B.C. Johnson: Why does God allow suffering?

[spirit1st]

IF your born -again? You have the power with in you! ITS the HOLY GHOST!
Faith without words is DEAD! Meaning if we have faith? We must do a work or we can say An action !
When I broke my ankle !I ask the LORD , You going to heal me or Not! He said ? Are you going to walk in faith or not! So I had to do an action before my faith would work!
He already suffered for our healing! It up to us by faith to accept it! it takes some action for us to be healed!

The healings already been dome !Everything been done1 But we only see the results of these things by FAITh and FAith must have an action!

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
That works is the action we put forth!
that why she says


1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

it not the water that saves it the action we do

but obeying HIS word , which is the action!


Luk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.


I asked a lady who was going into the hospital if she believed JESUS COULD HEAL HER? She said NO .I said no use praying for your healing

Even Jesus could not heal All!

Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed

Done DEAL! We must accept What He already did! The just live by Faith!
Everything heavenly Must be received by Faith!

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
Everything WE DO ? Must be for His glory and honor! It cannot be selfish self centered reasons!
If we do all things for HIM! Then we do our best at everything .Then HE blesses us in HIS TIME!

Many want to do things they want! Our reasons must be because He wants it!
The I wants is No good reason!
It not about US .It is about HIM
Not being smart .But our reasons play a great part in answered prayer!

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Okay, if God gave us his power and said that we can have more if we want, then why can’t he grant me my deepest wish and prayer to be able to heal the sick?

If I had the power to do this, I would give away everything I own and walk the earth with nothing but the clothes on my back to heal others.

~JC

JC Do you have the faith for healing? If so...Plant it. Use it

All of the gifts are for all the saints all the time.

 

[JC4ME]

Spirit:

Perhaps you are more of a devoted Christian than I am, and if that is true (it probably is), then why has God not granted YOU the power that I so desire?

As you have stated, “Even Jesus couldn’t heal ALL”, I find that hard to believe. Jesus was God in the flesh, and he could have moved mountains, parted the seas, and healed anyone if he so desired… there are no limits when it comes to God (or am I wrong?)

~JC

P.S. - I don’t mean to be condescending, but overuse of exclamation points diminishes the impact of the messages you are trying to convey.


Hombre: I have asked God and Jesus for the opportunity, and as I said before, I am still waiting for an answer. I would be the first to agree that others might be more "qualified" (for lack of a better word) for this task, but any good human being... Christian or other... would be more than happy to do these things for their fellow man.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Spirit:

Perhaps you are more of a devoted Christian than I am, and if that is true (it probably is), then why has God not granted YOU the power that I so desire?

As you have stated, “Even Jesus couldn’t heal ALL”, I find that hard to believe. Jesus was God in the flesh, and he could have moved mountains, parted the seas, and healed anyone if he so desired… there are no limits when it comes to God (or am I wrong?)

~JC

P.S. - I don’t mean to be condescending, but overuse of exclamation points diminishes the impact of the messages you are trying to convey.


Hombre: I have asked God and Jesus for the opportunity, and as I said before, I am still waiting for an answer. I would be the first to agree that others might be more "qualified" (for lack of a better word) for this task, but any good human being... Christian or other... would be more than happy to do these things for their fellow man.

My friend I'm no better than you are in any way. God has given me this gift as He has given it to you.
Listen! If someone needs healing...lay hands on them and command healing. You don't want to say something like "God, if its your will.." The Word says its His will. So when you lay hands on someone command healing Cancer! Get out of this man!" That sort of thing. Still, as marvelous as it is...healing is not the gift to be sought most. When all these gifts are passed away. The only one that will remain.....is LOVE. Seek that one first.

You have the desire to serve in this capacity.... On the other hand the things we feel we are best suited to are not always the things God wants us to do.
Seek HIS will in this regard and find out what He wants you to do.
In the end you will be much happier and more fulfilled in the long run.

