Baptism - Here we go again

[Garee]

Peter is writing exactly what he means - water baptism is a requirement for believing the gospel and of salvation.
He is tutoring us with the example of the safe passage of Noah and family through the waters of the great flood.
Also Moses and the children of Israel were also saved by passing through the waters of the Red Sea.
And for us it is submergence in the waters of baptism and rising up out of water.
God is really into water and uses it to wash away sins and gives us living water to overcome sin.

How does water cause a person to believe. By getting a person wet?


Does belief just a fall from the sky or does it come through the written doctrines of God. After of the word, the baptism of the Holy Spirt . No H 02 required.

What's the purpose of h20?

 

[Reba1]

1 John 1:7; "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." ...

 

[Rhema]

respondens autem Iesus dixit ei sine modo sic enim decet nos implere omnem iustitiam tunc dimisit eum

Gesundheit.
(You need me translate that too?)

So you're saying you don't know why because Jesus never told you why.
(Bit of a cop out.)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

My understanding, you may put it another way brother.

Truly no disrespect intended, but that sounds a bit contrived.

I've heard others say it was to "transfer" authority from John to Jesus, but John continued to baptize after this. ( I thought that idea a bit contrived too.)

John's baptism therefore was to provide an occasion for 'the Jewish people' to confess their sins and repent and get right with God.

Didn't they do that by killing animals?

A key verse to the Why question has to be Matthew 3:15, Jesus says, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness”

While I don't have the time or space to write the PhD thesis here, I recall the LXX uses the word mercy in certain places for the Aramaic kenutha. This would render - "to fulfill all mercy." Interesting. I'll have to dig into that later.

Thanks,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

yes, sorry, my bad, thank you for the correction.

Sorry to have gotten a bit prissy. (Bit of an occupational hazard.)

Especially if they were handy to catch up with and had the time to go through all the Latin and Greek.. and Hebrew and all that, I suppose? [which i thought would have been obvious from the reference to which i wrote what i did write?

Okay... well the syntax of that statement is a bit convoluted, so I'm left to wonder if you're talking about the post you made in Latin. However, if things were as bad as you seem to imply here, then why did Paul even write anything? Somebody somewhere had to be able to read. Certainly Jesus could, though somebody goofed up in Matthew 23:35.

i suppose if you could read, you could pop down to the local bookstore and buy a hardcopy, so long as the persecutors didn't catch you with it? I think you understand me? I could be wrong... i was once before.

I detect some attitude here. It's unwarranted and unnecessary. Obviously copies of copies of copies were distributed throughout the empire, and the proverbial "Roman persecutors" rather didn't care about book possession, but public practice. Christians weren't persecuted for being Christian, but for being atheists - they didn't render to Caesar the obeisance demanded by the Empire.

That was kind and thoughtful of the Pope and the Church.

Yes it was, wasn't it.

If not for them, how would you have any texts at all?

 

[Rhema]

I return to these details from the BDAG Lexicon and include more.....

Dear Lord What have I unleashed ???

 

[Brother-Paul]

Dear Lord What have I unleashed ???

Dear Lord, May your Spirit guide us as we search The Truth in your Word, with the of our hearts fully open. In Jesus Name we pray, Amen

 

[Garee]

Didn't they do that by killing animals?

Killing animals was also used as a ceremonial law . . .a shadow of the unseen eternal . Water baptism was used for different purpose. It was used to represent "water of the word" the doctrines of Gu God that fall like rain , the washing of the Holy Spirit the cleansing fire .

It s foundation was first used in the ceremonies when a person desired to become a priest . like Aarons two sons. Like all ceremonial laws they were for sign to the whole world. . . the preaching the gospel . Our Father drawing men towards his law of mercy.

Many of the outward Jews took it as a sign unto themselves glorying in their own flesh .And like Aaron two sons they as a team offered strange cleansing fire or un authorized additions ( perfume) as personal touch . . as if it confirmed to all who saw what that they did have the born again Spirt of Christ and men should venerate them. (A law of the fathers as commandments of men.)

Their flesh was consumed by the fire. . . the priestly garment untouched not a hint of smoke .

You could say a picture of one like the Son of man walking around in the cleansing fire alone unlike Dan three walking with our cleansing baptism of fire fire, Christ. .( Daniel 3:25 )

Water is a shadow of the washing and renewing daily work of God . The ceremony remains from the same foundation just a different kingdom of priest men and women from all the nations of the world . . Christians. sent from a foreign land as apostles for Christ, declaring his word, prophecy...

In that way we can plant the incorruptible seed of the word and water it with the doctrines of God that fall like rain. But the Spirt of the word must do its work or there is no new life.

