Is Hell just separation from God or a place of horrendous eternal punishment as the Bible states?
- Thread starter Victor Van Heerden
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KingJ
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We already acknowledge His existence. They will acknowledge He is Lord.
That makes them better off. God is better, more righteous, good, loving and holy then any of us.
I don't agree. Do you have a scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the unsaved? God created mankind with intelligence. That convicts. The Holy Spirit works with those who want to work with Him James 4:8.
Another contradictory statement from you. You are just not reading that scripture properly. An omniscient God did not expect humans to go there? Of course He did. He made it when Satan and the angels fell / made initially for them. Not He made it only for them. Atheists use this play on words to discredit God. God sends mere humans to a terrible place meant to house bigger more powerful angels. God is cruel.
Well that is then not free will. Free will can only exist if God limits His omniscience. He limits His omnipotence to allow for wickedness / sin / what He utterly hates to take place. Why not His omniscience to uphold being good? God is good and omniscient. Not only omniscient. If knowing something can be proven to be evil, God does not know it.
If an unsaved person read your post, they will interpret it as God is cruel and no true free will exists. You have completely miss-represented God.
KingJ
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Your idea of conversion is a bit 'crazy'. Correct religion = no hell? I guess many wish that were true :grin:.
I said wickedness in the post you quoted. Not believers. John 3:19 is crystal clear ''This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil.''
The only verse for believers not believing in God's existence is James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
As for Christian belief, belief in Jesus being Lord. Well no Christian will be in hell.
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There are true believers who are fruit-bearing Christians, and there are make-believers who assume the distinction of "Christian". It's like a code word that is acceptable, indicating a new resident is likely a mannerly person.
"Are you a Christian, sir?"
"Well, yes, I was baptized at age 12."
"Oh, good".
That might be the only thing some Christians ever say in their outreach.
I worked a month in a town in Texas where you would be asked if you are a Christian if they didn't know you. In theory everyone there was Christian because that was demanded. In prisons our teams tell apparently every inmate is a Christian. They do say that, but
Luke 13:23-30 (KJV)
23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.
At the Judgement when all the counterfeit "believers" see the Lord of lords, they will like a defeated army kneel to acknowledge who remains as Lord indeed, as many former lords/kings will be kneeling and trembling. That moment will be too late for all of them. Hoping to live in Heaven is not enough. We don't wear labels, but clothes with labels.
B-A-C
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Hmm... I don't of a verse that specifically says we will be in the New Jerusalem forever, but...
Rev 22:1; Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb,
Rev 22:2; in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3; There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
Rev 22:4; they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5; And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
This is still talking about the New Jerusalem that started in the second half of chapter 21. AS far as when the New Jerusalem comes down...
Rev 20:1; Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, holding the key of the abyss and a great chain in his hand.
Rev 20:2; And he laid hold of the dragon, the serpent of old, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years;
Rev 20:3; and he threw him into the abyss, and shut it and sealed it over him, so that he would not deceive the nations any longer, until the thousand years were completed; after these things he must be released for a short time.
Rev 20:4; Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5; The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.
Rev 20:6; Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
The Defeat of Satan
Rev 20:7; When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
Rev 20:8; and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
Rev 20:9; And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.
Rev 20:10; And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
The millennial reign happens on Earth, the New Jerusalem hasn't appeared yet. After the 1,000 years Satan is released for a little while, he gathers up a huge army, but is conquered again for the final time.
Then comes the great White Throne judgment.
Rev 20:11; Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat upon it, from whose presence earth and heaven fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12; And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
Rev 20:13; And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them; and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Rev 20:14; Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15; And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
After the White Throne judgment The New Heaven and the New Earth appear. (I will concede these two events happen at the same time or very closely together)
Rev 21:1; Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2; And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3; And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them,
Rev 21:4; and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away."
Rev 21:5; And He who sits on the throne said, "Behold, I am making all things new." And He *said, "Write, for these words are faithful and true."
Rev 21:6; Then He said to me, "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give to the one who thirsts from the spring of the water of life without cost.
Rev 21:7; "He who overcomes will inherit these things, and I will be his God and he will be My son.
Rev 21:8; "But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
It is only after the millennial reign, the great white throne judgment, and the old heavens and earth are done away with that the New Jerusalem appears.
The voice from the throne says the tabernacle of God will be among men now.
Rev 21:9; Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, "Come here, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb."
Rev 21:10; And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 21:11; having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper.
Rev 21:22; I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
Rev 21:23; And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.
The tabernacle that is among men now is the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb.
