How do I accept Jesus as my Savior?

[Sue D.]

???


And that's why they had absolutely NO experience whatsoever with even the possibility that someone would lie to them.


Nope. You just need to say that to reject what I posit.

Both deal with being tricked into doing something because of a lie.


So what? Neither had any experience with being conned. Worse though for an elderly person today who really should know better. Youth does not. So the fact they were "young" supports my position. The had NO concept of what a lie was. How could they ?? (Really.. think it through.)

But I realize you are dug in deep with your indoctrination, so we'll just need to leave it at that.

Kindly,
Rhema

Uh... the one where God overrode his free will by God hardening his heart. You know... that one.

I'm not dug deep into any 'indoctrination.". Adam and Eve were created old enough to have children together. They had enough time with God to be able to trust him and make a choice. We have God's Word to read in order to get to know Him. We find it easier to yield to temptation rather than follow godliness.

 

[Sue D.]

???


And that's why they had absolutely NO experience whatsoever with even the possibility that someone would lie to them.


Nope. You just need to say that to reject what I posit.

Both deal with being tricked into doing something because of a lie.


So what? Neither had any experience with being conned. Worse though for an elderly person today who really should know better. Youth does not. So the fact they were "young" supports my position. The had NO concept of what a lie was. How could they ?? (Really.. think it through.)

But I realize you are dug in deep with your indoctrination, so we'll just need to leave it at that.

Kindly,
Rhema

Uh... the one where God overrode his free will by God hardening his heart. You know... that one.

The pharaoh that God had Moses dealing with. All the plagues that pharaohs people were trying to copy. God was showing His power. This was on their way out of Egypt. And yes, God did harden his heart. Bit he still had free will.

 

[Sue D.]

I mistyped. I meant that sometimes we're not satisfied with God's plan. We want to do things in our timing or we reject God's plan in favor of our own ideas.

 

[Rhema]

I'm not dug deep into any 'indoctrination."

I'm sure you're convinced of that.

Adam and Eve were created old enough to have children together.

And a 12 year old girl can have children today. So ?? You think age correlates directly with maturity?

They had enough time with God to be able to trust him and make a choice.

No. You are truly not getting this. (My apologies for the failure.) TRUST does not exist as a concept unless there also exists something else that cannot be trusted by which TRUST can be measured. But in the garden ALL things in creation were good, and hence automatically "trustworthy." There was nothing in the experience of Adam and Eve that could possibly be untrustworthy. You hear the word "snake" or "serpent" and all the "untrustworthy" concepts associated with the word automatically attach up inside your brain. But think wise Chinese dragon (they have legs you know).... Whatever Eve spoke with, there was NO reason to mistrust, as there was no reason to mistrust anything.

How can one learn or understand "mistrust" in a moment's time?

This reminds me of a tribe in Africa that had no future tense in their verb structure. They literally could not think into the future to prepare a water tower for when drought would come. It made no sense to them. There was no linguistic structure to express ideas about the future. That water would be just "sitting there" for a future need. It was unsettling. And you, having the ability to express actions within a future time frame, would just freak out were you to speak to such a person who could NOT talk about the future.

In other words, you are taking YOUR experience and concepts of thought and reading them into the account, rather than starting with the account and the zeitgeist or gestalt of a completely GOOD new creation.

We have God's Word to read in order to get to know Him.

Why can't God talk to you directly ?? Why do you need a book ?? It's a serious question, because He talks directly to me. The thing is, you define "God's Word" to mean Bible, when the Bible itself defines what "God's Word" is (there are two of them), and neither means "Bible."

We find it easier to yield to temptation rather than follow godliness.

Well then y'all had better get that fixed. Godliness is in my heart, it comes automatically. If not, then sin is in your heart. Can't be both.

And yes, God did harden his heart. Bit he still had free will.

If God hardens your heart, then you don't have free will. Are you truly unfamiliar with that passage? That surprises me.

I mistyped. I meant that sometimes we're not satisfied with God's plan. We want to do things in our timing or we reject God's plan in favor of our own ideas.

Why? How could one be "not satisfied" with "God's plan" ? That makes no sense to me. If you find yourself "rejecting God's plan" y'all had better get that fixed too.

Rhema

I mistyped.

Hey, it happens.

 

[Sue D.]

Rhema. -- there's a lot to discuss here but it's late. Will get back to this tomorrow.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

(Genesis 3:7 KJV) And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.​

God did not create man as blind and ignorant. That would not have been good.

"Opened" (H6491) (LXX: G1272) ... think of opening Pandora's box.

Many users of the drug LSD describe their mind as being "opened." This state of consciousness is not what God had intended for his creation.

Yes, the Bible says so.

Rhema

So you admit God created Adam and Eve without moral knowledge which produced guilt about staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

WERE made, kind sir. Not ARE made.

Does God make every tree?

Or is the seed for new trees within the tree itself?

(Genesis 1:11-12 KJV) And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

Does God "bring forth grass"? No. The text literally says "the earth brought forth grass," not God. This was after God established the system, commanding the earth to bring forth grass.

(Genesis 1:11-12 KJV) And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.​

Jesus does not create all babies. Adam and Eve were given the power and authority to procreate, a power that has not been revoked by God.

(Genesis 1:28-29 YLT) And God blesseth them, and God saith to them, 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it, and rule over fish of the sea, and over fowl of the heavens, and over every living thing that is creeping upon the earth.' And God saith, 'Lo, I have given to you every herb sowing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree in which is the fruit of a tree sowing seed, to you it is for food;

God commanded PEOPLE to have babies, and Jesus isn't running around making anybody pregnant.

Indeed, Humanity has been given dominion over the earth by God.

