Hell for non-followers of Christ?

[Brother Mike]

Thank you David777

Wordsmith?

only since I have been to Talk Jesus, the simple understanding of the Word had been so stretched, and twisted, one has no choice but to dive into the the Greek and Hebrew in attempts to understand something that even Scholars argue over today. It's a necessary fool's errand, when God was more than able to convey a simple concept in English, Having the power to preserve his own Word in a format we can understand.

The understanding of Aionios when used in language is a simple glance at strongs, Thayer, or NASEC. It has a beginning, that continues unless stopped by by another Word in Greek.

Strongs.
From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).

I am told that It's not perpetual, because it's a root from Aion, though Aion when said Aion Aion means no end. My Strongs says it's perpetual but also used to define a time, which is what I have said, and given scripture examples of.

Thayer says.
3) without end, never to cease, everlasting
I am told Thayer's is wrong.......

NASEC:
aiōnios; from G165; agelong, eternal: - eternal (66), eternity (1), forever (1).

I am told NASEC is wrong.

I am told Eternal life, forever life with God is wrong.........

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
I am told Jesus was talking about some burn pile where Garbage is burned, yet nobody is willing to show me where that fire is burning today as he said this fire is not quenched. Jesus was confused.

Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I am told only the devil is tormented day and night, though the false prophet was a human.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

I am told we just die, Poof..... having no spirit, having to ignore all the scriptures telling me that we are spirit in the image of God, and spirits just don't go Poof in to smoke....

All this trouble because someone refuses to believe in a Eternal Hell, they refuse to believe in Eternal life with God. If hell is not eternal, then we are lost after death, with no life beyond.

Even this scripture.........
1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

1Jn 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

So, I use the same deep, and twisted thinking, saying Great!!! everyone gets saved!! yea!!! I just have to ignore some things is all.

Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Now I have been taught by the best here. I can make the Word say whatever I want. Everything is wrong, your Strongs, Thayer, Nasec. If it don't line up to what you want it to believe.

Strongs said perpetual......... (Also used) Well, perpetual is wrong, Strongs is worthless, and Thayer is worthless, only to be used if it matches what I want.

I am not ready to say there is no eternal life with God, and not taking the twisted can convoluted path to prove no Hell. I am not ready to say God was not more than able to convey a simple concept in our language today. The fire is not Quenched, Eternal punishment is clear enough for me, and matches other scriptures perfectly.

When the people are wailing and gnashing their teeth, with no way out, having denied God, crying out to be released, saying, "They told us this place was not real Lord, your own people lied to us, they told us it's not real, they told us!!!!!, your own people Lord!!." It certainly will not be my fault.......

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Fraction]

Hello Brother Mike,


It seems to me that some are talking about the actual punishment for the unsaved and not the actual place of punishment. The scriptures being discussed really do describe a place that is eternal, and is there forever. This place is also commonly referred to as Hell. I just don't think the real topic that is being discussed currently is about the location itself, but rather of what punishment it exactly is. I think the real questions are:

Is the after-life of the unsaved spent in eternal suffering?
Is the the soul of the unsaved destroyed or erased from existence at death/second death?
What exactly happens to the unsaved soul?

Like you have mentioned Hell is eternal, but what is the eternal punishment? Suffering for eternity, destruction, or something else? Is the Bible clear on the exact details of punishment for the unsaved? Currently it seems to me that the Bible is unclear on the specific details of the fate for the unsaved, but we can safely assume that it is something that no one would enjoy.

The fire spoke of in the trash pile is obviously no longer burning. So what could Jesus have meant we he spoke of it? It was a place for garbage that was designed for its disposal and destruction. The fires purpose was to destroy the garbage. I don't think that it matters if it is burning still to this day or not. That's only my opinion though.

Thank you for reading, and I look forward to any responses.

 

[judge not]

Jesus said that " whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life" John 3:16
the word perish here means to be destroyed utterly not given eternal life in a place of suffering
in order to conclude that the Bible teaches eternal, conscious existence in a hellfire, one must claim that perish does not mean perish and that utter destruction does not mean destruction,
nobody is in hell right now-the unjust will be punished in the day of Judgment, the Bible makes that clear
the wages of sin is death, eternal death-if that's not eternal punishment, what is?
Why would God pull someone out of hell now-Judge him and throw him back into hell -that doesn't sound like something God would do, it sounds like something man has concluded

 

[Brother Mike]

brother.

Judge Not, I already answered all your questions, and you missed the Word punishment, you missed what I said about getting (Judged again)

Fraction: If Jesus said the fire is never quenched............ and he spoke that about a physical fire that people burned there trash in...... That fire would still be burning today. Jesus Only spoke what he heard his father say, and God's word never returned void.