 

[spirit1st]

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
yea, the deep things of God.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Act 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,


2Ti 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Rom 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


Col 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:


Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
Mat 18:18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Act 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

2Co 13:14 The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen


1Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual

Our REASONS must be correct!

 

[spirit1st]

Isa 58:6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?


Isa 58:8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of the LORD shall be thy rereward

Isa 58:9 Then shalt thou call, and the LORD shall answer; thou shalt cry, and he shall say, Here I am.

Mar 2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

I found water only ,praying ,reading the bible and it appears to take about three full days!

 

[DeiSponsa]

I had been a member of the same church for 30 yrs. before God changed my life for ever.

I look back and I reflect that I knew of God and I knew of Jesus then but, now I know God and I know Jesus. Even though I only know "in-part" as Paul says, I know enough to have lost any doubt that He is all powerful and all loving and, his purpose is absolute!

A scripture that is quoted often here at TJ is 1 COR 5:17, one of my favorites because I live it. After my previous 30 yrs. above, I had a change of heart, I received, what I know was the Holy Spirit; I was "Born Again".

And with this change of heart, I thank and praise God that, though I may get mad or ask why, I now know in my heart that:

I WILL NEVER BLAME HIM FOR ANYTHING, NO MATTER HOW BAD!

You have echoed my thoughts perfectly! Beautiful

 

[RJ]

You have echoed my thoughts perfectly! Beautiful

It's not about me when I say this:

You have the Wisdom of Solomon and are wise beyond your years. God has given you an early start my friend; he must have special plans for you!

You know, Solomon prayed for wisdom and God gave it to him like no other. If you study about Solomon, you will find that though he was very intelligent, his smartness wasn't it; his understanding of God's ways was the true "Wisdom of Solomon".

 

[DeiSponsa]

It's not about me when I say this:

You have the Wisdom of Solomon and are wise beyond your years. God has given you an early start my friend; he must have special plans for you!

You know, Solomon prayed for wisdom and God gave it to him like no other. If you study about Solomon, you will find that though he was very intelligent, his smartness wasn't it; his understanding of God's ways was the true "Wisdom of Solomon".

Your words are greatly appreciated

I hope not to have an epic downfall like Solomon!

 

[The Robster]

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the B.C. Johnson philosophy. We were discussing it in my philosophy class today and it brought up an interesting topic. Its basically the battle between good and evil, and Johnson presents the common argument, if God is all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, why is there evil?

Johnson uses an interesting example:

"A house catches fire and a six month old baby is painfully burned to death. Could we possibly describe as "good" any person that had the power to save this child and yet refused to do so? God undoubtedly has this power and in many cases of this sort he has refused to help. Can we call God "good"? Are there adequate excuses for this behavior?"
​

I have developed my own critic of this argument and I think I have enough info about God to respond, but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Esp. those with a more mature relationship and understanding of God........ How would you respond to this?

Is this really a question about there being evil? Or is it more a question about why evil would seemingly happen in a situation like this? Why do these bad things happen to people? Why do bad things happen at all of there is an all loving and all powerful God? To answer these questions, we need to turn our thinking upside down because the wrong question is being asked. The question that needs to be asked is why are bad things not happening to EVERYONE? People and even Christians that don't serve the Lord, have this idea of entitlement, that they are entitled to a safe and happy life. And they are not.

Why are they entitled to a safe and happy life where they aren't subjected to evil or evil things? That right there is the fundamental perversion and distortion when we ask these kind of questions. Here's the truth. ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God and the WAGES of sin is DEATH. So when people say what did they ever do to deserve this? The answer is right in scripture. A whole lot. The wrong question about God is being asked. You should not be shocked when destruction occurs and when these evil kinds of things happen. People that blaspheme God and violate His commandments and all that He ever said in the Bible that was right and DESPISE His things...well why do they deserve a good life and one where they are immune from evil? How can you have a good life on this planet without the Creator? How can you have a good life without God's mercy and protection? We should be asking how have we made it this long without all being destroyed? Its because of the mercy of God.