(Genesis 1:28 KJV) And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.​

We just don't do a good job of it since the Fall.

As for John 1:3 ... "made" ... γίνομαι - cause to become. The verb is written as a second Aorist, middle Deponent, Indicative, to indicate something that happened in the past and then ended. Otherwise the verb would have been written in the imperfect tense - as an ongoing action having started in the past.

The text of John 1:3 is to declare that the "Word" (the Logos) was the cause of creation and the systems within which creation operates.

There are very few people whom God decided to bring into existence (γίνομαι) on His own.

Rhema

"without him nothing was made that has been made". That includes all babies.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

God puts a spirit in us at conception and that is what gives us life along with what our parents do.

You go against the scriptures that say we have to be taught.

Parents are just instruments not creators.

You said God made a mistake by creating babies without faith in Jesus!

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

It is your imagination that I am running around and scared of talking about the scriptures.

Adam & Eve didn't have moral knowledge & that's why they stayed unclothed in God's most holy presence. You are afraid to address this truth!

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

They didn't sin yet and didn't feel shame yet. Sin didn't come into the world yet, so morally dressed wasn't a thing yet. I don't dodge any questions.

Sin was choosing the forbidden knowledge of good and evil which produced guilt about staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Their parents taught them about Jesus.

Their parents were Jews not Christians!

Psalms22:10:"
From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God". Not mothers but God created babies with faith in Jesus.

 

[Truth_seeker2022]

Because their parents taught them about him.

Abraham & 8 day old babies were circumcised as sign they believed in Jesus. Romans4:11: "And he received circumcision as a sign, a seal of the righteousness that he had by faith while he was still uncircumcised".

 

[God's Truth]

When a person believes in their heart they will Want to obey. A good relationship feels good. It won't feel burdensome.

No such thing as a person who believes will automatically want to obey, or more importantly will know what to obey with all these false teaching about faith alone, or the Catholic's teachings of different works to obey.

 

[God's Truth]

When a person believes in their heart they will Want to obey. A good relationship feels good. It won't feel burdensome.

You don't know people who believe but sin as always? I know a lot, and they claim faith alone.

 

[God's Truth]

Do we condemn the elderly when they are tricked into handing over their bank account by a con-man ?? No. We don't. Did the lady "choose" ?? Not really. She was lied to. Plain and simple.

What experience did Adam and Eve EVER have with someone lying to them? None. Do not make the mistake of putting yourself in their shoes. You have grown up to adulthood always having evil and lies around you. They did not. Take an innocent child, and consider them as "Adam and Eve." Then tell them a lie. You'll get a better understanding of what happened. It's easy to trick a child into eating candy, even if a parent said, "Not before dinner."

(John 8:44 KJV) Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.​

IS STAYING UNCLOTHED A RIGHTEOUS DEED?

Adam and Eve stayed unclothed in God's most holy presence. Was it a righteous deed on their part?

www.talkjesus.com

Do you blame the child for getting into a stranger's car? Egads, I hope not.

Rhema

I would agree with what you said but only concerning Eve.
Adam is said to be more responsible since he knew he was going against what God commanded and the devil didn't convince him but his wife.

 

[God's Truth]

Tell that to Paul and the Pharaoh.

Rhema

Paul was not forced. Why would you call it forced after having the blessing of intervention by Jesus like that?
As for the Pharaoh, he was hardened so that God could punish him for being who he was and doing what he did. God showed His power to Pharaoh by the punishment He gave.

 

[God's Truth]

(Genesis 3:7 KJV) And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.​

God did not create man as blind and ignorant. That would not have been good.

"Opened" (H6491) (LXX: G1272) ... think of opening Pandora's box.

Many users of the drug LSD describe their mind as being "opened." This state of consciousness is not what God had intended for his creation.

Yes, the Bible says so.

Rhema

God knew that Adam would sin. God made the plan for salvation before He made anything.

The plan for salvation to be through Jesus was made before the creation of the world.

1 Corinthians 2 6We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.

2 Timothy 1: 9Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 10But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Matthew 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

 

[God's Truth]

So you admit God created Adam and Eve without moral knowledge which produced guilt about staying unclothed in God's most holy presence.

Why do you keep saying that? They didn't clothe themselves because sin did not yet enter the world.

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[God's Truth]

"without him nothing was made that has been made". That includes all babies.

You keep going against the scriptures where God says to teach your children!

Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go; even when he is old he will not depart from it.

Deuteronomy 6:5-9 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength. Take to heart these words that I give you today. Repeat them to your children. Talk about them when you’re at home or away, when you lie down or get up. Write them down, and tie them around your wrist, and wear them as headbands as a reminder. Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

Deuteronomy 4:9-10 “But watch out! Be careful never to forget what you yourself have seen. Do not let these memories escape from your mind as long as you live! And be sure to pass them on to your children and grandchildren. Never forget the day when you stood before the Lord your God at Mount Sinai, where he told me, Summon the people before me, and I will personally instruct them. Then they will learn to fear me as long as they live, and they will teach their children to fear me also.”

Deuteronomy 11:19 Teach them to your children. Talk about them when you are at home and when you are on the road, when you are going to bed and when you are getting up.

 

[God's Truth]

Parents are just instruments not creators.

You said God made a mistake by creating babies without faith in Jesus!

I said no such thing.
God made it normal human ability to have faith.
We still have to be taught in order to have that faith.
Faith in God comes from hearing and learning and being convinced and persauded.

Where does our faith in God come from? Our faith comes from HEARING the word, see Romans 10:17. From hearing the word and being TAUGHT, Colossians 1:5, 7. From continuing in what we have been CONVINCED of, see 2 Timothy 3:14, and being PERSUADED, 2 Corinthians 5:11.