When Jesus told a man to come from the grave, he did, when Jesus told that fig tree that no man shall eat fruit from you hereafter, the tree died, and if Jesus said this fire is never quenched, then whatever fire he spoke about is still burning today.

Like I said, if nobody wants to believe in hell, Jesus was just using some parable about the rich man and Abraham though he never said he was using a Parable, and different than any other parable because he used names, and actual places. IF we don't believe in eternal punishment, we don't believe in Eternal life.

But those that are in Hell, and suffering won't accuse me of not warning them.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

Hi Mike.

What I love about Talk Jesus is that there is such a plethora of different
theologies, doctrines, and traditions. It is international, it is attended over
time by a thousand different denominations. Each denomination will of course
grind its own axe.

It is at times a very difficult arena to inhabit, other times richly rewarding.
Some love this site, others would prefer it did not exist.

You said, in your time here that you have seen the understanding of the Word
stretched and twisted. Exactly, this is the history of Christianity, wolves have
entered the arena and savagely attacked every true doctrine of the Bible.
We were warned by Paul that this would happen. I am not surprised, I expect it,
and behold it comes to pass.

We are discussing the usage of the greek word aion and its extended
forms. Context is king as usual in our understanding of the root word
and the attempted translations.

Jesus Christ is Eternal, Immortal, Invisible, Love, Spirit, etc.

This is beyond debate, this is below primary doctrine, it is the Revelation in its dazzling
fullest to mankind. Meanings applied to the derivatives of aion have nothing to do with
the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Whether Hell is eternal or lasts for an age is what we are discussing.

This is a very important issue, it revolves simply around the root word aion.

You said,

All this trouble because someone refuses to believe in a Eternal Hell,
they refuse to believe in Eternal life with God. If hell is not eternal,
then we are lost after death, with no life beyond.

That statement is not true Mike, God's Eternal nature is attested to by other greek words.
Also, God is Spirit, which is not definable by time or dimension, etc.

Relax, we are not aboard the Titanic, dont panic.

 

[Kit Carson]

Jude describes hell like a wandering star in the blackness forever, no course or direction, no end. Luke 16 is not a parable but a story, it uses names that no parables use and it is giving specific information about the afterlife. It tells us it's a place of agony and self rejection, the rich man asked for only a drop of water to quench his insatiable thirst. He still had concern for his family and felt pain for himself. It's described by the rich man in his remorse asking to warn his family, yet he is told they will not believe even if someone (Jesus) would rise from the dead and tell them so. This is how great their unbelief was! We see the rich man is still giving orders telling Abraham to send Lazarus, who was an invalid in life and the rich man did not care at all for , now he asking him to do him a favor. The word torment is used 4 times in Luke 16 and it is used many other places.

I copied the above and changed it a bit in my way. The rich man is also told that there are now no chances for those in Heaven to come to him, and no chance for him to ever leave. It is a final and forever situation. Now I ask you if there is not chance to go to him and no chance for him to leave and this is commanded by God, does this show punishment is done and gone and not forever and lasting? No it quite clearly says, it is everlasting and forever in it meaning.

I used to try to say things like. Well ya know even I as man will not punish someone forever, even if a man commits a terrible crime I will sentence him to death by lethal injection, a humane way. To punish forever with no end is inhumane. But I am not God, and one of the things he shows me is some people and some things are simply evil. They will never change no matter how many chances they get. They will never change.

Hell was originally designed and intended for Satan and his angels. The fallen ones .......you see they were directly in the presence of God and still they challenged him. They knew his power and yet they challenged so God originally designed hell for them. When we also fell we now go there also.

Now my opinion and mine only. I could be totally wrong, but when I, you and all are judged by the living God, I do not find him unreasonable and unmerciful. I find him to demand belief and honor to him and if in his presence to never challenge him or lie and so on.....but a respectful manner and even a respectful question would be Ok......and I think he does judge fairly and with compassion. In other words I do not think he would allow a serial killer into heaven that has accepted him and been forgiven, and not allow an atheist who simply did not see if this man is also a good man. I think way beyond our own wish to condemn and put words into the mouth of God, that God does judge fair and with mercy.......but you see, God is not all love and kisses and does not always wipe your tears......not if you deserve otherwise. So if you tell yourself this is inhumane, and not so..well....it is so.

