False teacher, prophets and doctrines.. again.

[Brother Paul]

Not a problem....This should get you there, but ignore the link splash screen text, though, it's irreverent to the actual post.

How Do I Put on the Armor of God?

I was busy with my wife earlier today. The reason i asked if you had seen the armor of God . Simply. We Christian will often jump to conclusions that words like Truth, and Righteousness are example of faith. And they are, but they are more than words in the Love of God. Just as Jesus is a...

www.talkjesus.com

Rhema

Thank you. Most enlightening. Especially, since for the first 299+ years Most of the faithful and saved could not read or write.

 

[Brother Paul]

Not a problem....This should get you there, but ignore the link splash screen text, though, it's irreverent to the actual post.

How Do I Put on the Armor of God?

I was busy with my wife earlier today. The reason i asked if you had seen the armor of God . Simply. We Christian will often jump to conclusions that words like Truth, and Righteousness are example of faith. And they are, but they are more than words in the Love of God. Just as Jesus is a...

www.talkjesus.com

Rhema

I meant 200 not 299

 

[Rhema]

the second one is the only one that's left, and that is for OUR advantage.

Again, do you mean the Bible when you say this? (Or something else?) Your posts are still not clear.

OK my bad,

No worries. It happens.

I'm sorry to hear of your obsession with the pledge of allegiance.

It's not an obsession. It's a known and common touchstone to determine an obedience to a command of Christ. You seem to be a flag-waving "'Murican" (my apologies if I'm mistaken).

Another simple command of Jesus is to call no one pastor. Yet what false teaching prevails in the church today?

why can't you stop bitching about it and turn your attention back to Yeshua?

I get the impression that you have a "Yeshua" that is disconnected from the world around you.

Because I don't have to play with fire to know what a burn feels like, sir.

Simplistic and dismissive, because one does need to read a book on nuclear physics to know what a Muon is.

Marxists don't run around burning you.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Thank you. Most enlightening. Especially, since for the first 200+ years Most of the faithful and saved could not read or write.

If I may, Historians have recently recanted this view. The archeologists finally asked the historians why innumerable signs and posters and directions were written if people could not read.

The baker has a sign outside his shop describing today's specials (these are physical objects identified and cataloged by archeologists). Why spend the money if most could not read?

Were most erudite? None but the elite. But the impression given that the masses were illiterate is now understood to be wrong. And most were multilingual. Paul would give direction that his Greek epistles be read to a Roman congregation. They would have known both languages, enough to know that the Sword is prayer.

To be honest, the modifying clause "which is the word of God" is actually written correctly in the King's English, in that the the modifying clause would be attributed to the most recent noun (i.e. the spirit). It's only "Merican" 'glish that has messed this up.

Rhema
(Waiting for the Ebonics translation of the NT.)

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Again, do you mean the Bible when you say this? (Or something else?) Your posts are still not clear.

Bible is just a collection of 66 ancient books, the word that empowers is the Holy Spirit, the third entity of the trinity.

It's not an obsession. It's a known and common touchstone to determine an obedience to a command of Christ. You seem to be a flag-waving "'Murican" (my apologies if I'm mistaken).

Another simple command of Jesus is to call no one pastor. Yet what false teaching prevails in the church today?

Have you not read that God is called YHWH nissi - God my banner? American government and all other governments are ordained by God to punish the evil and protect the good, to keep society in order, that was God's design. However, when a government fails to function properly, when it begins to punish the good and protect the evil, then we're called to obey God rather than man. " 'murica" is but a chosen vessel of God, a believer's allegiance is always pledged to God, for He is the creator of all things.

I get the impression that you have a "Yeshua" that is disconnected from the world around you.

And I get the impression that you can't get your mind out of the gutter of those filthy politics. If that's the "world around me" which I'm disconnected from, then I'm guilty as charged, and I'm grateful for that, for Yeshua brought me out.

Simplistic and dismissive, because one does need to read a book on nuclear physics to know what a Muon is.

Marxists don't run around burning you.

Rhema

No thanks, I'm here to talk Yeshua, not Marx.

 

[Brother Paul]

If I may, Historians have recently recanted this view. The archeologists finally asked the historians why innumerable signs and posters and directions were written if people could not read.

The baker has a sign outside his shop describing today's specials (these are physical objects identified and cataloged by archeologists). Why spend the money if most could not read?

Were most erudite? None but the elite. But the impression given that the masses were illiterate is now understood to be wrong. And most were multilingual. Paul would give direction that his Greek epistles be read to a Roman congregation. They would have known both languages, enough to know that the Sword is prayer.