1 Corinthians 3:6-7 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.

 

[Butch5]

The question has been asked in this thread, why did Jesus get baptized? I would submit that one reason was to receive the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38 KJV)

At Jesus' baptism we're told that after He came out of the water the Holy Spirit, as a dove, descended on Him.

But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (Matt. 3:15-16 NKJ)

 

[Waggles]

The question has been asked in this thread, why did Jesus get baptized? I would submit that one reason was to receive the Holy Spirit.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Gesundheit.
(You need me translate that too?)

well... i didn't sneeze but thank you for your kind thoughts... and may you be in good health.

So you're saying you don't know why because Jesus never told you why.
(Bit of a cop out.)

Forgive me please but i can not recall where i said that?
You appeared a little perplexed so i responded to that with a verse from Jerome, [as you had mentioned him and from what you have written, you give the impression as to be well versed in Latin, Greek, Hebrew and most probably a whole assortment of languages and scripts. Certainly, one needs to be quite scholarly to attempt such things as BDAG, to not only understand but check the references for not only verifying but to possibly gain any further snippets from them, unless one simple like to read the small amount of English explanation and accept the word of the editors? Much as we might read through Meyer's work? ]

Perhaps, rather than continuing this dialogue with me, you could, for the sake of others, pour forth that which you presently understand as to what the why is? Unless you would prefer to cop out ?

=============================================

TalkJesus is here for fellowship. TalkJesus is not a portal for outstripping others nor making them feel insignificant or constantly at another member's mercy. Sometimes we may not be aware of how we communicate and in our oblivion, stomp all over others. Please re-assure me that you would rather not do that.

If you would like to contribute productively, please do but please show a little consideration in how you do so.

Remember that head knowledge is useless without charity and not everyone is in your ball park or league.

=============================================


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

The question has been asked in this thread, why did Jesus get baptized? I would submit that one reason was to receive the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38 KJV)

At Jesus' baptism we're told that after He came out of the water the Holy Spirit, as a dove, descended on Him.

But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (Matt. 3:15-16 NKJ)

I would perhaps go a little 'deeper', Brother ....><>

 

[PloughBoy]

The Simplicity Of Christ> Simple, water baptism of John, is only for "identification" Is only an Outward sign, "That i have a change my mind" It is a sign of "REPENTANCE" I have change my mind, whatever i have ever believe in And now have chosen to follow "JESUS CHRIST". What ever i ever believe in before, I have chosen this "New Religion" and the out ward sign of my choice is, "water Baptism" I am following Jesus now! A Simple "outward" sign to all, I am following Jesus Now. No salvation in water, no salvation in words. water baptism in "The Name of JESUS" is a simple " outer identification" to all, "I have now decided to follow JESUS' into "The Regeneration". SIMPLE! and nothing more. A Baptism unto "a Change of MIND" [Repentance] {I have turn around] from the way i used to think..

The Peril of Not Progressing (Hebrews 6)
Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to "perfection", not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this we will do if God permits.

Many are Still Roaming around in "The Wilderness after 40 years" going around in circles lead byThe 'Circe' a 30 plus day journey and still roaming around in "dead works" and doing it, in the name of "Jesus'.

"Child of GOD", Why call me "LORD, LORD" and do nothing I say

NASB 1995
“Why do you call Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?

Malachi 1:6
"A son honors his father, and a servant his master. But if I am a father, where is My honor? And if I am a master, where is your fear of Me?" says the LORD of Hosts to you priests who despise My name. "But you ask, 'How have we despised Your name?'
“But you ask, ‘How have we despised Your name?’ 7By presenting defiled food on My altar. But you ask, ‘How have we defiled You?’ By saying that the table of the LORD is contemptible.

You have called "The Holy" " unholy" "The Pure" "Impure" "The Right WAY" "The Wrong WAY", "Your way" "My WAY" "Your thoughts" "My Thoughts"

"If I AM your "Father" where is My Honor?

 

[Garee]

The question has been asked in this thread, why did Jesus get baptized? I would submit that one reason was to receive the Holy Spirit.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Acts 2:38 KJV)

At Jesus' baptism we're told that after He came out of the water the Holy Spirit, as a dove, descended on Him.

But Jesus answered and said to him, "Permit it to be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness." Then he allowed Him.
16 When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. (Matt. 3:15-16 NKJ)

I would offer Jesus was required by law as any believer having a desire to become part of the priesthood of believers. He was baptized at the beginning of his earthly ministry which began in the wilderness signified as the scape goat.(Mathew 4)

Jesus was also the fulfillment of Melchezedek and old testament theophany .Previous the priesthood required a male Levite, No female or gentile Priest as prophets sent with the gospel .. John the Baptist is the last Levi under the old order. Jesus from the tribe of Judah was used to represent the new kingdom of priest spoken of in Joel. Men and woman form all nations prophets sent out as apostles.

