Beware of the "Rapture Ready" Forum

[chris meads]

I'm serprized with the verses in you profile such as to have boldness in the day of judement been one of you favorite verses and you seem to state you wont be here to have boldness in the day of judgement. I think you need to spend more time with Jesus and less time on the computer. cause do you realy think the wrath of god would hurt one of his own? and I think the daniel story of shadrack meshack and the other guy make my case for me!

 

[spirit1st]

You say the Great Tribulation is the Wrath of God.

The Bible speaks in Rev. 7:9 (ESV) of "a great multitude that no one could number, from every nation, from all tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands," in heaven. Then it explains that they were "the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." If this is the Wrath of God, why is He killing His own saints?

The fact is that these martyrs are being killed by the Beast, the Antichrist. Rev. 13:7 (ESV) "Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation," That is the Tribulation.

But the Wrath of God will be directed at unbelievers, the unsaved and unrepentant of earth. Not at believers.

John

Rev 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Maybe that your problem?
IT is clear it is HIS WRATH!
We have tribulation all our lives! But ITS not our FATHERS WRATH!

We have power over satan and all those who follow him!
The gates of hell cannot perv-ail over us!
WE see when the church came together in prayer with one mind ! God sent the angels to free them and fight for them!
the most powerful force on earth is not the devil and his gang ! But GODS kids!
1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Joh 17:16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

WE are NOT of this world! Our NATURAL HOME is NEW JERUSALEM!
WE are just here as HIS ambassadors.

The Question becomes? does OUT FATHERS WRATH come against us!
CAN JESUS CHRIST bring WRATH on HIS OWN BODY , Who HE LOVED SO MUCH, HE died for it?
Will HE turn around now And bring HIS WRATH ON IT?
I say No of course he does not bring wrath on HIS WIFE!

Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Eph 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

PRAY ABOUT IT .Think it over ! not being smart! Too be honest , I am learning from my own posts!

 

[youngjohn]

Daniel wrote about the Great Tribulation in Dan. 12:1-2 (ESV).
"At that time shall arise Michael, the great prince who has charge of your people. And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time. But at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. [2] And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Notice that the Tribulation will come before the resurrection of saints. This is the same order of future events as in Matt.24.

John

 

[spirit1st]

The resurrection ,STARTED with MY LORD and has been going on since then!




To be absent from this body is to be with my LORD!
I died both ways , So i know we go home soon as we leave these bodies WE are not of this world. Once Born Again!
He just leaves us here to live though us!





This is just before judgment day!I do not want to give my thoughts on this scripture!
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

 

[youngjohn]

evidence of a post trib rapture

I wrote in my last note that Daniel 12:1, 2 shows that the rapture will come after the Tribulation. The rapture will come at the time of resurrection of the saints.

Jeremiah 30:7-9 (ESV)
Alas! That day is so great
there is none like it;
it is a time of distress for Jacob;
yet he shall be saved out of it.

[8] "And it shall come to pass in that day, declares the Lord of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off your neck, and I will burst your bonds, and foreigners shall no more make a servant of him. [9] But they shall serve the Lord their God and David their king, whom I will raise up for them.


Here again the Bible shows that the rapture will follow the Tribulation. This is consistent with Matt. 24.

John

 

[spirit1st]

WE see with Noah, How HE saved him from his wrath in a earthly was !
We being now spiritual, He saves us in a spiritual way, Taking us home till his wrath is finished!
His wrath is not toward us
No problem , we just disagree on this!

 

[chris meads]

What I believe!

There are some things I am very fond of and this is one of them,This pre trib raptuer ya'll speak of has for the longest time been described as though you'll just wake up in the morning and all these people are missing (Thats a fear doctorin and a lie) First MY God don't have to sneak around in the night for he is god and secondly everyone on the planet will know it when its happening written in matt. 24 the whole earth morns.
But I don't exspect anyone to believe me, and I'm gona have a hard time the day after to hold my tong from saying I told you so!!!!!
:shade:

 

[youngjohn]

Evidence

The bibllical order of Tribulation and Rapture is also seen in Isaiah 26.
Verse 17 shows Israel in birth pains. This is the Great Tribulation.

Verse 19 speaks of the resurrection of bodies that had died. This is the resurrection.

Verse 20 invites people to "enter your chambers and shut your doors" and hide for a little while. This is the rapture.

Verse 21 shows God "coming to punish the inhabitasns of earth." This is the Wrath of God.

This is the same order of future events as in Matthew 24, Daniel 12, and Jeremiah 30.

The idea of a rapture before the Great Tribulation is not biblical. If it is, show the evidence from the Scripture.