Rev 21:27; and nothing unclean, and no one who practices abomination and lying, shall ever come into it, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.
@KingJ -- we've had this conversation before. That which VictorVV was saying is that -- all of a sudden -- when non-believers Do find themselves in hell -- lake of fire -- that they Will - all of a sudden - realize exactly Where they are and Why they are there. And they Will realize that God has been real all the time and that His Word had been exactly true all the time. Except it will be everlastingly Too Late at that point.
Now -- Scripture tells us that NOW is the time to accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. No other time in history will we have this 'choice'. From a person's birth through to his death -- is his / her time. But since no one knows When his/ her time will be gone -- it's Now.
Some of the roles of the Holy Spirit -- one passage would be in John 16 :5 - 16 specifically vs 8 "When He comes , He will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. " -- He convicts a person of their sins. Mankind Is smart -- but sin warps our sense of right and wrong. Since Adam and Eve's time -- we follow satan's lies more easily than God's Word. So -- the Holy Spirit tells our inner being when we need to get more in - line with God's Word.
Oh, so when I see Scripture differently than you do -- I'm simply Not interpreting it correctly. Well -- obviously I don't agree with that.
God Has indeed created the lake of fire Only for satan, the beast and the false prophet. But Because God has All knowledge -- He Alone knows what human beings Will end up in that same place. All Anyone needs to do to stay Out of there is to accept God's way of staying Out. Acknowledging Christ's death, burial and bodily resurrection as being Enough - - no good works on our part -- realizing that we , personally Do need The Savior. That He is the Only Way. Belief in your heart and confessing with your mouth, the Lord Jesus and 'thank you for what you've done for me." and a person Is Saved. Romans 10: 9-10.
Does God Send anyone to hell? Well -- His all-knowledge tells Him who will or won't. But, no, God does Not send anyone to hell. Christ's blood is sufficient for ALL.
You commented about Atheists -- an atheist does not - supposedly believe that God exists. So Why do they feel any need To discredit Him. And - there is Nothing in Scripture that says that 'bigger and more powerful angels' will end up in hell and that mere men won't go there. That God is therefore cruel and they Don't want to accept a cruel God?! That is a bunch of nonsense.
You're referring to the group of angels who rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. Lucifer - the leader of that group became satan and the bunch that were thrown out with him to end up on this earth for a while are the demonic world we hear about these days. We have no clue as to the size and powerfulness of the angelic world. Well -- in the Old Testament there Are instances where angels took on the appearance of men. But we don't really know the size of Those men, either. I'm thinking that they appeared to Abraham. The Sodom and Gomorra situation.
Actually You are doing the misrepresentation -- people DO Need to read God's Word for themselves. Keeping passages in their intended context.
God's justice is pure, holy. It's Sort of like being a parent. We can warn and warn our kids about the dangers of 'whatever' -- and the consequences of 'doing it Anyway'. Well -- are We being the mean parent because our kids decide to do their own thing Anyway? No. They Will end up suffering negative consequences to their negative actions. And God Is grieved when we willfully disregard His warnings. Unfortunately Some parents Don' care what their kids are doing. They Are mean human parents. And, unfortunately, when kids have That kind of parent, they Will assume that God is equally mean. But, they Do need to get into Scripture and learn that 'For God So Loved the world (people) that He Gave ......" And He forgives , many, many times -- over and over again. If we ask Him. He wants us to come to Him with Everything.
Now -- Scripture tells us that NOW is the time to accept Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. No other time in history will we have this 'choice'. From a person's birth through to his death -- is his / her time. But since no one knows When his/ her time will be gone -- it's Now.
Some of the roles of the Holy Spirit -- one passage would be in John 16 :5 - 16 specifically vs 8 "When He comes , He will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment. " -- He convicts a person of their sins. Mankind Is smart -- but sin warps our sense of right and wrong. Since Adam and Eve's time -- we follow satan's lies more easily than God's Word. So -- the Holy Spirit tells our inner being when we need to get more in - line with God's Word.
Oh, so when I see Scripture differently than you do -- I'm simply Not interpreting it correctly. Well -- obviously I don't agree with that.
God Has indeed created the lake of fire Only for satan, the beast and the false prophet. But Because God has All knowledge -- He Alone knows what human beings Will end up in that same place. All Anyone needs to do to stay Out of there is to accept God's way of staying Out. Acknowledging Christ's death, burial and bodily resurrection as being Enough - - no good works on our part -- realizing that we , personally Do need The Savior. That He is the Only Way. Belief in your heart and confessing with your mouth, the Lord Jesus and 'thank you for what you've done for me." and a person Is Saved. Romans 10: 9-10.
