if I were to develop Cancer or something , I would just accept it. At this point modern medicine can help in some , but in many cases it only prolongs the agony. So I would just tell God , ok so this is where we are, you can heal me or take me, or if you wish convince me to fight it. I would talk to God about that one on one, if it did happen. But I would not cling to this life just for life, I would miss many things, I am somewhat unsure of exactly what is to come, but I have enough trust in God to just go if that is for me.

Kit
 
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Ed. How would cancer in somebody's body draw others to Jesus?

Isn't that like saying the smell of an outhouse attracts tourists?

Or a decaying carcass will draw people to a feast?
"Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of Him but also to see Lazarus whom He had raised from the dead. So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, for on account of him many Jews were going over to Jesus and putting their faith in Him." (Jn 12:9-11 NIV)

SLE
 
"Meanwhile a large crowd of Jews found out that Jesus was there and came, not only because of Him but also to see Lazarus whom He had raised from the dead. So the chief priests made plans to kill Lazarus as well, for on account of him many Jews were going over to Jesus and putting their faith in Him." (Jn 12:9-11 NIV)

SLE

Ok I see what you said but ... what's your point? I'm sorry Ed I find this answer to be quite vague
 
If you're willing to think outside your theological box, you can figure it out for yourself.

SLE


Ok So the crowd came to see Jesus. And the man Jesus raised from the dead.
How does that relate to people coming to Jesus because you develop cancer? It doesn't. People are not attracted to crap in life. If anything they have a horrified fascination of it. This does not mean that they want it or the thing that brings it.
 
Ok So the crowd came to see Jesus. And the man Jesus raised from the dead.
How does that relate to people coming to Jesus because you develop cancer? It doesn't. People are not attracted to crap in life. If anything they have a horrified fascination of it. This does not mean that they want it or the thing that brings it.

Gee!! Well let me try. God is spiritual, he speaks to our soul or spirit if you will . He does not view sickness and cancer as example as people do.
You are correct that in the world some are very fearful and afraid of sickness and disease. Case in point would be the old leper colonies. People were so fearful they would not help or go close to them. So yes people are appalled by bad things. They do tend to draw away, and go the other direction. In the modern world it is aids.

Thing is that sick person, who knows God still honors God. Their spirit is well even though the physical body is not. And by their example and faith, they bring more to the faith. God talks to them too, and this is how a sick person honors God. This is how bad things are turned to good.

Fear because you are sick is not a good thing, that is the world of man and how we view things, we strive to explain it, to hash it and dice it till we are so very smart. Thing is we are really not so smart, as God tells us our wisest thoughts are really pretty silly.

So a person sick or with some terrible deformity or terminal disease may have had this afflicted on them so their spirit will grow and show others, or not, that is just my idea God did not tell me that. Why is a person sick, there are many reasons, but not the time or place right now.

In any event, the sick with their faith, bring others to the faith, and the physical body can be sick but the spirit is very well, and the physical body is just a shell, your soul is the important thing, and that is what moves on. It is always your spiritual health that is the most important, not your physical health.

Yes God can and does heal people with Cancer if he so makes that choice, but that is between that person and God. Between them. All this modern con man stuff is just that. So spiritual health is the important thing.

Boy I tried, I hope I did something so you can understand.

Kit
 
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