Is Ephesians 5:22-33 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord." outdated?

[Godfearingman777]

No more need to follow this thread. My wife and I will have another talk after she wakes up.

 

[Fragrant Grace]

A wife will gladly submit to her husband who is submitted to Christ.
If we want God to change our wife or husband he will do it by changing you!

Greetings @Godfearingman777


As a woman I would agree with brother Curtis here.

It would seem by your own admission on various posts that you have not been a Godly role model for your wife.

But that can change as you work on issues prayerfully seeking the Lord

I know of a wife who loved her husband dearly trusting him as a Godly man.
However, once married, he stopped working leaving her to be the sole breadwinner.
He has never lavished her which is so sad.
Yet still demanding respect a husband.

That marriage has gone cold.......and is sad with no love, no mutual respect and worse still no fellowship because all trust has gone.

Ephesians 5 is still very relevant.
Christ needs to be the centre of every marriage.
I would say it takes the husband to lead as a Christ like role model.
The wife's submission will then be beautifully natural

 

[Godfearingman777]

Greetings @Godfearingman777


As a woman I would agree with brother Curtis here.

It would seem by your own admission on various posts that you have not been a Godly role model for your wife.

But that can change as you work on issues prayerfully seeking the Lord

I know of a wife who loved her husband dearly trusting him as a Godly man.
However, once married, he stopped working leaving her to be the sole breadwinner.
He continued a habit of smoking which is a repulsion to her and the children.
He has never lavished her which is so sad.
Yet still demanding respect a husband.

That marriage has gone cold.......and is sad with no love, no mutual respect and worse still no fellowship because all trust has gone.

Ephesians 5 is still very relevant.
Christ needs to be the centre of every marriage.
I would say it takes the husband to lead as a Christ like role model.
The wife's submission will then be beautifully natural

What if she doesn't think she has to submit? Did you get your husbands permission before becoming a member here? You sound so stupid that you need a man to think for you.

 

[Godfearingman777]

Also wives a told to submit to non Christian husbands. I rest my case.

 

[PloughBoy]

Just curious ,if just be the case of the woman that is describe above, what should she do? I am not talking about a ungodly man Or a godly woman obeying her ungodly husband. I Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[Sue D.]

@Godfearingman777 -- just curious -- how much did you and your wife talk about marriage Before getting married? Each other's expectations Of. What brought the two of you to decide To be married? I'm speaking from the vantage point of being 71 and having been married for 46 yrs. and have 4 grown adult 'children'. We'd agreed before getting married that I'd be a stay-at-home Mom when our kids came along.

My husband never ordered me to do anything. We pretty much worked together. On the Other hand -- there were some years that he was a work-a-holic and I pretty much raised the kids myself.

No marriage is perfect because it's made up of two very non-perfect people. But there Does Need to be honest communication. Sometimes marriage counseling is needed to help work through conflicts that will arise.

It's not the idea of a wife getting her husband's 'permission' to do things. But couples Should know each other's goals in life, likes and dislikes -- basic personalities Long before getting married.

 

[Harmony]

You gotta slow down man. Remember that you are told to love your wife. You are not told to make her submit to you. If you are thinking that you have any rights, think again because without the grace of God who are you? Pray for your wife but do so with a heart that knows God's love and patience with you. Submitting is not you telling her what to do but her being willing to submit because of her love for Jesus and you can not demand that but you can be an example to her and your children of what it looks like to love Jesus.
Let her submit but don't let whether she does or not determine if you have God's peace because you can only have that if you love Him because of knowing His love for you man. If she hasn't got perfect in your eyes you have to get your eyes tested by Jesus because He says she is perfect to God so let Him show her His way the way He wants to show her but remember that you being obedient and submitting your life and will to God will help her see. You want God to be patient with you, right? So you have to be patient with everyone else.
Harmony

 

[Godfearingman777]

Dear sister Sue.

Please give When God Was A Woman a read. You are equal mentally to any man. You weren't created to SUBMIT to the will of anyone. Man or woman or even god!