Does God Send anyone to hell? Well -- His all-knowledge tells Him who will or won't. But, no, God does Not send anyone to hell. Christ's blood is sufficient for ALL.
You commented about Atheists -- an atheist does not - supposedly believe that God exists. So Why do they feel any need To discredit Him. And - there is Nothing in Scripture that says that 'bigger and more powerful angels' will end up in hell and that mere men won't go there. That God is therefore cruel and they Don't want to accept a cruel God?! That is a bunch of nonsense.
You're referring to the group of angels who rebelled and were kicked out of heaven. Lucifer - the leader of that group became satan and the bunch that were thrown out with him to end up on this earth for a while are the demonic world we hear about these days. We have no clue as to the size and powerfulness of the angelic world. Well -- in the Old Testament there Are instances where angels took on the appearance of men. But we don't really know the size of Those men, either. I'm thinking that they appeared to Abraham. The Sodom and Gomorra situation.
Actually You are doing the misrepresentation -- people DO Need to read God's Word for themselves. Keeping passages in their intended context.
God's justice is pure, holy. It's Sort of like being a parent. We can warn and warn our kids about the dangers of 'whatever' -- and the consequences of 'doing it Anyway'. Well -- are We being the mean parent because our kids decide to do their own thing Anyway? No. They Will end up suffering negative consequences to their negative actions. And God Is grieved when we willfully disregard His warnings. Unfortunately Some parents Don' care what their kids are doing. They Are mean human parents. And, unfortunately, when kids have That kind of parent, they Will assume that God is equally mean. But, they Do need to get into Scripture and learn that 'For God So Loved the world (people) that He Gave ......" And He forgives , many, many times -- over and over again. If we ask Him. He wants us to come to Him with Everything.
KingJ
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They already know Rom 1:20.
Are you implying that for the 4000 years before the Holy Spirit came, nobody was convicted of sin? People landed up in Abraham's Bosom by accident.
You don't see it differently. You don't grasp the context or apply rational thought. You end up opening doors to heresy that you don't close.
You keep saying that. Omniscient + lake of fire + humans go there = God created it for humans and angels. This is a sound equation. It is not my opinion verse yours. You need to show me where that equation is wrong.
So you don't believe in free will.
You cannot confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that Jesus is Lord unless it is revealed to you 1 Cor 12:3 Nobody calls Jesus Lord except by the Holy Spirit. This faith / revelation is only given if you pass God's judgement of your heart and mind Jer 17:9-11 for sincerity of laying your life down Matt 16:24, Rev 2:10, hating what is evil Rom 12:9, true repentance Psalm 51:17.
You are preaching that faith without the Holy Spirit / God saves. That is a type of positive thinking. Cart before the horse. We can teach that to members in a congregation. At a church the Holy Spirit is moving, so many can be saved if they repeat those lines. But when you bash my view, which speaks to the mechanics taking place behind the scenes, you just make me worry about your understanding of Christianity.
Such a contradiction in your line here. If an unsaved person read this they would be so confused.
If you read the last part of the verse you quoted (Psalm 14:1) you will see why.
You did not read my post properly. It is a God-basher argument raised.
There is absolutely nothing like ''parent'' in eternally separating many to hell. God is a parent to us Christians, His children.
I agree with most of this. God gives free will to all and yet many choose to love what is wicked. God will not force them to be with Him. God is good and true free will exists evidenced by the existence of hell and God limiting His omnipotence (hence also omniscience) to uphold true free will. Hence any line like ''God knows who goes to hell'' is simply a failure at grasping the fullness of God and looking at where all the evidence points. It is limiting Him to one word, omniscience. Imagine I did that with my fat sister to a potential boyfriend. '''Please tell me about your sister''. ''Sure, she is fat''.
Victor Van Heerden
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God has declared that “there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust” (Acts 24:15), and “them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt” (Daniel 12:2). God may have wanted all to be saved, but since they “chose” not to be, he must be okay to see them suffer unimaginable pain.
The fact that he can stand by and watch as some of his rebellious creations endure endless eternal anguish and torture - anguish a man or woman could not possibly deserve from a single lifetime of bad deeds, is what makes less like a loving saviour surely. The punishment does NOT fit the crime. As humans we know that.
