Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

[KingJ]

Brethren in the body of Christ were all of those who obediently complied with Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. .’

I agree with this verse. The fact you are missing is the significance of the word '''repent''. The very first word here is your stumbling block.

There is repent and then there is repent. You can ''repent'' all year long and not receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, saving faith to call Jesus Lord 1 Cor 12:3....UNTIL you pass a judgement in that moment of your heart Jer 17:9-12.

God is not a fool that grafts a devil into heaven just because someone says some ''magical words'' and takes a swim.

John 10:27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves (not swim, say magical words, pray in tongues or cast out demons) to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you unless, of course, you fail the test?

Paul and the disciples would preach to all in attendance respectfully, assuming the best of all. This is how a good preacher preaches from the pulpit. The preaching on sin 1 Cor 6:9-12, helping orphans James 1:27 reveals the unsaved in attendance. When Jesus is in you, there is a holiness, a love of righteousness that cannot be faked.

 

[Downunder]

OSAS is true, what you espouse wreaks of a works based salvation. Playing tiddly winks when God wants the real thing.

Sorry but none of what you write supports OSAS
OSAS is not the gospel of salvation - a believer repents and is "saved" by grace but the epistles teach us that you must continue in that grace and be fruitful.
Believers, disciples, Christians have been known to walk away from that grace - and they become sinful and unrighteous.
There is no salvation left for them Jesus clearly states this himself.
Jesus is talking about Spirit-filled Christians, Pentecostal Christians and has this warning for such:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but who doeth the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in thy name, and in thy name cast out demons, and in thy name do many mighty works?
7:23 And then will I profess to them [that] I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.

Now who are these Christian disciples who work lawlessness or iniquities? Those who have departed from the faith, or backslidden, or trampled the grace of God underfoot.
Not everybody who becomes a Christian remains a Christian to the end.

 

[Downunder]

fake Christians among us.

Names please. Let you point them out. There are probably some here right now on Talk Jesus.

 

[Downunder]

Why the warnings and admonishments about being deceived or led astray or false doctrine etc. etc. etc. to those who are already saved through the baptisms of water and the Spirit??
If the apostles taught OSAS they would be preaching none of this.

Colossians 2:6 As therefore ye received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
2:7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in the faith, even as ye were taught, abounding therein in thanksgiving.
2:8 Look out, lest any shall be that makes spoil of you through the philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ:

(YLT) See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ,

 

[KingJ]

Sorry but none of what you write supports OSAS

I like how you cherry pick a line like you did and do not address a single argument I raised.

OSAS is not the gospel of salvation - a believer repents and is "saved" by grace but the epistles teach us that you must continue in that grace and be fruitful.

''Being fruitful'' is not a necessity for salvation, it is a product of salvation. You are teaching a works based salvation.

Believers, disciples, Christians have been known to walk away from that grace - and they become sinful and unrighteous.

The scripture you quoting speaks of them ''tasting'' of Christianity, not being sold out for Jesus.

There is no salvation left for them Jesus clearly states this himself.
Jesus is talking about Spirit-filled Christians, Pentecostal Christians and has this warning for such:

No He is not. Quote the scripture, lets examine it.

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of the heavens; but who doeth the will of my Father who is in the heavens.
7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in thy name, and in thy name cast out demons, and in thy name do many mighty works?
7:23 And then will I profess to them [that] I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work lawlessness.

Now who are these Christian disciples who work lawlessness or iniquities? Those who have departed from the faith, or backslidden, or trampled the grace of God underfoot.
Not everybody who becomes a Christian remains a Christian to the end.

You take the scripture I gave you and think it supports anti-OSAS .

Look closely at the deeds of these people in Matt 7:22. ''Prophecy, cast out demons, mighty works''. Now ask yourself, if these people were helping orphans James 1:27, or laying their lives down for Jesus Rev 2:10 or truthfully repenting of sins and humbling themselves Psalm 51:17, would Jesus say verse 23 to them? No, no He would not. These people are full of vanity. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. Simon the sorcerer comes to mind. Not suggesting a Christian can't be humble and still cast out demons, this however is not the context of this passage by Jesus.

 

[KingJ]

Why the warnings and admonishments about being deceived or led astray or false doctrine etc. etc. etc. to those who are already saved through the baptisms of water and the Spirit??
If the apostles taught OSAS they would be preaching none of this.