It's your life. You are an adult. So as long as you are not hurting anyone your life is yours to live your way.
;-)

 

[Godfearingman777]

You gotta slow down man. Remember that you are told to love your wife. You are not told to make her submit to you. If you are thinking that you have any rights, think again because without the grace of God who are you? Pray for your wife but do so with a heart that knows God's love and patience with you. Submitting is not you telling her what to do but her being willing to submit because of her love for Jesus and you can not demand that but you can be an example to her and your children of what it looks like to love Jesus.
Let her submit but don't let whether she does or not determine if you have God's peace because you can only have that if you love Him because of knowing His love for you man. If she hasn't got perfect in your eyes you have to get your eyes tested by Jesus because He says she is perfect to God so let Him show her His way the way He wants to show her but remember that you being obedient and submitting your life and will to God will help her see. You want God to be patient with you, right? So you have to be patient with everyone else.
Harmony

Sister you are in need of a true awakening.

 

[Harmony]

Hey Curtis and Sue and Fragrant Grace, are you content to say that obeying God is according to the conditions that you see fit to make because it sure sounds like it.
Should a man love his wife IF she does this or that or if they obey God or if they submit to their own husband? So should a wife submit to her own husband depending on if he loves her or not because that is what you as Christians are telling the world. Can you see that?
Sure, submitting might be easier and what we think is loving might be easier if the other person is doing what we expect they should be doing or if they make us feel good with worldly and passing things but doing what God says to do is meant to be like the Way Jesus did it and He died doing it while we were yet sinners and completely undeserving.
Harmony

 

[PloughBoy]

If he knew what I knew, he better summit to his wife, and do what what’s she tells him to do! “Because if mama ain’t happy the “whole house” ain’t going to be happy”! If he don’t, he will be singing hymns like “Paul & Silas “ down there with the “Philippians Jailer”!

 

[Harmony]

And Curtis and Sue and Fragrant Grace, I wasn't being rude or judgemental towards you but I think it is important that we who go by the name of Christ remember that others who don't will think about what Christians say and do and so will new Christians. We all have to examine ourselves and see if we are being obedient to God and to ask Him what He thinks. We also need to look after each other but that don't mean that we should agree with things that sounds nice to us because obeying God is not like that. What I read here is you all building each other up on your own foundation and that is sad so I have spoken up for hope you can see what I am trying to say because loving your wife and submitting to your own husband has nothing to do with what they do.
Jesus obeyed and we have to encourage one another to obey also but never more than we are willing to obey ourselves. It is not about being 50/50. It is about each of us being 100% sold out to God because He bought us with a great price.
Do you want to please God or do you want to be pleased by man? Choose God because He chose you even though we were not yet willing to follow Jesus.
Harmony

 

[Harmony]

Sister you are in need of a true awakening.

O.K. Do it your way. God can wait but don't ask Him to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart or to mend your boys when they copy you.
Like I said before, slow down and trust God because He knows what He is doing and under your own admission here you don't know but that is okay because when we come to terms with that we are in a much better place to get trusting God.
Harmony

 

[Harmony]

Fragrant Grace, remember that God has not finished with them both yet.
It you read your Bible, you will see some things that look very sad like how they treated Jesus and Joseph but God had a plan in place. All through the Bible you can read about how God has His plan and we have to trust Him because He knows the plans He has for us so don't be sad but instead trust and obey and pray. Can you do that?
Sure sounds like the wife doesn't respect him if he is demanding it because if she was he would have nothing to demand. You also said she loved him dearly but things changed and she did too so is it that she doesn't understand that love is an ongoing thing that keeps loving despite the changes or other things that don't go to our plans. But she's got to submit to her own husband and he has to love his wife because Jesus gave the example for both.
Harmony

 

[Harmony]

