Bill Wiese (Man Who Went To Hell) - 23 Minutes in Hell (Condensed)
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Hi Sue you called me a Calvinist, 5 I don't know if that is good or bad.
I have no intention of Googling anything to find out who you are comparing me to.
Look Sue we I believe that we disagree in the subject of Hell, that's fine.
I have posted scripture etc. as we all have to open our different minds, on the Bible,
to give you and me food for thought, maybe to find new hidden truths, that's the whole point of this site.
By the way what is TULIP in England it's a flower.
With Love, Wnl
I have no intention of Googling anything to find out who you are comparing me to.
Look Sue we I believe that we disagree in the subject of Hell, that's fine.
I have posted scripture etc. as we all have to open our different minds, on the Bible,
to give you and me food for thought, maybe to find new hidden truths, that's the whole point of this site.
By the way what is TULIP in England it's a flower.
With Love, Wnl
Thomas (With out a doubt)
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Calvin was a frenchman who lived in Switzerland in the early 1500's and was one of the first Protestants.
He believed in the roman churche's eternal damnation, but also in predestination like the muslims
He believed in the roman churche's eternal damnation, but also in predestination like the muslims
Thanks Thomas, for the brief explanation on Calvin of which I have never read and that's not me. I am not going to defend myself, for believing differently from someone else.
I make my statement on Hell simply because I have studied the subject.
The word Hell comes from Egypt, then to Greeks, but I have no intension of going deeper
into my study at this time,
With Love, Wnl
I make my statement on Hell simply because I have studied the subject.
The word Hell comes from Egypt, then to Greeks, but I have no intension of going deeper
into my study at this time,
With Love, Wnl
Okay -- I'm talking about John Calvin who had his views on Scripture from a few centuries back. TULIP = T= Total depravity of man U= unconditional election L=limited atonement -- Particular Atonement. I= Irresistable grace P= perseverance of the saints (once saved always saved)
That God has elected only some for salvation. No one else will be saved. The Elect.
That Christ only died For the elect.
There are lots of articles on the subject. TULIP is an acronym that covers their main points. There is a lot more to Calvinism.
Mr. Armenius wrote his response to Mr. Calvin's points.
And, yes, a Tulip Is usually a flower. A beautiful one.
I wasn't accusing you of anything. I'll go back to previous posts to refresh my memory of comments.
My comments about Calvinism are based on your comments about John 15:16 and John 6:44 It's part of the Calvinistic teachings -- that's all.
The thing Is that 'we' don't know who God's elect are. Only He has that knowledge. "We" are told to go unto the world and share the Gospel unto salvation with all who will listen. It's up to the individual person to either accept or reject the cross of Christ. His redeeming blood.
You didn't like the video clip that was shown. The man having the vision / experience of going to hell and coming back. God's Word says that hell is a horrible place to spend eternity. His Word warns us that rejecting His Way of staying Out of hell will have mankind In hell. And, in actuality -- hell -- the lake of fire and brimstone is only meant For satan, the beast and the false prophet. Everyone Else is given the gift to be able to stay Out. We simply need to accept His gift.
God's Word says that which God's Word says.
God's Word Also tells us about heaven -- a wonderful, beautiful place in the future.
God's Word says that 'for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" And that the cost / wages/ of sin is death. But the gift of God is eternal Life through Jesus Christ the Lord.
God isn't going to be sitting around torturing people in hell -- He Will be in the New Jerusalem which is what 'heaven' really is. That's what we're told in Revelation last chapter or two.
Without God's light -- there is total darkness. Those who choose to reject the gift of Salvation Will be joining the beast, and false prophet and satan. Those are the only three who are Meant to be there forever. And, yes, they Are meant to suffer. because they purposely lead people Away from God.
And, yes, God Does love all of us. That's why He's warned us about hell -- how to stay Out of there.
No Sue correct you were not accusing me of anything,
You were just saying in your opinion that I am like Calvin
As you say T= The total depravity of man.
You believe the same The total bepravity of God, where God throws all
people who are not elected into a lake of fire, suffering in pain forever.
Pray tell me where is the gain in that, it just puts fear in ordinary people.
There was a case in where a woman drowned her five children because
she said she didn't want them to go to hell, she was found not guilty
and was sent to mental institution
God is Love, With Love, Wnl
You were just saying in your opinion that I am like Calvin
As you say T= The total depravity of man.
