How Do I Put on the Armor of God?

[Mayflower]

Well there... Hi to all.

It's my first post here, and I'm about to post something that might just freak everybody out on this website, but please bear with me... while my post is meant to edify it will take some thinking (if not study) on your part. In other words, don't dismiss this post out of hand, and yes, I quite understand the scope of its implications.

I wish to say first, though, that I've read all four pages of this pinned thread, and I've listed a few quotes at the bottom in order to trigger notices for those whom I thought might be interested in digging a bit deeper into the text of Ephesians 6, rather than to start any conflict. I should also mention that I've been reading the New Testament texts in their initial language (Koine Greek) for well over 4 decades. And therein lies the Rub...

THE SWORD IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD.

... and this can be seen quite plainly when one reads the Greek text - και την περικεφαλαιαν του σωτηριου δεξασθε και την μαχαιραν του πνευματος ο εστιν ρημα θεου

Give me a moment to explain. It's not all that hard.
Brother-Paul, you just don't know how true that is. And as hard as it is to fathom, there is not one single English translation I have read that has correctly translated Ephesians 6:17, 18 into modern colloquial English (and I have read most all that are out there).

Why? Every English translation that I have read, introduces what is known as a "Squinting Modifier" that is NOT present in the Greek text. But first, let's look at the KJV -

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:​

(Ephesians 6:17 KJV)​

We have what is known as a modifying clause, the phrase - "which is the word of God." As a adjectival clause, it modifies a noun. But we have two nouns - Sword, and Spirit. So which noun is being modified? Is the Sword the word of God? Or is the Spirit the word of God?

In ye merry ole Oxford English of 400 years ago, one would have been taught that the modifying clause in a sentence attaches to the closest noun. So technically, these English translations are accurate, but only "technically." Anyone can see, then, that the closest noun to the modifying clause "which is the word of God" is the noun "Spirit," not "Sword." So the sword is not the "word of God." But sometime over these last four hundred years, along with a dearth of any adequate education in the King's English, we arrive at the astonishing conclusion that "American-ish" (what I called "modern colloquial English") has morphed into adopting a common practice wherein the possessive is dropped prior to attributing the modifier, and hence, EVERY pastor (therefore every sermon), and EVERY Christian I have ever met, reads the text of Ephesians 6:17 this way... "And take ... the sword (...), which is the word of God:" concluding that the Sword is the Word of God. But it isn't.

How can I be so sure ??

As mentioned, in Greek one can easily see that the SPIRIT is the word of God, and it has to do with Gender Matching. As in Modern Spanish, Koine Greek nouns have gender (male, female, & neuter). In addition, modifying clauses in Koine Greek must match the gender of the noun being modified. In Greek, μάχαιρα (sword - G3162) is feminine, while πνεῦμα (spirit - G4151) is neuter. Why does this matter? Because the word "which" is neuter in gender to match the noun "Spirit," not feminine to match the noun "Sword." God knows what they teach in seminary these days, but the sword is not the word of God, and never was. There's not even a question about it. To any second year Greek student, the modifying clause "which is the word of God" automatically attaches to the noun Spirit (πνεῦμα - G4151) because of gender matching.

THE SPIRIT IS THE WORD OF GOD.

Does this even matter ?? YEESSS... Yes it does. As many have pointed out, the sword is the only offensive weapon. Now how could one fight a battle if he or she has absolutely no clue what "sword" means, thinking it instead to mean "Bible"? "Pick up your sword !!" I heard one pastor preach, waving around his Bible. His church is failing.

I submit that if you believe something that isn't true, then what is True can't help you. One will suffer the consequences if one believes the wrong thing. Christians go charging into battle waving a book, which is NOT "the sword" in Ephesians chapter six, and wonder why they're being soundly trounced.

So then, what IS the sword?

(Well thank you kindly for asking... )

The sword is defined in verse 18, since the text in verse 17 doesn't actually stop. It was a Very poor place to put a period and a verse number. So let's read my interlinear... (or get your own for that matter, as it will say the same thing).

Eph 6:17, 18 - και (AND) την (THE) περικεφαλαιαν (HELMET) του (OF) σωτηριου (SALVATION) δεξασθε (TAKE !!!) και (AND = along with) την (THE) μαχαιραν (SWORD) του (OF THE) πνευματος (SPIRIT) ο (WHICH SPIRIT) εστιν (IS) ρημα (the RHEMA-WORD) θεου (OF GOD) δια (BY MEANS OF) πασης (ALL) προσευχης (PRAYER). - - - - That's what is literally written. --- TAKE THE SWORD BY MEANS OF ALL PRAYER.

