I am beginning to think that Christians do not understand anything about Good morals or how morals are determine.
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ForeverinHim
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Why do you think that Christians do not understand morals?
well, what are morals to begin with?
That questions can be asked and, may I say, briefly touched upon in a college semester.
People spend their entire college careers trying to figure out what morality is, and most would agree that our human understanding of morality is as a social construct that is used to benefit society as a whole. This understanding is flexible, as it changes over time.
One common example is slavery. Once upon a time, slavery was something that was supported by the church, and deemed as both moral and, not only socially acceptable, but a social necessity.
Another example would be killing. Murder in itself is bad for the tribe, as less people alive would mean less people to reproduce and carry on the species. But most would say that capital punishment is an acceptable form of punishment. So are the people we deem evil and irredeemable the exception? What about war? Is it okay for soldiers to kill enemy children in combat? The law says it’s fine, and the Bible isn’t against it, so why does it feel wrong?
My point is that not everything is black and white, as you would find many shades of grey in even the most straightforward believes. Some people would say that it’s fine for the government to kill prisoners who deserve it, and others would say that it’s wrong. How do we determine who is right and who is wrong?
One mistake that I see a lot of Christians make is that they have this false notion that the Bible is clear on certain matters. It’s not. I heard someone else say this on this site, but two people could read the same passage of scripture and have two, very different, takeaways from that same passage. What does the Bible say on capita punishment? Nothing concrete. You could argue that God trusts the government to make these decisions for us, as God crested the government and we are to abide by that. You could also argue that God never gave the okay for the government to kill prisoners through a faulty system, and to rely on their own human intellect to carry out these executions. You could use both arguments, but how can we determine the truth? Which belief is moral, and which belief isn’t?
You could pray on it, ask the Holy Spirit to lead you to the answer. But then your answer becomes a lot more personal. “I believe this because God told me to believe it, and you should too.” That is something you would hear in a church, but tell that to an atheist, and they’ll arch their brow in pure, utter confusion. It would be no different than an atheist telling you that you should have an abortion because they said so.
So the truth is, morals are arbitrary, and the Bible isn’t as clear as many would like to believe. Christians base their teachings on the Bible. But when you take into account various ethnic backgrounds, history, culture, etc., you realize that different Christians are going to have beliefs different from yours. That is why we have churches, but you can see how vastly different denominations can be.
well, what are morals to begin with?
That questions can be asked and, may I say, briefly touched upon in a college semester.
People spend their entire college careers trying to figure out what morality is, and most would agree that our human understanding of morality is as a social construct that is used to benefit society as a whole. This understanding is flexible, as it changes over time.
One common example is slavery. Once upon a time, slavery was something that was supported by the church, and deemed as both moral and, not only socially acceptable, but a social necessity.
Another example would be killing. Murder in itself is bad for the tribe, as less people alive would mean less people to reproduce and carry on the species. But most would say that capital punishment is an acceptable form of punishment. So are the people we deem evil and irredeemable the exception? What about war? Is it okay for soldiers to kill enemy children in combat? The law says it’s fine, and the Bible isn’t against it, so why does it feel wrong?
My point is that not everything is black and white, as you would find many shades of grey in even the most straightforward believes. Some people would say that it’s fine for the government to kill prisoners who deserve it, and others would say that it’s wrong. How do we determine who is right and who is wrong?
One mistake that I see a lot of Christians make is that they have this false notion that the Bible is clear on certain matters. It’s not. I heard someone else say this on this site, but two people could read the same passage of scripture and have two, very different, takeaways from that same passage. What does the Bible say on capita punishment? Nothing concrete. You could argue that God trusts the government to make these decisions for us, as God crested the government and we are to abide by that. You could also argue that God never gave the okay for the government to kill prisoners through a faulty system, and to rely on their own human intellect to carry out these executions. You could use both arguments, but how can we determine the truth? Which belief is moral, and which belief isn’t?
You could pray on it, ask the Holy Spirit to lead you to the answer. But then your answer becomes a lot more personal. “I believe this because God told me to believe it, and you should too.” That is something you would hear in a church, but tell that to an atheist, and they’ll arch their brow in pure, utter confusion. It would be no different than an atheist telling you that you should have an abortion because they said so.
So the truth is, morals are arbitrary, and the Bible isn’t as clear as many would like to believe. Christians base their teachings on the Bible. But when you take into account various ethnic backgrounds, history, culture, etc., you realize that different Christians are going to have beliefs different from yours. That is why we have churches, but you can see how vastly different denominations can be.