You believe the same The total bepravity of God, where God throws all
people who are not elected into a lake of fire, suffering in pain forever.
Pray tell me where is the gain in that, it just puts fear in ordinary people.
There was a case in where a woman drowned her five children because
she said she didn't want them to go to hell, she was found not guilty
and was sent to mental institution
God is Love, With Love, Wnl
Hi again Sue, John (15:16) and (6:44) are not Calvin teaching, but God teaching.
They are not my comments, but Gospel truths.
You said I didn't like the video clip, (who would) You say it's a vision exactly true,
so it wasn't real, it was just a vision.
The lake means people and the fire is God Himself, God is a consuming fire in judgment
You might be interested to study brimstone, you will find out that its Devine
With Love, Wnl
They are not my comments, but Gospel truths.
You said I didn't like the video clip, (who would) You say it's a vision exactly true,
so it wasn't real, it was just a vision.
The lake means people and the fire is God Himself, God is a consuming fire in judgment
You might be interested to study brimstone, you will find out that its Devine
With Love, Wnl
I didn't say that I Agree with either of those men's concepts of Scripture. They had merely been two men who did a lot of Scripture study. People really took to Mr. Calvins views - thus - Calvinism.
God's Word Does teach that those who Don't accept the plan For their salvation Will end up in hell / lake of fire and brimstone. And That doesn't need to put fear into Anyone. Because 'we' are Also told about Heaven. So -- a person Can simply choose to go to heaven. By God's way. Because Scripture Also tells everyone that No one can 'work' their way to heaven.
And, yes, I Do remember the lady you're talking about. She was mentally ill. I'm thinking that they were very young children? The mother believed in the age of accountability -- which is Scriptural -- and she believed if they died at their young age, they would automatically go to heaven. A person Does need to be old enough to know right from wrong. Mentally capable Of. Some children Are able to understand That as young as 5 or 6, but that's unusual. Parents and Sunday School teachers need to be Very careful when talking with little kids. Kids want to please the adults in their lives. So a wise adult will share but wait until the child starts asking questions. A young daughter of a youth directors family Did start asking questions and they'd share in a very relaxed way. She kept on asking and then one day she said that she had prayed and asked Jesus to be Her Savior. So they continued to share and asked what she prayed. She was showing more and more interest and then asked about being baptized. So - again - asking and answering her questians. Over More time, she asked if she could be baptized. So - they went ahead and explained more and more about it and she wanted that and for the Right reasons. They filled the baptistry and put a step stool in it cause she was short. The congregation could Then See her and she Was baptized. And her life Was showing it.
Well -- God IS sharing with all of us the way of salvation -- it's our choice. There's Also a passage that says that God Would that All would come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. But He Also knows because of His omniscience -- all knowledge -- who will and who Won't accept His plan. And that 'who so ever will believe .....part of John 3:16 on Him, will Not perish but have eternal Life. In heaven.
Hope 'this' helps.
Going back to your post #50 John 15:16 " You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that y our fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you."
And John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day." That entire section is about Jesus Christ being the bread which came down from heaven. and further down in verse 47 is says "Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. vs 48 "I am the bread of life."
Entire verses and their context are Very important.
And I Have done some researching about lake of fire and brimstone. It IS a literal place in the future -- Our concept of fire is that it eventually goes out because fire consumes and people don't usually die from fire itself -- but from smoke inhalation.
Are you maybe referring to Revelation where the land and sea beasts are being talked about. I don't recall the term 'lake' being used. But it very well could have been. And some of that Is symbolism. Symbols Do represent things. But very real things.
No one really wants to believe that a loving God would ever create a place like a lake of fire and brimstone that would last Forever. But, as Scripture says -- it will only be meant For satan, the beast and the false prophet. That is God's wrath - punishment being vented at those three. No one else needs to be there. God has already taken care of our sin problem -- the blood of Jesus Christ on the cross. All we need to do is acknowledge our personal need For salvation -- that we can't save ourselves -- accept what Jesus Christ has done For us - in our place. Thank Him for it. It's really very simple.
God's Word Also says that in the last days -- men will dream dreams and have visions. All We need to do is check our dream or vision with God's Word. If it agrees With God's Word , then....... If it Doesn't, well, then it came from another source.