PRAYER IS THE SWORD.

Now obviously one doesn't pick up a sword by the blade, or you'd cut your dang fool fingers off. Rather, one takes a sword by the pommel. If nothing else, then, you now know HOW to put on (wield) the sword. Take the sword by means of all prayer.

Witnessing is not our weapon in this metaphor.
Preaching is not our weapon in this metaphor.
Bible reading is not our weapon in this metaphor.
What IS our weapon? It's the Sword.
And the Sword, (the only weapon in this metaphor), is prayer.

If the general says, "TAKE THAT HILL !!" You'd better use your swords - you'd better be praying.
If the general says, "GUARD THAT FORT !!" You'd better use your swords - you'd better be praying.

Prayer is the only way that Christians can achieve.... ANYTHING.

I have raised the dead through PRAYER.
I have healed the sick through PRAYER.
I have saved souls through PRAYER.
I have stopped car crashes by means of PRAYER.
(And sometimes you've gotta pray lightning fast...)

And in any crisis, I would rather have the SWORD of PRAYER (TM) in my hands than anything else of the Armour.

God's Blessings to all,
Rhema

PS: A long time ago I was talking with a close Evangelical Christian friend who heard me teach this and he started to give praise and thanks to God that while not completely understanding these verses, he had been doing it - praying to Jesus about everything. It wasn't a boast, he was just relieved and glad that he was finally doing something right... that prayer was the KEY, praying always to Jesus. And while I didn't mean to be cruel, I stuck my foot in it and told him I was a bit puzzled in that Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father, and not to Jesus. YES, it was that unmistakable sound of awkward silence that followed, and we politely changed topics and my friend never mentioned it again. Until one year later. While visiting, he turned to me and said, "Remember when you......?" "YES, I'm SO sorry, I wasn't trying to rebuke you." But he quietly interrupted me to say that he changed the way he was praying that very same day, vowing to do so for a year. He stopped praying to Jesus and started praying to the Father, and being the engineer that he was, gave me the astonishing report that instead of ten percent of his prayers typically being answered, it was now nearly 95 percent. And he wanted to thank me for that.

PPS: It takes practice to learn how to wield a sword correctly. So go practice, brothers and sisters.

May I share this here rhema? I never heard that before and actually discussing this scripture elsewhere. I just found this discussion and think it is great. I'll need to read though to catch up.

The sword is defined in verse 18, since the text in verse 17 doesn't actually stop. It was a Very poor place to put a period and a verse number. So let's read my interlinear... (or get your own for that matter, as it will say the same thing).

Eph 6:17, 18 - και (AND) την (THE) περικεφαλαιαν (HELMET) του (OF) σωτηριου (SALVATION) δεξασθε (TAKE !!!) και (AND = along with) την (THE) μαχαιραν (SWORD) του (OF THE) πνευματος (SPIRIT) ο (WHICH SPIRIT) εστιν (IS) ρημα (the RHEMA-WORD) θεου (OF GOD) δια (BY MEANS OF) πασης (ALL) προσευχης (PRAYER). - - - - That's what is literally written. --- TAKE THE SWORD BY MEANS OF ALL PRAYER.

I always believed the sword of the Spirit was the Word of God. That Truth is both the offensive and defensive weapon. The Word of God is powerful when prayed/believed. That is a really good thought.

 

[Bill]

Well there... Hi to all.

It's my first post here, and I'm about to post something that might just freak everybody out on this website, but please bear with me... while my post is meant to edify it will take some thinking (if not study) on your part. In other words, don't dismiss this post out of hand, and yes, I quite understand the scope of its implications.

I wish to say first, though, that I've read all four pages of this pinned thread, and I've listed a few quotes at the bottom in order to trigger notices for those whom I thought might be interested in digging a bit deeper into the text of Ephesians 6, rather than to start any conflict. I should also mention that I've been reading the New Testament texts in their initial language (Koine Greek) for well over 4 decades. And therein lies the Rub...

THE SWORD IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD.

... and this can be seen quite plainly when one reads the Greek text - και την περικεφαλαιαν του σωτηριου δεξασθε και την μαχαιραν του πνευματος ο εστιν ρημα θεου

Give me a moment to explain. It's not all that hard.
Brother-Paul, you just don't know how true that is. And as hard as it is to fathom, there is not one single English translation I have read that has correctly translated Ephesians 6:17, 18 into modern colloquial English (and I have read most all that are out there).