PloughBoy
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"I am beginning to think that Christians do not understand anything about Good morals or how morals are determine." The title of the thread"
I'm sorry, but i did not mention anything about anything related to "Christianity" or "Religion" or anything relating to the "Word of God".
I thought, i use proper "english syntax". But i did notice i did refer to a group of people and my observation of how they view a certain principle and how that principle come to be.
I'm sorry, but i did not mention anything about anything related to "Christianity" or "Religion" or anything relating to the "Word of God".
I thought, i use proper "english syntax". But i did notice i did refer to a group of people and my observation of how they view a certain principle and how that principle come to be.
ForeverinHim
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You're contradicting yourself. In both the title and comment below, you refer to Christians and how you feel as if they don’t understand The standard for morality, then you’re saying that you didn’t refer to a group of people. Then you admit that you did...?
Can you please be a bit more clear?
PloughBoy
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Ok , "English syntax" again. Easy miss sometimes.
You said I said: "then you're saying that you didn't refer to a group of people.".......I did not say that.
I said: "But I did notice I did refer to a group of people and my observation of how they view a certain principle and how that principle come to be".
"Languages have different syntax and we must stay in the syntax of that language to rightly understand the context in which it is written.
So I will try to make it a little clearer, we'll have what we call "morals", bad morals, good morals, of the culture of all kinds of communities.
Now we have, I would say: " biblical morals, that arrive from the Bible" and we choose which ones we keep and which ones we discard according to that group believes, either "Christian or non-Christian" . Then we have "Christian Morals" that only can a true Christian can see and have the power to pursuit that standard by the power of the "Holy Ghost".
So why would a true Christian even think a person that does not have the power of the "Holy Spirit" in them to meet the Standards of a "Christians Morality"! And ask them and try to teach that standard to a group that does not have the power to do so! You must know what "morals" are and how they are determine before you can be a effective witness about the "Gospel of Jesus Christ". If you care to remember, Apostle Paul had this strong argument with Apostle Peter, when he stood him to the face! In the book of "The Acts of The Apostles"!
I hope that gave a little bit more clarity.
Brother-Paul
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If they truly follow Jesus and try their hardest to be like Him, they will have morals like Him.
Ephesians 4:17-32 (NKJV)
17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,
18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart;
19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ,
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts,
23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind,
24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
25 Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another.
26 "Be angry, and do not sin": do not let the sun go down on your wrath,
27 nor give place to the devil.
28 Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need.
29 Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers.
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor, and evil speaking be put away from you, with all malice.
32 And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you.
If we are not following Jesus, yet call ourselves Christians, how can we be Christians?
I would say it depends whether we are Christians or call ourself Christians, it depends on whether we are truly born again or think we are, it depends whether we are following Jesus and aiming to be like Him, if we are not...
20 But you have not so learned Christ.
If we are in Christ and Christ in us, we will have good morals, if we are not clothed in Christ our understanding is darkened, we alienate ourself from God. I think the above verses give a good reply to your question brother. I must admit I wondered at first had you had a bad experience with a so called Christian, seeing as it was yourself asking this question scripture was needed brother, The answers are in The Word. The Truth is in The Word.
Shalom
NYQueens977
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Think of it like this:
You have two tribes that are constantly killing each other. As more people are dying, the tribes are beginning to see their numbers decrease. So the two tribes come to an agreement, one tribe will be in charge of hunting, the other will be in charge of health or taking care of the women and children. The two tribes eventually see that when they aren't busy killing each other, they're prosperous and have better odds for survival on both ends. After realizing this, they decide that killing each other isn't beneficial to their society, and is therefore defined as wrong.
Here's another example:
You have mothers who would beat and berate their children, and mothers that smile and play with their children, and treat them well and even surprise their kids with a gift to boost moral. The mothers who beat and berate their children raise kids who are useless to society, either because they beat or hurt other members of their society, or are so emotionally broken that they can't even function. However, the mothers who treat their kids well raise kids to be useful for that society. The kids that were raised well live longer, are emotional sound, and will even put others before themselves. Society then sees that mothers who raise their kids tenderly, with love, are a necessity for human survival, so mothers who don't show love towards their children are outcasted, seen as taboo, and alienated, as they threaten the conditions of a stable society.