I think we are safe.....Lol! Jesus gave his life for us, he is our mediator and stands with us. So little things like a bit of doubt, a lie or two, a moment of anger or frustration, all the little things we all do, but are not withstood by a Holy God......we are forgiven. Now something serious, I really do not know......so I leave that one up to God.

I do know, and see, God is not going to allow sin in heaven ever again. So those who will not change.....he knows and will judge accordingly. Like I say, this is just my opinion.

I therefore tell you Hell is forever and ever, it is not eternal in the sense that punishment is instant and gone and therefore eternal in this view.....but it is eternal in the view of never ending.

Kit

 

[judge not]

I'm sorry but not able to read the many long posts on hell subject but just want to put in my 2 cents worth with limited time I have on the computer
If its been covered ignore me but if anything new let me know-

The gift of God is eternal life-sharing immortality with our Savior
The wages of sin is death-the Greek word translated " death ' is than'atos-spiritual lifelessness.
the word perish in Greek is ' apollumi ' meaning to destroy, obliterate, to exterminate.
Paul said that at the Second Coming those who obey not the gospel will be punished with everlasting DESTRUCTION ....11Thess 1:8-9 , not with the gift of immortality of eternal torture in a hell fire

 

[David777]

Hello Kit.

You are always welcome, your gentle way is a bonus.

Further, sometimes you are very funny.

I am trying to discover the usage of aion and its translation.

This is not about opinion, just the clearest, most pure translation
possible.

You can add your opinion after we have correctly translated the verses in question.

Then you are free to grab your pitchfork and do as you wish.

 

[David777]

Hello JudgeNot.

Very good post, you are correct, that is exactly what Paul states.

2 Thessalonians 1:7

and to give you who are troubled rest with us when the Lord Jesus is revealed
from heaven with His mighty angels, 8 in flaming fire taking vengeance on those
who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord
and from the glory of His power.

This passage is one of the reasons that I am investigating aion and its usage in the
New Testament. Clarity and precision are required.

 

[Kit Carson]

You are always welcome, your gentle way is a bonus.

Further, sometimes you are very funny.

I am trying to discover the usage of aion and its translation.

This is not about opinion, just the clearest, most pure translation
possible.

You can add your opinion after we have correctly translated the verses in question.

Then you are free to grab your pitchfork and do as you wish.

Ok David......please forgive me for this comment. I will go sharpen my pitchfork. It does need to be sharp. Meanwhile I will go look up that word aion as I do not have a clue what it means.

Aion....ever flowing, Well our brain is ever flowing always at work. In the way of God I suppose I would say, Acts 17:28 in God we live ,move and exist and without the life force of God we would not exist. So the Holy Spirit would be ever flowing.

Kit

 

[David777]

Thanks Kit.

It is just a simple process of discovering how to translate aion into English
within the context of each passage. Greek is more precise a language than English.
Will be back soon, in Christ my brother.

 

[Brother Mike]

What is the concept?

Thanks David777, I tend to get animated.

When reading God's word, what is the simple concept without getting into Greek, or Hebrew?

Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

If we where just reading, the concept is clear. Hell is a place where the Worm does not die (Their Worm) It's everlasting punishment, or It's everlasting life. The fire is never quenched.

The worm does not die, the body is still there, but destroyed, the fire never goes out......... So we got a smoking carcass full of worms that are able to withstand the fire..........

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Job 17:14 I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister.

Worm Also stands for corruption, and also it might be a real wiggly worm too. I have not been to Hell to check it out.

The body is destroyed, It's filled with Worms, There is fire, that is never put out, this infestation of Worms is constantly eating the carcass.

Mat 10:28 Body and soul destroyed, anything left of the former person. The Worms get you. No mention of the spirit of man though here. You seem to get your body back, raised from the dead. There seems to be a place to go, for those that did not seek Jesus on earth. Jesus said your Damned already. (I already gave scriptures for all that)


The Question: Is there a conscience, or spirit which we are still attached to all this, knowing fully what is happening to them?


Isa 14:10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?

Who are they? and who are they talking to....... Where are they at?
(another debate by some that this is those from Babylonian, but I can prove also the spiritual demonic force over Babylon, such as Danial)

Isa 14:11 Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

GW
Isa 14:11 Your pride has been brought down to Sheol along with the music of your harps. (Who had the harps and music?) Maggots are spread out like a bed under you, and worms cover you.

Where does this all take place? Who became like the rest of men? Who was found not to be so mighty after all? Where are these men? Why are they talking?

Notice the worms again?

Isa 14:9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.

Satan's arrival stirs up even the Chief ones (From the earth) This is Hell, where the worms are, same worms Jesus mentioned.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Once again...Aion by itself is an age...... Aion Aion is everlasting, Aion is a Noun.


Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Aionios is a subjective.....It is defined by the noun or enhances a noun. If it does not mean everlasting on it's own, then we have no eternal life here. Every place in the bible it's context has been everlasting unless defined by a noun. EVERY PLACE!!!!

Aionios can mean age with end, can mean wait until if defined.
It just means perpetual as Strongs said, until it's defined.

2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
Punished is a noun, Aionios defines it be the subjective after. If the person is completely destroyed, it invalidates the punishment part, making this scripture a lie.

We know destroyed, is a body full of worms where the fire is never quenched. We know man is a spirit, and their is punishment. Else the bible would have never used the word punish, since the person would not be there to punish.

Mat 25:46 Punishment...... Not Possible if not there.
2Th 1:9 Punishment..... Not possible if not there.

Unless aionios is not eternal in this case and punishment is just dead and nothing. Those that don't believe in God even believe this. It also means there is no eternal life for us. Dead.


I don't know how to make this more clear, and simple. I think for some that can't fathom eternal punishment, It has to be complicated so ones conscience can ignore a whole bunch of things.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

This is going to bring about a lot of... interesting replies maybe.

Even through all of the scriptures posted, I believe in destruction vs suffering forever. I find myself... unable to buy into the concept of the traditional definition of hell.

:sweating:

What you believe is irrelevant. It's what GOD's WORD says that counts.
HE said. "
Revelation 19:19-21 (King James Version)


19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."


HE said. "

Revelation 20:14-15 (King James Version)


14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."


Dear heart...HE ought to know. Its HIS rules.


Just don't be there to find out.

 

[El Hombre viejo]

Jude describes hell like a wandering star in the blackness forever, no course or direction, no end. Luke 16 is not a parable but a story, it uses names that no parables use and it is giving specific information about the afterlife. It tells us it's a place of agony and self rejection, the rich man asked for only a drop of water to quench his insatiable thirst. He still had concern for his family and felt pain for himself. It's described by the rich man in his remorse asking to warn his family, yet he is told they will not believe even if someone (Jesus) would rise from the dead and tell them so. This is how great their unbelief was! We see the rich man is still giving orders telling Abraham to send Lazarus, who was an invalid in life and the rich man did not care at all for , now he asking him to do him a favor. The word torment is used 4 times in Luke 16 and it is used many other places.

I copied the above and changed it a bit in my way. The rich man is also told that there are now no chances for those in Heaven to come to him, and no chance for him to ever leave. It is a final and forever situation. Now I ask you if there is not chance to go to him and no chance for him to leave and this is commanded by God, does this show punishment is done and gone and not forever and lasting? No it quite clearly says, it is everlasting and forever in it meaning.

I used to try to say things like. Well ya know even I as man will not punish someone forever, even if a man commits a terrible crime I will sentence him to death by lethal injection, a humane way. To punish forever with no end is inhumane. But I am not God, and one of the things he shows me is some people and some things are simply evil. They will never change no matter how many chances they get. They will never change.

Hell was originally designed and intended for Satan and his angels. The fallen ones .......you see they were directly in the presence of God and still they challenged him. They knew his power and yet they challenged so God originally designed hell for them. When we also fell we now go there also.

Now my opinion and mine only. I could be totally wrong, but when I, you and all are judged by the living God, I do not find him unreasonable and unmerciful. I find him to demand belief and honor to him and if in his presence to never challenge him or lie and so on.....but a respectful manner and even a respectful question would be Ok......and I think he does judge fairly and with compassion. In other words I do not think he would allow a serial killer into heaven that has accepted him and been forgiven, and not allow an atheist who simply did not see if this man is also a good man. I think way beyond our own wish to condemn and put words into the mouth of God, that God does judge fair and with mercy.......but you see, God is not all love and kisses and does not always wipe your tears......not if you deserve otherwise. So if you tell yourself this is inhumane, and not so..well....it is so.

I think we are safe.....Lol! Jesus gave his life for us, he is our mediator and stands with us. So little things like a bit of doubt, a lie or two, a moment of anger or frustration, all the little things we all do, but are not withstood by a Holy God......we are forgiven. Now something serious, I really do not know......so I leave that one up to God.

I do know, and see, God is not going to allow sin in heaven ever again. So those who will not change.....he knows and will judge accordingly. Like I say, this is just my opinion.

I therefore tell you Hell is forever and ever, it is not eternal in the sense that punishment is instant and gone and therefore eternal in this view.....but it is eternal in the view of never ending.

