Is Ephesians 5:22-33 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." outdated?

[Br. Bear]

I've never seen two Christian men give each other the holy kiss

Greetings,

I have kissed many a brother and to be honest, only a small handful were able to receive it as it should be, for most would react because it is foreign to them.(and/or against their fleshy minds)[we are told to be transformed by the renewing of our minds - and we ought to do so]
In different cultures, people do things differently. Perhaps the western way is to give a handshake? In the areas around the Bible times, a kiss was normal as a greeting.(and still is) The point of a holy kiss could well be referring to the manner and heart of the greeting. Remember Judas Iscariot? Jesus questioned him about greeting Him (at betrayal) with a kiss. [one of the most powerful moments in history]
What i think you will find the thing one needs to understand here is that it is our intention and honestly that is being referred to. Christian men must be true to one another with no pretend or fake love and fellowship.
All over the world men have been fake and inwardly dishonest in their greeting and welcoming others. More so is, they think they are be better than the other but often either because they harbour deceit and unforgiveness and pride and personal gain, preferring that others will think good of them etc, but too often it is the former, namely that they inwardly are not right in their hearts. The admonition by the Apostle was to remind men to walk uprightly without guile or self interest; to remember that when they come together they must re-order their lives; Jesus first, then the other man then way down the list, themselves.
There are many verses and passages about this throughout Scripture.

So, if you are not up to giving a kiss due to your present inhibitions from your old self, at least greet fellow men with honesty in your heart, which we can only get from the Lord. Honestly doesn't quite do it justice, though. Purity is closer, hence, being set apart for the LORD, being holy. Same as the Apostle admonishes the manner of our conversation.

Throughout the Bible we have many tips about how to do it God's way and a wise man will desire such, regardless of what others think or do.

You might also notice that it does not say in the Bible to greet women with a kiss but most men of the west do. Who do we listen to? the LORD or our old self?(who loves the way of the world)

I would kiss you but given the nature of the internet i shall rather type this....


Bless you ....><>
JESUS IS LORD

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2

 

[Br. Bear]

you might like to watch and listen to this

Michael Card - Why?

Why did it have to be a friend
Who chose to betray the Lord
Why did he use a kiss to show them
That's not what a kiss is for. ........

 

[Sue D.]

Maybe a kiss on the cheek or the forehead. I've never seen that done in the U.S. In times of sorrow or 'whatever' a man putting an arm around another man's shoulder - but Not in an affectionate way.

We know when a line is being crossed.

 

[Harmony]

Really don’t know , these are strange times. Even in the era of Apostle Paul, he said:
26Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this

Take note: “But those who marry will face many troubles in this life and I want to spare you this.” This is true statement that the institutional church will not tell you! A Christian marriage, you will have trouble, you have a enemy and his attack is fierce upon this institution. And the institutional church talks about how to have a happy Christian marriage. Marriage is a battlefield, the enemy forces are those on the outside that are people influenced by the enemy. Family, friends, jobs, the whole world, then everyone’s own selfishness’ the man and the woman, both of them are sinners. Let along the outside world. You have your own lust to fight. And the institutional church is fuelling that frame!

Hi, your two replies talk about wordly things and I think that you miss other more realistic situations like when Christians were persecuted and a wife and children were ammunition to get Christian men to break.
You seem to be focusing on modern unbiblical scenarios and stopping at that but that's ok coz we can all do that which is why we need to help each other.

Men should love their wives whether they think they deserve it or not and women should submit to their own husband whether they think they deserve it or not because it should be about doing what God wants. So whether it is arranged marriages or not both husband and wife must obey the Lord.
He said that His ways are not our ways and our ways are not His ways so everyone who it called by the name of Christ should be doing it His way .
Also, a husband should not expect his wife to submit to him and the wife should not expect her husband to love her and neither of them should demand it or even keep a tally or record against the other unless they want the Lord to keep a tally on them.

So back to my question being, what does wives submit to your own husband look like in real terms today?
Harmony

 

[Sue D.]

It Should be looking like love, respect, honoring each other. Taking care of each other. The marriage vows that they repeat to each other. Usually , no one makes a man and woman come together for marriage. If two people don't want to get married, then Why do that.

God Has created us as sociable human beings. God created in us the desire for having children together. 'Chemistry' between people is a God-given thing. Granted there Can be Bad chemistry -- people to stay away From. But usually it's Good chemistry. And That , also, needs to be appreciated within Godly boundaries.

Submitting to my husband because I Want to. I'm a natural born follower, I value companionship. We're responsible to God 1st and then our own husbands.

