Do you deny the power of God?

[Whitestone]

All this posting and still don't see any mention of "within Himself". Seems to me that you are adding the "within". Can you please post scripture that clearly states your mention of "within Himself"?

HE HIMSELF LIKEWISE PARTOOK OF THE SAME...


Are you saying that you don't know that the sin to be conquered is that which is from "within" a man? Is that your question?

I can only post so much, then hope you would do the footwork to look further into these things as inspired from WITHIN you, with all due respect. Tell me what the scriptures I posted DID say to you maybe?
I'm not trying to be tricky or hiding anything. Nor should you get hung up on words so's to miss the boat of the message I recommend.

Sin comes from within a man.
Jesus conquered sin.
The only place where sin is conquered is where sin exists, which is in a man. Right?
That is why Christ manifested in the flesh, to conquer the sin within a man, Himself being that MAN.
"He Himself Likewise partook of the same flesh..."

You tell ME where the sin exists that Christ overcame if not as explicitly "located" "within man" as scriptures says;

(Mar 7:21)
For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,

(Mar 7:22)
Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness:
(Mar 7:23)
All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.
(Mat 23:25)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

(Mat 23:28)

Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

(2Co 1:9)
yea, we ourselves have had the sentence of death within ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raiseth the dead:

(2Co 5:21)
For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

(Heb 2:18)
For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Did that not happen within Himself? Did He not feel temptation within Himself? Did He not overcome temptation within Himself? Or did it happen on some other planet? What? What??
What is the question here?

How are you and I tempted? We already knows it comes from "within" as scriptures provided earlier as well as above. So also was Jesus tempted the exact same way;

(Jas 1:14) But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

I know that comes from WITHIN ME. And whether you know it or not, your temptations do too. So also did Jesus' temptation. Is this clear enough?
(Heb 4:15)
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Is this true or not? Jesus being tempted IN ALL POINTS AS WE ARE. From WITHIN the heart of man comes all these things we just read.

THAT is where the battle was in him, Where the Battle IS NOW IN US.

The Sin that Jesus became for us, the sin that is within us, the very sin nature within us, is the battle ground where Jesus conquered sin as He walked every day in His flesh, and finally at the last temptation, He overcame.

Regardless of whatever words you find acceptable or not to you, use whatever words or sign language whatever, and ask the Lord what He is saying about this.
(Rev 3:21)
To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Christ overcame Sin Nature within Himself. Not within "somewhere else" lol!

This is the Gospel of Jesus Christ that saves us, by "overcoming" the flesh. aka the devil. Jesus destroyed the devil when He died. If that devil wasn't in Jesus' flesh, then this would be a LIE.

Now YOU tell me where that happened if not in the Body of Christ Himself.

Peace

 

[jiggyfly]

Are you saying that Christ had sin in Himself?

It seems to me that you are stating that Satan and sin are the same and that Satan was within Jesus, is this accurate?

Where in scripture do you see that Jesus destroyed the devil when He died?

 

[David777]

Hello Whitestone.

You did say;

The only place where sin is conquered is where sin exists, which is in a man. Right?


Ephesians 2

1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now
working in the sons of disobedience.

The prince works in the sons of disobedience!

Satan controls our nature in the flesh we follow his
instructions if we live in the flesh.

Sin exists both within our flesh and is also external to man.

In Christ we are a new creation, we live by the dictates of
the Spirit within, Christ within us.

Our flesh is dead because of sin but we live in the Spirit.

Sin is not dead unless we submit to Christ and live in
this new creation. We die daily to ourselves and live
in love in Christ subject to the Holy Spirit.

We have victory because Christ has the victory.
We have life eternal because Christ is life eternal.

 

[Whitestone]

Hello Whitestone.

You did say;

The only place where sin is conquered is where sin exists, which is in a man. Right?


Ephesians 2

1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins,

2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world,
according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now
working in the sons of disobedience.

The prince works in the sons of disobedience!

Satan controls our nature in the flesh we follow his
instructions if we live in the flesh.

Sin exists both within our flesh and is also external to man.

In Christ we are a new creation, we live by the dictates of
the Spirit within, Christ within us.

Our flesh is dead because of sin but we live in the Spirit.

Sin is not dead unless we submit to Christ and live in
this new creation. We die daily to ourselves and live
in love in Christ subject to the Holy Spirit.

We have victory because Christ has the victory.
We have life eternal because Christ is life eternal.

Ephesians is just saying the same thing every thing else is saying.

Mankind in masse is often referred to as the devil, yes. Why? Because there is a place "OUTSIDE OF MAN" where sin exists? Lol, no of course not.

