Can you be both Liberal and Christian?

[pet]

Why don't you believe that America was established by God as a Christian country? I am not talking about now with Trump as the President. I am talking about America when it was first beginning as a nation of people.

When you choose to obey God instead of the government of man, you are making a political statement.

Yes, today the laws of the land have been eroded and are not Christian. It wasn't that way before. And yet you act like we as Christians should not take any political interest in preserving the laws that were before and benefited the Christian. We should be too spiritual and look to God only while the world goes about changing our laws for satan's benefit. What pray tell is Christian about that? It is more in line with cowardice.

If Christians had a spine before and fought against any LGBT acceptance, perhaps we wouldn't have to suffer the persecutions that are going to come up.

So, in my view, you err in believing the U.S. was not created by God as a Christian country. Then you err in your pacifism in saying that all we should do is die as martyrs for God. God has this certain tendency where when He gives man a responsibility, He expects man to be responsible in carrying it out. Just like the death penalty. God is the One who gave it to man to carry out. (Gen. 9:6) But, so many bleeding hearts, and Christian bleeding hearts crying for the love of God and not vengeance, refuse to support it and say that is God's business. But no. God says, I gave it to you. If you don't want to carry it out, don't hand it back to Me. You now get to live with the consequences.

So God gives a Christian nation to a people. And the people then let it go back to hell because they just don't want to interfere in God's business. They don't want to be seen as political. Let God take care of it.

Quantrill

sORRYY.

God never said will stabilise a "christian nations"! NO! The only Nation of God is the Chrurch.
Yes some Europeans "christians" left at America and killed the people there in order to get their earth. That does not mean is a christian nation.
I believe and know many real Chrsitans from USA. But that is just like all over the world.
Even Europe has the name "Christians" and here Greece is "Greek Orthodox Christan" nation, but they dont really walk with Jesus.

Also Christians dont have to argue, LGBT is a movement that came and we are not the risponsibles to stop them We preach Holiness and God is the One who will jude them.
Stop to "fight for a better world" NO there is not a better world. All those things that happen are prophesied by Scriptures and we know that all have an end when Jesus comes.:
to resurrect his church and punish the wicked.Amen.

 

[pet]

How do you know he isnt in heaven. You cant prove it. But there is scripture in the New Testament that testifies he can be.

This thinking , that you share, is a common problem amoung many Christians. And im not blaming you, as it stems all the way back to limited and in some cases false teaching in the seminaries.

This teaching, makes Christians arrogant, self righteous. The teaching is plainly, 'we know it all' .
We say, the bible is the word of God, and it is. And the Word of God is Jesus.

What does it mean to be saved. Recieving Jesus into your heart.

Taking one page of scripture, even 1 word. And taking that 1 word into your heart. You have recieved the Word of God, who is Jesus.

Read the Gospel of John 1.1

In the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

You might say "this is crazy, 1 word" but some accept the World was made in 7 days.

I will never say, i know it all. That would be crazy. Knowing God, i know anything is possible.

Look ,God spoke against him.
God spoke against reach>?
God spoke agaist sin. i DONT trust as a Christian anybody who is in sin. Even if miracles happened by him, i dont see any Holiness in senond marriage. "by their works you will know them"
If you read scripture you will know that many times God used a proud man to beat His enemies and then when God finshed His Work, tirns agaisnt that proud man.
(i did not never any seminary, i dont study theology, i dont accept nobody from religion or Theological schools to teach me) God bless you.

 

[Quantrill]

sORRYY.

God never said will stabilise a "christian nations"! NO! The only Nation of God is the Chrurch.
Yes some Europeans "christians" left at America and killed the people there in order to get their earth. That does not mean is a christian nation.
I believe and know many real Chrsitans from USA. But that is just like all over the world.
Even Europe has the name "Christians" and here Greece is "Greek Orthodox Christan" nation, but they dont really walk with Jesus.

Also Christians dont have to argue, LGBT is a movement that came and we are not the risponsibles to stop them We preach Holiness and God is the One who will jude them.
Stop to "fight for a better world" NO there is not a better world. All those things that happen are prophesied by Scriptures and we know that all have an end when Jesus comes.:
to resurrect his church and punish the wicked.Amen.

It is God who Christianized Europe. They used to be Christian. Now they are just a shell of Christianity. But at one time they were Christian from the King to the pauper. God created the Christian political protection for Christianity to flourish. The U.S. is the same. It is no coincidence that Martin Luther's 95 thesis and Christopher Columbus finding America, were that far apart. God was creating a Protestant nation, a country of refuge for Christians fleeing the wrath of Romanism.