There Have been instances where people in other countries have been given a vision From God and they have been convicted of their sins and come to Christ.
Will check out brimstone again -- I've just been googling -- brimestone is basically burning liquid fire -- like in a bbq pit -- smoldering coals that give off an acrid odor of sulphur dioxcide. And That is in total darkness. Like not being able to see your hand in front of your face 'dark'. And then the knashing of teeth. Really -- it would Not be a pleasant environment. Satan likes people to joke around that '"at least the boring Christian's won't be here" that they will be able to 'party' with all their friends. The only problem with That is that they won't be able to see anything and will be in the fire and brimstone or brimstone and fire. And by the time they discover that they'd listen To satan's lies -- it will be Eternally Too Late. They will be Stuck there. And Maybe part of the torment will be remembering all the people who were Trying to share this with them and they laughed at them. All the times they Could have Listened but chose to Not listen.
@Wnl -- I've been Googling Dr. Thomas B. Thayer the only real article I could find was from a group called the Tentmaker. It's a very long article and is kind of 'all over the place'. And it's hard to find him.
Honestly -- the Bible's views on hell are the only one's that are important.
There are Lots of views on hell. I was just looking all of that up.
The Fact is that no one wants to believe that hell / lake of fire and brimstone Will last Forever. As in how could Anyone be Horrible enough to Really deserve that kind of punishment. Well -- as the book of Revelation tells us -- it's really only meant For satan, the beast and the false prophet.
There Is a Lot of food for thought. For instance -- since God's Word tell everyone that eternity is in everyone's future -- wouldn't we want to spend it in the nicest possible place available?! Sure we would. Can We ? Certainly -- and God's Word tells everyone exactly How.
And all the near death experiences that people go through -- Near death -- not Totally dead. Some envision a wonderful place that they were brought back From. Other's experience horror. Dr.'s in ER rooms have said that the worse things that they observe are people who are dying and they have the most gastly looks on their faces. It's like they are 'seeing hell opening up for them' and they are horrified. But they Don't 'come back'.
But the man who Did experience 'something' and is alive to tell about it. Well -- just Maybe 'we' should take it / him seriously. He is Trying to share something to Avoid. He wasn't just having a bad dream or suffering indigestion after eating too spicy pizza or something.
Instead of searching for some 'other' explanation For hell -- just accept it for what it is and Make plans to Stay Out Of There.
Why not take time to share the Gospel unto Salvation. To make sure that 'we' are doing Our part to warn against and To Share the Way to Heaven. Mostly to spread Gospel unto Salvation.
So - now - you have My view on the subject.
Honestly -- the Bible's views on hell are the only one's that are important.
There are Lots of views on hell. I was just looking all of that up.
The Fact is that no one wants to believe that hell / lake of fire and brimstone Will last Forever. As in how could Anyone be Horrible enough to Really deserve that kind of punishment. Well -- as the book of Revelation tells us -- it's really only meant For satan, the beast and the false prophet.
There Is a Lot of food for thought. For instance -- since God's Word tell everyone that eternity is in everyone's future -- wouldn't we want to spend it in the nicest possible place available?! Sure we would. Can We ? Certainly -- and God's Word tells everyone exactly How.
And all the near death experiences that people go through -- Near death -- not Totally dead. Some envision a wonderful place that they were brought back From. Other's experience horror. Dr.'s in ER rooms have said that the worse things that they observe are people who are dying and they have the most gastly looks on their faces. It's like they are 'seeing hell opening up for them' and they are horrified. But they Don't 'come back'.
But the man who Did experience 'something' and is alive to tell about it. Well -- just Maybe 'we' should take it / him seriously. He is Trying to share something to Avoid. He wasn't just having a bad dream or suffering indigestion after eating too spicy pizza or something.
Instead of searching for some 'other' explanation For hell -- just accept it for what it is and Make plans to Stay Out Of There.
Why not take time to share the Gospel unto Salvation. To make sure that 'we' are doing Our part to warn against and To Share the Way to Heaven. Mostly to spread Gospel unto Salvation.
So - now - you have My view on the subject.
Jesus' willingly Went to the cross and shed His blood For us. Without the shed blood and the bodily resurrection Of Jesus Christ Everyone would be doomed to hell. He Gave His life -- He was already dead when the soldiers went to make sure He was.