To be honest, the modifying clause "which is the word of God" is actually written correctly in the King's English, in that the the modifying clause would be attributed to the most recent noun (i.e. the spirit). It's only "Merican" 'glish that has messed this up.

Rhema
(Waiting for the Ebonics translation of the NT.)

Very interesting and I will look into it through a friend who is a Greek Scholar. I love to kearn and line

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings @Jonathan_Gale AND @Rhema and anyone else involved(?) or interested/reading along this thread

Eph. 6:17 clearly states that the sword of the Spirit is the word of God.

may I propose that it is, or can be, in how one reads something?
for example, (if) the Spirit is the word of God, that therefore is the sword.
the Sword being 'knowledge of and use of' the Spirit being the word of God. (not the best wording from me)

please don't shoot me if disagreeing, as I am allergic to having holes in me BUT by all means sharpen me up if you have the sharpening iron about (in) you. We can all learn something from each other, either directly or not, so please show each other the courtesy of the Grace shown unto you in your interactions. Even if one writes something that leaves us feeling this or that, that can be a good thing to notice about ourselves and our constant need before the Lord for His continued mercy and kindness. Be gentle with me, i am still learning and fully admit that i do not know everything but also that i have that hope given to me from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Let us rejoice in the hope set before us and continue the race without using others to step on. If anyone wants to step on another, please use me as a stepping stone but remember that permission is needed from all others in order to to use them.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Greetings @Jonathan_Gale AND @Rhema and anyone else involved(?) or interested/reading along this thread



may I propose that it is, or can be, in how one reads something?
for example, (if) the Spirit is the word of God, that therefore is the sword.
the Sword being 'knowledge of and use of' the Spirit being the word of God. (not the best wording from me)

please don't shoot me if disagreeing, as I am allergic to having holes in me BUT by all means sharpen me up if you have the sharpening iron about (in) you. We can all learn something from each other, either directly or not, so please show each other the courtesy of the Grace shown unto you in your interactions. Even if one writes something that leaves us feeling this or that, that can be a good thing to notice about ourselves and our constant need before the Lord for His continued mercy and kindness. Be gentle with me, i am still learning and fully admit that i do not know everything but also that i have that hope given to me from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Let us rejoice in the hope set before us and continue the race without using others to step on. If anyone wants to step on another, please use me as a stepping stone but remember that permission is needed from all others in order to to use them.

Jesus is the Lord


Bless you ....><>

Bless you, sir. It's just really frustrating that we can't agree on a simple principle, that the bible is consistent. If you've got a verse very hard to understand, then use another verse to interpret it, seek and you'll find, the Holy Spirit will guide you. In this case, regarding the word of God, go to Acts 7:54, Hebrews 4:12, and Rev. 1:16 and 19:13 where the Word goes out of the Lord's mouth like a sword. Instead of making it more complicated by rendering these as more kinds of "word of God", I'd rather think of them as the same word that convicts of sins.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

thank you or your reply,

regarding the following, in light of conversation that has flowed under the bridge...

as the same word that convicts of sins.

is it the Sword that convicts of sins or the Spirit?

in Love with Christ as Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[Brother Paul]

Bless you, sir. It's just really frustrating that we can't agree on a simple principle, that the bible is consistent. If you've got a verse very hard to understand, then use another verse to interpret it, seek and you'll find, the Holy Spirit will guide you. In this case, regarding the word of God, go to Acts 7:54, Hebrews 4:12, and Rev. 1:16 and 19:13 where the Word goes out of the Lord's mouth like a sword. Instead of making it more complicated by rendering these as more kinds of "word of God", I'd rather think of them as the same word that convicts of sins.

Plus in His temptations He quotes Deuteronomy to defeat the Devils twist.

 

[Waggles]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Ephesians 6:17 And receive the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God’s word:

Makes sense that the word of God is likened unto a sword - defensive against false doctrines, and also offensive in preaching the gospel.

A good and faithful servant needs both the Word of God and the Holy Spirit - and the Spirit of God teaches a disciple through the word of God.

 

[Rhema]

may I propose that it is, or can be, in how one reads something?
for example, (if) the Spirit is the word of God, that therefore is the sword.
the Sword being 'knowledge of and use of' the Spirit being the word of God. (not the best wording from me)

Hi @Br. Bear,

I'm fairly confident that the post in my link explains things rather concisely. One is to TAKE the SWORD by means of all Prayer. While the SWORD is PRAYER, it is, after all, the Sword of the Spirit, since it is the Spirit that give us utterance....

