B.C. Johnson: Why does God allow suffering?

[spirit1st]

Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Isa 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

WE CANNOT keep ASKING GOD to Do what HE already DID!
It must accept by FAITH!
The just live by FAITH!
He does not Force healing on us! He just has it so , All we need do is accept it!

Also I found it takes an act of Faith! Saying it over and over til we truly believe it or some action!

When I broke my ankle! I said LORD You going to heal this or Not?
He said ? You going to walk in Faith or Not!
I said YES LORD , not wanting to walk it hurt So bad! And it took three steps before I was healed!

It still looked bad ,but was Healed! took a few days for it too look healed!

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Gee!! Well let me try. God is spiritual, he speaks to our soul or spirit if you will . He does not view sickness and cancer as example as people do.
You are correct that in the world some are very fearful and afraid of sickness and disease. Case in point would be the old leper colonies. People were so fearful they would not help or go close to them. So yes people are appalled by bad things. They do tend to draw away, and go the other direction. In the modern world it is aids.

Thing is that sick person, who knows God still honors God. Their spirit is well even though the physical body is not. And by their example and faith, they bring more to the faith. God talks to them too, and this is how a sick person honors God. This is how bad things are turned to good.

Fear because you are sick is not a good thing, that is the world of man and how we view things, we strive to explain it, to hash it and dice it till we are so very smart. Thing is we are really not so smart, as God tells us our wisest thoughts are really pretty silly.

So a person sick or with some terrible deformity or terminal disease may have had this afflicted on them so their spirit will grow and show others, or not, that is just my idea God did not tell me that. Why is a person sick, there are many reasons, but not the time or place right now.

In any event, the sick with their faith, bring others to the faith, and the physical body can be sick but the spirit is very well, and the physical body is just a shell, your soul is the important thing, and that is what moves on. It is always your spiritual health that is the most important, not your physical health.

Yes God can and does heal people with Cancer if he so makes that choice, but that is between that person and God. Between them. All this modern con man stuff is just that. So spiritual health is the important thing.

Boy I tried, I hope I did something so you can understand.

Kit

All right. Correct me if I misunderstood you again ok? What I understand you to say is; Sickness comes on people to teach them something, and to draw them closer to God? Is that essentially it?

As for myself, I would stay clear of ANYONE who put sickness on me.
As for putting it on me to teach me something? He'd better be really clear about what I'm to learn before I would even consider accepting such a thing.

Read what Spirit1st wrote. Post#61
By Jesus stripes we were healed, and we have no business being sick. We have no business dying before we are finished our doing here on Earth.

 

[spirit1st]

Sickness is in the world! It all around us! We are in a defiled world !A world full of sickness and death ! It every where!
But GODS provided a way to keep from being sick or for healing if we get sick!
of course we Must Accept by FAITH , What HE already did!
Will All be healed ? Of course not!
But there is a time coming ,When HE will be here with us ruling the world , Then I doubt any will be sick!
But even then people in these type bodies will did! So it possible sickness will still take Some?


Because healing is by Faith and Faith works by LOVE!
We will Not get anything from JESUS CHRIST , But by FAITH!

Not saying we He could not do these works and more ! But there are the guide lines HE set Up for US!

The JUST , which I count as those Born -Again , Live BY FAITH!

Faith too ME is believing GODS living Words above All we see with our EYES!
We All live in the LIGHT we have !None greater or less!


God does not want us looking Up to others or Down on others!
We Love all mankind , But we ,might not like the evil they Do or serve!

Some do evil because they love it ! Others do it because they do not understand?

Some think they can serve two masters!
We Never live 100% for ourselves!

Hopefully we Want Truth in our lives more than we want the things of this world?

 

[Kit Carson]

All right. Correct me if I misunderstood you again ok? What I understand you to say is; Sickness comes on people to teach them something, and to draw them closer to God? Is that essentially it?

As for myself, I would stay clear of ANYONE who put sickness on me.
As for putting it on me to teach me something? He'd better be really clear about what I'm to learn before I would even consider accepting such a thing.