Yes indeed, the Christians that came here had to fight and kill the Indians who were a people turned over to false gods. And they had to fight and kill to maintain that which they conquered. Seems like I remember God doing something like that with Joshua and Canaan. And because America was such a thorough Christian nation, look at the good it did in furthering the Kingdom of God. How many Churches grew in it? How many missionaries did it send out with the Gospel.

But alas, so called Christians today, just like yourself, blame the early Christians for taking over America and subduing the Indians. And these, like yourself, are willing to watch that which was obtained at a high price for the Kingdom of God, to be cast in the dirt. All because you have a better world in view. Having a better world in view, Heaven, does not mean you ignore where you are at now. Such pacifism is a bane in the Church today.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Faith , hope and love, and the greatest of these is Love

To be born again, requires Jesus to be in your heart, faith is only the beginning.

You still have to recieve Jesus in your heart , " No one can go to the Father, but through me"

To be born-again requires faith in Jesus Christ. That is all. (John 3:16-18)

So, there is one only primary rule to be a child of God. You must be born-again.

Quantrill

 

[pet]

It is God who Christianized Europe. They used to be Christian. Now they are just a shell of Christianity. But at one time they were Christian from the King to the pauper. God created the Christian political protection for Christianity to flourish. The U.S. is the same. It is no coincidence that Martin Luther's 95 thesis and Christopher Columbus finding America, were that far apart. God was creating a Protestant nation, a country of refuge for Christians fleeing the wrath of Romanism.

Yes indeed, the Christians that came here had to fight and kill the Indians who were a people turned over to false gods. And they had to fight and kill to maintain that which they conquered. Seems like I remember God doing something like that with Joshua and Canaan. And because America was such a thorough Christian nation, look at the good it did in furthering the Kingdom of God. How many Churches grew in it? How many missionaries did it send out with the Gospel.

But alas, so called Christians today, just like yourself, blame the early Christians for taking over America and subduing the Indians. And these, like yourself, are willing to watch that which was obtained at a high price for the Kingdom of God, to be cast in the dirt. All because you have a better world in view. Having a better world in view, Heaven, does not mean you ignore where you are at now. Such pacifism is a bane in the Church today.

Quantrill

Ok i understand you have your own view of things. That is ok. i dont blame early Christians! Those people were not Christians.
Christian is one who strives to live like Jesus, and Protestant is one who protests against his mother catholic church..a religion...
Sure nothing happens without God let it be, and also God can use and he does Kings-Presidents-Nations etc.
God NEVER EVER did a Protestant Religion. Protestants (like the word means is one who Protests) it is a religion just like Catholics and Orthodox.
There are Nations called Catholics ,and others Orthodox ,other Muslims and other Protestants. Sure nothing happen without God permits but God`s people are NOT any of those religions. (a Christian is not anyone who says "Lord Lord")
Luther was used by God ,but neither God neither Luther did any "Lutheran" religion, that is man-made.
After them came Baptists, God saw them the Baptism and ...man made the baptist church, NOT God.
Then came the Holiness movement and man made Wesleyan Churches...
Then came the Holy Spirit Baptism from God...and men made a Pentecostal religion....
Then came the doctrine of the One God and baptism in the name of Jesus ...men did the Apostolic religion>
So my bother You have God moving in history and Satan mimic Hisd work/
All those religions are not by God and are not obeying the Gospel..but the Church of Jesus Christ is in the way out of Babylonian religion
We have to go out of the Catholic Babylon and also from her daughters : Protestants,Pentecostals etc.
Amen. (and for the history, may God still punish and will punish more of those who worship false gods, God did use those people to punish them but this doesn not make them God`s people! God`s people we are commanded to dont murder !!!! We dont give right. It is righten ! Also keep in mind the punishment will come for all false religions including the above religions)

 

[pet]

To be born-again requires faith in Jesus Christ. That is all. (John 3:16-18)

So, there is one only primary rule to be a child of God. You must be born-again.

Quantrill

Amen, Faith is all in all, and also to have a right understanding of what is faith:
"Faith without work is dead" James.
"without holiness nobody will see the Lord"
"if one dont have the Spirit of Christ is none of His"
" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
So one must here the gospel and believe. Believe means obey, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." So you obey Acts,2:38 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Amen.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @pet

may i ask, are you Greek? If so, you can read Greek, yes?

If so, can you please tell me what this word means?

ἄνωθεν
or
από πάνω

I, like you, am not a scholar but i am very interested in what you tell me this word means in English, as you seem good at English language.


