Is Church Tithing an Abomination to God, or Unbiblical?

[Simon]

Dear W4F,

I will only address two issues in your post for now:

A. Tithing was around from the beginning, even before the law of Moses.

There are only two references to any sort of tithe prior to the law of Moses:

1. Jacob promised to give 10% of his wealth IF GOD BLESSED HIM.
It looks like Jacob kept this promise by giving a lot of flocks to his brother.

2. Abraham gave 10% of the spoils of a single battle to MelchizedeK.
He did not give 10% of his income, he did not give 10% of his assets or wealth, he only gave 10% of the spoils of a single battle.
This was a one time event, with no other recorded tithe.
By the way, Abraham gave the other 90% to pagan king, the King of Sodom.

B. The tithe has Not Ever been apart of the law.

I am shocked that you would even attempt to state this, in caps no less!
Brief lesson on the law:
There are two great commandments.
Then there are the ten commandments, five are about loving God, five are about loving your neighbor (they are drawn from the two and give us more instruction).
Then there are 613 Old Testament written laws, which are a further outworking of the 10 commandments.
Of the 613 OT laws, a quick look identifies several dozen of the 613 directly address tithing.
Then there's the oral tradition that is not necessarily Biblical.

Even Jesus called tithing a part of the law:

“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you tithe mint and dill and cumin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faithfulness.
These you ought to have done, without neglecting the others"

Please note: They tithed according to the law, CROPS ONLY, their herb gardens.

peace
Simon

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Dear W4F,

I find it interesting that you have not reprimanded other people on this thread who have 'pushed their pro-tithing personal beliefs'.
It makes it seem like your true agenda is to muzzle my point of view...

Peace,
Simon

It's your thread.
You quoted me
Kind of seems right

 

[amadeus2]

If tithing is a necessity, perhaps all of us should think about it in regard to all that God has given us? The question we might ask of ourselves, of all that is good, what has He not given us? The following verse would seem to be asking for more than 10% from us:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

So going with percentages of things, how about time?

According to the clock that most of us, if not all of us, live by, there are 168 hours in each week. How many of us give as much as 16.8 hours per week to God alone? If we do sit on a church pew for a couple of hours a week, is even all of that time given to God? Or are our thoughts wandering beyond the time of the service to things happening outside of the church doors?

So if not while sitting on a pew, perhaps each of us is giving 10% of his/her time to prayer and reading the Bible and other things for God alone each day. That comes out to almost 2½ hours per day. Even if we can take credit for a little pew time with God, are we making it our 10% or are we using all of the time for me and mine [even though we each may ask, what is really mine]?

The truth of the matter, is that none of us owns anything yet that is ours alone to give. Are we not stewards of all that God has put into our possession? Will we not remain stewards until we with Jesus have inherited? [This is presuming that we are heirs who will inherit.]

This is why our reasonable service is not limited to just a part of what we possess. We belong to God 100%.

Remember this lady?

"And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing.

And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living." Mark 12:42-44

Where is all of our living? Where our 100%?

Give God the glory!

 

[B-A-C]

Tithing may not be required, but even if it isn't. I challenge anyone to show me it's an "abomination" to God.
I don't think God is going to punish anyone for giving to the church or missions.

Even Cain and Abel gave offerings to God.
Gen 4:3; So it came about in the course of time that Cain brought an offering to the LORD of the fruit of the ground.
Gen 4:4; Abel, on his part also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of their fat portions. And the LORD had regard for Abel and for his offering;

Mat 22:21; They *said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He *said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

 

[Simon]

Tithing may not be required, but even if it isn't. I challenge anyone to show me it's an "abomination" to God.
I don't think God is going to punish anyone for giving to the church or missions."

Challenge taken:
Why did God destroy (punish) Sodom?
Their wickedness certainly, but God says a reason was that they did not help the poor and needy.

49 "'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel 16:49 (NIV)

Here's where a typical tithe goes:
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Meanwhile, some Pastors that preach tithing are living in mansions, and even have private jets...
Does the US have 100,000 church buildings that are empty more than 6 days a week, while there's poverty and homelessness all around?

---

Mat 22:21; They *said to Him, "Caesar's." Then He *said to them, "Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."

Strange that you would reference this scripture which clearly says that money belongs to Ceasar not God, but give to God what is God's.