Okay, so here's another hypothetical:
You're a man who has been shown by your parents how to give gifts, think about others, and make other people feel good. You may learn from experience what doesn't feel good, like getting burned from flames, or having a friend betray your trust, and would not like for anyone else to feel this kind of hurt. You know how to hurt others, and may be called to hurt others for defense, but you generally wouldn't, not when it's uncalled for. So what's keeping this man from raping the lovely young lady across the street? It's the basic obligation to fellow a fellow human not to hurt her. That's it. You don't want to hurt her because you recognize that she is a human being, just like you are, and that is enough for a lot of people. People who don't comply to this rational are effectively alienated from society because they are a threat to maintain peace, and therefore a threat against society, and are therefore either jailed, ostracized, or both.
Okay, but why do we value monogamous relationships over polyamorous relationships? Well, people may have learned over time that people in monogamous relationships live longer.
What about slavery? We realized after thousands upon thousands of years that people who are different from us doesn't mean that they are less than us. We also learned that slavery is not beneficial for society and human progress. The North, for example, saw the value in having paid servants and workers, and made the switch from slavery to paid labor. The South, however, was culturally and economically bound to slavery, which is why they were so stubborn and threatened to leave the union.
Say that you discover that there really is no god. What do you do? Since you are no longer morally obligated to a god, are you just going to go around and rape and kill a bunch of people? Of course not! If you discover that there is no god, you become morally obligated to your fellow man.
Long story made short, our morality is learned based off of what works in favor of humanity.
But what does the Bible say about morality? Well, the Bible made a bunch of laws that clearly reflects what is beneficial to the Israelite/Jewish society at the time. In Leviticus, for example, it was morally unacceptable to shave, wear two types of linen cloth, and boil a goat in its mother's milk. In the new testament, it's morally unacceptable for a woman to speak up in church, or to work for the Pharisees. Then there are the universal laws that everyone agrees is wrong for reasons I stated above, such as not to kill or hurt others (except for rape, the bible seems fine with rape as long as the man pays the father of the woman and marries her, and slavery, slavery is also fine in the Bible as long as they're from foreign nations, but then again, what slaves aren't from foreign nations?)
So what I'm trying to say is that the Bible, in which your question implies where we should get our morality from, is not as clear cut, case in point about morality as you may think.
You have two tribes that are constantly killing each other. As more people are dying, the tribes are beginning to see their numbers decrease. So the two tribes come to an agreement, one tribe will be in charge of hunting, the other will be in charge of health or taking care of the women and children. The two tribes eventually see that when they aren't busy killing each other, they're prosperous and have better odds for survival on both ends. After realizing this, they decide that killing each other isn't beneficial to their society, and is therefore defined as wrong.
Here's another example:
You have mothers who would beat and berate their children, and mothers that smile and play with their children, and treat them well and even surprise their kids with a gift to boost moral. The mothers who beat and berate their children raise kids who are useless to society, either because they beat or hurt other members of their society, or are so emotionally broken that they can't even function. However, the mothers who treat their kids well raise kids to be useful for that society. The kids that were raised well live longer, are emotional sound, and will even put others before themselves. Society then sees that mothers who raise their kids tenderly, with love, are a necessity for human survival, so mothers who don't show love towards their children are outcasted, seen as taboo, and alienated, as they threaten the conditions of a stable society.
Okay, so here's another hypothetical:
You're a man who has been shown by your parents how to give gifts, think about others, and make other people feel good. You may learn from experience what doesn't feel good, like getting burned from flames, or having a friend betray your trust, and would not like for anyone else to feel this kind of hurt. You know how to hurt others, and may be called to hurt others for defense, but you generally wouldn't, not when it's uncalled for. So what's keeping this man from raping the lovely young lady across the street? It's the basic obligation to fellow a fellow human not to hurt her. That's it. You don't want to hurt her because you recognize that she is a human being, just like you are, and that is enough for a lot of people. People who don't comply to this rational are effectively alienated from society because they are a threat to maintain peace, and therefore a threat against society, and are therefore either jailed, ostracized, or both.
Okay, but why do we value monogamous relationships over polyamorous relationships? Well, people may have learned over time that people in monogamous relationships live longer.
What about slavery? We realized after thousands upon thousands of years that people who are different from us doesn't mean that they are less than us. We also learned that slavery is not beneficial for society and human progress. The North, for example, saw the value in having paid servants and workers, and made the switch from slavery to paid labor. The South, however, was culturally and economically bound to slavery, which is why they were so stubborn and threatened to leave the union.