(Acts 2:4 KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

As the Greek text reads, though, it is the SPIRIT that is the WORD of God (not the SWORD), so there's no need to "interpret" this verse by any other verse. The LOGOS(word) of God is different than the RHEMA(word) of God, and the SPIRIT is the RHEMA of God.

A concern that I have had spanning decades is the misunderstanding of the English translations of this verse so that people go about waving their Bible as the SWORD, when the text clearly says that the SWORD is prayer. I brought it up in this thread, since the OP concerns false teachings. Nearly 50 years ago when I decided to let the Greek texts resolve any questions I may have, I have found numerous "glitches" like this. If the New Testament texts speak of RHEMA and then of LOGOS, if both are translated into a single English word, then we have confusion from the fusing of these two separate concepts as a result of bad translation. One just cannot see this in English, since the same English word is used to represent two different Greek concepts.

At this point I don't believe that @Jonathan_Gale and I are in disagreement. It would seem that he I just arrived at the same understanding, but by different means. I've learned by reading the Greek directly as it is written.

Kindly,
Rhema

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

Hi @Br. Bear,

I'm fairly confident that the post in my link explains things rather concisely. One is to TAKE the SWORD by means of all Prayer. While the SWORD is PRAYER, it is, after all, the Sword of the Spirit, since it is the Spirit that give us utterance....

(Acts 2:4 KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

As the Greek text reads, though, it is the SPIRIT that is the WORD of God (not the SWORD), so there's no need to "interpret" this verse by any other verse. The LOGOS(word) of God is different than the RHEMA(word) of God, and the SPIRIT is the RHEMA of God.

A concern that I have had spanning decades is the misunderstanding of the English translations of this verse so that people go about waving their Bible as the SWORD, when the text clearly says that the SWORD is prayer. I brought it up in this thread, since the OP concerns false teachings. Nearly 50 years ago when I decided to let the Greek texts resolve any questions I may have, I have found numerous "glitches" like this. If the New Testament texts speak of RHEMA and then of LOGOS, if both are translated into a single English word, then we have confusion from the fusing of these two separate concepts as a result of bad translation. One just cannot see this in English, since the same English word is used to represent two different Greek concepts.

At this point I don't believe that @Jonathan_Gale and I are in disagreement. It would seem that he I just arrived at the same understanding, but by different means. I've learned by reading the Greek directly as it is written.

Kindly,
Rhema

If it's prayer, why not just say prayer? Why confuse it with the sword of the spirit? That spirit has a duty, which is very clearly and solemnly defined in John 16:8-11:

And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: of sin, because they do not believe in Me; of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

 

[Br. Bear]

@Rhema

Greetings Brother,

thank you for your reply.
(and further explanation of what you have been attempting to help others see)

So, do you/we think that the regurgitating of the error is something that perhaps has been done in ignorance? [by the many and most]

English is a pesky language/tongue if we take the most trodden road, and then there is still potential for confusion, given the many words we use that have at least double meanings.
I have been meaning to post a video with some [humorous] examples of trying to work out how it all fits together using the words we do.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

@Rhema

Greetings once more,

in the Post by Member Waggles @Waggles we have two uses of the word 'word' in Hebrews 4:12 and Ephesians 6:17

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Ephesians 6:17 And receive the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God’s word:

Makes sense that the word of God is likened unto a sword - defensive against false doctrines, and also offensive in preaching the gospel.

A good and faithful servant needs both the Word of God and the Holy Spirit - and the Spirit of God teaches a disciple through the word of God.

given that you abound in kindness, can you please help explain the seeming contradiction (of what you have thus far shared about it) as while some might see it clearly, it does, or can, cause some confusion , especially when plonked in a reply like the one we have here.... It "makes sense ...."


Bless you ....><>

 

[Waggles]

Ephesians 6:13 Wherefore take up the whole armour of God, that ye be able to withstand in the evil day, and, having done all thoroughly, to stand.
14 Stand therefore, having girded your loin with truth, and put on the breastplate of righteousness,
15 and shod your feet with preparation of the gospel of peace;
16 in all things taking up the shield of the faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the evil one.
17 And receive the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is God’s word:
18 with all prayer and supplication praying at every season in the Spirit, [tongues] and watching thereunto in all perseverance and supplication for all the saints,
19 and on my behalf, that utterance be given me in opening my mouth with boldness to make known the mystery of the gospel,
20 for which I am ambassador in a chain; that in it I may be bold, as I ought to speak.