Victor Van Heerden
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Most good or bad Christians would ever dream of leaving even a small animal to die a prolonged death in the street, much less suffer forever, and yet are compelled to defend and accept God’s employment of this indefensibly merciless treatment of the unsaved. Surely he knew when he created man and gave him an “immortal soul” that this would forever seal the fates of sinners to an eternity of unspeakable miseries. Yet he went right on with our creation anyway. Why have kids if they might be sent to hell. How do reasonable parents handle and even live with the knowledge that their precious off spring might go to hell?
Wired 4 Fishen
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Who are you to question God the creator of life?
If you think God enjoys knowing some of his creation will be punished in hell for eternity, then you really don't know the heart of God.
This entire time of "GRACE" is the Love of God for ALL People. He is more then patient with ALL People.
If God said Everyone Will hear the truth and have the place to make the choice of His Salvation then that's just the way it will be.
People make the choice to REFUSE His Gift of Salvation and it brakes His Heart .
Blessings
Wired 4 Fishen
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They are obedient and bring them up in a Godly Home.
They trust God and Stand on His Word.
Why are you so busy trying to make God and His Ways look bad?
Is it that you want to sin and not be punished or just to lazy to get out there and do your part in getting people right with God?
KingJ
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How do you get unimaginable pain from everlasting contempt?
God has never tortured any of His enemies in the past. You assume He will do this in the future? We don't serve the devil. What scripture you quoting?
His word says that He is just and fair Psalm 25:8. He urges us in His word to judge properly 1 Cor 6:1-8. God is not a man that He should lie Num 23:19.
You are construing a belief that is not there. Miss-representing God. Imagine I did that to you. Miss-represented you to a potential bride you wanted to marry. Would you be impressed with me? Especially when you have laid your life down for that bride! Scripture says 1 John 1:5 The message we have heard from the beginning is that God is light with no darkness in Him at all. Torture, unfair punishment are all the handiwork of people with darkness in them. God has no darkness. His judgement will be fair and fitting.
Many come unstuck with the ''eternal'' part of hell and punishment. We have to grasp that those cast into hell for eternity are sold out to sin. That is the verdict in John 3:19 ''They reject the light because the love the darkness''. God did not make a mistake casting the devil out. God does not mistakes.
Dovegiven
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Rev. 21 leaves no other place to be except the Lake of Fire. If you prefer to live in total darkness you will have to move far away from the New Earth. Those of us preferring light will be in constant proximity to the New Jerusalem, in full view of all that God is, the light of which is all there is, there being no sun since the first heaven will be removed. The oceans will be gone. Also there's....
2 Peter 3:12-14 (KJV)
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
The promise is by prophecy of Isa. 65:17 & 66:22-24. The City of God will light the world, leaving no night anywhere on earth. Now that's a mystery!
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Matthew 25:41-46 (KJV)
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Meanwhile the fallen angels except Satan and some principalities, are chained in a bottomless pit to be released a while after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Wicked men are held in places we can't see, but if their names are not written in the Book of Life, they will be moved by order of God into the Lake burning with fire, and remain there eternally. There is nothing in scriptures to indicate God would say "Time's up, you can come out of that now. Welcome to Heaven." If He let the men out, our justice would include the fallen angels, who can't repent.
Matthew 8:28-29 (KJV)
28 And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.
29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?
The time is coming.
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KingJ
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What are you insinuating with your bold and underlining? Eternal punishment is eternal burning in fire? Like a brazen bull?
Eternal fire and punishment is eternal separation. That is the punishment. The wicked pedophile who does not want to repent, wants to be with children. He will weep and gnash his teeth when he grasps he is not Luke 13:28 and that he is in hell for eternity because he is sold out to his love of sin John 3:19. God is not a mental case that has no ability to dish out fitting punishments for crimes. I like how Job says Job 34:17 ''Shall one who hates justice rule ''. It just shocks me that so many Christians are ok with wicked justice. God is good Psalm 136:1 and tells us to love our enemies Matt 5:44. Many that go to hell did just not make the cut 1 Pet 4:18. They are not all as wicked as the next. Rom 2:6 Each shall be rewarded according to what they have done. Luke 13:28 They weep and gnash their teeth because they look up and see God and the prophets. That is their fire.
Brazen bull - Wikipedia Stories allege after finishing construction on the execution device, Perillos said to Phalaris: "His screams will come to you through the pipes as the tenderest, most pathetic, most melodious of bellowings." Perillos believed he would receive a reward for his invention. Instead, Phalaris, who was disgusted by these words, ordered its horn sound system to be tested by Perillos himself, tricking him into getting in the bull. When Perillos entered, he was immediately locked in and the fire was set, so that Phalaris could hear the sound of his screams. Before Perillos could die, Phalaris opened the door and took him away. After freeing him from the bull, Phalaris is then said to have taken Perillos to the top of a hill and thrown him off, killing him. Phalaris himself is claimed to have been killed in the brazen bull when he was overthrown by Telemachus, the ancestor of Theron.
