Do you deny the power of God?

[watchman F]

2nd Timothy 3
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of G...od;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Raised in pentecostal circles I was taught to believe those that had a form of godliness but denied the power thereof of were ceasationalist (those that believe the gifts such as tongues, prophecy, healing, and miracles were no longer avalibe to the believer). They denied to power/gifts of the Spirit. This is not the case

If you read the passage in context these church goers (those who have a form of godliness) were all in sin of some form or the other. They had a form of godliness yet were sinners.

So what power were they denying? The power of God to save!!!

You see Jesus did not come to save us from Hell, He came to save us from sin. Yet 90%+ within the American church would say we can never cease from sin intirely even if we are christians. Not until the resurrection when we will be delivered from our flesh. These are those that deny God's power.

Jude verse 24 says ''God is able to keep you from falling' stumbling/ sinning, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy''. Those that say it is impossible to cease from sin deny this power God has to keep us from sin.

I know many of good God fearing holiness church goers who want to obey Jesus that simply do not accept the truth that we can actually overcome ALL sin here in this life. And many others who simply insinst they can continue to chronically sin with no remorse or repentance because all are sinners, and they are simply forgiven. Both of these groups deny the power of God to deliver us from the bondage of sin.

The truth is God is able to deliver us from ALL and EVERY sin, and any deviation from this truth is denying the power thereof

 

[jari]

If you read the passage in context these church goers (those who have a form of godliness) were all in sin of some form or the other. They had a form of godliness yet were sinners.

all in the church were sinners? can you show me that from the scriptures?

fact is Holy spirit is power many so called sinners have and don't deny..... so your saying they are denying all God's power or just the part to make one Holy?
the scripture only says denying the power... and being filled with Holy spirit is power that many pentecostals/charismatics believe in.

 

[watchman F]

all in the church were sinners? can you show me that from the scriptures?

Not every person in every church is a sinner. I was speaking specifically of those mentioned in the above text

fact is Holy spirit is power many so called sinners have and don't deny..... so your saying they are denying all God's power or just the part to make one Holy?
the scripture only says denying the power... and being filled with Holy spirit is power that many pentecostals/charismatics believe in.

God's power that is being denied in this passage is the power to deliver us from sin.

I am not against pentecostals/charismatics, I too believe in the gifts of the Spirit. I am against those that claim believers in Christ cannot cease from sin

 

[jari]

I think you kind of missed the point in my post.... Still waiting scriptual support for quoted questions

 

[watchman F]

I think you kind of missed the point in my post.... Still waiting scriptual support for quoted questions

You are going to have to rephrase your question. If I didnt answer you already then I do not know what your asking. Anyone that does not believe God can keep us from sin denies His power. Other than that I am not sure what you want tme to say.

A pentecostal that believe God can raise the dead but does not believer He can deliver us from sin is in fact denying the power of God.

As far as scripture goes, I posted it. 2 Tim 3:1-5

 

[watchman F]

I think you kind of missed the point in my post

Apparently....what was your point?

 

[Whitestone]

Do you deny the power of God?

Not me

 

[jari]

You are going to have to rephrase your question. If I didnt answer you already then I do not know what your asking. Anyone that does not believe God can keep us from sin denies His power. Other than that I am not sure what you want tme to say.

A pentecostal that believe God can raise the dead but does not believer He can deliver us from sin is in fact denying the power of God.

As far as scripture goes, I posted it. 2 Tim 3:1-5

I still need to see scripture that all in the church were sinners?

and i was thinking that if they believe in spirit filledness then saying they deny God's power isn't really the case. Because Holy spirit is the power.......

 

[Whitestone]

I still need to see scripture that all in the church were sinners?

and i was thinking that if they believe in spirit filledness then saying they deny God's power isn't really the case. Because Holy spirit is the power.......

I'm tracking with you watchman.