Say that you discover that there really is no god. What do you do? Since you are no longer morally obligated to a god, are you just going to go around and rape and kill a bunch of people? Of course not! If you discover that there is no god, you become morally obligated to your fellow man.
Long story made short, our morality is learned based off of what works in favor of humanity.
But what does the Bible say about morality? Well, the Bible made a bunch of laws that clearly reflects what is beneficial to the Israelite/Jewish society at the time. In Leviticus, for example, it was morally unacceptable to shave, wear two types of linen cloth, and boil a goat in its mother's milk. In the new testament, it's morally unacceptable for a woman to speak up in church, or to work for the Pharisees. Then there are the universal laws that everyone agrees is wrong for reasons I stated above, such as not to kill or hurt others (except for rape, the bible seems fine with rape as long as the man pays the father of the woman and marries her, and slavery, slavery is also fine in the Bible as long as they're from foreign nations, but then again, what slaves aren't from foreign nations?)
So what I'm trying to say is that the Bible, in which your question implies where we should get our morality from, is not as clear cut, case in point about morality as you may think.
Everything points to the coming of Jesus Christ to be our Messiah. He Has come -- He has died on the cross and risen again bodily on the 3rd day. His blood has been shed for all of us. This brides the gap between God and us / mankind.
He wants relationship with us. God started out this world with one man and one woman -- He created us with the ability to give birth to extend the human race - generation by generation in context of 'family'. Family meaning husband and wife and children. Biblical morality says that sexual intimacy is to be tween one man and one woman. Everyone Else is to be celebate until marriage.
If you'll look at some of these in context -- In Corinth -- I'm thinking that's the situation where some of the women were speaking up and being disruptive during the service. So -- please be quiet during the service and ask questions later. Sounds very reasonable.
He wants relationship with us. God started out this world with one man and one woman -- He created us with the ability to give birth to extend the human race - generation by generation in context of 'family'. Family meaning husband and wife and children. Biblical morality says that sexual intimacy is to be tween one man and one woman. Everyone Else is to be celebate until marriage.
If you'll look at some of these in context -- In Corinth -- I'm thinking that's the situation where some of the women were speaking up and being disruptive during the service. So -- please be quiet during the service and ask questions later. Sounds very reasonable.
PloughBoy
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To address the title thread, this is what it said: "
"I am beginning to think that Christians do not understand anything about Good morals or how morals are determine."
People and culture determine "Morals" God didn't. God has nothing to do do with morals, God establish His commandments to show that "We are Sinners" and need a "Savior"! God establish HIs laws to show that we all are evil! And If you do not believe that He sent HIS Son to SAVED your soul! You will perish into eternal damnation! There is none righteous no not one, and your morals that you have establish do not mean everything is ok. "I come not to call the righteous but sinners to Repentance" It is stated in the word of God, God created the laws to show we all Are sinners. Jesus, came to show you are sinners.
Unless your view point is "Pelagian"
God did not establish morals, people did by their own standards. In light of the thread, many christians think by the actions of some people that they are immoral but in actuality they are not. What can be right morally might be considered immoral wrong by another culture & groups that has it own guide lines within that society.
Now we have the standard of God law concerning sin [missing the mark]. mind you, what is considered SIN not addressing good morals, there is a difference between the two.
Good News Translation
What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added in order to show what wrongdoing is, and it was meant to last until the coming of Abraham's descendant, to whom the promise was made. The Law was handed down by angels, with a man acting as a go-between. (Galatians 3:19).
The thread was just clarifying "christians and the worlds" view point on morals and not to get the two confused, so there might be some kind of unity for us in understanding.
"I am beginning to think that Christians do not understand anything about Good morals or how morals are determine."
People and culture determine "Morals" God didn't. God has nothing to do do with morals, God establish His commandments to show that "We are Sinners" and need a "Savior"! God establish HIs laws to show that we all are evil! And If you do not believe that He sent HIS Son to SAVED your soul! You will perish into eternal damnation! There is none righteous no not one, and your morals that you have establish do not mean everything is ok. "I come not to call the righteous but sinners to Repentance" It is stated in the word of God, God created the laws to show we all Are sinners. Jesus, came to show you are sinners.
Unless your view point is "Pelagian"
God did not establish morals, people did by their own standards. In light of the thread, many christians think by the actions of some people that they are immoral but in actuality they are not. What can be right morally might be considered immoral wrong by another culture & groups that has it own guide lines within that society.