Read what Spirit1st wrote. Post#61
By Jesus stripes we were healed, and we have no business being sick. We have no business dying before we are finished our doing here on Earth.

No the internet discussion are hard to convey sometimes. I am sure God has let some get sick for his reasons, but no he does not run around making people sick to teach them something or to bring them to him.

But over the generations, sin, inbreeding and many things have contributed to sickness and deformity and if so afflicted you may develop a great faith from it and by showing this it gives those around you support and does draw them to believe and does bring honor to God when someone so afflicted shows great faith when a normal person scoffs.

We have no business being sick, well we all get sick from time to time and modern medicine has saved me a couple times, from a busted appendix to more serious situations, although the appendix was very serious and modern antibodies did the trick that time. I was like 9 years old.

As for being finished, and not having any business dying, you can die anytime, there is no rhyme or reason sometimes, a car accident, some crazy just shoots you or whatever. No one knows that day.

I guess what I am trying to say is those who are sick, and do honor God and when other people see this, it strengthens them, and themselves and brings honor to God as they do this while the guy who is not sick makes fun and scoffs. But be sure it will make him think about things, and may just be what turns his way of thinking.

It is hard to explain , so go read the bible, the whole thing, not just a tiny part of it, read the book of Mathew and understand it. You will come to understand when the sick have great faith they bring honor and glory to God just by their faith. But you have to read it not just take one little verse out of the whole thing.

Kit

 

[El Hombre viejo]

No the internet discussion are hard to convey sometimes. I am sure God has let some get sick for his reasons, but no he does not run around making people sick to teach them something or to bring them to him.

But over the generations, sin, inbreeding and many things have contributed to sickness and deformity and if so afflicted you may develop a great faith from it and by showing this it gives those around you support and does draw them to believe and does bring honor to God when someone so afflicted shows great faith when a normal person scoffs.

We have no business being sick, well we all get sick from time to time and modern medicine has saved me a couple times, from a busted appendix to more serious situations, although the appendix was very serious and modern antibodies did the trick that time. I was like 9 years old.

As for being finished, and not having any business dying, you can die anytime, there is no rhyme or reason sometimes, a car accident, some crazy just shoots you or whatever. No one knows that day.

I guess what I am trying to say is those who are sick, and do honor God and when other people see this, it strengthens them, and themselves and brings honor to God as they do this while the guy who is not sick makes fun and scoffs. But be sure it will make him think about things, and may just be what turns his way of thinking.

It is hard to explain , so go read the bible, the whole thing, not just a tiny part of it, read the book of Mathew and understand it. You will come to understand when the sick have great faith they bring honor and glory to God just by their faith. But you have to read it not just take one little verse out of the whole thing.

Kit

Ok I'll accept what you said as you beliefs and respect that but for one exception.

You said "We have no business being sick, well we all get sick from time to time ..."

Not so! 1 Pete 2:24 By Jesus' stripes we were healed. Means I am the healed, and nothing the enemy does can make me accept sickness, disease or any other physical impairment. I'm in charge, not Satan.

Oh by the way...I've been to Lexington SC and I didn't see you...Are you sure you're from there?

 

[Kit Carson]

Ok I'll accept what you said as you beliefs and respect that but for one exception.

You said "We have no business being sick, well we all get sick from time to time ..."

Not so! 1 Pete 2:24 By Jesus' stripes we were healed. Means I am the healed, and nothing the enemy does can make me accept sickness, disease or any other physical impairment. I'm in charge, not Satan.

Oh by the way...I've been to Lexington SC and I didn't see you...Are you sure you're from there?

Yep I am from and live in Lexington South Carolina. You most likely did not see me as I was under a house fixing a pipe. As for that exception, well, go read Mathew, how the Gentile, me, I , us, all of us are healed by faith. There is a lot to understand, it takes a bit of time and prayer to understand. I learn that daily myself. I am just sure I know exactly what is meant and find out I am not so smart after all. That it was my idea, my mind and I really did not understand.