Prince of the power of the air is MOST DEFINETLY the power of sin coming from within me that a "breath out" of my mouth with words of slander, lies, covetousness, cursings, revilings etc etc. "In the air" is descriptive of man who's very existence is dependent upon the air we breathe, from which also lies our power of speech.

Nothing about it does anything except PROVE that it is from within us who this "prince of the power of the air" IS. It is ME of my unsaved carnal flesh.

(Isa 2:22)
Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

That word "breath" is literally "spirit" and is usually translated "spirit".


H5397neshâmâh
nesh-aw-maw'

From
H5395; a puff, that is, wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect or (concretely) an animal: - blast, (that) breath (-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit.

But those in Christ who MEET THE LORD in this "air" or "SPIRIT" Speak the fruit of the spirit; meekness mildness patience faith love longsuffering kindness gentleness etc etc.


(1Th 4:17)
Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Have you been caught up in Christ? Have you met the Lord in your "AIR"? Our Speech will tell... by their fruits ye will know them.

Do we speak as the Prince of the power of the air?
Or
Do we speak the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ having crucified the prince of this world self?

That is the question.

But whether you grasp this or not, it certainly gives no support for sin existing outside of the flesh. That is really a bizarre concept you should know. You will never find such teachings in the O.T. Nor will you find Christ or His disciples stating that sins exist outside of the flesh.

Sin is disobedience. ONLY Man is disobedient.
Period.

Even the carnal mind should be able to grasp that if sin existed somewhere else other than from originating in man, GOD COULD HAVE FOUGHT IT SOMEWHERE ELSE AND OVERCAME IT WITHOUT HAVING TO COME IN THE FLESH FOR ANYTHING!

Peace in Christ

 

[jiggyfly]

No Jesus did not sin, if that is what you are asking me? I'm sure you know that, right?

The word "satan" simply means "Adversary". You can look it up. It is never a proper noun, and should never be capitalized.
It is simply the word "satanos" meaning adversary. You can get a Strong's concordance and study it out. It only means "adversary".

The word "devil" is defined in the scriptures as "sin in the flesh".

That is contained within the scripture out of Hebrews that I've sent you two or three times now, "who" the devil was that Jesus destroyed in His righteous walk and finally on the cross.

A simple way to recognize "who" the "devil" was is by looking at His temptations right after He was Christed with Power after His baptism when He was driven into the wilderness where it said he was "tempted by the devil".

It would be completely non-sense to suggest that the "devil" who tempted Jesus with the three temptations targeting "the lust of his flesh the lust of his eyes and the pride of life" was from SOME OTHER PERSON! That is ridiculous.
It was Christ being tempted by His flesh and blood "JESUS SELF". And CHRIST OVERCAME the temptations of Jesus in His Body.


Whitestone

Let's look at the scriptural account.

1 Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted there by the devil.2 For forty days and forty nights he fasted and became very hungry.
3 During that time the devil came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become loaves of bread.”
4 But Jesus told him, “No! The Scriptures say,


‘People do not live by bread alone,

but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’ ”


5 Then the devil took him to the holy city, Jerusalem, to the highest point of the Temple,6 and said, “If you are the Son of God, jump off! For the Scriptures say,


‘He will order his angels to protect you.

And they will hold you up with their hands

so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.’ ”


7 Jesus responded, “The Scriptures also say, ‘You must not test the Lord your God.’ ”
8 Next the devil took him to the peak of a very high mountain and showed him the kingdoms of the world and all their glory.9 “I will give it all to you,” he said, “if you will kneel down and worship me.”
10 “Get out of here, Satan,” Jesus told him. “For the Scriptures say,


‘You must worship the Lord your God

and serve only him.’ ”


11 Then the devil went away, and angels came and took care of Jesus.
Matt 4:1-11 (NLT)

So from reading the scriptural account, you actually believe that the sin in Jesus' flesh took Him to one of the pinnacles of the temple and asked Him to jump and then when Jesus failed to obey, the sin in His flesh carried Him to a very high mountain and promised Jesus all of the kingdoms He saw if Jesus would bow down to the sin in His flesh and think think otherwise is simply non-sense?

Prayin for you.

 

[Whitestone]

So from reading the scriptural account, you actually believe that the sin in Jesus' flesh took Him to one of the pinnacles of the temple and asked Him to jump and then when Jesus failed to obey, the sin in His flesh carried Him to a very high mountain and promised Jesus all of the kingdoms He saw if Jesus would bow down to the sin in His flesh and think think otherwise is simply non-sense?

Prayin for you.

Well of course lol!

When is the last time you were physically picked up by a devil and transported to the top of a building when you were tempted to jump off it? Do you think Jesus had to literally be sailed through the air by some antigravity slewfoot, up to the top of the building to be tempted to do that? LOL! Do you hear yourself??

