Hell for non-followers of Christ?

[El Hombre viejo]

Hi:
Take a look at verse 13. Wandering stars for which is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

The book of Jude is short, but says much. It basically to me shows how grace was turned upside down and grace was abused and you could do what you want.....grace covered it all. And it warns against false teachers and so on and how they tell you grace allows you to sin.

Then very subtle says....and the darkness has been reserved for such forever. Verse 14 speaks of the coming of Christ. Verse 15 speaks of the judgment.

So for those judged hell the darkness is forever. To me forever as spoken forever is not you are punished and your second death upon death is the meaning of gone forever. To me in the way I understand the Bible in its entire meaning, forever is forever and everlasting and with no end in hell.

I am not going there. No, No......whatever it takes which is little, just obey and be good. I will do.

I know I do not understand it all, but I also know God knows this and judges us from our heart.

Anyways that is where I see this , it is a small hint, but says much.

Kit

LOL Right!! Don't go there!!

But still...the verse is not talking about hell, its talking about those who follow hellish ways and will go there if they don't repent. Read the entire thing in context

 

[Kit Carson]

LOL Right!! Don't go there!!

But still...the verse is not talking about hell, its talking about those who follow hellish ways and will go there if they don't repent. Read the entire thing in context

Does it not speak of the result if you do not repent. That you will be forever in darkness.

I have already been wrong once this week, If I am wrong again I will have to go sit in the corner.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Does it not speak of the result if you do not repent. That you will be forever in darkness.

I have already been wrong once this week, If I am wrong again I will have to go sit in the corner.

I mentioned the repent part because as long as peope are alive they have to chance to repent and turn to JESUS Once they pass go its off to the hot house though Asbestos water skis and all

 

[Fraction]

What you believe is irrelevant. It's what GOD's WORD says that counts.

1. What I believe or how I interpret scripture would be relevant to the subject.
2. Christianity is based off of beliefs and faith. It is NOT based off of fact, simply because we cannot prove anything the bible says.
3. If personal beliefs and interpretations are not important or "irrelevant", Christianity would be as well.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

1. What I believe or how I interpret scripture would be relevant to the subject.
2. Christianity is based off of beliefs and faith. It is NOT based off of fact, simply because we cannot prove anything the bible says.
3. If personal beliefs and interpretations are not important or "irrelevant", Christianity would be as well.

Did you actually say that?!

What you believe is valid if it lines up with GOD's WORD.
Christianity is based on GOD's WORD. Nothing more. Belief in HIS Word. Faith in HIS WORD. Since GOD said it, it does not need proving. It is THE TRUTH. It is LIGHT
Personal beliefs must line up with GOD's WORD or there is no basis for Christianity, simply because we would not be followers of JESUS

You sound like the fellow who jumped out of the airplane at ten thousand feet with no parachute. He kept saying he would be just fine because he didn't believe in gravity.

 

[Fraction]

Did you actually say that?!

What you believe is valid if it lines up with GOD's WORD.
Christianity is based on GOD's WORD. Nothing more. Belief in HIS Word. Faith in HIS WORD. Since GOD said it, it does not need proving. It is THE TRUTH. It is LIGHT
Personal beliefs must line up with GOD's WORD or there is no basis for Christianity, simply because we would not be followers of JESUS

You sound like the fellow who jumped out of the airplane at ten thousand feet with no parachute. He kept saying he would be just fine because he didn't believe in gravity.

A post opening with an "obvious question", this can't be good.

I don't have much to say to this seeing as it's kind of a random response. I am pretty sure you took my reply a little too serious and got a little heated.

Don't worry, I obtained my belief from biblical text. You can calm down now.

 

[judge not]

18 Pages David. Some well thought out stuff, some not so good.

I brought the worms in last time. I brought those with Satan in hell, speaking to him. I brought up punishment.

I guess if one does not wish to believe in eternal torment, then one certainly will find a way to do so.

I have to stay consistent, to my knowledge which is limited of course.
No Aionious Hell, no Anioious Life. (As simple as I can get)

One could say hell is forever and real, but no eternal consequence of punishment. Problem is, It's Aionious punishment, and correct in the simple English understanding without the Greek. We can't loose a Greek Noun because we don't like it.

I explained the Word destruction........ worms.......

Not much else to do here.

My hope is for those that do not believe in eternal punishment, had every possible topic covered for them here on Talk Jesus.

and for those that do believe in Eternal Punishment, (Like Me) also have all the information possible.

Please continue David777, you reason, and your post show you do consider what the Word says, and your willing to make changes if needed, for that in itself is precious.