Now we have the standard of God law concerning sin [missing the mark]. mind you, what is considered SIN not addressing good morals, there is a difference between the two.
Good News Translation
What, then, was the purpose of the Law? It was added in order to show what wrongdoing is, and it was meant to last until the coming of Abraham's descendant, to whom the promise was made. The Law was handed down by angels, with a man acting as a go-between. (Galatians 3:19).
The thread was just clarifying "christians and the worlds" view point on morals and not to get the two confused, so there might be some kind of unity for us in understanding.
B-A-C
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I believe "the Law" (God's Law) is what defines good morals.
Take the 10 commandments for example. Do the opposite of what they say.
Lie whenever you can.
Have an affair on your spouse whenever you can.
Steal whenever you can.
Kill people whenever you can.
Worship other gods whenever you can.
Dishonor your mother and father whenever you can.
Hate God whenever you can, and hate your neighbors whenever you can.
Would you say this is morality? (Unfortunately many in the world are doing a pretty good job here)
Now of course there was sin in the world before the Law came.
Rom 5:13; for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
But it wasn't held against people. It is because of "the Law" that we even know what sin is.
Rom 3:20; because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
The law was given so we would know what sin is.
Rom 7:9; I was once alive apart from the Law; but when the commandment came, sin became alive and I died;
Gal 3:24; Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
Isa 5:20; Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness; Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
2Tim 3:13; But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.
1Jn 2:3; By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4; The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;
I will say bluntly... with that verse in mind... I have met many liars. Many even here on TalkJesus.
B-A-C
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[NLT]
Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15; They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
We could go by these, but Jesus preached an even harder version.
Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Matt 15:4; "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
There are more... but these should be enough examples.
Rom 2:12; When the Gentiles sin, they will be destroyed, even though they never had God’s written law. And the Jews, who do have God’s law, will be judged by that law when they fail to obey it.
Rom 2:13; For merely listening to the law doesn’t make us right with God. It is obeying the law that makes us right in his sight.
Rom 2:14; Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it.
Rom 2:15; They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right.
1Cor 7:19; Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.
Rom 13:9; For this, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, YOU SHALL NOT MURDER, YOU SHALL NOT STEAL, YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, it is summed up in this saying, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."
We could go by these, but Jesus preached an even harder version.
Matt 5:21; "You have heard that the ancients were told, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER' and 'Whoever commits murder shall be liable to the court.'
Matt 5:22; "But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell.
Matt 5:27; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
Matt 5:28; but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Matt 5:43; "You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.'
Matt 5:44; "But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Matt 7:23; "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'
Matt 15:4; "For God said, 'HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER,' and, 'HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.'
There are more... but these should be enough examples.
PloughBoy
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What about people and christians who "Gossip" how deadly are these sins? Since so many people or churches do not address so much.
16There are six things which the LORD hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
18A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
19A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.
Now days christians do not know what wicked plans are. plotting right there in the church for tomorrow night.
16There are six things which the LORD hates,
Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17Haughty eyes, a lying tongue,
And hands that shed innocent blood,
18A heart that devises wicked plans,
Feet that run rapidly to evil,
19A false witness who utters lies,
And one who spreads strife among brothers.
Now days christians do not know what wicked plans are. plotting right there in the church for tomorrow night.
Brother-Paul
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"I am beginning to think that Christians do not understand anything about Good morals or how morals are determine."
Amen
I often wonder when people say these sort of things where they are with God.
So many think they are Christians, say they are Christians, but are not born again.
The comments regarding peoples morals so often come from unsaved souls, you are a Christian and you do this or say that.
A true Christian knows God, a true Christian has the spirit of the Lord in them, a true Christian knows they will sin, they will aim not to but they will sin. How quick the world is to criticise Christians when they do or say something wrong. The devil is always waiting, you think you are righteous and you do this or that. None of us is truly righteous, but we aim not to sin, we repent when we do and aim not to do it again, we practice righteousness but will never achieve full righteousness in this life.
Churches kuriakon's are made up of the ekklesia, the born again souls, the body of Christ, and lost souls who go to church kuriakon and think they are saved. So in essence the Church building, the place of worship as we see it today consists of those who belong to the Lord and those that belong to satan! The devil is in the place!
Is it not surprising that even in the place of worship these things are going to happen, and how many go to a church building, place of worship, then as soon as they leave the place are back to six and a half days of 'worldly ways'.