Why? Every English translation that I have read, introduces what is known as a "Squinting Modifier" that is NOT present in the Greek text. But first, let's look at the KJV -

And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:​

(Ephesians 6:17 KJV)​

We have what is known as a modifying clause, the phrase - "which is the word of God." As a adjectival clause, it modifies a noun. But we have two nouns - Sword, and Spirit. So which noun is being modified? Is the Sword the word of God? Or is the Spirit the word of God?

In ye merry ole Oxford English of 400 years ago, one would have been taught that the modifying clause in a sentence attaches to the closest noun. So technically, these English translations are accurate, but only "technically." Anyone can see, then, that the closest noun to the modifying clause "which is the word of God" is the noun "Spirit," not "Sword." So the sword is not the "word of God." But sometime over these last four hundred years, along with a dearth of any adequate education in the King's English, we arrive at the astonishing conclusion that "American-ish" (what I called "modern colloquial English") has morphed into adopting a common practice wherein the possessive is dropped prior to attributing the modifier, and hence, EVERY pastor (therefore every sermon), and EVERY Christian I have ever met, reads the text of Ephesians 6:17 this way... "And take ... the sword (...), which is the word of God:" concluding that the Sword is the Word of God. But it isn't.

How can I be so sure ??

As mentioned, in Greek one can easily see that the SPIRIT is the word of God, and it has to do with Gender Matching. As in Modern Spanish, Koine Greek nouns have gender (male, female, & neuter). In addition, modifying clauses in Koine Greek must match the gender of the noun being modified. In Greek, μάχαιρα (sword - G3162) is feminine, while πνεῦμα (spirit - G4151) is neuter. Why does this matter? Because the word "which" is neuter in gender to match the noun "Spirit," not feminine to match the noun "Sword." God knows what they teach in seminary these days, but the sword is not the word of God, and never was. There's not even a question about it. To any second year Greek student, the modifying clause "which is the word of God" automatically attaches to the noun Spirit (πνεῦμα - G4151) because of gender matching.

THE SPIRIT IS THE WORD OF GOD.

Does this even matter ?? YEESSS... Yes it does. As many have pointed out, the sword is the only offensive weapon. Now how could one fight a battle if he or she has absolutely no clue what "sword" means, thinking it instead to mean "Bible"? "Pick up your sword !!" I heard one pastor preach, waving around his Bible. His church is failing.

I submit that if you believe something that isn't true, then what is True can't help you. One will suffer the consequences if one believes the wrong thing. Christians go charging into battle waving a book, which is NOT "the sword" in Ephesians chapter six, and wonder why they're being soundly trounced.

So then, what IS the sword?

(Well thank you kindly for asking... )

The sword is defined in verse 18, since the text in verse 17 doesn't actually stop. It was a Very poor place to put a period and a verse number. So let's read my interlinear... (or get your own for that matter, as it will say the same thing).

Eph 6:17, 18 - και (AND) την (THE) περικεφαλαιαν (HELMET) του (OF) σωτηριου (SALVATION) δεξασθε (TAKE !!!) και (AND = along with) την (THE) μαχαιραν (SWORD) του (OF THE) πνευματος (SPIRIT) ο (WHICH SPIRIT) εστιν (IS) ρημα (the RHEMA-WORD) θεου (OF GOD) δια (BY MEANS OF) πασης (ALL) προσευχης (PRAYER). - - - - That's what is literally written. --- TAKE THE SWORD BY MEANS OF ALL PRAYER.

PRAYER IS THE SWORD.

Now obviously one doesn't pick up a sword by the blade, or you'd cut your dang fool fingers off. Rather, one takes a sword by the pommel. If nothing else, then, you now know HOW to put on (wield) the sword. Take the sword by means of all prayer.

Witnessing is not our weapon in this metaphor.
Preaching is not our weapon in this metaphor.
Bible reading is not our weapon in this metaphor.
What IS our weapon? It's the Sword.
And the Sword, (the only weapon in this metaphor), is prayer.

If the general says, "TAKE THAT HILL !!" You'd better use your swords - you'd better be praying.
If the general says, "GUARD THAT FORT !!" You'd better use your swords - you'd better be praying.

Prayer is the only way that Christians can achieve.... ANYTHING.

I have raised the dead through PRAYER.
I have healed the sick through PRAYER.
I have saved souls through PRAYER.
I have stopped car crashes by means of PRAYER.
(And sometimes you've gotta pray lightning fast...)