Kit

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Yep I am from and live in Lexington South Carolina. You most likely did not see me as I was under a house fixing a pipe. As for that exception, well, go read Mathew, how the Gentile, me, I , us, all of us are healed by faith. There is a lot to understand, it takes a bit of time and prayer to understand. I learn that daily myself. I am just sure I know exactly what is meant and find out I am not so smart after all. That it was my idea, my mind and I really did not understand.

Kit

That explains why I didn't see you. LOL
As for healing. When I was first saved, we moved to Washington state. At the first church we found a woman came to me at the Wednesday night meeting. She said "Lay hands on me. I have diabetes and I need healing. You have the gift of healing." I was totally lost at that. I had no idea what she was talking about. She said "Just put your hand on my forehead and ask God to heal me." LOL My thinking was 'She is a Christian and must know what she's talking about.' So I did as she told me. I put my hand on her forehead and said "God please heal this woman. Thank you" and promptly forgot about it. A week later I remembered the thing and I felt bad because I had forgotten about it. How can a person have faith if he forgets about the thing? Right? Wrong! Simply give the situation to your Father and forget it.
Well it turned out that she WAS healed. The pastor came to me and told me he had a growth behind his kneecap and didn't want to do the surgery that was scheduled for the following week. I laid hands on him and the doctor could not find any growth in the pre op xray.

My point is.... We are healed by faith. Receive it, receive means 'take'.

I could go on and on and on and on.... but the point is Healing is ours NOW! Its already been done and given to us if we will receive it.

 

[kyval82]

Hello!

That has always been such a BIG BIG question among people, both christain and non-christains. I think most of us have wondered the same thing before.

But, in the Bible, The Word of God says that "it rains on the just and the unjust". I believe that is the only way i can make an understanding as to why good things happen to bad people, and why bad things happen to good people. God does have all power, I believe that everthing has a purpose and reason, but only the LORD truly knows why.

I know that our God is loving and wants only good for us. Sometimes what we see as bad, terrible or unbarable, may work out to the good of the Lord.

Much love in Christ

 

[SpiritLedEd]

(Responding to KitCarson) What I understand you to say is; Sickness comes on people to teach them something, and to draw them closer to God? Is that essentially it?

God can and does use existing sickness/death situations to draw people to Himself, to salvation. The stories of the resurrection of Lazarus (See John 11:42-45;12:10-11) and Aeneas and Dorcas (See Acts 9:32-43)back this up pretty clearly in my opinion. You're the one talking about God putting sickness on people, not us. There's a huge difference between God using pre-existing situations for His glory and causing those situations.

SLE

 

[El Hombre viejo]

God can and does use existing sickness/death situations to draw people to Himself, to salvation. The stories of the resurrection of Lazarus (See John 11:42-45;12:10-11) and Aeneas and Dorcas (See Acts 9:32-43)back this up pretty clearly in my opinion. You're the one talking about God putting sickness on people, not us. There's a huge difference between God using pre-existing situations for His glory and causing those situations.

SLE

uh....ok :wink:

 

[bychristalone]

We don't have our resurrection bodies yet.

2 Timothy 4:20 Erastus stayed in Corinth, but Trophimus I have left in Miletus sick.

Paul doesn't say Trophimus is in sin, sickness is part of still being in the flesh. Of course God can and does heal as He sees fit, sometimes now and perfectly in the resurrection. Many people who believe God wants everyone to be healed in this life have died... Isn't death the ultimate result of living in corruptible bodies now?

John 9:1-5 Now as Jesus passed by, He saw a man who was blind from birth. And His disciples asked Him, saying, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"

Jesus answered, "Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but that the works of God should be revealed in him. I must work the works of Him who sent Me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can work. As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world."

Jesus heals in His own perfect time or His own perfect reason.

 

[Faith4Bride]

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the B.C. Johnson philosophy. We were discussing it in my philosophy class today and it brought up an interesting topic. Its basically the battle between good and evil, and Johnson presents the common argument, if God is all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, why is there evil?

Johnson uses an interesting example:

"A house catches fire and a six month old baby is painfully burned to death. Could we possibly describe as "good" any person that had the power to save this child and yet refused to do so? God undoubtedly has this power and in many cases of this sort he has refused to help. Can we call God "good"? Are there adequate excuses for this behavior?"
​

I have developed my own critic of this argument and I think I have enough info about God to respond, but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Esp. those with a more mature relationship and understanding of God........ How would you respond to this?