When is the last time you were physically transported to the top of a mountain by a devil and offered something to you it wasn't his to give? And what literal mountain in all the earth gives you a view of all the kingdoms of the earth? Are you for real?

Please...

Jesus was tempted in all points as we are. WHEN WERE YOU ever tempted like that?? Use your God given brain! Having faith in something is good. But you are denying that Jesus was tempted in all points as WE ARE by the temptations coming from the sin nature within Jesus! That is a serious departure from scripture and from reason, not to mention superstitious and ridiculous in every way.

I don't blame you for swallowing the teaching that pastors throw out there like they do. But when I began seeing these things, I was intrigued and curious to search out truth. I look for that same quality in others of course. Otherwise we are just mindless followers of "doctrines" without proving it out as you are commanded to do. I challenge you to think on these things a little before responding eh?

Love in Christ, Praying for you
Whitestone

Tell you what, you tell me when you've had a "temptation" by a "supernatural" devil that transported you here and there all over the planet promising things that aren't his to promise, and bring back the photos on your i-phone, and I'll listen. Until then, I thinkf you are just being intentionally dense. Why do other Christians understand this but you hold to silliness?

Think about it, pray about it.
Jesus will show you if you are honest about knowing truth
Peace

 

[David777]

Hello Whitestone.

There are some issues with your theology.

I do believe the scripture quoted below should rectify
your idea that demons as separate entities to man
and that they do not exist in their own right.

Luke 8

27 And when He came out onto the land, He was met by a man from the
city who was possessed with demons; and who had not put on any clothing
for a long time, and was not living in a house, but in the tombs.

28 Seeing Jesus, he cried out and fell before Him, and said in a loud voice,
“What business do we have with each other, Jesus, Son of the Most High God?
I beg You, do not torment me.”

29 For He had commanded the unclean spirit to come out of the man.
For it had seized him many times; and he was bound with chains and shackles
and kept under guard, and yet he would break his bonds and be driven
by the demon into the desert.

30 And Jesus asked him, “What is your name?” And he said, “Legion”;
for many demons had entered him.

31 They were imploring Him not to command them to go away into the abyss.

These verses do impress upon the reader that these 'demons'
did exist beyond a trivial personification of sin.

Whitestone these demons were endowed with insight beyond
which is possible in the human realm. These demons correctly
identified Jesus as "Son of the Most High God". This ability
to know whom Jesus was is referred to as 'revelation' in the Bible,
these demons identified Jesus correctly. They had extraordinary
perception without any mentioned revelation.

The demons on seeing Jesus did identify and then converse
with Jesus. There is further evidence contained in line #27
"a man from the city who was possessed with demons".

Possessed according to the Oxford Dictionary means
"the state of being controlled by a demon or spirit".

It was the demons that were speaking to Jesus, these
demons knew the power and authority that Jesus had.

Humans had not been able to identify Jesus nor did
they understand the divine power and authority of
Jesus the messiah.That is why they were concerned
with the destination that would be assigned to them
by Jesus.

Demons have a unique existence in themselves
Whitestone. This is what the text states, if you resist
the direct witness of the scripture then you will experience
spiritual difficulty.

32 the demons implored Him to permit them to enter the swine.
And He gave them permission.

Again, "permit them to enter the swine", this is impossible
for sin that indwells to perform this transaction.

It is beyond theology and speculation that "demons" exist.
Scripture is not sourced in human origin, just let the text
state the true reality of the super natural. It is not our
place to accept or reject that which we would prefer.

 

[Chad]

First I'd like to point out that I don't like your tone towards my members, so change the tone and attitude. Lose the pride.

Secondly, you are way off in your claims that Jesus had sin in Him. Your theology is undoctrinal.

But you are denying that Jesus was tempted in all points as WE ARE by the temptations coming from the sin nature within Jesus! That is a serious departure from scripture and from reason, not to mention superstitious and ridiculous in every way.

Quote from a GotQuestions.org article

The Bible makes it clear, however, that Jesus Christ, though tempted in every way just as we are (Hebrews 4:15), never committed a sin (2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 John 3:5). The apostle Peter stated it clearly: “He committed no sin and no deceit was found in His mouth” (1 Peter 2:22). Indeed, as Jesus Christ is God, He has no capacity to sin.

 

[Whitestone]

First I'd like to point out that I don't like your tone towards my members, so change the tone and attitude. Lose the pride.

Secondly, you are way off in your claims that Jesus had sin in Him. Your theology is undoctrinal.


Quote from a GotQuestions.org article

I beg your pardon?? You are accusing me of pride because you don't agree with what I share and assert? I think you owe me an apology for that sir.