Jari, if you want to see who those sinners were who were "denying the power thereof" you only just need to read the previous verses as watchman indicated earlier. I'll go ahead and provide them for you;

(2Ti 3:2)
For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
(2Ti 3:3)
Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
(2Ti 3:4)
Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
(2Ti 3:5)
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

[faithwarrior]

If someone denies the power of God ..that person will be in a bad position in life

 

[jari]

I'm tracking with you watchman.

Jari, if you want to see who those sinners were who were "denying the power thereof" you only just need to read the previous verses as watchman indicated earlier. I'll go ahead and provide them for you;

i think watchman said that all who had form of godliness were sinners..... in that particular church..

did i understand right?

 

[Whitestone]

i think watchman said that all who had form of godliness were sinners..... in that particular church..

did i understand right?

I'm not sure why this confuses you...

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Are these kind of people in the church sinners?

The point seems clear to me as watchman has shared, that these folks are the one's who "have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof".

Peace

 

[watchman F]

I'm not sure why this confuses you...

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

Are these kind of people in the church sinners?

The point seems clear to me as watchman has shared, that these folks are the one's who "have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof".

Peace

Exactly Whitestone, those that were practicing the sins in the above passage were sinners. The power they and most in the American church today deny is the power of God to deliver us from sin

 

[LLME]

Exactly Whitestone, those that were practicing the sins in the above passage were sinners. The power they and most in the American church today deny is the power of God to deliver us from sin

Ah! I knew I would like this thread.

Yes, that is part of denying the power of God, that we do and can overcome our sins. People defend their sin by saying while we remain in the flesh, we will continue to sin. It is not I, but Him. The churches have become powerless because they deny this very thing.

The error is not understanding this......Christ in us, that is the hope of glory.

 

[watchman F]

ah! I knew i would like this thread.

Yes, that is part of denying the power of god, that we do and can overcome our sins. People defend their sin by saying while we remain in the flesh, we will continue to sin. It is not i, but him. The churches have become powerless because they deny this very thing.

The error is not understanding this......christ in us, that is the hope of glory.

amen!!! Llme

 

[Isaac001]

I have a question for clarity:
Are you saying that a person after receiving Christ has the ability through the Holy Spirit to never sin again, in this life?

 

[Isaac001]

The Bible would be pretty pointless if we aren't delivered from sin and evil somehow... IN THIS LIFE.

And receiving the Holy Spirit of the sinless Jesus Christ is the only way. aka "The Gospel".

Do you no longer sin?

 

[Isaac001]

Thank you for the response, I have another question: Do you still occasionally fall in sin?

 

[LLME]

It seems obvious to sons of God that the doctrine of OSAS is promoted by those who still harbor sin. Which could be because of arrogance against the Holy Spirit, or just plain bad doctrine learned from some branch of theology. In either case, they make themselves look pitiful when attempting to cover their own sins. They make themselves look worse than that when attempting to force scripture to support what they say.
In either case, it is easy to show that Christ is fully able to overcome sin in us, so that we don't die. Sin kills. I hate it. I will never succumb to temptation as long as I keep Christ in me If I were to imagine I could still sin and get away with it, that would be a sure path to destruction, just like in the examples of Korah, Dathan, Abiram, Baalam etc etc. Crucifying the son of man afresh as per the sure Word of the Holy Spirit. But that won't be me And since He promised to never leave nor forsake me and be with me always, I can only simply rejoice in His Promise sworn to me on the oath of His own Name! Righteousness and Life! We praise you Jesus!

Hi Whitestone,

I agree, people tend to downplay sin because they have been told we will always sin while in the flesh. Even when people tell me sin does matter, there remains an underlying assumption that even if they do commit sin after sin after sin, it doesn't matter because they are "already saved".

Do you believe the sinless state is immediate? I am assuming you do, but sanctification does not happen immediately, when we first come to Christ, we barely even know how to walk in Him, but as we continue in Him, we learn to abide and remain there. For some people, it may take decades, depending on their obedience.

 

[faithwarrior]

God is almighty to save.... its by faith... the natural man doesnt understand it