Hi again Fragrant Grace, I keep thinking about what you said about the husband and wife. There must be a reason why the husband stopped working but if there is no trust then he probably won't respond to being asked about it. There is probably more to the story but when it comes to love it shouldn't be measured by the same things that the world measures by and the same with trust.
What a lot of Christians forget is that both love and trust are things God wants us to give Him and that we should not seek it from other people if we don't know how to live it ourselves because if we can't love and trust others it is usually because we don't fully love and trust God for if we did then we could trust Him about trusting others and do our bit in giving what God has given to us. We don't always know why people do what they do but be certain that God does and often there are deeper reasons that we can't see or don't want to acknowledge because it is not the way we are accustomed to think and we ourselves won't submit to God for our deep reasons but Jesus can help us all to follow Him if we are really honest about submitting to God. Husbands loving their wives and wives submitting to their own husband is how they can submit to God and trust Him to heal the past and guide them to victory.
The family needs prayers like we all do! I won't be able to get back online for a little while because I am moving house but I really wanted to share this with you and everyone else who is reading this thread because stories like the one you told us about are often not as clear cut as they first appear and we can jump to the wrong conclusion and find reasons to not obey God but God hasn't finished with us all yet!
Harmony

 

[Sue D.]

Harmony -- are you by any chance a Christian marriage / counselor?! Several years ago I'd been in Biblical counseling for a couple of years. One of the goals was to get my husband to join me in counseling sessions. The counselor would come out to the reception area and say Hi both before and after sessions. After a few weeks - my husband told me that if the intention Was to get him into the counseling room -- to stop wasting our efforts. My husband had been driving me to the appointments because they had been after dark. Then there was an earlier opening available so I changed to that time. After That I was able to drive myself. My husband had been diagnosed with PTSD. I was being helped to know how to deal with some of That. A few years after that -- my husband collapsed and died a few days later from a cerebral hemmorage. He had been a believer and was finally out of his internal misery. He'd been a military man developing PTSD.

God Does need to be in a marriage. As believers, our lives are Not our own. This is in response to another poster.

 

[Harmony]

When people think about submitting they often find it hard to really do often because they have been looking at it the wrong way. What do married people do? Looking back to Adam and Eve we know about the first thing they did was have children and it was almost an expected thing through Bible times that a wife would have children, to the point that some thought it was a curse if they didn't or couldn't. Submitting has much to do with children because as a wife does or does not submit to her own husband, her children will grow and think with that example and before anyone freaks out about that we have to remember that those lessons learned they will take with them into the way they do or don't submit to God so a Christian mother should be able to come at submitting knowing that it isn't for the husbands ego but it is a treasure she can invest in for her children and the same can be said about husbands loving their wives. When we get past ourselves we can see things more clearly and life gets better from there and our choices cease being selfish or self protecting which is also picked up by children but everyone can and should submit to God and honor Him in following His Son.
Harmony

 

[Sue D.]

@Harmony -- it's Also true that Adam and Eve were both communicating with God as well as each other. So when both husband and wife are communicating with God , they will be more in-sinc with each other as well. And parents are the 1st teachers their children have. Babies learn by mimicking. They smile as they see people smiling at them. And children mimic what they see and hear.

I don't think a husbands ego should have anything to do with anything. In their very private life -- the husband and wife get to know each other and what they like and don't like. Whether or not 'ego' is involved ?!

The subject of submission has always been a tricky subject. But it's never been out of date.

 

[Senior Pastor]

To all the Christian men out there. Do NOT take your role of headship too far. It never goes well. I know from experience. I've hurt my poor wife mentally and even physically. Because she wouldn't submit to me. Now I don't know if it is outdated or not. My wife thinks so. If that's not the case then why don't Christian's give each other the holy kiss? My wife would argue that point. She said that if you expect wives to submit to husband's than practice the holy kiss. She knows no Christian man would ever kiss another Christian man. So why should wives still be forced to submit. She said it's cherry picking. Again I'm not sure. I'll look into it more.

The bible states that men are supposed to be more than mere "spiritual leaders" in the household. They are to lead in all things, but do so in a loving way. If female "Christians" are not willing to submit then they can take that up with Jesus when they meet him. If "Christian" men decide not to lead they can also take that up with Jesus when they meet him..

We see many "Christians" around the world expressing words of love for God, but inwardly they are empty. Their profession of faith is not genuine or real. Jesus spoke of this when He said, “This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me” (Matthew 15:8).

 

[Sue D.]

@Senior Pastor -- please define 'leading in All things" and in a loving way. Define 'all things'.