Bless you ....><>

 

[pet]

Greetings @pet

may i ask, are you Greek? If so, you can read Greek, yes?

If so, can you please tell me what this word means?

ἄνωθεν
or
από πάνω

I, like you, am not a scholar but i am very interested in what you tell me this word means in English, as you seem good at English language.


Bless you ....><>

Hi brother.
It means "from above" (απο=from+πάνω=up ,New Greek) Ancient Greek : ανω-θεν=from up.

 

[Br. Bear]

Hi brother.
It means "from above" (απο=from+πάνω=up ,New Greek) Ancient Greek : ανω-θεν=from up.

Thank you. That is what I thought but because i do not speak Greek and i saw that you are from Greece, I should ask you.
The reason I am interested in the meaning is because I am trying to understand the connection between 'from above' and 'again' which we find in the Gospel of John chapter three verse three.

In English, most translations read, born 'again', but some read 'born from above'.

My thought at present is that the birth Jesus spoke of was given from above, and was not from our flesh, our bodies, and therefore not of this world. So whether it is born again or born from above might not matter because it is a new birth, so to speak, or a different one to the natural birth we have already been born with. The best thing, i decided or was prompted to decide was to ask Him Who knows and to trust that He will reveal to me that which is appropriate for me to know, in His time.

One thing i do know, once i was completely 'dead' to loving Jesus the Son of God but one day after hearing the Gospel, I was changed as if in a moment and i have loved our Lord and Saviour ever since... and that can only be something that He has given to me from above, for this world was not able.

Thank you again for your explanation and reply,


Bless you ....><>

 

[Quantrill]

Ok i understand you have your own view of things. That is ok. i dont blame early Christians! Those people were not Christians.
Christian is one who strives to live like Jesus, and Protestant is one who protests against his mother catholic church..a religion...
Sure nothing happens without God let it be, and also God can use and he does Kings-Presidents-Nations etc.
God NEVER EVER did a Protestant Religion. Protestants (like the word means is one who Protests) it is a religion just like Catholics and Orthodox.
There are Nations called Catholics ,and others Orthodox ,other Muslims and other Protestants. Sure nothing happen without God permits but God`s people are NOT any of those religions. (a Christian is not anyone who says "Lord Lord")
Luther was used by God ,but neither God neither Luther did any "Lutheran" religion, that is man-made.
After them came Baptists, God saw them the Baptism and ...man made the baptist church, NOT God.
Then came the Holiness movement and man made Wesleyan Churches...
Then came the Holy Spirit Baptism from God...and men made a Pentecostal religion....
Then came the doctrine of the One God and baptism in the name of Jesus ...men did the Apostolic religion>
So my bother :smile: You have God moving in history and Satan mimic Hisd work/
All those religions are not by God and are not obeying the Gospel..but the Church of Jesus Christ is in the way out of Babylonian religion
We have to go out of the Catholic Babylon and also from her daughters : Protestants,Pentecostals etc.
Amen. (and for the history, may God still punish and will punish more of those who worship false gods, God did use those people to punish them but this doesn not make them God`s people! God`s people we are commanded to dont murder !!!! We dont give right. It is righten ! Also keep in mind the punishment will come for all false religions including the above religions)

Mayflower Compact--1620 "...Having undertaken,for the Glory of god and the advancement of the Christian Faith and the honor of our King and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by the presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid, and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal laws...."

You live in a dream world.

Quantrill

 

[Quantrill]

Amen, Faith is all in all, and also to have a right understanding of what is faith:
"Faith without work is dead" James.
"without holiness nobody will see the Lord"
"if one dont have the Spirit of Christ is none of His"
" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God."
:smile: So one must here the gospel and believe. Believe means obey, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." So you obey Acts,2:38 "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Amen.

Believe means believe. Faith is what is required to be born-again. Repentance occurs naturally when one comes to Christ, but it is an almost simultaneous action with that faith, but it follows it. It doesn't precede it.

I realize repenting first and then coming to Christ appeals to our human nature. It feeds our desire to deserve or earn it. But note Paul's statement in (1 Thess 1:9) "For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;"

He didn't say 'how you turned from idols to God'. That makes their faith a work. He said "how you turned to God from idols". The turning to God is first, the idols are just something left behind. The repentance is a result of the turning.

Quantrill

 

[pet]

Thank you. That is what I thought but because i do not speak Greek and i saw that you are from Greece, I should ask you.
The reason I am interested in the meaning is because I am trying to understand the connection between 'from above' and 'again' which we find in the Gospel of John chapter three verse three.

In English, most translations read, born 'again', but some read 'born from above'.