I think the real issue and problem here is that you are in a philosophy class. I say this because as a christian now you are in a problem situation.

philosophy means the love of mens wisdom and God is against philosophy and calls it vain.

The truth of the answer to this question, cannot be bore and grasped by those who are not believers and even for many believers they do not want to know the truth of the purpose for suffering.

How can you answer a class that is against God- pearls of God which you are not to give to them? You cannot

 

[The Templar]

Nothing wrong with philosophy as long as you can balance it out with God's wisdom. Things are not as complicated as they seem as long as you use common sense so use it. Just because you are following men's wisdom doesn't necessarily mean you aren't with God. I mean I'm studying Ancient Roman history and much of their ethics and beliefs are what God wants from us, and the Romans were pagans. Heck, they built an empire without God's help.

 

[Faith4Bride]

Nothing wrong with philosophy as long as you can balance it out with God's wisdom. Things are not as complicated as they seem as long as you use common sense so use it. Just because you are following men's wisdom doesn't necessarily mean you aren't with God. I mean I'm studying Ancient Roman history and much of their ethics and beliefs are what God wants from us, and the Romans were pagans. Heck, they built an empire without God's help.

I am sorry to say that this is just not so templar. Gods thoughts are not our thoughts. " common sence" is opposed to Gods way because it is " common" the ways of God are not common and we are not to be or think common we are a peculiar people that should have the mind of Christ.

The ways of men and the ways of flesh and of this world are not Gods ways.

And the romans didnt build rome without God's help the bible declares that it is God alone who sets up kingdoms and tares them down, who sets up kings and tares them down. The bible even says that the kings heart is in the Lords hand to move it withsoever he wills.

 

[JC4ME]

I don't know if anyone here is familiar with the B.C. Johnson philosophy. We were discussing it in my philosophy class today and it brought up an interesting topic. Its basically the battle between good and evil, and Johnson presents the common argument, if God is all-powerful, all-loving, and all-knowing, why is there evil?

Johnson uses an interesting example:

"A house catches fire and a six month old baby is painfully burned to death. Could we possibly describe as "good" any person that had the power to save this child and yet refused to do so? God undoubtedly has this power and in many cases of this sort he has refused to help. Can we call God "good"? Are there adequate excuses for this behavior?"
​

I have developed my own critic of this argument and I think I have enough info about God to respond, but I was wondering what everyone else thought. Esp. those with a more mature relationship and understanding of God........ How would you respond to this?

In regards to a house burning down and killing people inside, God can not be blamed for that. Houses are built by people, and we all make mistakes. It could have been faulty wiring, a gas leak, arson, etc.

Just my opinion- JC

 

[El Hombre viejo]

In regards to a house burning down and killing people inside, God can not be blamed for that. Houses are built by people, and we all make mistakes. It could have been faulty wiring, a gas leak, arson, etc.

Just my opinion- JC

As I said before We Christians are in charge in the Earth.

Genesis 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

Psalm 115:16
16 The heaven, even the heavens, are the LORD's: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.



Romans 5:17 (King James Version)

17For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Revelation 1:6 (King James Version)

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

What do kings do? They rule. We are to rule in the Earth.
Yes the Earth is the Lords and He is sovereign. But in the Earth He is sovereign in the spirit realm. He has give us control. Kind of like I own the store and I've put you in as manager.

So if there are wars, famines, earthquakes whatever Its because Christians allow it.

 

[spirit1st]

NOT sure! But I think, God gave the world to man to run it as he wanted too! He lets mankind do pretty much whatever , they want too!
If he wants to build homes that are messed up ? He allows it!

my dad died when i was 4years old! He left me with 4 sisters and my mom! They did not like me being around! They even moved away once while i was at school! they did lots of stuff to keep me away! I used too curse God . I thought it was all his fault!
but Now I Do Not!
I made the decision to be rebellious !
Most all the mistakes in my life time was mine or others who made them for me!
I see now, GOD was always trying to protect me! I was not listening or doing right my self! Only asking HIM for help when it really looked bad!