Kit

Where does the Bible describe hell as being wandering stars?

All I can find is
Jude 1:11-15 (King James Version)


11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


and this talks about people, not hell...

 

[David777]

Hello Mike.

We do become animated, that is clear.

It is not a negative, rather it is visible that you are enthusiastic.

It is definitely a passion you have.

From your post I was able to extract,

Aionios can mean age with end, can mean wait until it is defined.

Aionios does mean clearly an age to be determined.

The context will indicate the duration Mike.

This is the only way to define it, it we said eternal or perpetual
we would be rather inaccurate.

The context will define the length or duration of the age.

 

[Brother Mike]

What!!!

David777

Aionios does mean clearly an age to be determined.

The context will indicate the duration Mike.

The context will define the length or duration of the age.

Ughhhh, That is what I had been saying, post after post after post. Every occurrence of the word, it runs on forever, or get's defined. Otherwise Chronos would have been used instead.

Scripture example, after example, and now you say this?

If you need me, I'll be here banging my head on my keyboard.

Love you brother, and God bless!!

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[David777]

Dear Mike.

Please, your causing me grief.

I will cease to explore any further if you wish.

You do seem absolutely convinced.

I do not want you to bang your head on the keyboard.

 

[Brother Mike]

Ah, please continue.

18 Pages David. Some well thought out stuff, some not so good.

I brought the worms in last time. I brought those with Satan in hell, speaking to him. I brought up punishment.

I guess if one does not wish to believe in eternal torment, then one certainly will find a way to do so.

I have to stay consistent, to my knowledge which is limited of course.
No Aionious Hell, no Anioious Life. (As simple as I can get)

One could say hell is forever and real, but no eternal consequence of punishment. Problem is, It's Aionious punishment, and correct in the simple English understanding without the Greek. We can't loose a Greek Noun because we don't like it.

I explained the Word destruction........ worms.......

Not much else to do here.

My hope is for those that do not believe in eternal punishment, had every possible topic covered for them here on Talk Jesus.

and for those that do believe in Eternal Punishment, (Like Me) also have all the information possible.

Please continue David777, you reason, and your post show you do consider what the Word says, and your willing to make changes if needed, for that in itself is precious.

I need a break from "Hell"

God bless.

Jesus Is Lord.

 

[Thiscrosshurts]

My hope is for those that do not believe in eternal punishment, had every possible topic covered for them here on Talk Jesus.

Not even close Brother Mike.
Now that you bring Lucifer you have opened up more questionable beliefs.
I seems to me that there are so many holes in both beliefs that it would be better to simply tell people that.
The bible is focused more on this life and how to live than explaining the afterlife and how to die.

The thing that bothers me the most is that the old testament never taught the concept.Death is the wage of sin and David hid Gods word in his heart in hopes that God would remember him.The Jews spoke of the world to come and many sects still hold that belief.

Study the beliefs of the Babylonians and you will see why Isaiah and Ezekiel spoke of the underworld.They were ranting against the Earthly authorities and were using Babylonian beliefs in the underworld to taunt the Kings of the Earth.Many times in scripture God addresses false Gods as though they were real.
Jeremiah 16:20 Do men make their own gods? Yes, but they are not gods!"

I am lead to believe that the answer is something we have not yet considered.
It's not as simple as dying and going to heaven or hell.
Revelation 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

This verse seems to imply some kind of sliding scale so a murderer would not get the same punishment as an honest man who rejected Christ because the Christians he met were obnoxious to him.
Revelation 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

One punishment fits all just denies to much other scripture.

 

[Kit Carson]

Where does the Bible describe hell as being wandering stars?

All I can find is
Jude 1:11-15 (King James Version)


11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.
12These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
13Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
14And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
15To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.


and this talks about people, not hell...

Hi:
Take a look at verse 13. Wandering stars for which is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

The book of Jude is short, but says much. It basically to me shows how grace was turned upside down and grace was abused and you could do what you want.....grace covered it all. And it warns against false teachers and so on and how they tell you grace allows you to sin.

Then very subtle says....and the darkness has been reserved for such forever. Verse 14 speaks of the coming of Christ. Verse 15 speaks of the judgment.

So for those judged hell the darkness is forever. To me forever as spoken forever is not you are punished and your second death upon death is the meaning of gone forever. To me in the way I understand the Bible in its entire meaning, forever is forever and everlasting and with no end in hell.

I am not going there. No, No......whatever it takes which is little, just obey and be good. I will do.

I know I do not understand it all, but I also know God knows this and judges us from our heart.

Anyways that is where I see this , it is a small hint, but says much.

Kit