If you look at the scriptures, you'll find that in other times when God's protection came off of people, its because they forsook Him. They worshipped idols. They broke His covenant. They ignored and rejected what He told them. And sadly, that has happened in many countries around the world and even in America. Millions are doing this on this planet. God's being removed from this place and that place and people keep saying they don't want Him, yet they want His protection. How does that work? We don't want you Jesus, STAY OUT OF OUR STUFF AND WHERE WERE YOU TO PROTECT US? I thank the Lord every day that He will do some things just for His church's sake, for His elect. But how many even realize that this is mercy? We see that same mercy where Abraham pleaded with God not to destroy Sodom and Gommorah for the sake of his nephew Lot, who lived there. He asked for mercy and God gave it to him and he was able to get his nephew out safe and sound. How many times does God give us mercy for those we pray for?

Millions of people on this planet and in America are worshipping idols. Are cursing the name of God and spitting on the name of Jesus and rejecting all the benefits and blessings He has to offer. You can't have it both ways. If you don't want the Lord's protection and you don't want to be redeemed from all the curses that came with the Curse of the Law then you shouldn't be expecting to be healed of diseases or to enjoy perfect health in this world or to be prosperous or to have genuine joy in this life and of course His divine protection around you and your family if you are not doing what He asks you to do. If you don't want to do the things God calls you to do in the Bible, then you can't expect your circumstances to change for the better and to enjoy His best. If you want to despise God and don't want to respect God and honor Him the way He instructs us in the Bible to do, then get ready to be despised and to have God lightly esteem what's important to you. This is not just a problem for people in unbelief, its also a big problem for many Christians. Many Christians are suffering just like those of the world because they refuse to do what God tells them to do and they despise His things and also don't walk in God's grace. So this is not just a problem among unbelievers but also for Christians.

 

[Jaareshiah]

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the B.C. Johnson philosophy. We were discussing it in my philosophy class today and it brought up an interesting topic. Its basically the battle between good and evil, and Johnson presents the common argument, if God is all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, why is there evil?

Johnson uses an interesting example:

"A house catches fire and a six month old baby is painfully burned to death. Could we possibly describe as "good" any person that had the power to save this child and yet refused to do so? God undoubtedly has this power and in many cases of this sort he has refused to help. Can we call God "good"? Are there adequate excuses for this behavior?"
​

I have developed my own critic of this argument and I think I have enough info about God to respond, but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Esp. those with a more mature relationship and understanding of God........ How would you respond to this?

The reason why God has permitted wickedness to exist until our day is related to events that happened early in human history, in the Garden of Eden. An incident that took place back then raised an important issue concerning the Creator himself—a question that could not be settled quickly or easily. Jehovah God created the first man and woman perfect and placed them in Paradise. They were endowed with a gift that distinguished them from animals—the gift of free will. (Genesis 1:28; 2:15, 19) As free moral agents, Adam and Eve could use their intellect to choose to love, serve, and obey their Creator. Or they could select a course of independence from God and deliberately disobey him.

To give Adam and Eve an opportunity to demonstrate their love for him, the true God placed one restriction upon them. He commanded Adam: “From every tree of the garden you may eat to satisfaction. But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.” (Genesis 2:16, 17) To remain in God’s favor, to their own benefit and that of their future family, Adam and Eve would have to refrain from eating the fruit of that one particular tree.

Using a serpent as his mouthpiece, Satan the Devil approached Eve and said: “Is it really so that God said you must not eat from every tree of the garden?” When Eve repeated God’s command, Satan said to her: “You positively will not die. For God knows that in the very day of your eating from it your eyes are bound to be opened and you are bound to be like God, knowing good and bad.” Consequently, the tree seemed so desirable to Eve that “she began taking of its fruit and eating it.” The account continues: “Afterward she gave some also to her husband when with her and he began eating it.” (Genesis 3:1-6) Both Adam and Eve thus misused their free will and sinned by disobeying God.