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

 

[PloughBoy]

I would offer Jesus was required by law as any believer having a desire to become part of the priesthood of believers. He was baptized at the beginning of his earthly ministry which began in the wilderness signified as the scape goat.(Mathew 4)

Jesus was also the fulfillment of Melchezedek and old testament theophany .Previous the priesthood required a male Levite, No female or gentile Priest as prophets sent with the gospel .. John the Baptist is the last Levi under the old order. Jesus from the tribe of Judah was used to represent the new kingdom of priest spoken of in Joel. Men and woman form all nations prophets sent out as apostles.

Acts 2:15-17 King James Version (KJV) For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

IT sounds to me you have not fully understand who Jesus is. Who do think created "The World", The Universe, The Angels, Who you think made "Heaven" and who do you think made "The Devil"! The Son oF GOD did! For The FATHER gave Him The Command to do so. "ALL Created things are Made by The SON! The very air you breathe is Created by The SON. GOD the FATHER created all things "Through the SON" "WHO do YOU Think "Created The LAW""

Where are these people coming from? " Jesus was required by law" ,........ "JESUS is The Creator of THE LAW" Where are these people coming from? "JESUS THE CHRIST" is [100% Deity and 100% Human] and Steps into HIS Deity and into HIS Humanity as "prescribe" per se HIS FATHER!

"A little Leaven in your mix contaminates The Whole lump"

The Baptism was not for HIM, But for us. "Follow me as I follow Christ" The movement of "Christ Jesus" was called "The WAY" and not Christianity or was The followers of Christ called "christians" by God. But they were called "The People of The WAY"! Jesus; "I AM The WAY" ! Paul said Follow me as I follow Christ! Jesus Christ got Baptize, follow HIM! He is "The WAY "!


PS That devil is slick, crafty "The Perfect Deceiver" And The first day the doors of "The Circe" was open he was the first one there! What every GOD has, HE will have his own duplicate. "he will be like the Most High" Appearing like an "Angel of Light"

Sorry I had to hit this one hard. Whatever GOD has, he has duplicates. And I don't mean "Satanic Temples" But The Deceiver Circe looks like "The Most High" and satanic visible temples is only a diversion

 

[Br. Bear]

@Rhema

Greetings,

Brother, i notice you have not been on here for a day of two and i want you to know [and to ask] that if i have offended you in any way, please forgive me, for that was not my intention.

to echo the Apostles words,

Beloved, I wish above all things that thou mayest prosper and be in health, even as thy soul prospereth.
3John 1:2


Bless you ....><>

 

[Garee]

IT sounds to me you have not fully understand who Jesus is. Who do think created "The World", The Universe, The Angels, Who you think made "Heaven" and who do you think made "The Devil"! The Son oF GOD did! For The FATHER gave Him The Command to do so. "ALL Created things are Made by The SON! The very air you breathe is Created by The SON. GOD the FATHER created all things "Through the SON" "WHO do YOU Think "Created The LAW""

Hi thanks for the reply. Our understanding or how we think we hear what the Spirit of Christ says to us it is different like finger prints in that way God has made us different

Things were made out of nothing that includes lifeless flesh and blood, dust and water . The Son of man is not the Creator .

The Son of God is the demonstrated power of the Lord to the whole world .The Spirit of Christ the anointed teacher worked in the Son of man Jesus to both reveal his will of faith “let there be” and empower it to please the father and "it was good '.

In that way our understanding comes from the father not the Son of man Jesus. a creation

1 John 5:20 [Full Chapter] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The difference between Son of man and Son of God must be made. Again satan would have mankind believe its all one in the same .(God man) as if God was a man .

I would think in that way the Son of God as revealed in Hebrews 7 remains without mother and father as our high priest eternally is speaking of Christ the anointed teacher master giving meaning to the word “Christ
Christ is us the same Christ in the Son of man, Jesus

In order to present the promised demonstration of the father and Son (Isaiah 53) working together alone .God sent His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh .The body of the Son of man Jesus needed to condemn sin as a violation against God . Coming as Melchzidek a theophany or vision would not fulfill the promise to Isaiah 53 the same gospel promise of Genesis 3:15 . The father striking the Son bruising the sons heel crushing the head of the father of lies

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

"A little Leaven in your mix contaminates The Whole lump"

leaven is also used to represent an increase. It is used in two ways. Below leaven is used in a parable it represents the gospel. The woman, the church taking the gospel through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.

Luke 13:20-22 King James Version (KJV)And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.

 

[Reba1]

leaven is also used to represent an increase. It is used in two ways. Below leaven is used in a parable it represents the gospel. The woman, the church taking the gospel through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.

Luke 13:20-22 King James Version (KJV)And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem

This is so often over looked .