For All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
The Wages of sin is death,but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
But God commendeth His love towards us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
And, yes, He Was willing to forgive them
People end up in hell, because they reject the only way to stay Out.
But it sounds like you'd Rather have hell being a place that isn't really all that bad and a person in there will be annialated after a little while -- disappear into nothingness. But -- the soul never dies. It keeps on forever. It has to go somewhere -- there are only two choices. We decide our own fate by either accepting God's way of being in heaven or end up being in hell
Jesus Christ went to hell For us / in our place -- so that 'we' wouldn't Have to. Because he's the only One who could take our sins upon Himself and die with it and ,most importantly -- rise back again.
For All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
The Wages of sin is death,but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
But God commendeth His love towards us, in that, while we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
And, yes, He Was willing to forgive them
People end up in hell, because they reject the only way to stay Out.
But it sounds like you'd Rather have hell being a place that isn't really all that bad and a person in there will be annialated after a little while -- disappear into nothingness. But -- the soul never dies. It keeps on forever. It has to go somewhere -- there are only two choices. We decide our own fate by either accepting God's way of being in heaven or end up being in hell
Jesus Christ went to hell For us / in our place -- so that 'we' wouldn't Have to. Because he's the only One who could take our sins upon Himself and die with it and ,most importantly -- rise back again.
ForsakeMyLifeForYou
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Great trouble is coming... - bit.ly/AREYOUPREPARED
Hi all
I believe that the word Hell will leave the Bible eventually
Let's look at some stats.
The New King James has reduced Hell from 54times to 32 times.
American Standard version, is down to 13 times
The New American 1970. has no mention of Hell at all, and many other Bibles
Have not got a mention of Hell. The translation should read, in English, death, the grave.
Don't you think that these stats are interesting, to think that the Bible scholars
are realising that our God cannot punish 99% of mankind that He made forever.
There is an interesting site called, What the Hell is Hell.
With Love Wnl
I believe that the word Hell will leave the Bible eventually
Let's look at some stats.
The New King James has reduced Hell from 54times to 32 times.
American Standard version, is down to 13 times
The New American 1970. has no mention of Hell at all, and many other Bibles
Have not got a mention of Hell. The translation should read, in English, death, the grave.
Don't you think that these stats are interesting, to think that the Bible scholars
are realising that our God cannot punish 99% of mankind that He made forever.
There is an interesting site called, What the Hell is Hell.
With Love Wnl
Brother-Paul
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- Jul 14, 2015
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Hi brother
Just another thought my friend.
Nothing is impossible for God, He is the creator of all things, He can add He can take away, He knows how everything was made that was made.
Blessing
Just another thought my friend.
Nothing is impossible for God, He is the creator of all things, He can add He can take away, He knows how everything was made that was made.
Blessing
Dave M
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- Oct 2, 2015
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Hell is real and is talked about in the bible, and those that go choose to go, we have been given life here on earth, the second greatest gift of all, but many do not appreciate it, and think of as a entitlement, well they are going to miss out on the FIRST GREATEST gift of all time and that is eternal life, instead they will face eternal punishment.
people who claim there is no hell simply have a entitlement attitude, God gave us life and if we dont appreciate it and seek him, well he is going to give us eternity with out him and it aint going to be pretty
The devil wants you to think Hell is not forever or so bad, but God has made it clear in his word
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
seems to me eternal punishment means forever to be punished, this is not some purifying thing, this is life forever in punishment. We get our time on earth now for a mere 100 years or so and it will effect our eternity, this is serious business, God holds us accountable and the stakes or eternal life or eternal punishment
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
people who claim there is no hell simply have a entitlement attitude, God gave us life and if we dont appreciate it and seek him, well he is going to give us eternity with out him and it aint going to be pretty
The devil wants you to think Hell is not forever or so bad, but God has made it clear in his word
Matthew 25:46
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
seems to me eternal punishment means forever to be punished, this is not some purifying thing, this is life forever in punishment. We get our time on earth now for a mere 100 years or so and it will effect our eternity, this is serious business, God holds us accountable and the stakes or eternal life or eternal punishment
Revelation 21:8
But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Matthew 10:28
And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Revelation 20:10
And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur where the beast and the false prophet were, and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Revelation 20:15
And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Matthew 25:41
“Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