But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, "Why put me to the test, you hypocrites?
Show me the coin for the tax." And they brought him a denarius.
And Jesus said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?"
They said, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
Mat 22:18-21

Simon

 

[amadeus2]

Here's where a typical tithe goes:
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Meanwhile, some Pastors that preach tithing are living in mansions, and even have private jets...
Does the US have 100,000 church buildings that are empty more than 6 days a week, while there's poverty and homelessness all around?

Typical is one thing, but what is for God may indeed be another, no?

My dear old pastor lives on almost nothing. I know, because I organize all of his personal financial records regularly. His main expense is traveling to visit those in his own congregation and attending other assemblies to share what he has from God and/or to receive what they have. Most of his travel is done by himself alone driving his own car. He is 91 years old, a widower, and he lives only for God. He lives in a tiny very old mobile home behind the small church building. The amount of staff salaries is effectively nil.

Is this unusual? Perhaps not as many know what Jesus really taught as some people may believe.

Describing what is wrong, does not tell anyone what is right, does it?

---

Strange that you would reference this scripture which clearly says that money belongs to Ceasar not God, but give to God what is God's.

But Jesus, aware of their malice, said, "Why put me to the test, you hypocrites?
Show me the coin for the tax." And they brought him a denarius.
And Jesus said to them, "Whose likeness and inscription is this?"
They said, "Caesar's." Then he said to them, "Therefore render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."
Mat 22:18-21

Simon

Actually everything, including that which some may designate as Caesar's, belongs to God. We, all of us, are only stewards until such time as we have inherited. Reconsider what Jesus meant by His words.

 

[Hekuran]

Pastors and church leaders I know live on modest means.

I think the debate around tithing largely unhelpful. Discipleship is surrendering every part of our lives to Christ. Splitting hairs over 10 per cent seems to miss the point.

 

[B-A-C]

Challenge taken:
Why did God destroy (punish) Sodom?
Their wickedness certainly, but God says a reason was that they did not help the poor and needy.

49 "'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
Ezekiel 16:49 (NIV)

Here's where a typical tithe goes:
50% Staff salaries
30% Building
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

None of this says offerings and tithings are an abomination. I agree we should give to the needy, but tithing doesn't
stop us from doing that. By the way, that wasn't the only thing Sodom and Gomorrah were punished for.

 

[amadeus2]

None of this says offerings and tithings are an abomination. I agree we should give to the needy, but tithing doesn't
stop us from doing that. By the way, that wasn't the only thing Sodom and Gomorrah were punished for.

Amen! Misusing money intended by the giver for God's work may to be an abomination but the worst blame to placed on the giver is a lack of discernment. We all need to pay closer attention to what God is saying to us NOW.

 

[Simon]

None of this says offerings and tithings are an abomination. I agree we should give to the needy, but tithing doesn't
stop us from doing that. By the way, that wasn't the only thing Sodom and Gomorrah were punished for.

I was not addressing offerings, I was only addressing tithing, the churches claim of entitlement to 10% of your income.
Offerings are another issue. Why don't pastors ask us to bring cash into church and burn it before God?

The modern church tithing scam absolutely DOES stop the majority of Christians from truly helping the needy.
Their conscience is appeased, they feel vindicated for giving so much money to the church.
People have been made to feel more 'Holy' supporting the pastor rather than a needy relative.
People feel more more pious 'supporting' a child they've never met in a foreign land rather than a child they know.

It's a bait and switch, because the reality is:

50% Staff salaries
30% Building (empty 6+ days a week)
10% Missionary (salaries)
0.05% Direct help for the poor (if they're lucky)

Are you not PROTESTants?
Don't you know that the Reformation was mostly because the church was scamming parishioners out of money.
Money for indulgences, to appease their conscience.
Money to construct large buildings for God.
Money to support the 'Holy' clergy in a lifestyle beyond their flock.

Most of Martin Luther's 95 Thesis is about how Christians are made to feel like they are paying money for God's favour.

Here is some wisdon taken from Luther's 95 Thesis:

• Christians are to be taught that the pope does not intend that giving to the church should in any way be compared with works of mercy.

• Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who gives to the church.

• Because love grows by works of love, man thereby becomes better. Man does not, however, become better by means of giving to the church…

• Christians are to be taught that he who sees a needy man and passes him by, yet gives his money to the church, does not buy God’s favour but God’s wrath.

• Christians are to be taught that, unless they have more than they need, they must reserve enough for their family needs and by no means squander it on the church.

• Christians are to be taught that giving to the church is a matter of free choice, not commanded.

Simon

 

[Lanolin]

Um just addressing the title post..I dont think its an abomination in the way that homosexuality is described as abomination but the way its done in some churches is pretty much fleecing the flock.