And, at This point in my life -- if I had to choose between friendship and sex -- I'd choose friendship. If I'd remarry, he would be my spiritual leader.

There are things about a man that would be apparent long before a marriage relationship was considered. People need to take time to know each other.

 

[Godfearingman777]

As a man I don't understand this. How could anyone let someone rule their lives? I need an answer from a woman. You're fine with your husband's telling you what you can and cannot do? So am I in the right telling my wife she can't work because I'm suppose to be the provider? Is my wife sinning by not submitting to my will? My wife is not submissive at all.

 

[Godfearingman777]

Greetings,

I have kissed many a brother and to be honest, only a small handful were able to receive it as it should be, for most would react because it is foreign to them.(and/or against their fleshy minds)[we are told to be transformed by the renewing of our minds - and we ought to do so]
In different cultures, people do things differently. Perhaps the western way is to give a handshake? In the areas around the Bible times, a kiss was normal as a greeting.(and still is) The point of a holy kiss could well be referring to the manner and heart of the greeting. Remember Judas Iscariot? Jesus questioned him about greeting Him (at betrayal) with a kiss. [one of the most powerful moments in history]
What i think you will find the thing one needs to understand here is that it is our intention and honestly that is being referred to. Christian men must be true to one another with no pretend or fake love and fellowship.
All over the world men have been fake and inwardly dishonest in their greeting and welcoming others. More so is, they think they are be better than the other but often either because they harbour deceit and unforgiveness and pride and personal gain, preferring that others will think good of them etc, but too often it is the former, namely that they inwardly are not right in their hearts. The admonition by the Apostle was to remind men to walk uprightly without guile or self interest; to remember that when they come together they must re-order their lives; Jesus first, then the other man then way down the list, themselves.
There are many verses and passages about this throughout Scripture.

So, if you are not up to giving a kiss due to your present inhibitions from your old self, at least greet fellow men with honesty in your heart, which we can only get from the Lord. Honestly doesn't quite do it justice, though. Purity is closer, hence, being set apart for the LORD, being holy. Same as the Apostle admonishes the manner of our conversation.

Throughout the Bible we have many tips about how to do it God's way and a wise man will desire such, regardless of what others think or do.

You might also notice that it does not say in the Bible to greet women with a kiss but most men of the west do. Who do we listen to? the LORD or our old self?(who loves the way of the world)

I would kiss you but given the nature of the internet i shall rather type this....


Bless you ....><>
JESUS IS LORD

Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
Romans 12:2

I'd kiss my Christian brother if it applied today. Do you make your wife submit to you?

 

[Godfearingman777]

This topic is not sitting well with me. So I'm in the right and my wife is in the wrong? Is that what you're all telling me? I dunno if I should be following this topic anymore? It's getting me upset with my wife all over again. I am the leader. Not her. I should not be expected to compromise?

 

[Godfearingman777]

Numbers 31 tells me that my will is to be heeded over my wives will. I'm done here. I understand perfectly. My wife IS suppose to submit to me. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.

 

[Curtis]

Numbers 31 tells me that my will is to be heeded over my wives will. I'm done here. I understand perfectly. My wife IS suppose to submit to me. Thank you ladies and gentlemen.

A wife will gladly submit to her husband who is submitted to Christ.
If we want God to change our wife or husband he will do it by changing you!

 

[PloughBoy]

Maybe a kiss on the cheek or the forehead. I've never seen that done in the U.S. In times of sorrow or 'whatever' a man putting an arm around another man's shoulder - but Not in an affectionate way.

We know when a line is being crossed.

Men are different today in some churches, they do a lot of kissing one another. They show more love than ever. A friend of mine went to evening service one time, they serve a little wine, and had nice music and men were dancing with one another, women too, didn’t want leave y’all out. He said it was so nice. The atmosphere was so delightful he enjoyed, He is a born again believer, I remember when he got saved. PS. It was a “Lutheran” Church. It was real nice he said. True story. Y’all need to get out a little bit often.

 

[Godfearingman777]

A wife will gladly submit to her husband who is submitted to Christ.
If we want God to change our wife or husband he will do it by changing you!

I am submitted to Christ. I work myself to the bone to keep a roof over our heads, food in our bodies, and cloths on. But my wife refuses to submit to me. It took me years before I exploded. She continues to want to work regardless of my ability to provide for her. How many husband's just go out and buy their wives a brand new car? I love my wife. I would die for her. I'm just confused here. Should I allow her to go back to college? Am I sinning for agreeing to go 50/50 in decision making with her? Am I failing as a husband for compromising with her so she can fullfil her desire? The Bible says the husband leads. Never says both partners have equal say so. But I really do love my wife and I want her to be happy and fulfilled. Even if I would rather have her not working.