It makes sense that the sword of the Spirit is both speaking the gospel and praying in tongues for these are truly the two witnesses to God and salvation.
The Holy Spirit AND the word of God are both necessary to endure as a good and faithful servant.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

It makes sense that the sword of the Spirit is both speaking the gospel and praying in tongues for these are truly the two witnesses to God and salvation.
The Holy Spirit AND the word of God are both necessary to endure as a good and faithful servant.

I was taught that there are five pieces of the armor plus the sword of the Spirit as the weapon; on top of those is the prayer, being the seventh, which completes the set, for seven is the number of completion.

 

[Waggles]

for seven is the number of completion.

NO - 7 is perfection and the seal of God -
the original languages of the scriptures Hebrew and Greek use letters of their alphabet for arithmetic values.
Thus the word of God is sealed from false gospels and apocrypha.
It is one of the reasons that Bible scholars know with certainty that Mark 16:15-20 is genuine.
The number 9 is the number of completion or wholeness - thus we have 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit and 9 qualities that manifest the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
There are excellent books on Number In Scripture and on Bible Numerics.

 

[Jonathan_Gale]

NO - 7 is perfection and the seal of God -
the original languages of the scriptures Hebrew and Greek use letters of their alphabet for arithmetic values.
Thus the word of God is sealed from false gospels and apocrypha.
It is one of the reasons that Bible scholars know with certainty that Mark 16:15-20 is genuine.
The number 9 is the number of completion or wholeness - thus we have 9 gifts of the Holy Spirit and 9 qualities that manifest the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
There are excellent books on Number In Scripture and on Bible Numerics.

Alright, then perfection. Nevertheless the full armor of God is completed with prayer of supplication/petition.

 

[Rhema]

If it's prayer, why not just say prayer? Why confuse it with the sword of the spirit?

That's my point, Mr. Gale. IT DOES SAY PRAYER. There's no confusion when one reads it in Greek. The grammatical principle of gender matching for noun and modifier clearly stipulates that the PNEUMA (spirit) is the RHEMA (word) of God, not the BIBLOS (Bible). Neither the word GRAPHOS or BIBLOS are used anywhere. When the modifying clauses are parsed out, the text literally reads, TAKE YE THE SWORD BY MEANS OF ALL PRAYER, PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT.

(My slight apologies, in that I'm not shouting, I'm using capital letters for Greek words and their English equivalents when necessary. Then again, I guess I was being a bit emphatic in my second sentence.)

But one might just as well ask why confuse anything with a metaphor of "armor"? Why just not list the elements of salvation, righteousness, truth, et. al. and be done with it?

It's interesting to note, though, that in the metaphor, everything is defensive, with only prayer remaining as offensive. (Ahhh... I see you understand this.)

That spirit has a duty, which is very clearly and solemnly defined in John 16:8-11:

And limited? This thing you call "spirit" is only limited to your definition from John 16?

What about John 14?

(John 14:26 KJV) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.​

And the Holy Spirit certainly did other things, like give utterance to tongues.

(Acts 2:4 KJV) And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.​

What of direction? Does not the Spirit give direction as well?

(Acts 8:29 KJV) Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.​

(Acts 16:6 KJV) Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,​

(The implications of the Holy Spirit forbidding the word to be preached is staggering.)

I have had the Holy Spirit speak to me on more than several occasions. It is both terrifying and wonderful.

At this point, Mr. Gale, I'm going to risk an assumption, and perhaps even risk being banned. It would seem to me that you haven't had much interaction with the Pentecostal branch of the Christian Church? Go say hi to a few fellow Pentecostal brethren (the ones that aren't completely insane, of course).

May His Love abound,
Rhema

I was taught that there are five pieces of the armor plus the sword of the Spirit as the weapon; on top of those is the prayer, being the seventh, which completes the set, for seven is the number of completion.

First, I am not a fan of numerology. it smacks of astrology and witchcraft. But....

Within the metaphor (as stated above) the Sword, (as the weapon) IS prayer. It's not an addition.

Eph. 6:17-18) και (AND) την (THE) περικεφαλαιαν (HELMET) του (OF) σωτηριου (SALVATION) δεξασθε (TAKE YE) και (AND) την (THE) μαχαιραν (SWORD) [....] δια (BY MEANS OF / "via") πασης (ALL) προσευχης (PRAYER) ...​