Add to this the age we live, people have little respect for others, there is a hardening of hearts, increase in wickedness, people are lovers of themselves. We only need to look at social media, the attitude club I call it, breading opinions.
I agree totally with my dear brother above...
Shalom
Amen
I often wonder when people say these sort of things where they are with God.
So many think they are Christians, say they are Christians, but are not born again.
The comments regarding peoples morals so often come from unsaved souls, you are a Christian and you do this or say that.
A true Christian knows God, a true Christian has the spirit of the Lord in them, a true Christian knows they will sin, they will aim not to but they will sin. How quick the world is to criticise Christians when they do or say something wrong. The devil is always waiting, you think you are righteous and you do this or that. None of us is truly righteous, but we aim not to sin, we repent when we do and aim not to do it again, we practice righteousness but will never achieve full righteousness in this life.
Churches kuriakon's are made up of the ekklesia, the born again souls, the body of Christ, and lost souls who go to church kuriakon and think they are saved. So in essence the Church building, the place of worship as we see it today consists of those who belong to the Lord and those that belong to satan! The devil is in the place!
Is it not surprising that even in the place of worship these things are going to happen, and how many go to a church building, place of worship, then as soon as they leave the place are back to six and a half days of 'worldly ways'.
Add to this the age we live, people have little respect for others, there is a hardening of hearts, increase in wickedness, people are lovers of themselves. We only need to look at social media, the attitude club I call it, breading opinions.
I agree totally with my dear brother above...
Shalom
Brother-Paul
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- Messages
- 4,002
So true brother.
No one on earth has ever managed to come up with a few laws, a few commands, that can fit into most situations.
The Jews couldn't do it look at the number of laws they had.
The world today cannot do it, one law rests on another, if we joined them up and linked them together they would go round the world many times, and still wouldn't solve the issues. Lets make a new law!
All the issues in the world are because people will not accept what sin is, so they try get round it with 'man made laws'
The law was given so we would know what sin is.
The Bible tells us that the law was given to Moses, to give to man, so that all of us would know what God considers as sin.
God's intention was and still is, to tell mankind He hates sin, and that we should avoid those things because sin leads to death.
Shalom
Bob Carabbio
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- Aug 21, 2019
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The Bible doesn't DO "Morals", which are nothing more than The opinions du jour of this or that human Society about what's "Right and Wrong" / "Good or Bad".
In the United States, for example, it's MORAL to murder an unborn Baby, and sell its dis-articulated components for profit. It used to be that the procedure magically became "Immoral" after the second trimester, but that's changing (the older the baby is, the more money it's components are worth).
The Bible deals with SIN, and RIGHTEOUSNESS and defines both rather exactly, for those who actually BOTHER to read it.
Well -- there are those who don't want to hear Biblical morality / ethics -- it's not that God's Word doesn't teach it - because The Bible / God's Word definitely Does teach morals / ethics -- 'we' tend to want to do our own thing , our own way and let the other person pay the negative results.
I'm also in Texas -- it's Never been okay to murder an unborn baby. The law might say it is -- but there are more and more people who are realizing that babies are viable a Long time before they are born.
It's always a good thing to present a positive position on Biblical matters.
I'm also in Texas -- it's Never been okay to murder an unborn baby. The law might say it is -- but there are more and more people who are realizing that babies are viable a Long time before they are born.
It's always a good thing to present a positive position on Biblical matters.
Bob Carabbio
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Of course. "Morals", and "Ethics" are completely subjective, highly flexible, and are determinaed by the mores of the society that generates them.
The Bible doesn't concern itself with "Morals" or "Ethics". only with SIN, and RIghteousness as determined by God, and unrelated to "Man's opinion" of what's right and what's unacceptable.
PloughBoy
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Morality is subjective.
The culture where the people live within, decides morals.
And when GOD decided to created a people of His own. He Gave His people 1. His Moral LAWS 2. His Ceremony Laws 3. His Judicial Laws and They were to be Obeyed.
If you think i am wrong just read "The Books of The Law of GOD" in the Bible "that consist"of this Collection: "GENESIS, EXODUS, LEVITiCUS, NUMBERS and DEUTERONOMY".
And i do not have to defend "The Moral Law of GOD" in the Old And the New. The Bible will defend itself.
Note; The Title Thread:
"I am beginning to think that Christians do not understand anything about Good morals or HOW morals ARE DETERMINE."