And in any crisis, I would rather have the SWORD of PRAYER (TM) in my hands than anything else of the Armour.

God's Blessings to all,
Rhema

PS: A long time ago I was talking with a close Evangelical Christian friend who heard me teach this and he started to give praise and thanks to God that while not completely understanding these verses, he had been doing it - praying to Jesus about everything. It wasn't a boast, he was just relieved and glad that he was finally doing something right... that prayer was the KEY, praying always to Jesus. And while I didn't mean to be cruel, I stuck my foot in it and told him I was a bit puzzled in that Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father, and not to Jesus. YES, it was that unmistakable sound of awkward silence that followed, and we politely changed topics and my friend never mentioned it again. Until one year later. While visiting, he turned to me and said, "Remember when you......?" "YES, I'm SO sorry, I wasn't trying to rebuke you." But he quietly interrupted me to say that he changed the way he was praying that very same day, vowing to do so for a year. He stopped praying to Jesus and started praying to the Father, and being the engineer that he was, gave me the astonishing report that instead of ten percent of his prayers typically being answered, it was now nearly 95 percent. And he wanted to thank me for that.

PPS: It takes practice to learn how to wield a sword correctly. So go practice, brothers and sisters.

The Gifts of the Spirit take practice as well, Decernment is the one least practiced.

 

[Rhema]

You, @Rhema, have raised the dead and saved souls? Really? Who and when? I believe in the power of prayer, but only God resurrects the dead and only God saves souls.

So I see you're offended by my semantics. I mean, really? That's what you got out of my entire post? Well that's a shame.

When I pray, who else is doing the praying ?

God bless,
Rhema

 

[JerryfromMass]

So I see you're offended by my semantics. I mean, really? That's what you got out of my entire post? Well that's a shame.

When I pray, who else is doing the praying ?

God bless,
Rhema

Blessings.

Offended? I simply asked rhetorically about your claim that you have raised the dead and saved souls through your prayers.

You asked: "When I pray, who else is doing the praying?

If our prayers are properly directed, God's word tells us that Jesus is pleading on our behalf. Hebrews 7:25; Romans 8:34.

To whom do you pray?

To whom are your prayers directed?

 

[Rhema]

May I share this here rhema?

I wouldn't see why not ... Since I'm the newbie, it's not like I'd have any objection.

I never heard that before ...

I'm presuming you mean the Greek construct of these two verses (17 & 18). I grew up within the church, (a couple of different denominations) and at age 17 was finally excommunicated by my parents' KJV only church when they found out I was reading a Greek Interlinear. I have heard innumerable sermons where it's preached "the BIBLE is the SWORD," and yet it wasn't until after college that, at yet another sermon, I was reading along in the Greek this time and saw that this was not the case.

I'll need to read though to catch up.

Since it was pinned, it caught my eye. Ephesians 6:17 is my "go to" verse whenever I run across a new translation.

(Hope my post wasn't too long...)

I always believed the sword of the Spirit was the Word of God.

Well that IS similar to what the English text says, so I can't fault the average reader. But with modern day colloquial English, everyone I've ever met interprets the passage as saying the SWORD is the Word of God (and "Word of God" means BIBLE), which is just not what is written in the Greek. So I thought to clarify here that the SWORD IS PRAYER.

There's a reason that Jesus drove out all the animals and flat out stopped all animal sacrifice to say "My house shall be called the house of prayer;" (Matthew 21:13 KJV) and not a house of animal sacrifices.

The Word of God is powerful when prayed/believed.

Actually, that's a secondary discussion... Here in Ephesians 6:17, the "Word of God" is the Holy Spirit, but PRAYER is the SWORD.

That is a really good thought.

Well thank you, but I wasn't the one who wrote the Greek text that says the SWORD is PRAYER. Personally, I don't think we pray enough. I recall about 40 years ago, right after college, after deciding to attend a church in Bolton MA, the Pastor's theme of the first prayer meeting I attended was on the importance of prayer. I was the only person who showed up.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[JerryfromMass]

And in any crisis, I would rather have the SWORD of PRAYER (TM) in my hands than anything else of the Armour.

Blessings,

And yet Paul clearly tells us "Above ALL, taking the shield of faith[.]"

Prayer builds up. Prayer edifies. Prayer communicates with the Lord. Prayer does receive answers; sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no, sometimes not right now. We e are to pray always, but prayer is not what saves; by God's grace are we saved through faith.

 

[Rhema]

To whom do you pray?

To whom are your prayers directed?