John

 

[chris meads]

Im sorry jhon I have to believe what god tells me to believe for it to be counted as rightiousness for me. As far as such a detailed account of things to come it's quit irelavant for the only thin thats of worth is Do you know the living Christ for I meet so many who only know of him and don't know him. And even still I know many who know him and only use that to esault themselves and are not known by him. However it is written in jeremiah 31:34 or 34:31 that all will know him it's also written in hosea.
But strive to be known of him . Amen and amen

 

[shinethelight10]

Hello, I'm new member here. I was a member at rapture ready forums, and I was banned there for no reason. I come here and see that this talk jesus forums is open minded. This is good

 

[youngjohn]

One of the verses used to support the pretrlib rapture is 1 Thes. 5:9 (ESV):
For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,

This is supposed to prove that the saints will not experience the Great Tribulation. This is wrong. The afflictlions that Job experienced were not the wrath of God. The Bible gives enough information that we know this. Likewise the Bible gives enough information that we know the Great Tribulation is not the Wrath of God.

In chapter 7 of Revelation we see a vast throng of saints who will come through the Tribulation. Rev. 13:7 tells us who is responsible for thelir death. It is not God. Don't ever say the Tribulation is the Wrath of God. That slanders Him.

The idea of a pretrib rapture is a fiction.

John

 

[Nephesh]

I found this board about a year ago or so. I rarely post mostly read however I do find it to be an environment one is not truly allowed to express how they feel unless its going with the status quo if you get my drift. I also feel many of the people over there well to me they seem quite judgmental and not very Christ like.

 

[Stephen1]

Nephesh,

The RR forum has been take over by those who use the pre-tribulation "rapture" as a front, but their behavior exposes them as being very judgmental and cultish

I teach a pre-tribulation, premillennial, dispensational, futuristic view of the prophetic scriptures, but I do not support the RR forum moderators .... Todd and Terry have allowed their forum to be captured and controlled by some very nefarious characters

Chad has asked me to come and post more on the forum and I intend to .... I think this is a very good forum and one that all christian persuasions can participate

I will show for those who have an interest that the Bible does support the Lord's pre-tribulation action to immortalize the church of today .... both those asleep and those alive at the time

I will begin with a series of new postings rather than add to this particular thread .... I started this thread long ago and for the very purpose of warning against the RR forums and their moderators .... there is something very sinister about their behavior and use of pre-tribulation teaching as a cover

Posters keep in mind that I do not say that one's position and understanding regarding the timing of the Lord's "harpazo" action is necessarily a deal breaker regarding one's salvation .... what I do see is the possible reflection of deeper doctrinal matters on other issues attached to those from false teachers who either aggressively teach against it and or have been deceived by those who do

The Lord has said that one must be ready .... for a time that no one can know ..... those who become believers during the coming tribulation period will be able to know the day of Lord's appearance on the earth at the end of His coming hour [time] of trial and judgment

.... there is no contradiction ..... a time that one cannot know .... and a time that one can know .... two different events are in view separated by time lapse .... not both the same

Professing christianity is a fairly large number on the earth today although small when compared with 6 billion inhabitants .... many of the professing are not believers and consequently not ready ..... this is because many think they are saved for various reasons and are not .... the professing church is full of them ..... and they certainly are not ready

So I warn against those who are aggressively refuting a pre-tribulation rapture for this reason .... I detect something very wrong with this position since I believe that the scriptures are quite complete and clear on the issue .... hands down

I will also say that I believe satan is behind this movement .... he is coming to the earth and would want as many humans as possible to join him during the coming tribulation period for what should be obvious reasons to anyone .... he hates the idea of human immortality and will interfere in any way possible for preventing this from happening

The coming tribulation period will be exceptionally vexing, confusing, and destructive .... an environment not conducive for humans to seek the truth about Jesus Christ .... and Revelation tells that most will not repent and turn to the Lord during the period .... this setting satan is counting on [2Thessalonians 2:8-12; Revelation 12:12]

 

[Stephen1]

I have been away from the forum for a while and have not had time to read and respond to all of the responses on this thread .... if any have further replies or questions at this time I will be posting more regularly

 

[youngjohn]

Evidence

I find evidence in the Bible that supports a post trib. rapture.

Luke chapter 21 talks about the Great Tribulatlon. Luke 21:34 (ESV) says, "But watch yourselves lest your hearts be weighed down with dissipation and drunkenness and cares of this life, and that day come upon you suddenly like a trap."

If the rapture will come first, that day cannot come upon us suddenly llike a trap.