Jehovah had the power to destroy the three rebels—Satan, Adam, and Eve. God was unquestionably stronger than they were. But Satan did not question God’s power. Instead, he questioned Jehovah’s right to rule. The issue affected all creatures having free will. They needed to see that the gift of free will must be used properly—within the bounds of physical, moral, and spiritual guidelines from God. Otherwise, harm results, just as surely as injury will occur when a man jumps off the roof of a tall building without regard for the law of gravity. (Galatians 6:7, 8) All intelligent creatures could benefit from observing for themselves the bad fruitage of choosing a course of independence from God. This required time.

The fact that it requires time to settle some issues can be illustrated this way: Suppose the father of one family challenges the father of another to a contest that will prove which man is stronger. That issue could be decided quickly. Strength could be measured by lifting rocks. The father who lifted the heaviest rock would be the stronger man. But suppose the challenge involved which father truly loves his sons and daughters and whether they love him in return. Or what if the challenge raises the question of which father manages his family in the best way? Neither a display of strength nor mere words would be adequate. Sufficient time would have to pass, careful observation would be required, and right conclusions would have to be drawn in order for the issue to be settled.

Some 6,000 years have passed since Satan questioned God’s right to rule. What has history revealed? Consider two aspects of Satan’s allegation against God. Satan boldly told Eve: “You positively will not die.” (Genesis 3:4) By saying that Adam and Eve would not die if they partook of the forbidden fruit, Satan was in effect calling Jehovah a liar. A serious charge indeed ! If God were not truthful in this matter, how could he be trusted in anything else ? However, what has the elapsed time shown ?

Throughout the course of history, empires have come and gone. Every conceivable form of human government has been tried. Time and again, however, dreadful things have happened to the human family. “Man has dominated man to his injury,” a Bible writer wisely concluded some 3,000 years ago. (Ecclesiastes 8:9) “It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step,” wrote the prophet Jeremiah. (Jeremiah 10:23) Even scientific and technological achievements of recent years have not negated the truth of these statements. The passage of time has only proved these observations to be true.

The time allowed by God has proved Satan wrong on the issue of the rightfulness of Jehovah’s sovereignty. Jehovah God is the absolute Sovereign of the universe. He has the right to rule over his creation, and his way of ruling is the best. Acknowledging this fact, heavenly creatures who have intimately experienced life under God’s rule declare: “You are worthy, Jehovah, even our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they existed and were created.”(Revelation 4:11)

It is as the apostle Paul wrote under inspiration: "For the creation (mankind) was subjected to futility (over the course of 6000 years), not by its own will but through him that subjected it, on the basis of hope that the creation itself also will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God."(Rom 8:20, 21) Thus, God has allowed sufficient time to prove Satan's way of ruling through human governments a failure and that God's rulership is the only rightful rule for mankind.

(source of most of information - Sept 15, 2007 Watchtower)

 

[Iceman]

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the B.C. Johnson philosophy. We were discussing it in my philosophy class today and it brought up an interesting topic. Its basically the battle between good and evil, and Johnson presents the common argument, if God is all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, why is there evil?

Johnson uses an interesting example:

"A house catches fire and a six month old baby is painfully burned to death. Could we possibly describe as "good" any person that had the power to save this child and yet refused to do so? God undoubtedly has this power and in many cases of this sort he has refused to help. Can we call God "good"? Are there adequate excuses for this behavior?"
​

I have developed my own critic of this argument and I think I have enough info about God to respond, but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Esp. those with a more mature relationship and understanding of God........ How would you respond to this?

I think you'll find that the logic used by Johnson extends far further back to Epicurus, and is commonly called the Problem of Evil in modern philisophical and theological circles.

How I would respond to the basic premise "God is good, but evil exists, therefore there is no God" argument is that I argue that God has done something about Evil. That is Jesus. The Church here and now embodies God's mission to the impoverished, to the suffering, and to the downtrodden.

There are aspects to the arguement I tend not to go into great depth about. This includes Salvation History, Creationism, ect ect because most people aren't actually looking for such an indepth response. But there are plenty of great theological responses to the problem of evil.