Jesus taught us to pray to the Father.
I follow that teaching.
But I will say that prayer is a bit more complicated than what a simple Sunday School lesson would imply.
(agreeing with @Bill)

A Sword can be sublime, or used like a pig sticker.

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Mayflower]

I wouldn't see why not ... Since I'm the newbie, it's not like I'd have any objection.

I'm presuming you mean the Greek construct of these two verses (17 & 18). I grew up within the church, (a couple of different denominations) and at age 17 was finally excommunicated by my parents' KJV only church when they found out I was reading a Greek Interlinear. I have heard innumerable sermons where it's preached "the BIBLE is the SWORD," and yet it wasn't until after college that, at yet another sermon, I was reading along in the Greek this time and saw that this was not the case.


Since it was pinned, it caught my eye. Ephesians 6:17 is my "go to" verse whenever I run across a new translation.

(Hope my post wasn't too long...)


Well that IS similar to what the English text says, so I can't fault the average reader. But with modern day colloquial English, everyone I've ever met interprets the passage as saying the SWORD is the Word of God (and "Word of God" means BIBLE), which is just not what is written in the Greek. So I thought to clarify here that the SWORD IS PRAYER.

There's a reason that Jesus drove out all the animals and flat out stopped all animal sacrifice to say "My house shall be called the house of prayer;" (Matthew 21:13 KJV) and not a house of animal sacrifices.


Actually, that's a secondary discussion... Here in Ephesians 6:17, the "Word of God" is the Holy Spirit, but PRAYER is the SWORD.


Well thank you, but I wasn't the one who wrote the Greek text that says the SWORD is PRAYER. Personally, I don't think we pray enough. I recall about 40 years ago, right after college, after deciding to attend a church in Bolton MA, the Pastor's theme of the first prayer meeting I attended was on the importance of prayer. I was the only person who showed up.

God bless,
Rhema

Well it is very interesting. Thanks. And yes, just the part quoted.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Jesus taught us to pray to the Father.
I follow that teaching.

Blessings,

Yes, during his earthly ministry Jesus taught his disciples to pray to the Father. But, Jesus also taught his disciples to pray in his (Jesus's) name in order that the Father would be glorified. We who follow Jesus are in Jesus, and Jesus is in us, which is why we pray in Jesus's name. Additionally, Jesus is our one and only heavenly mediator, and has been given all authority to also be our eternal judge.

Do you pray in Jesus's name?

 

[Rhema]

And yet Paul clearly tells us "Above ALL, taking the shield of faith[.]"

In all things taking the shield of faith, wherewith you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one.​

(Ephesians 6:16 DRB)​

Unfortunately I shall have to disagree with your emphasis. Whether "επι πασιν" (TR) or "εν πασιν" (WH) your emphasis cannot be attributed to Paul. (It's YOUR emphasis.) Paul didn't write "Above ALL"... you did. No? I don't see it in the text, but if you do... okey dokey. As a metaphor for battle, one would think it best to have both Kevlar and a gun, but why would one even pray if one didn't have "faith" in prayer? My post wasn't meant to address any issue about "Shield" or "Faith" (that's a thread all unto its own) but to show that the Greek constructs prove the SWORD is PRAYER, and SPIRIT is the "Word of God" (not the sword).

Prayer builds up. Prayer edifies. Prayer communicates with the Lord. Prayer does receive answers; sometimes the answer is yes, sometimes no, sometimes not right now. We e are to pray always, but prayer is not what saves; by God's grace are we saved through faith.

According to your faith be it unto you.​

(Matthew 9:29 KJV)​

​

For all the promises of God in him are yes, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.​

(2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV)​

I think we may have quite a different perspective on what constitutes prayer, as I'm sure you likely thought the SWORD was the Bible, no?
(Apologies if my presumption is inaccurate.)

God bless,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

... which is why we pray in Jesus's name.

In Jesus' name to whom?

 

[JerryfromMass]

In all things taking the shield of faith, wherewith you may be able to extinguish all the fiery darts of the most wicked one.​

(Ephesians 6:16 DRB)​

Unfortunately I shall have to disagree with your emphasis. Whether "επι πασιν" (TR) or "εν πασιν" (WH) your emphasis cannot be attributed to Paul. (It's YOUR emphasis.) Paul didn't write "Above ALL"... you did. No? I don't see it in the text, but if you do... okey dokey. As a metaphor for battle, one would think it best to have both Kevlar and a gun, but why would one even pray if one didn't have "faith" in prayer? My post wasn't meant to address any issue about "Shield" or "Faith" (that's a thread all unto its own) but to show that the Greek constructs prove the SWORD is PRAYER, and SPIRIT is the "Word of God" (not the sword).