John

 

[Stephen1]

John,

Actually there is nothing in scripture that supports a post-tribulation "rapture" .... and there would be no need for a "rapture" [snatching away] at the end of the tribulation period

I would suggest that the following scriptures be read for the evidence of the Lord's action to immortalize the church of both those asleep and those living just before He brings His hour [time] of trial and judgment:

These are the 24 elders and the great multitude who dwell in heaven with the Lord in His temple and around His throne just before and during the tribulation period .... these will return to the earth with Him at the end of the period:

[Revelatiom 4:4; 5:5-10; 7:9-17; 11:1; 12:12; 13:6; 17:14; 18:4; 19:14; 20:4 (those on thrones)]

Make certain that you are ready [Matthew 25:1-13]

Revelation
3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Luke
21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them [an unbelieving world] that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

Revelation
6:15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

1Thessalonians
5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

5:3 For when they [the unbelieving world] shall cry, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ

 

[youngjohn]

evidence

Steve:

You began your last post by saying, "Actually there is nothing in scripture that supports a post-tribulation "rapture." That is a contrary to fact assumption.

There is no man so blind as he who chooses not to see.

I have already given evidence from the Bible that would pursuade a man who is not already biased. I wish to continue giving evidence in the hope that some ones who read these lines will have minds open to what the Bible actually says.

In your message you quote Rev. 3:10 . This was given to one of the seven churches. You conveniently ignore the message to Thyatira in Rev. 2:22 (ESV):

Behold, I will throw her onto a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her I will throw into great tribulation, unless they repent of her works,

Is it reasonable that one church is warned that she may get it and others will not?

Notice that 3:10 does not use the word translated tribulatlon but 2:22 does use it.

John

 

[Stephen1]

YJ,

I interpret Revelation 1, 2, and 3 much differently than you do

This message of the Lord's is His evaluation of the corporate church on the earth from its inception to finish .... He includes both the positives and negatives and we have all of these same conditions even today across the board .... the churches of Asia Minor were just used as examples to convey His message .... and no one knows, or has known, when He will bring His hour [time of judgment] of trial upon an unbelieving world ..... but just before, He intends to immortalize the church just as He says [Revelation 3:10]

True believers will be immortalized ..... those who profess only will not [Matthew 25:1-13; Revelation 3:16-19; 16:15] .... this is the condition of most of professsing christianity today and one does not want to find themselves rejected by Him

Your comment:

"There is no man so blind as he who chooses not to see"

Your demeanor is unacceptable to me because calling some one "blind" is a form of aggessive ranting behavior used as a debating tactic .... I see this same thing all over the forum boards and it indicates to me that you have ulterior motives with your response .... your crass insinuations will have no affect upon me in any way

I will discuss the scriptures with any who present a mature and reasonable demeanor, but in your case this does not appear to be possible ..... if you follow false teaching that encourages you to behave in the way in which you do on a public forum I would suggest that you investigate the following .... there is something very unchristian like under the cover

You remind me of those who are trapped in the christian cults ..... I have a number of years of experience deprogramming those who have engaged in them .... I see this in your make up .... who are you following and where did you get the idea of your post-tribulational [or pre-wrath .... or preteristic] view

IF you want to discuss Bible prophecy with me you will have to change your approach, otherwise I have no interest in any form of agrumentation with you .... I believe this type of display on a public forum makes a mockery of the Lord's purposes for those who look on .... my general response is to ignore those who come to cause conflict and division

 

[Peterorange]

Just read through the whole thread, and it is so good to see Christians using their minds as well as their hearts to search for God's truths...as He intends us to.

But a note of warning. I'm not sure it applies to anyone here but be careful not to let side-issues - which is what this is at the end of the day - become more important than the Gospel itself; our salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ and our Great Commission to go to all nations and proclaim the Good News.

As those who have accepted Jesus as Lord and Saviour we are promised eternal life, and that is good enough for me. "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority." (Acts 1:7). In the meantime we have a lost and hurting world to reach out to and the labourers are few.

Carry on

 

[greatlybeloved]

The problem with pre-tribbers and post-tribbers (or ANY tribbers) is that, they WANT to believe their positions and argue what ever it takes to defend their positions.

I urge all of you, for once, leave your theories, commentaries, books and just read the Bible (nothing else). I know it takes long time but its worth it. And study of the Scriptures is a LABOUR (1 Timothy 5:17), and we need the Spirit's help.

Almost all theories are based on MANY assumptions (or 'patterns' or 'types').

I have done some study and laid the prophetic timeline (based on Scriptures). I tried not to assume anything, but it is quite possible that I did the same mistake that I've been criticizing others of. So feel free to correct me WITH DIRECT SCRIPTURES (not assumptions/types).

With Chad's permission:
http://www.talkjesus.com/members/gr...udy-charts-picture4065-prophetic-timeline.jpg

For more charts on various rapture theories, see my album "Bible-Study-Charts" in my profile.

John.