 

[PloughBoy]

Hi thanks for the reply. Our understanding or how we think we hear what the Spirit of Christ says to us it is different like finger prints in that way God has made us different

Things were made out of nothing that includes lifeless flesh and blood, dust and water . The Son of man is not the Creator .

The Son of God is the demonstrated power of the Lord to the whole world .The Spirit of Christ the anointed teacher worked in the Son of man Jesus to both reveal his will of faith “let there be” and empower it to please the father and "it was good '.

In that way our understanding comes from the father not the Son of man Jesus. a creation

1 John 5:20 [Full Chapter] And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

The difference between Son of man and Son of God must be made. Again satan would have mankind believe its all one in the same .(God man) as if God was a man .

I would think in that way the Son of God as revealed in Hebrews 7 remains without mother and father as our high priest eternally is speaking of Christ the anointed teacher master giving meaning to the word “Christ
Christ is us the same Christ in the Son of man, Jesus

In order to present the promised demonstration of the father and Son (Isaiah 53) working together alone .God sent His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh .The body of the Son of man Jesus needed to condemn sin as a violation against God . Coming as Melchzidek a theophany or vision would not fulfill the promise to Isaiah 53 the same gospel promise of Genesis 3:15 . The father striking the Son bruising the sons heel crushing the head of the father of lies

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:




leaven is also used to represent an increase. It is used in two ways. Below leaven is used in a parable it represents the gospel. The woman, the church taking the gospel through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.

Luke 13:20-22 King James Version (KJV)And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God? It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem.

1. I am no liar about the statements about GOD. And GOD the FATHER, and HIS WORD is NO LIAR either! When you make a Statement like this, The TRUTH of GOD cannot be in you.
"The SON of GOD did not Create all Things That are CREATED" And please don't play me with words, for I am not the one! I don't play GOD! So please don't play me with "junk dog" jumbling of words, and "cheap" translations of "The Original Copied Manuscript" of The WORDS GOD has spoken.
I am not the one. If you feel like playing , go play with "Pliable" in the Kindergarten Corner.

2. You may fool others, but not me. Slipping in that dogmatic "Pig Slop" about who Jesus is and determining His character. As if HE is a "Subordinate" of ..........The FATHER and The SPIRIT of The LIVING GOD!

...........A. How can a piece of dirt, a corrupted creature called man, with a "Finite" mind understand What "GOD" is. FOR GOD is Not A Creature neither is ..................HIS SON For "GOD" and HIS SON" is "INCOMPREHENSIBLE" By a "Finite" mind Neither can a corrupted creature can explain "GOD The ...................FATHER'S BEING and His .EXISTENCE and HIS SON's BEING and HIS SON"S EXISTENCE. [ A Finite Mind trying to comprehend a being that is 100% human and 100% Deity] A BEING that at anytime can step in & out of HIS "DIVINITY INTO HUMANITY" any time HE PLEASES.

3. Just because your eyes see words and you are able to display print on the computer screen and know your "A B C's" and can read a Bible, Don't mean ...............nothing!
I am not ignorant of "The Scriptures" "LEAVEN goes BOTH WAYS" REALLY ...and you got the "SHORT End of The STICK" and have been found ................wanting.

.................. And i am being kind.

For over 44 years "I Don't play GOD" Since i was 26 years old.

New American Standard Bible
All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him not even one thing came into being that has come into being.

1 Corinthians 8:6
yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we exist. And there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we exist.

Colossians 1:16
For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.

John 1:10
He was in the world, and though the world was made through Him, the world did not recognize Him.

John 5:17-19
But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work…


PS. By the words you use and the way you think, no doubt, you are a "religious" person and you are a fun believer in a certain form of christianity and religious ways. But "Theology Proper" has no place in you.

don't try to pull wool over my eyes, like you know the "BOOK".

I am being kind. Because there is a reason, The Word of GOD says:

King James Bible
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
New King James Version
Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Have you Presented yourself to GOD concerning how you have STUDY, Throughout The YEARS and have Gotten HIS APPROVAL? HOW Diligent have you been for most of your life concerning digging out the TRUTH on YOUR Hands AND Knee's in Tears and STRONG Prayer's that HE would teach you and give you Understand of HIS Written TRUTH! Even in your DREAMS concerning HIS Written WORD!

And throughout your years has this "Psalm" been stamp on your heart and mind and have become a part of your being?

"Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.
With my whole heart have I sought thee: O let me not wander from thy commandments.
Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee.

Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes.
With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.

I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word."

And all of the REST! that is written in "THE BOOK" every DOT and TOTTLE, For The "WORD of GOD" is The Love of My LIFE! And there is nothing that is compared to its Existence. Not a women, a child or any other creature that exists!

Now that is me. I don't play GOD! And that is a "GIFT" from GOD and not of my own . Choosing.

"He chose me and I did not choose HIM!"

 

[Reba1]

Now @PloughBoy tell us what your really think ..