And I did NOT say that Jesus sinned. We all know he didn't. That is slander toward me to infer that I did.
I said he had the same "sin nature" in Him that we have in us. Someone else used that term so I repeated. And yes he did. I stand by every statement I made and it is pure truth. I'm sorry if you think that is wrong or haughty. I do not speak from pride. I don't appreciate that accusation. I come from the Lord God almighty with this truth. Receive it or not but don't embarras yourself before the Lord with false accusations against me.

I do not speak theology, it is the pure word of God. If you would like to participate I welcome your input or questions and you can be assurred a greater understanding of "who" the devil is we must deal with. You won't find truth from "gotquestions.org". Only from Holy Writ. That is why you don't comprehend what I'm saying perhaps? You must throw away opinions and interpretations and go with pure scriptures. Of course people who present scriptures aren't received from the Lord. Don't believe me! Just here what it is and prove it out from scriptures. Don't throw a website at me at get all holier than though on me, I pray thee. Let's try to keep this Christlike without mudslinging, agreed? If not, pull your gun and shoot and close this account.

Peace in Christ Jesus our Lord

Whitestone

 

[Chad]

You won't find truth from "gotquestions.org"

That's false.

Don't throw a website at me at get all holier than though on me

I was not doing such a thing, it was your attitude/previous post that reflected exactly that. You come off very prideful and arrogant.

I said he had the same "sin nature" in Him that we have in us. Someone else used that term so I repeated. And yes he did.

But He never sinned.

 

[jari]

sin is not just the sinful acts one may commit, sin is in the flesh and by fleshly nature we are unholy and unrighteuss. But God's righteuss that does not come by the law, its is given us through faith and is Christ's rightneusness. this isnt our own doing but the closer we are God the more we experience this. You may resist sins but you are still in flesh nature and only less sinful but never holy in flesh. Only God can make one Holy by Spirit and give to us a new heart.

Paul understood very well what it meant to be righteuss by law. He counted it as loss to receive God's rightneusness.

Php 3:7-9 But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. (8) Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, (9) And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[DutchChristian]

Dear Whitestone,

How are you, peace be with you.

i have trouble with your interpretations on the devil, demons and the supposed devil inside the flesh of Jesus?

Remember Jesus is the perfect sacrifice unblemished Holy Son of God the perfect Lamb of God.

Also you have to know that demons as well as the devil are outside of man they are separate from us, although they can enter into a mans or even animals flesh.

a person who is demon possessed actually has demon(s) residing inside of him, and is not a mental illness. These demons can manifest and be cast out as can be seen in Scripture.

You call of certain things as superstition by doing that you call parts of the Bible superstition, please mind you.

Take care and receive this correction in love and peace in Christ Jesus amen

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

sin is not just the sinful acts one may commit, sin is in the flesh and by fleshly nature we are unholy and unrighteuss. But God's righteuss that does not come by the law, its is given us through faith and is Christ's rightneusness. this isnt our own doing but the closer we are God the more we experience this. You may resist sins but you are still in flesh nature and only less sinful but never holy in flesh. Only God can make one Holy by Spirit and give to us a new heart.

It might be better to say that we resist/starve the "flesh"(carnal natural thinking is an environment that supports ,patronizes,generates and fathers sin).Our imagination is an environment and we are to move our imagination from man's environment into God's.Sin simply never existed in God's environment.
Starve the tree,don't bother pruning it because that's what vine dressers to in order to increase the yield of fruit.
We can make the tree look pretty by removing the "ugly looking" sin that others can see but in reality whatever is not of faith is sin so fear is sin because I am rebelling against God's command to love(fear not).

Less sinful is simply not an option.
Kill the tree by living in an environment that does not support the knowledge of good and evil.

1 Corinthians 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

To me sin is not believing God and the one whom he sent which is rebellion against the divine plan and the Lamb.
I never had a problem with sins that people(except for pride) can see even before I was a believer so if we think we can spot sin in someone else then we are still "in sin" because it takes one to know one.
A sinless one does not know what sin is,it never existed in the Spirit of God so if you see sin then please examine your eye for a log.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

what exactly is sin.
I can only do what I see my father doing.


How do I know what my father is doing?
He has been doing what he tells me to do in his word.
So he loves God(sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your footstool)and he loves his neighbor as himself or he would not tell me to do likewise.
If I don't see my father sinning, I shouldn't even know how.

God is love:
1 Corinthians 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

I don't see sin everywhere I see that my Father believes all things and bears all things,he hopes all things and I think he might even endure us.

 

[SpiritLedEd]

Because of our free will, true believers can occasionally sin. Paul was a true believer when he wrote Ro 7.

SLE