According to your faith be it unto you.​

(Matthew 9:29 KJV)​

​

For all the promises of God in him are yes, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.​

(2 Corinthians 1:20 KJV)​

I think we may have quite a different perspective on what constitutes prayer, as I'm sure you likely thought the SWORD was the Bible, no?
(Apologies if my presumption is inaccurate.)

God bless,
Rhema

The text does say "en pasin", which does mean "in all". The KJV translators used the word "above", but doing so does not de-emphasis the fact that the shield of faith is our paramount weapon against evil. If you pray with wrong motives, i.e., not with faith, your prayers are of no use. Hopefully your prayers are faithful to God and glorify God. But it is by grace alone through our faith alone that we are saved.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Do you pray in Jesus's name?

In Jesus' name to whom?

Blessings,

Its really a simple yes or no question. Should I have asked you in Greek?

 

[JerryfromMass]

A long time ago I was talking with a close Evangelical Christian friend who heard me teach this and he started to give praise and thanks to God that while not completely understanding these verses, he had been doing it - praying to Jesus about everything. It wasn't a boast, he was just relieved and glad that he was finally doing something right... that prayer was the KEY, praying always to Jesus. And while I didn't mean to be cruel, I stuck my foot in it and told him I was a bit puzzled in that Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father, and not to Jesus. YES, it was that unmistakable sound of awkward silence that followed, and we politely changed topics and my friend never mentioned it again. Until one year later. While visiting, he turned to me and said, "Remember when you......?" "YES, I'm SO sorry, I wasn't trying to rebuke you." But he quietly interrupted me to say that he changed the way he was praying that very same day, vowing to do so for a year. He stopped praying to Jesus and started praying to the Father, and being the engineer that he was, gave me the astonishing report that instead of ten percent of his prayers typically being answered, it was now nearly 95 percent. And he wanted to thank me for that.

Rhema,

The "SWORD OF THE SPIRIT" is the Word of God. The Bible's text makes that point clear.

You advocate that we who follow Jesus stop praying to Jesus, when Jesus Himself tells us to ask for all things in his name so that the Father would be glorified. We who follow Jesus are in Jesus, and Jesus is in us, which is why we pray in Jesus's name. Jesus is our one and only heavenly mediator, and has been given all authority to also be our eternal judge.

You use lofty intellect and an unverifiable anecdote of an "evangelical Christian friend" to shine light on your advocacy against praying to Jesus in effort to convince us to follow your light. You obviously reject Jesus as your one and only heavenly mediator. Jesus has six words for those with whom He has no relationship: "Go away. I never knew you."

Beware brothers and sisters: even Satan, the Father lies and lover of darkness, will masquerade as an angel of light in effort to draw those that love God away from the true light.

Sword is used more than once in the Bible as a metaphor for God's word. When Paul uses "sword of the Spirit" in Ephesians 6, he is writing about the Word of God. Don't be deceived.

Sorry, Rhema, I just don't buy what you're selling.

 

[Mayflower]

Rhema,

The "SWORD OF THE SPIRIT" is the Word of God. The Bible's text makes that point clear.

You advocate that we who follow Jesus stop praying to Jesus, when Jesus Himself tells us to ask for all things in his name so that the Father would be glorified. We who follow Jesus are in Jesus, and Jesus is in us, which is why we pray in Jesus's name. Jesus is our one and only heavenly mediator, and has been given all authority to also be our eternal judge.

You use lofty intellect and an unverifiable anecdote of an "evangelical Christian friend" to shine light on your advocacy against praying to Jesus in effort to convince us to follow your light. You obviously reject Jesus as your one and only heavenly mediator. Jesus has six words for those with whom He has no relationship: "Go away. I never knew you."

Beware brothers and sisters: even Satan, the Father lies and lover of darkness, will masquerade as an angel of light in effort to draw those that love God away from the true light.

Sword is used more than once in the Bible as a metaphor for God's word. When Paul uses "sword of the Spirit" in Ephesians 6, he is writing about the Word of God. Don't be deceived.

Sorry, Rhema, I just don't buy what you're selling.

I believe we pray to the Father in Jesus Name. It sounds like y'all are saying the same thing...

Do y'all both believe that Jesus is son of God and Holy Trinity, that Jesus is God in bodily form? I am just trying to understand where the disagreement is.