Colossians 2:6 As therefore ye received the Christ, Jesus the Lord, walk in him,
2:7 rooted and builded up in him, and established in the faith, even as ye were taught, abounding therein in thanksgiving.
2:8 Look out, lest any shall be that makes spoil of you through the philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the elements of the world, and not after Christ:

(YLT) See that no one shall be carrying you away as spoil through the philosophy and vain deceit, according to the deliverance of men, according to the rudiments of the world, and not according to Christ,

We are exhorted to daily examine ourselves and fellowship often for two reasons.

1. We can think we are saved, but not actually be saved 1 Cor 10:12, 2 Cor 13:5.
2. We are here to be His ambassadors 2 Cor 5:20. To live is Christ to die is gain Phil 1:21.

The devil cannot destroy us, but he can entangle us with a love of the world and venial sins.

You and I, who God keeps on earth to serve Him, after we have both made the same decision as the criminal next to Jesus, run the risk of losing our salvation? If anything, we should be ''more secure''.

If one ''truly'' believed in anti-OSAS they would drive cars with no seat belt. Take sky diving as a hobby. Work as a shark tank inspector. The sooner we die ''in Christ'' the better our chances of going to heaven, right?

 

[KingJ]

Names please. Let you point them out. There are probably some here right now on Talk Jesus.

We / mods could isolate someone as Paul did in 1 Cor 5:1. But mostly, we need to grasp Jer 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart.

 

[Downunder]

Look closely at the deeds of these people in Matt 7:22. ''Prophecy, cast out demons, mighty works''. Now ask yourself, if these people were helping orphans James 1:27, or laying their lives down for Jesus Rev 2:10 or truthfully repenting of sins and humbling themselves Psalm 51:17, would Jesus say verse 23 to them? No, no He would not. These people are full of vanity. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. Simon the sorcerer comes to mind. Not suggesting a Christian can't be humble and still cast out demons, this however is not the context of this passage by Jesus.

Sorry but this is complete gobbledegook -
Jesus is referring to pentecostal Christians to come viz-a viz Mark 16:15-20

 

[Downunder]

''Being fruitful'' is not a necessity for salvation, it is a product of salvation. You are teaching a works based salvation.

Matthew 7:17 Thus every good tree bringeth forth good fruits; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruits.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruits.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into fire.
7:20 Surely then by their fruits ye shall know them.

Luke 3:9 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:22 And he sown among the thorns, this is who heareth the word; and the care of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, chokes the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
13:23 And he sown upon the good ground, this is who heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit and bringeth forth, the one a hundredfold, the one sixty, the one thirty.

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every one that beareth fruit, he pruneth it, that it bear more fruit.

2Peter 1:8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1:9 For who lacketh these is blind, short-sighted, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins.

 

[Downunder]

If one ''truly'' believed in anti-OSAS they would drive cars with no seat belt. Take sky diving as a hobby. Work as a shark tank inspector. The sooner we die ''in Christ'' the better our chances of going to heaven, right?

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him into the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,
4:6 and saith to him, If thou art God’s Son cast thyself down: for it is written [that] He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: And on their hands they shall bear thee up, Lest haply thou dash thy foot against a stone.
4:7 Said Jesus to him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God. [7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”]
Exactly that we do not tempt God by deliberately driving through red lights.
And another issue is that when we die we do not go to heaven straight away - spiritually we are with Christ in life and death.

 

[Born Again 2004]

@Downunder you have your convictions and support them with many a scripture
and since we both believe in Jesus, alleast please address each of these questions:
1. Does God save those individuals who believe in Him?
2. Is God perfect?
3. Does God make mistakes?
Thank you for answering what is in your heart and God Bless!

 

[KingJ]

Sorry but this is complete gobbledegook -
Jesus is referring to pentecostal Christians to come viz-a viz Mark 16:15-20

You quote Matt 7, I showed it does not support your cause. In no way shape or form.

Now you move the goal posts and post Mark 16. Lets look at that unbiasedly.

Mark 16:15 - 20

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Yes, Christians can do these things, we have the Holy Spirit with us. Doing these things does not make us a Christian though.

Do you agree that you can dance like a clown, but still not be a clown?

 

[KingJ]

Matthew 4:5 Then the devil taketh him into the holy city, and set him on the pinnacle of the temple,
4:6 and saith to him, If thou art God’s Son cast thyself down: for it is written [that] He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: And on their hands they shall bear thee up, Lest haply thou dash thy foot against a stone.
4:7 Said Jesus to him, Again it is written, Thou shalt not make trial of the Lord thy God. [7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”]
Exactly that we do not tempt God by deliberately driving through red lights.