I need a break from "Hell"

God bless.

Jesus Is Lord.

Forget about the worms and unquenchable fire-they don't apply to everlasting suffering

 

[Brother Mike]

No worms in here Jim.......

judge not

Forget about the worms and unquenchable fire-they don't apply to everlasting suffering

Just forget, Thanks, what was I even thinking? :bored:

Just to be on the safe side though, could you give me the scriptures in accordance to mine so that I can see it more clearly?

Thanx......

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[judge not]

judge not


Just forget, Thanks, what was I even thinking? :bored:

Just to be on the safe side though, could you give me the scriptures in accordance to mine so that I can see it more clearly?

Thanx......

Jesus Is Lord.

As much as some people would like to see the bad guys rolling around in pain and tortured by flames for billions and billions of years unending, God doesn't work that way- He just destroys and obliterates evil
Remember that Jesus spoke of " unquenchable fire " It's not a fire that burns and burns but consumes nothing. It is " unquenchable " because it burns until there is nothing else it can consume. these phrases speak of utter destruction, not of everlasting pain.
The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah-Gen:19 serves as an example of this kind of all-consuming fire. they " are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE" Jude 7. Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? NO! " Eternal or unquenchable fire then is a fire that cannot be put out or quenched-it burns only until there is nothing left to burn.
In Isaiah 66-..." for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched ......"
This is about the future day of the Lord, which is the day He will pour out His wrath on the wicked, Their dead carcasses will be heaped and strewn into pits like the Valley of Hinnom and set ablaze-the fires will keep burning and the worms will keep feeding until there is nothing left for the fires or the worms.
Jesus did not rely on Babylonianized and Hellenized interpretations of the rabbis about afterlife. they were exposed to too much pagan
tradition over the past centuries of time.
Jesus used used the language of the prophets when He spoke of the fate of the wicked.
In 2Peter 2:9-" The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished" -if their punishment takes place in the Day of Judgment then it's logic to follow that they have yet to be punished.

 

[Brother Mike]

Water.

Electricity, and liquid follow the lest path of resistance.

So, How these worms that never die survive that fire that is not quenched?

ETERNAL FIRE" Jude 7. Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? NO! " Eternal or unquenchable fire then is a fire that cannot be put out or quenched-it burns only until there is nothing left to burn.

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The whole context is not buildings and stone that where burned, it's the people that lived there. Being put in the same place, designed for the devil and his angles. Nothing is mentioned in Jude about the actual burning of physical building, but what Jesus mentioned, the people where cast DOWN into Hell.

Why is repeated concepts so Hard to Grasp?


Mat 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Those in Sodom, are still awaiting the final judgement!!! What was Jude talking about? The buildings sinned?

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Hell is the place reserved for the Wicked until judgement....... Peter said the cities where turned to ashes, Jude talked about Eternal suffering with fire........... The people!!! like Jesus mentioned brought down to hell, the People!! Who cares about buildings??

Jude like Jesus was talking about where the devil and his angels are at, hell, SUFFERING eternal fire. Sodom reserved for the Day of Judgement.

Peter Talked about the city itself. It burned to ashes.

Judge Not, you said because the buildings are no longer on fire, then Suffering, eternal fire is what??? Just a short bit of suffering? That is where you get your conclusion about Eternal suffering? Really?

Peter said the city went to ashes, (No more fire) Jude said Sodom will suffer Eternal fire........

So, According to your explanation, the Holy Spirit sure got confused when giving the Word of God, Telling us about Sodom, when we are told one went to ashes, and one has Eternal suffering by fire, reserved unto the day of judgement. (Both meaning what? buildings?, People?)

You are an amazing Person Judge Not... I don't have that kind of imagination.


Jesus is Lord.

 

[brakelite]

So where is the justice of God who has people burning now in hell but are not yet judged?

 

[Brother Mike]

Hell.

The bible says Reserved for Judgement.

Hell is located in the center of the Earth.
Abraham even went to Hell, being separated from the flame, in Paradise, or Abraham's bosom, seeing the rich man across the gulf in torment.



Justice? Choose death, or Choose Life. The judgement is of our own choice. Man is appointed to die once, then judgement. What we have already chosen in life, sets our judgement. This is our own Judgement. Jesus is the way, truth, and life. Jesus came to give us Life. What we choose in life determines our own fate. Nothing God did, nothing God judged. God told us to choose life.