I was talking to a friend who studies Greek for a few years about the passage. I find it is an interesting take on it, but at any rate, the Word of God IS powerful and should be used as well as prayer. I think that is something we can agree on.

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage battle according to the flesh, 4for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but https://biblehub.com/nasb_/2_corinthians/10.htm#fndivinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5We are destroying arguments and all arrogance raised against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, Galatians 10:3-5
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16All Scripture is https://biblehub.com/nasb_/2_timothy/3.htm#fninspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for [j]rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man or woman of God may be [k]fully capable, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16

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14We urge you, brothers and sisters, admonish the [j]unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek what is good for one another and for all people. 16Rejoice always, 17pray without ceasing, 18in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus. 19Do not quench the Spirit, 20do not utterly reject [k]prophecies, 21but examine everything; hold firmly to that which is good, 22abstain from every [l]form of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:14-22

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I think whether or not prayer is the meaning there or not, praise and prayer are powerful weapons against the enemy. We can add them on the belt of Truth at least.

James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much.

 

[JerryfromMass]

I believe we pray to the Father in Jesus Name. It sounds like y'all are saying the same thing...

Do y'all both believe that Jesus is son of God and Holy Trinity, that Jesus is God in bodily form? I am just trying to understand where the disagreement is.

I was talking to a friend who studies Greek for a few years about the passage. I find it is an interesting take on it, but at any rate, the Word of God IS powerful and should be used as well as prayer. I think that is something we can agree on.

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage battle according to the flesh, 4for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but 2 Corinthians 10 New American Standard Bibledivinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. 5We are destroying arguments and all arrogance raised against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, Galatians 10:3-5
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16All Scripture is https://biblehub.com/nasb_/2_timothy/3.htm#fninspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for [j]rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man or woman of God may be [k]fully capable, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16

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14We urge you, brothers and sisters, admonish the [j]unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone. 15See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek what is good for one another and for all people. 16Rejoice always, 17pray without ceasing, 18in everything give thanks; for this is the will of God for you in Christ Jesus. 19Do not quench the Spirit, 20do not utterly reject [k]prophecies, 21but examine everything; hold firmly to that which is good, 22abstain from every [l]form of evil. 1 Thessalonians 5:14-22

----

I think whether or not prayer is the meaning there or not, praise and prayer are powerful weapons against the enemy. We can add them on the belt of Truth at least.

James 5:16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. A prayer of a righteous person, when it is brought about, can accomplish much.

Sister Mayflower

Carefully read what @Rhema wrote. She or he is advocating that we not pray to Jesus at all. Again, read her penultimate paragraph at Post #72 (I've copied and pasted it below).

Rhema wrote: "PS: A long time ago I was talking with a close Evangelical Christian friend who heard me teach this and he started to give praise and thanks to God that while not completely understanding these verses, he had been doing it - praying to Jesus about everything. It wasn't a boast, he was just relieved and glad that he was finally doing something right... that prayer was the KEY, praying always to Jesus. And while I didn't mean to be cruel, I stuck my foot in it and told him I was a bit puzzled in that Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father, and not to Jesus. YES, it was that unmistakable sound of awkward silence that followed, and we politely changed topics and my friend never mentioned it again. Until one year later. While visiting, he turned to me and said, "Remember when you......?" "YES, I'm SO sorry, I wasn't trying to rebuke you." But he quietly interrupted me to say that he changed the way he was praying that very same day, vowing to do so for a year. He stopped praying to Jesus and started praying to the Father, and being the engineer that he was, gave me the astonishing report that instead of ten percent of his prayers typically being answered, it was now nearly 95 percent. And he wanted to thank me for that."

 

[Mayflower]

Sister Mayflower

Carefully read what @Rhema wrote. She or he is advocating that we not pray to Jesus at all. Again, read her penultimate paragraph at Post #72 (I've copied and pasted it below).

Rhema wrote: "PS: A long time ago I was talking with a close Evangelical Christian friend who heard me teach this and he started to give praise and thanks to God that while not completely understanding these verses, he had been doing it - praying to Jesus about everything. It wasn't a boast, he was just relieved and glad that he was finally doing something right... that prayer was the KEY, praying always to Jesus. And while I didn't mean to be cruel, I stuck my foot in it and told him I was a bit puzzled in that Jesus instructed us to pray to the Father, and not to Jesus. YES, it was that unmistakable sound of awkward silence that followed, and we politely changed topics and my friend never mentioned it again. Until one year later. While visiting, he turned to me and said, "Remember when you......?" "YES, I'm SO sorry, I wasn't trying to rebuke you." But he quietly interrupted me to say that he changed the way he was praying that very same day, vowing to do so for a year. He stopped praying to Jesus and started praying to the Father, and being the engineer that he was, gave me the astonishing report that instead of ten percent of his prayers typically being answered, it was now nearly 95 percent. And he wanted to thank me for that."