Tithing was biblical in the OT though, and it was food and produce not money. The pharisees were so particular they tithed their herbs.

 

[Simon]

Amen! Misusing money intended by the giver for God's work may to be an abomination but the worst blame to placed on the giver is a lack of discernment. We all need to pay closer attention to what God is saying to us NOW.

Jesus placed the worst blame on the deceivers not the deceived:

"Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces
and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts,
who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."
Mar 12:38b-40


Simon

 

[Dave M]

Mark 12:42
The Widow's Offering
41As Jesus was sitting opposite the treasury, He watched the crowd placing money into it. And many rich people put in large amounts. 42Then one poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amounted to a small fraction of a denarius. 43Jesus called His disciples to Him and said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury.

Seems Jesus like those that tithe the bible says a lot about givers and its all good.
Hebrews 13:16
Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.

Luke 6:38
Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Acts 20:35 ESV
In all things I have shown you that by working hard in this way we must help the weak and remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he himself said, ‘It is more blessed to give than to receive.’

 

[Curtis]

There are those in Church leadership today who cause the way of righteousness to be "evil" spoken of because of their constantly asking for money. Asking for money is not bad because your local Church needs to be supported by it's members. It is the "love" of money that's bad, and the constant asking for more shows where their heart really is. Everything spoken of in the bible can be taken to extreme no matter what it is. One of the reasons why people do not like to give of their money is because Money = time you spent getting it, and time = life!!! Money = life that we spent getting it. Giving money is like giving up some of your life which many do not want to do.

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets in Israel, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will cleverly teach destructive heresies and even deny the Master who bought them. In this way, they will bring sudden destruction on themselves.
2Pe 2:2 Many will follow their evil teaching and shameful immorality. And because of these teachers, the way of truth will be slandered.
2Pe 2:3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed. (NLT)

 

[Simon]

Seems Jesus like those that tithe the bible says a lot about givers and its all good.

And yet not one of the scriptures you reference mentions the tithe.
They are mostly about generosity or giving to the poor, which not only do I support and encourage, but that is a large part of the reason for this thread.
People have been conned into 'tithing' to support a church building and staff, when they should be helping the poor and needy instead.

Simon

 

[Dave M]

my Church does help the poor and needy, sound like you have been in the wrong church. I will admit the good ones are a lot harder to find then the bad ones.

 

[Dave M]

And yet not one of the scriptures you reference mentions the tithe.
They are mostly about generosity or giving to the poor, which not only do I support and encourage, but that is a large part of the reason for this thread.
People have been conned into 'tithing' to support a church building and staff, when they should be helping the poor and needy instead.

Simon

this is a tithe/offering

Mark 12:42
The Widow's Offering
41As Jesus was sitting opposite the treasury, He watched the crowd placing money into it. And many rich people put in large amounts. 42Then one poo rwidow came and put in two small copper coins, which amounted to a small fraction of a denarius. 43Jesus called His disciples to Him and said, “Truly I tell you, this poor widow has put more than all the others into the treasury.

 

[Simon]

my Church does help the poor and needy, sound like you have been in the wrong church. I will admit the good ones are a lot harder to find then the bad ones.

What percentage of the 'tithe' given to your church goes to help the poor?
For the vast majority it's less than 0.5%

this is a tithe

The Widow's Offering
41As Jesus was sitting opposite the treasury, He watched the crowd placing money into it. And many rich people put in large amounts...

I assure you that this was NOT a tithe.
Tithes were only flocks and crops, have you not read the thread, it was against Biblical law to tithe money.
This was coins given to one of the poor chests, but may have been to purchase sacrifices for the poor.


Simon

 

[Lanolin]

There is a difference between tithes and alms.

 

[amadeus2]

Jesus placed the worst blame on the deceivers not the deceived:

"Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes and like greetings in the marketplaces
and have the best seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at feasts,
who devour widows' houses and for a pretense make long prayers. They will receive the greater condemnation."
Mar 12:38b-40


Simon

Good, better and best...
Or bad, worse and worst.

Once you have learned the difference, the purpose in their usage should not be to confuse people or to win the argument but to clarify if possible for all participants including self.

We are supposed to be moving from "through a glass darkly" to "face to face" rather than to self being right, or more right than everyone else.

God is always right, but every man who is not an overcomer as Jesus was an overcomer is still a liar. That includes me. I am certain that I am not alone.

Help us dear Lord!