God's Judgement, the books are opened, and everyone hears an account of what they did. This is God's judgement.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Joh 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1Pe 3:18 For Christ [the Messiah Himself] died for sins once [6] for all, the Righteous for the unrighteous (the Just for the unjust, the Innocent for the guilty), that He might bring us to God. In His human body He was put to death, but He was made alive in the spirit,
1Pe 3:19 In which He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Jesus was sent to Hell:
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Act 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Psa 16:10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

David Knew that Once Jesus came, he would be freed from Hell, or the place Abraham was.

Psa 86:13 For great is thy mercy toward me: and thou hast delivered my soul from the lowest hell.

Jesus went to Hell, being made an alive Spirit, and preached to the other spirits. Man is soul, body and spirit. spirits just don't die or go up in a puff of smoke.

1Pe 3:19 In which He went and preached to the spirits in prison,

Everything done in the realm of the spirit is a image of what we do on earth today. God put the rulers in place, and even many are in Earthly Jails, being held against their will, though they have yet to also be judged, or found guilty.



Jesus Is Lord.

 

[judge not]

Electricity, and liquid follow the lest path of resistance.

So, How these worms that never die survive that fire that is not quenched?

Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

The whole context is not buildings and stone that where burned, it's the people that lived there. Being put in the same place, designed for the devil and his angles. Nothing is mentioned in Jude about the actual burning of physical building, but what Jesus mentioned, the people where cast DOWN into Hell.

Why is repeated concepts so Hard to Grasp?


Mat 11:22 But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you.
Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
Mat 11:24 But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Those in Sodom, are still awaiting the final judgement!!! What was Jude talking about? The buildings sinned?

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;
2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Hell is the place reserved for the Wicked until judgement....... Peter said the cities where turned to ashes, Jude talked about Eternal suffering with fire........... The people!!! like Jesus mentioned brought down to hell, the People!! Who cares about buildings??

Jude like Jesus was talking about where the devil and his angels are at, hell, SUFFERING eternal fire. Sodom reserved for the Day of Judgement.

Peter Talked about the city itself. It burned to ashes.

Judge Not, you said because the buildings are no longer on fire, then Suffering, eternal fire is what??? Just a short bit of suffering? That is where you get your conclusion about Eternal suffering? Really?

Peter said the city went to ashes, (No more fire) Jude said Sodom will suffer Eternal fire........

So, According to your explanation, the Holy Spirit sure got confused when giving the Word of God, Telling us about Sodom, when we are told one went to ashes, and one has Eternal suffering by fire, reserved unto the day of judgement. (Both meaning what? buildings?, People?)

You are an amazing Person Judge Not... I don't have that kind of imagination.


Jesus is Lord.

Thanks for the compliment-but I like to call it insight not imagination,
2Peter 2:9-is used to teach the continous suffering of the wicked in many churches. Did Peter really mean that the souls of the unrighteous dead are consciously suffering in a place of punishment-clearly No!
In context, Peter relates examples of how God, in times past, delivered the righteous from temptations and of how He punished the unrighteous- eg Noah and the flood. The verse simply means that the unrighteous are always subject to divine judgment and examples like Sodom & Gom show how God has, throughout history kept the unrighteous under punishment for the Day of Judgment. Peter speaks of divine retribution in history, not in some sort of " afterlife "
Jesus stated that in the end of this world (age) the wicked then will be cast into " a furnace of fire " Matt 13: 40-42
Jesus talked about the fate of the wicked in the future-"the judgment of Gehenna " The Bible doesn't teach there is a temporary hell with sinners waiting to be reunited with their bodies and then tossed into lake of fire-some believe that.
To Paul and Peter hell, the grave (hades ) was not a place of conscious existence, but of sleep(no thoughts, no memories) 1 Cor15:51-55
like you said it's time to move on from the hell concept

 

[Brother Mike]

Can't say your not trying....

Thank you Judge Not. I certainly can say that you do seem to be trying. Same arguments though I have as others have been answering for years.

Peter was truly talking about God Judging. So was Jude.

Your issue Judge not is your missing concepts, as I stated, Water flows in the Path of least resistance.

Peter said everything went to ashes..... It truly did. Including the people.
Jesus said those in Sodom will be judged, Jude said they will Suffer the vengeance of Eternal fire. If one is dead and unconscious, there is no suffering, no judgement, nothing.

Your analogy was since the buildings and everyone burned, defined what Eternal meant since they are no longer burning........ back up, they are still getting judged, it's not over. That means they are conscience and very much aware somewhere.

Hell as I stated above is a place reserved for judgement, People are spirits, spirits just don't sleep, or burn up and go away.