Not to get too far off topic, but this would be a great discussion... I break out speaking to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I guess our main prayers should be to the Father in Jesus Name though, since everything is ultimately from Him. I'm sure this could get off topic fast though here...

Never can go wrong with praying the Word of God. Personalizing it.

 

[JerryfromMass]

Not to get too far off topic, but this would be a great discussion... I break out speaking to Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I guess our main prayers should be to the Father in Jesus Name though, since everything is ultimately from Him. I'm sure this could get off topic fast though here...

Never can go wrong with praying the Word of God. Personalizing it.

Sister,

When I'm witnessing, a lot of people say stuff like "I don't care for religion" or "Religion is not for me." And then I tell them that Christianity is not a religion, it's a person, and His name is Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

We are commanded to follow Jesus because Jesus is the only way to the Father. Jesus tells us to abide in Him and He will abide in us because Jesus is the vine and we the branches, and the vine nourishes the branch. Jesus tells us to ask all things in His name so that the Father will be glorified. And Jesus tells us that He and the Father are One: if you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father, and if you believe in the One that sent Jesus, believe also in Jesus.

There is no mediator but Jesus. There is no covering for our sins but Jesus. There is no judge before whom we will appear but Jesus. Only Jesus saves.

Jesus tells us we must do the will of the Father if we are to be known by the Son. It is the will of the Father that we repent and believe in the good news of Jesus Christ and follow Him as our Savior and Lord.

So, yes, pray to Jesus and in Jesus's name, as He is our Blessed Hope. ❤

 

[Mayflower]

Sister,

When I'm witnessing, a lot of people say stuff like "I don't care for religion" or "Religion is not for me." And then I tell them that Christianity is not a religion, it's a person, and His name is Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God.

We are commanded to follow Jesus because Jesus is the only way to the Father. Jesus tells us to abide in Him and He will abide in us because Jesus is the vine and we the branches, and the vine nourishes the branch. Jesus tells us to ask all things in His name so that the Father will be glorified. And Jesus tells us that He and the Father are One: if you have seen Jesus, you have seen the Father, and if you believe in the One that sent Jesus, believe also in Jesus.

There is no mediator but Jesus. There is no covering for our sins but Jesus. There is no judge before whom we will appear but Jesus. Only Jesus saves.

Jesus tells us we must do the will of the Father if we are to be known by the Son. It is the will of the Father that we repent and believe in the good news of Jesus Christ and follow Him as our Savior and Lord.

So, yes, pray to Jesus and in Jesus's name, as He is our Blessed Hope. ❤

AMEN!!!

 

[Rhema]

Jesus has six words for those with whom He has no relationship: "Go away. I never knew you."

I didn't realize you were Jesus.

But it is obvious that you're combative without a cause.

The "SWORD OF THE SPIRIT" is the Word of God. The Bible's text makes that point clear.

Okay then, I gather you learned nothing from my post. That's a shame. Find someone you know who can read Greek (or even English for that matter) and let them teach you. It's unfortunate that your education has failed you. I hadn't expected my post would bring out the trolls this fast.

You advocate that we who follow Jesus stop praying to Jesus, when Jesus Himself tells us to ask for all things in his name so that the Father would be glorified.

As scripture says, we are to ask the Father in Jesus' name. I'm not sure why you find that so difficult.

And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.​

(John 16:23 KJV)​

Why do you reject this verse if you are a "follower" of Jesus?

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?​

(Luke 6:46 KJV)​

Beware brothers and sisters: even Satan, the Father lies and lover of darkness, will masquerade as an angel of light in effort to draw those that love God away from the true light.

Sword is used more than once in the Bible as a metaphor for God's word. When Paul uses "sword of the Spirit" in Ephesians 6, he is writing about the Word of God. Don't be deceived.

Beware brothers and sisters: JerryfromMass rejects the verse where Jesus taught us to ask the Father in Jesus' name. (And I clearly explained what Paul actually wrote.)

Sorry, Rhema, I just don't buy what you're selling.

This is good to know. I don't have fellowship with people who reject the teachings of Jesus as you have done.

I'll let my post stand, and disengage from your trollish behaviour.

Rhema