My thought at present is that the birth Jesus spoke of was given from above, and was not from our flesh, our bodies, and therefore not of this world. So whether it is born again or born from above might not matter because it is a new birth, so to speak, or a different one to the natural birth we have already been born with. The best thing, i decided or was prompted to decide was to ask Him Who knows and to trust that He will reveal to me that which is appropriate for me to know, in His time.

One thing i do know, once i was completely 'dead' to loving Jesus the Son of God but one day after hearing the Gospel, I was changed as if in a moment and i have loved our Lord and Saviour ever since... and that can only be something that He has given to me from above, for this world was not able.

Thank you again for your explanation and reply,


Bless you ....><>

Αctualy this is the forst thing you receive from the Lord "Nobody can believe in the Son of God if "my Father who is in heaven revealed this to you".
But like Peter had the revelation and yet was not filled with the Spirit we must then be born from Water and Spirit.
"And Peter said to them :Repent and be baptised (water) in the Name of Jesus Chrsit for REMISSION of sins, and then you will receive the Holy SPirit"
Is an other thing when the Spirit is dealing with us and diferent when it dwells in us. That is called Baptism in Spirit like all over the book of Acts.
Ephesus and Smaria were believers, they baptised in water and yet they did not had the Holy Spirit! When they got it they start speaking in other tongues too!
(baptism in water i dont mean the "as a symbol or us a testimony" i mean real baptism for remission of sins and in the name of Jesus Christ! Not just repeat "Father-Son;Holy Spirit! but "in the name of" (singular name! ) Like Peter and Paul understood and performed in that name,which is the name above all names!
"All what you do,in works or words ,do it in the name of Jesus Christ" Amen,

 

[pet]

Mayflower Compact--1620 "...Having undertaken,for the Glory of god and the advancement of the Christian Faith and the honor of our King and country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern parts of Virginia, do by the presents solemnly and mutually in the presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil body politic, for our better ordering and preservation and furtherance of the ends aforesaid, and by virtue hereof to enact, constitute and frame such just and equal laws...."

You live in a dream world.

Quantrill

Ok i sympathise you now. Is a government text....
God of this world is Satan my friend! Yes he is ...when they say God, they mean their father...the devil.
i mean that very few will be saved, and "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
(as for the "dream" world yes is from My Father which is in heaven ,not of this world! Thank you for remind me!)

 

[pet]

Believe means believe. Faith is what is required to be born-again. Repentance occurs naturally when one comes to Christ, but it is an almost simultaneous action with that faith, but it follows it. It doesn't precede it.

I realize repenting first and then coming to Christ appeals to our human nature. It feeds our desire to deserve or earn it. But note Paul's statement in (1 Thess 1:9) "For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;"

He didn't say 'how you turned from idols to God'. That makes their faith a work. He said "how you turned to God from idols". The turning to God is first, the idols are just something left behind. The repentance is a result of the turning.

Quantrill

Yes believe according to scripture means believe means believe in what?> In the Gispel! So the gospel is "repent (turn off your sins) and be baptised (be burried with Jesus) and you will receive the Holy Spirit) . If one dont obey this ,thgen means or that they dont have saving faith or they vever listened the real gosepl.
And then when you receive the Spirit you have to continue walking by the Spirit "fFor as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. "!!
"if we walk in flesh we are go to die"
(faith is God has even a demon! But faith without works is dead! Our faith has Holibess,seperation from the world! )
God bless you!

 

[Bill]

Hi brother.
It means "from above" (απο=from+πάνω=up ,New Greek) Ancient Greek : ανω-θεν=from up.

My Brothers. We are all in the same boat. Well except for me, im the one not allowed to be in the boat, but must make certain the boat makes it to its destination safely.

Brothers, Sisters. We are all children of the Most High. God the Father gave the church to Peter through Jesus. Jesus who died on the cross for all of us. He did not quarrel or pick apart choosing for whom He would die for. He gave up His life for all.

There is not one, no , not one person, not one church who is above one or another that Jesus did not die for.

So i say to you, if Jesus in the graciousness of his heart, could die for us all. Then can we not also with brotherly love have open arms to eachother.

Because i tell you. In heaven we are all one. In heaven there iare no multitude of ideologies. When we die. Knowledge and understanding fills you. Everyone then understands all the holes that are in each ones comprehension.