When Looking at the Word as a Whole, not taking separate scriptures trying to make them mean something, what do we see?

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Sleep to you means......

The Bible doesn't teach there is a temporary hell with sinners waiting to be reunited with their bodies and then tossed into lake of fire-some believe that.
To Paul and Peter hell, the grave (hades ) was not a place of conscious existence, but of sleep(no thoughts, no memories) 1 Cor15:51-55

The bible certainly does teach we go to the same place designed for Satan and his spirits, we also being a spirit, having a body and soul.

Sleep means to have no thoughts, no memories................ once again, we compare scriptures.

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Dead.......... Nothing about not being aware, or not having memories. Just dead.

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
Dead......

I will spare you the many other examples...........

What is dead? What gets resurrected? What stays on earth?

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

The body came from the earth, it returns to the earth, the spirit which our body houses does not die!!! It's who we are, spirits, just like Satan is a spirit.

Our body is resurrected, and given a new body, just like Jesus, We shall not all be dead, but when the Lord returns we shall be changed.

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Spirits do not sleep, are never unconscious, it's the body of man that dies, sown in corruption, but raised again. We are spirits, we have a body, once the body dies, we no longer have part or anything to do with this world again.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit (pneuma
) is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


I'll stop here................... If you can't see it, then I believe the Lord can show you......... We have a body, Spirit, and soul......... God made us, in his image, he sent our spirit into a body. Our soul, (Mind, will, emotions) get changed and renewed.

Without our spirit, the body dies, or if the earthly vessel we have is in bad shape, and can no longer sustain us, our spirit. Our spirit never dies, never can be killed, it is really eternal.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit (pneuma) is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

the same Greek word used for demonic spirit, is used for our own spirit.

Find me one scripture where our spirit can be killed, sleeps, or snuffed out. I certainly would like to know where that scripture is at.

Danial 12:1-4................. Physical body, the concept of "Soul Sleep" is for new age believers, not us Christians.

Jesus said fear the one that is able to destroy both Body and soul in Hell.......... everyone will be reunited with their body, and judged according to their works in the flesh.

Jesus is Lord.

 

[jari]

hi all

hell is lake of fire that's at the end of the world, according to Book of Rev so all other descriptions are either Parables or otherwise figurative speech.

before that dead wait for "resurrection"

Where does evil and good people go before this resurrection? Answer: Same place. "they go to the dead."

Ecclesiastes 9:3
This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

What does the dead think? Answer: Nothing. "the dead know not any thing"

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.​

 

[judge not]

Thank you Judge Not. I certainly can say that you do seem to be trying. Same arguments though I have as others have been answering for years.

Peter was truly talking about God Judging. So was Jude.

Your issue Judge not is your missing concepts, as I stated, Water flows in the Path of least resistance.

Peter said everything went to ashes..... It truly did. Including the people.
Jesus said those in Sodom will be judged, Jude said they will Suffer the vengeance of Eternal fire. If one is dead and unconscious, there is no suffering, no judgement, nothing.

Your analogy was since the buildings and everyone burned, defined what Eternal meant since they are no longer burning........ back up, they are still getting judged, it's not over. That means they are conscience and very much aware somewhere.

Hell as I stated above is a place reserved for judgement, People are spirits, spirits just don't sleep, or burn up and go away.

When Looking at the Word as a Whole, not taking separate scriptures trying to make them mean something, what do we see?

1Co 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Sleep to you means......
The bible certainly does teach we go to the same place designed for Satan and his spirits, we also being a spirit, having a body and soul.

Sleep means to have no thoughts, no memories................ once again, we compare scriptures.

Act 7:60 And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Dead.......... Nothing about not being aware, or not having memories. Just dead.

1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
Dead......

I will spare you the many other examples...........

What is dead? What gets resurrected? What stays on earth?

1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

The body came from the earth, it returns to the earth, the spirit which our body houses does not die!!! It's who we are, spirits, just like Satan is a spirit.

Our body is resurrected, and given a new body, just like Jesus, We shall not all be dead, but when the Lord returns we shall be changed.

Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Pro 20:27 The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

Ecc 3:21 Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

Spirits do not sleep, are never unconscious, it's the body of man that dies, sown in corruption, but raised again. We are spirits, we have a body, once the body dies, we no longer have part or anything to do with this world again.

1Co 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit (pneuma
) is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


I'll stop here................... If you can't see it, then I believe the Lord can show you......... We have a body, Spirit, and soul......... God made us, in his image, he sent our spirit into a body. Our soul, (Mind, will, emotions) get changed and renewed.