Our God does this? Our God who says He is just and wants a bride does this? It is the handiwork of a devil!!! Let's stop miss-representing God. A Christian has one job, properly represent God to the unsaved. We utterly fail if we insinuate God tortures His enemy. Surely if we support such we deserve to be thrown into this brazen bull just like its inventor? Many have a sick and shocking take on God and Christianity.
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B-A-C
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So you have become God and judge now?
Why have kids if they end up alcoholics, druggies, perverts, in prison, killed in wars, etc.... Because you hope they wont. They have the choice to choose were they end up.
How do parents handle their kids might become alcoholics, drug dealers, sexual predators, or thieves? This is a very real reality all over the world. You think parents don't worry about these things?
Some of our kids die. Some of our kids feel pain. Some of our kids will go to hell. Some of us will go to hell.
@KingJ, you need to quit grabbing articles off the internet and treating them equal to the Bible. Stick with the Bible.
B-A-C
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We utterly fail and God is a liar if the wicked are not punished.
Dovegiven
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I don't find a story of an ancient Grecian execution style apropos to deal with plain scriptures. Seeing you use text enhancements too (italics) why take those personally? It takes enhancement for some folks to be sure to find a part they apparently don't believe is there, or they disagree with Jesus and put blinders on when those words appear.
Back to topic. God is going to eternally incinerate all the doomed in the Lake of Fire, yet their worm won't die.
Isaiah 66:23-24 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.
It might be that a horrid persistent mass of eternal red maggots (worms) will feed on them in that fire, yet not consume them.
That's a pit view of the suffering in the Lake of Fire that will be left for viewing for ever, a reminder not to even think of sin, for folks coming and going from worship.
Please explain that to VVH.
By the way, where does it say God wants a bride?
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There's a relatively smaller storm in view for the folks on earth during the tribulation, followed by the glorious reign of Jesus for the thousand years. That ends with Satan being turned loose with all those released from the bottomless pit, allowed to deceive many more people who enjoyed profound peace, causing a great rebellion against the Lord. Then the Judgment of God comes on all rebels live or dead resurrected, apparently while the blood of that rebellion hasn't even dried.
The whole of that still doesn't seem as violent as when God saw to the flooding of every man and animal outside the ark. That must have been really horrible, definitely not an act of nature, but by the will of God. It brings to mind how rebellious evolutionists insist an asteroid hit earth and caused mass extinction of dinosaurs, then have to remain deceived into warping science to date events millions of years back when it's only a few thousands. Truth is slowly overtaking the lies. Now some scientists have risked their careers exposing the findings of the dinosaurs, in the same rock environments, with plastic organic blood cells and membranes in the bone marrows. Let's not be of those still swallowing error.
The whole of that still doesn't seem as violent as when God saw to the flooding of every man and animal outside the ark. That must have been really horrible, definitely not an act of nature, but by the will of God. It brings to mind how rebellious evolutionists insist an asteroid hit earth and caused mass extinction of dinosaurs, then have to remain deceived into warping science to date events millions of years back when it's only a few thousands. Truth is slowly overtaking the lies. Now some scientists have risked their careers exposing the findings of the dinosaurs, in the same rock environments, with plastic organic blood cells and membranes in the bone marrows. Let's not be of those still swallowing error.
'We' seem to be forgetting that God has made it Very clear in His Word that No one Has to end up in that lake of fire and brimstone. It is only Meant For satan, the false prophet and the beast.
He's made it Very clear to Everyone in this world that He has made a way for Everyone to be able to be in heaven -- a beautiful place to spend eternity.
God gave us the Cross of Calvary. He's given us forgiveness of our sins. All 'we' need to do his follow His instructions. And Why is this So Hard for us to do? Because satan wants all the company he can get in that lake of fire and brimstone that's in His future. And he will lie, cheat, steal, whatever he needs to do to side-track everyone away from God's Salvation.
He's made it Very clear to Everyone in this world that He has made a way for Everyone to be able to be in heaven -- a beautiful place to spend eternity.
God gave us the Cross of Calvary. He's given us forgiveness of our sins. All 'we' need to do his follow His instructions. And Why is this So Hard for us to do? Because satan wants all the company he can get in that lake of fire and brimstone that's in His future. And he will lie, cheat, steal, whatever he needs to do to side-track everyone away from God's Salvation.