Every singe church has drifted one way or another, yet all churches think they have the nitch on God. The Father understands, knows our hearts. He loves all of us

 

[Br. Bear]

 

[Chad]

I want to remind everyone the intention of this thread I started. First, despite a couple of ignorant remarks from 2 members who aired their misconception (and have posted less than 10 times in 10 years as a member on this site), the purpose of this thread is this: discussion. Getting everyone to focus on what God says about politics, morality, ethics. I wanted to get feedback on what people thought about the subject: possibility if one can be both Liberal in views and Christian at the same time.

This is not about "causing division" as those 2 ignorant members said. This is not about judging. This is about intellectual discussions and studies. You know, that's how we grow. Not be being quiet and silent about important matters.

 

[pet]

I want to remind everyone the intention of this thread I started. First, despite a couple of ignorant remarks from 2 members who aired their misconception (and have posted less than 10 times in 10 years as a member on this site), the purpose of this thread is this: discussion. Getting everyone to focus on what God says about politics, morality, ethics. I wanted to get feedback on what people thought about the subject: possibility if one can be both Liberal in views and Christian at the same time.

This is not about "causing division" as those 2 ignorant members said. This is not about judging. This is about intellectual discussions and studies. You know, that's how we grow. Not be being quiet and silent about important matters.

Sorry i was mislead though the questions (that is conversation though) .
So my answer is NO.
And i say no, bemuse Christians are to obey the Authorities and simultaneously not to be involved in the world! (We live in the world but we are not of the world).
21 My son, fear thou the LORD and the king: and meddle not with them that are given to change:8 22 For their calamity shall rise suddenly; and who knoweth the ruin of them both? so let the Kong do his own thongs and do your own business (which is ro live holy and spread the gospel)
Anyway i dont know why you ask...i hope you dont want to be Politic :smile:
(division is in the body of Christ, when for example the Church participated at Politics with Empire Constantine ,then a split came! There was two major divisions. One wanted to stay holy and the other to be involved to the state, because they thought that this will help spread the gospel! The results are..you know what! When ever the Church was involved into politics or vice-versa the results were bad for the Church.
Bible never told us to participate on politics. Except that:
1) Be obedient to the King ,give the taxes on to Caesar and the things that belong to God ,give them to God .
2)Dont participate on the dark works of the world , we know that the Master and god of this world is Satan....we are warned.
3)we are warned to dont give our attention and precious time to vanity things , And all those politic-ideologies are in vain.
4) We are to participate on every good work! Works of light, like giving food,money etc. bad not to support any man or organization. The glory must be given to God, so yes if something brings glory to God..do it.
5) we are not to protest against any man "not blasphemy anyone". Every authority is given by God, soi we must respect them. Ofcourse people are not manage the Authority they have from God right, but we respect the position God gave them.
6) We are NOT to obey anything contradict moral living. Yes we dont protest, the judgement comes from God not from us. But we can not support a gay marriage law for example. Not protest against it ,not try to change it, but also to dont be conformed on it.
7) Try to "change the world" is try to stop God from the things already prophesied! Yes he told us that He gave Authorities to men and we are to respect them, but also He told us that they will be more wicked and more wicked until the Wicked-one comes..
8) We are to Pray for Peace and for all who are in Authority,pray for them, obey to them, we stay away from their weicked dark works, but wehen come to the Gospel. ...Yes if you have to choose between Preach the Gospel or die you must choose to Obey God and not men.
(if they tell us tomorrow we dont ahve the right to speak for Jesus,,,then we must brake the law..)

 

[Hekuran]

I want to remind everyone the intention of this thread I started. First, despite a couple of ignorant remarks from 2 members who aired their misconception (and have posted less than 10 times in 10 years as a member on this site), the purpose of this thread is this: discussion. Getting everyone to focus on what God says about politics, morality, ethics. I wanted to get feedback on what people thought about the subject: possibility if one can be both Liberal in views and Christian at the same time.

This is not about "causing division" as those 2 ignorant members said. This is not about judging. This is about intellectual discussions and studies. You know, that's how we grow. Not be being quiet and silent about important matters.

I respect the intention of the thread, but unfortunately the way the question is posed is divisive. Imagine a thread asking, can be Christian and conservative? It's unhelpfully loaded and does not invite constructive discussion.

 

[Quantrill]

:smile: Ok i sympathise you now. Is a government text....
God of this world is Satan my friend! Yes he is ...when they say God, they mean their father...the devil.
i mean that very few will be saved, and "Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution."
(as for the "dream" world yes is from My Father which is in heaven ,not of this world! Thank you for remind me!)

I am not asking for your 'sympathy'. I am showing you how you are mistaken. For you to say they in the Mayflower meant satan, is beyond a mistake. It is lunacy. As I have said, you live in a make believe world.

Quantrill