You are just moving the goal posts and ignoring the argument raised.

If I go and ask fifty Christians if they are right with God right now and then kill them all. Thereby gaurantee'ing they all go to heaven. Would I be considered a hero among your anti-OSAS friends?

Lets say if I did not do this, 35 would fall into temptation, lose their salvation and go to hell for all eternity. I must be a hero, right?

spiritually we are with Christ in life and death.

Unless of course God puts you through some temptation that bowls you over and you lose your salvation.....right?

 

[Br. Bear]

But mostly, we need to grasp Jer 17:9-10 span.bible { /*color: #D97070;*/ font-size: 16px; font-weight: 400; } span.bible a { /*color: #D97070;*/ /*background-color: #FFE9E9;*/ padding: 1px 4px; border-radius: 1px; } The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? I the Lord search the heart.

indeed it is

and

yes, He does


Bless you ....><>
Post in Peace

 

[Br. Bear]

For you, brothers, were called to freedom; but do not use your freedom as an opportunity for the flesh. Rather, serve one another in love. The entire law is fulfilled in a single decree: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” But if you keep on biting and devouring one another, watch out, or you will be consumed by one another.

--------------------------------------------------->

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are opposed to each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.

The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, and debauchery; idolatry and sorcery; hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions, and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like.

I warn you, as I did before, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Against such things there is no law.

Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us walk in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying one another.
Galatians 5:13-26

 

[KingJ]

Matthew 7:17 Thus every good tree bringeth forth good fruits; but the corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruits.
7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruits, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruits.
7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into fire.
7:20 Surely then by their fruits ye shall know them.

How does this support your cause? You need to accompany scripture you think does, with an explanation.

This verse supports OSAS 100%. As a Christian, your seed is Christ. You are a ''good'' tree. You can bring forth ''good fruit''. A bad tree cannot evolve into a good tree and good tree cannot evolve into a bad tree. These verses speak to the seed / the tree we are.

A Christian can give / should give without ''anything'' in return. As an anti-OSAS believer one would probably hope God is watching their ''fruits / good deeds'', right? Imagine He wasn't. Would they still do good deeds? I think not.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings all,

the title to this thread is

Beyond being saved, what must christians really do?

answer: Bear Fruit


Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[KingJ]

Luke 3:9 And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is cut down, and cast into the fire.

Note that this verse does not say ''every good tree that went bad''. It says the axe lieth at ''the root''.

Matthew 13:22 And he sown among the thorns, this is who heareth the word; and the care of the age, and the deceitfulness of riches, chokes the word, and he becometh unfruitful. 13:23 And he sown upon the good ground, this is who heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit and bringeth forth, the one a hundredfold, the one sixty, the one thirty.

We may make the mistake of sewing seeds into the wrong ground. God does not. This parable we can learn from, but not entirely applicable to Christianity as the Holy Spirit plants the seed of Jesus 1 Cor 12:3 and He does not do so unless the ground is fertile.

 

[Br. Bear]

And hereby we do know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. He that saith, I know Him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him. He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.
1John 2:3-6

 

[KingJ]

John 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit, he taketh it away: and every one that beareth fruit, he pruneth it, that it bear more fruit.

This verse does not speak to Christians being removed, it speaks to those fake Christians in attendance at meetings.

It is inevitable for a Christian to not bear fruit. The problem I believe lies in your understanding of what a Christian is. What it takes to be a Christian.

The this verse in John is before the cross. As such a more applicable example would be to say ''my girlfriends that do what pleases me''. After the cross it is ''my wife''. If my girlfriend does not show that she likes me, she is out. My wife has already shown the she loves me, that is why I married her.

2Peter 1:8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1:9 For who lacketh these is blind, short-sighted, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins.

Up to verse 9, Peter is exhorting us to stay ''in shape'' as Christians. Not that we can lose our Christianity. Read it properly.

Verse 10 is interesting. '' Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall '' Here we see Peter basically echo what Paul says here 2 Cor 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? .

What you need to understand in Peter's verse 10 is the fact that only a Christian can do these things. Take for example how Jesus taught. He never stopped at ''eye for an eye''. He said turn the left cheek. He then said, turn the other cheek. This is beyond just being a '''good''' person. It is only possible to turn the other cheek, help orphans and give not expecting anything in return if you have a nature change. If you have sunk to a depth of intent whereby you are now married. God's ways are your ways. I do many things for my wife, expecting nothing in return, she does the same for me. We have ''moved on'' from a girlfriend / boyfriend relationship.

2 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here.