Without our spirit, the body dies, or if the earthly vessel we have is in bad shape, and can no longer sustain us, our spirit. Our spirit never dies, never can be killed, it is really eternal.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit (pneuma) is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

the same Greek word used for demonic spirit, is used for our own spirit.

Find me one scripture where our spirit can be killed, sleeps, or snuffed out. I certainly would like to know where that scripture is at.

Danial 12:1-4................. Physical body, the concept of "Soul Sleep" is for new age believers, not us Christians.

Jesus said fear the one that is able to destroy both Body and soul in Hell.......... everyone will be reunited with their body, and judged according to their works in the flesh.

Jesus is Lord.

Brother Mike:
Ezekiel 18:4 - the soul that sins shall die
Isaiah53:12 - prediction that the Messiah would pour out " His soul to death"
Psalm89:48 - what man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of sheol(grave)
You're underestimating Gods' power to destroy the spirit, a soul, something he created. He says He can-you say He can't.
Daniel 12:2-and many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt
In 1Cor15-it shows that at the time of the resurrection we that are saved but asleep(dead) will then gain immortality and those that are alive will be changed instantly into immortality-seems clear enough.
1Thess4:15 refers to the dead as being " asleep "
The sleep of death-Psalm13:3
Psalm146:4-when his(man's)breath departs he returns to his earthn that very day his plans(thoughts) perish
Immortality is a gift that God gives-it is not possessed inherently by humans.

 

[Brother Mike]

The dead.

Judge Not....... I understand all those scriptures, Paul spoke of our physical body being sown in corruption. The physical body dies, no more brain activity, The Dead know nothing new under the sun.... Earth.

But Paul also spoke of a Heavenly body. Our spirit is sent into our mortal bodies. I assume at birth. The dead have their bodies brought back, in corruption, we uncorrupted. You and I get a new Body, but to cloth what?

Our spirit. It's our spirit that can not be killed. I have seen all the scriptures about body and soul destroyed in Hell. Certainly It will be but It will be destroyed as in non-Usable.

I have given you many scriptures to tell you we are spirits, Like God, in his image. So brother, we need some scriptures that describe the destruction of our spirit.

If we are really going to invalidate Hell. Tell people they don't have to be concerned about some eternal punishment, we need to make very sure Hell is not actually punishment and torment.

We have to do something with the spirit of man, we got body, we got some soul, but we need spirit. Sounds like a song.

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

The Greek used here is Aion Aion it denotes age without end, but even in that these men are tormented day and night.

Put all the scriptures together brother........Check it out before you tell people that Eternal torment is not real... find where the spirit is killed or dead, or can even be killed.

We are all here to learn.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

The Greek used here is Aion Aion it denotes age without end, but even in that these men are tormented day and night.

Are there night and day cycles in the eternal flame?
Day and night cycles leads me to believe this is referring to this world.
There is no time in the Spirit so there are no cycles.
The Lamb will be the new light and there will be no need for the sun or moon.In the world to come there is only the Day,the Day of the Lord and Lamb,Jesus Christ.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Are there night and day cycles in the eternal flame?
Day and night cycles leads me to believe this is referring to this world.
There is no time in the Spirit so there are no cycles.
The Lamb will be the new light and there will be no need for the sun or moon.In the world to come there is only the Day,the Day of the Lord and Lamb,Jesus Christ.

Are you sure? Because they hand out HOT dogs to eat when you're not using asbestos water skis

 

[Brother Mike]

Scripture.

1,000 years as a day. A day as 1,000 years?

Thiscrosshurts

There is no time in the Spirit so there are no cycles.

A scripture that says there is no time in the spirit? Has not the events of the Word been run by the Word of God on a time frame? Is the Word of God Natural, or Spirit?

Just let me see the scripture that there is no time in the spirit, or that time is not kept track of.

Hare stated there is no division of time in the spirit world, 1855, Professor Robert Hare, being a spiritualist also said there is poverty in the realm of the spirit.

I'll just stick with scripture.

The Lamb will be the new light and there will be no need for the sun or moon.In the world to come there is only the Day,the Day of the Lord and Lamb,Jesus Christ.

Right, there will be no need for the moon or sun to shine, that does not denote there is no sun, or no moon though.

Also There will be no need in the CITY, not world, but nice try.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

The things outside the city, still need day and night.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.


Rev 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Would you like to try to explain this scripture away again?

Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

And that scripture where there is not time in the spirit please.

Jesus Is Lord.