A baby does not seek help , hot having knowledge or understanding

Still the baby goes to heaven automatically . Does GOD see its future and the suffering it going to suffer and take it home!
Does it suffer a low death?
I doubt it , having known the New REST!
Isa 57:1 The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come.

LOTS I do not fully understand! This I know? GOD is LOVE and LOVE gives mercy!
I can really only speak for my own life! He was always there for me! I was NOT ALWAYS here for Him!


1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth


This World is full of Evil ! Is it HIS fault or our fault ?
It is our fault!
Do we expect Him to take control of it 100% now or should we wait and see how he deals us it All?
Well He has told us the evil will end soon! But first HIS wrath must come upon it!
We know He has feelings , He wept!
Why did HE wept instead of changing it all?
Well thing , He is doing a eternal work here! Allowing these evil vile things to take place that HE HATES!
To gain A ETERNAL Family ! And does want to be able to bless those willing to help HIM do that!

Why does He just make more beings and dump these who are defiled by sin?
One thing, He wants us tested and tried .Proving to Himself and All these angels and other heavenly beings ,. We can overcome Sin ! And will never sin again. Once the devil and the evil people are done away with !
1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

I just know, That HIS living words have worked in my life time!

It very hard for us to understand All these things taking place on the earth! He pretty much told us what will take place!
Still , We are not very prepared when they take place!
but i find if we know GODS Word good? then we can get help or stand on His Word and see the miracle!
Been though LOTS , much more than most I guess!
typed 14 pages of miracles about 6 years ago had lots more since! I do expect miracles in my life all the time! Still when things appear to take too long! I wonder WHY?
I do not think I lose faith , in HIM doing a miracle! I just wonder why , Do i have to suffer again and again?
More at peace now , even when these things take place!
I hear Him in my mind a lot or at least i hear Patience!
So I wait!
I think it is getting easier as I grow older Knowing one day soon. I die , by the catching away or being killed or just old age?I have mixed feelings about it! Safe no suffering with my Lord instantly there!
Not able to help anyone again?
Or here helping where i can as long as I can!
OI know none of us Ever get this great chance again!
WE should be Very happy we can help others and suffer for His SAKE!

I pray about every day for the Christians in Muslim nations and there families!
I have been put in like a corner where I have had to trust in HIM for everything or too pray for my needs ?
I have enough to live ok .might never have a new car or anything like that! But I do not mind!
I do not put much value on having things!
They Do not mean a great deal to me!
I do not drive my car as much as i might like too !It got lots of miles on it , before i got it ! but that is ok !
Not sure my post helps anyone? GOD knows!
LOVE you all and hope you know HIM well! gary

 

[JC4ME]

As I said before We Christians are in charge in the Earth...... So if there are wars, famines, earthquakes whatever Its because Christians allow it.

I agree with your statement about wars, but famine (in some cases) and earthquakes (in any case) are not the fault of man or Christians. We have no control over these things... only God does.

God created the earth, and any major catastrophies (such as earthquakes) are not because of us. Who here would allow a tsunami to kill 200,000 people? Nobody... not one of us.

As human beings / Christians, we have compassion for our fellow man, and I often struggle with the thought that God could allow such events to happen. Perhaps it's part of his master plan, but it is beyond my scope of comprehension because I am not God.

~JC

 

[spirit1st]

Rom 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
Meaning ?It all dying!

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I know we do have power over things here!
Living it is a different thing!
I have done lots of miracles by His MIGHTY NAME!

God gave us a part of His power and says we can have more if we want!

 

[JC4ME]

I know we do have power over things here!
Living it is a different thing!
I have done lots of miracles by His MIGHTY NAME!

God gave us a part of His power and says we can have more if we want!

Okay, if God gave us his power and said that we can have more if we want, then why can’t he grant me my deepest wish and prayer to be able to heal the sick?

If I had the power to do this, I would give away everything I own and walk the earth with nothing but the clothes on my back to heal others.

~JC