I'm sorry for my attitude. I could just use prayer right now. Not judgement. I am only a man. Which makes it impossible to express how I feel and ask for help? I'm not allowed to cry and tremble in fear. I'm not allowed to be human. What would Jesus holy Christ do? Would he really allow my wife to leave her own children to care for others? Or would he make her stay home and take care of her own? I need prayer for wisdom right now. I don't want to lose my wife over submission.

 

[Godfearingman777]

I have prayed about this a lot. And I always get the feeling to have my wife stay home. But then I see the pain in her eyes and I feel doubtful and guilty. She really is a nurturing woman. What would God command? Perhaps I'm not praying right? Or enough? Maybe I should fast and pray?

 

[PloughBoy]

Well, I am glad somebody have found and know the answer and the solution for a happy modern day marriage both of Gods children and the world. It has taken over 2000 years of the Christian faith to get there. Now if I am getting to worldly about my views, I’m just confused, because I know what the bible says: and I can read statistics: and all I have seen myself of marriages! To me the church do not not look good in that arena! But after listening to some of these comments and instructions concerning marriages! The church and the world, we really Need you to show us the way! Y’all need to get busy, Because I finally see the Light!!!! All of you got my Vote!! “The Marital Commission of these United States of America”! In which we will stand! Because, you all, are good, real good with your assessments. You have my vote! But I know by opinion ain’t worth a hill of beans, I’m too worldly. Says “Harmony “ in which I do agree!

 

[Godfearingman777]

Perhaps I should read Ephesians again.

 

[Curtis]

I am submitted to Christ. I work myself to the bone to keep a roof over our heads, food in our bodies, and cloths on. But my wife refuses to submit to me. It took me years before I exploded. She continues to want to work regardless of my ability to provide for her. How many husband's just go out and buy their wives a brand new car? I love my wife. I would die for her. I'm just confused here. Should I allow her to go back to college? Am I sinning for agreeing to go 50/50 in decision making with her? Am I failing as a husband for compromising with her so she can fullfil her desire? The Bible says the husband leads. Never says both partners have equal say so. But I really do love my wife and I want her to be happy and fulfilled. Even if I would rather have her not working.

I'm sorry for my attitude. I could just use prayer right now. Not judgement. I am only a man. Which makes it impossible to express how I feel and ask for help? I'm not allowed to cry and tremble in fear. I'm not allowed to be human. What would Jesus holy Christ do? Would he really allow my wife to leave her own children to care for others? Or would he make her stay home and take care of her own? I need prayer for wisdom right now. I don't want to lose my wife over submission.

There is no fear in love because perfect love casts out all fear. Whoever fears has not been made perfect in love. (1 John 4:18)
God is love so it would not be your love for your wife, but God-loving her through you. This is not easy to do because we always want to be in control of everything. It is not until we lose our control (become weak) that God takes control.

Paul talking about the troubles he was having and God said to him.......

2Co 12:8 Three different times I begged the Lord to take it away.
2Co 12:9 Each time he said, “My grace is all you need. My power works best in weakness.” So now I am glad to boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ can work through me.
2Co 12:10 That’s why I take pleasure in my weaknesses, and in the insults, hardships, persecutions, and troubles that I suffer for Christ. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

 

[Godfearingman777]

I need to leave this thread. It is making me feel things I don't want to feel.

 

[PloughBoy]

I have lectured about families , training of children in christians homes and the Christian Marriage and love the different types ! When my kids were babies! They are all grown now.

. Unless the LORD builds the house, its builders labor in vain; unless the LORD protects the city, its watchmen stand guard in vain.

 

[Godfearingman777]

I need to leave this thread. It is making me feel things I don't want to feel.

Men make mistakes. Sometimes my mom made the better desicion than my father. If it wasn't for my mom the entire household would be dead. True story. My mom literally defended the entire family before. Both my parents had equal say so in every matter big and small. Both worked. Both were very happy with that. No one had more authority than the other. But they were staunch atheists. I'm a married christian man and submission is ruining my marriage. Maybe submission could be how the wife suffers for Christ. One of Eve's punishments was being ruled over by her husband Adam. He even named her.

 

[Godfearingman777]

I'm the leader so I say my wife stays home. Her children are her obligation. Not other people's children. This breaks my heart to hurt her like this. But it's what's best for the family. The commenters are right. No one forced my wife to marry me. She knew all about submission before she married me. But yet she married me anyway. I'm doing the right thing in the end.