Judging

[KingJ]

1. Scripture teaches us or better yet TELLS us that there is ONLY one way to end up in hell. That is to reject Jesus Christ......This means to NOT EVER make Jesus Lord of Your life and accept what He did on the cross.

How does someone make Jesus Lord of their life? Repeat scripture until they believe what they are saying?

You are 100% correct that we must make Jesus Lord of our lives. What that eqautes to is complete surrender of our will to His. Now we would only do that if we agreed with His will. Now His will is that we repent and turn from our sinful ways. That we hate what is evil and cling to what is good. Our brains make the decision to surrender or not.

I can picture many in church today needing to constantly brainwash themselves that they are in fact in Christ. His promises and power are such a convenient addition to our lives.

1.b......Scripture clearly teaches us .with out God or Jesus we can do nothing...... Our natural minds can NOT lead us into all truth with out being renewed unto Gods word and ways. If what you claim was correct then over 2\3 of the bible or Gods written word would not have to have been written.

It takes the Spirit of God with in us to discern. If you do not build this Spirit man up with Gods word and faith then your spirit man will NOT be able to discern much.

Edit: We can do nothing to enter heaven. But you seem to forget that many people OT got themselves into Abrahams Bosom and many more into Hades.

As for the rest, yes we agree. The Holy Spirit is an addition to our already ''higher then animals / lower then angels' ability to discern.

For starters our natural man or brain can not in any way shape or form discern the things of God. You say the Holy Spirits insight is in an adidition to our already active ability to discern. Now that is just not true.....The Holy Spirit is not simply an addition to our anything. The Holy spirit is to be in control - lead man - our natural brain or thinking is to fall under SUBMISSION of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit being in control / us surrendering to Jesus and Him helping our discernment are two separate issues.

Are you proposing that an unsaved man does not know the severity and pain a family will feel if they murdered the father? Or pain their wife will feel if they commit adultery?

You need to meditate a lot more on James 1:27 and Rom 12:9. People who have not got the Holy Spirits discernment get themselves into an eternity of hell.....because they can't discern...?

You and I are only Christians because we chose to hate what is evil...which lead to us repenting of our sins....which lead to God judging our hearts and minds Jer 17:10...which lead to us becoming new creations 2 Cor 5:17 / Jesus coming in Rev 3:20.

We get to the airport using our God given brains. God gives us salvation / plane to take us from the airport to heaven.

Salvation is a free gift God gives those who actually love Him. Loving Him is best explained by Rom 12:9 and we all know ''if you love me you will obey my commandments''.

Now you are just playing here..........all three have the same answer.........By NOT making Jesus Lord of your life which means by NOT EVER becoming born again..........

How do you become born again?

As long as a person continues to explain away Gods word by human understanding - well sir they will NOT grow spiritually or gain understanding of the spiritual things of God.

Matthew 7:20 .... Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Do you think Jesus was talking to people who had the Holy Spirit's discernment when He said Matt 7:20?

 

[Dovegiven]

Please do not take this the wrong way for I mean no disrespect what so ever - But what are you talking about?
You can take the most wicked woman raping man killing person and if they repent when they are 119 years old then we will see them in heaven for Gods Grace is for every one.

Repenting means you change direction - you change the way you were thinking unto the way God thinks.
Forgiving is simply forgiving and we are all commanded to do so.

Blessings
Jim

Maybe that could happen, but in reality such life-long criminals typically end up with a reprobate mind, incapable of repenting, even when their sinner bodies get too old to
keep up deliberate sinning. Paul, the self-declared murderer imprisoned and slaughtered Christians, then upon meeting Jesus repented and never went back to his old lifestyle.
Nobody, including Paul, could know when that point of no return arrives.

I linked repentance and forgiveness because I agree with a huge majority of ministers that one of the most damaging problems we see is refusal to forgive someone that has
wronged you, that in itself eating away at the soul like a cancer. Last night I ministered to a man that has been driven into poverty from depression over being cheated out of a $5,000
inheritance through his mother, the whole estate taken over by one sister-in-law who got everything in her name before the mother died. He has gone from doing well to homelessness.
The refusal to forgive is a prime example of refusal to repent. Unforgiveness is probably the single most common sin a Christian can hold back, not willing to repent of the many
associated sins that come along with that.

That man severely judged the woman, cursing her to her face and by phone, a woman who offered to have a shelter bus come take him. Both claim to be Christian. Abused or not,
this devastated man has cut himself off from all his family after judging them all as crooks.

About grace. I liken it to a waterfall in Oregon near my work camp, from where I deployed to fight forest fires long ago. We had no showers or tubs to wash the smut off us, so
found that even in cold weather getting under that flow did a great job grinding the black off. There was no restricton as to who many use the waterfall, shared by Umatilla indian sheep herders.

The only people suffering loss were those refusing to get under the flow made available to all who entered.

Grace is accessed by use of faith, that combination alone leading to salvation. Not one person will benefit from God's grace without faith, that evidenced by fruit of the Spirit in the faithful.

God's offer of the gospel of Christ plan is the expression of his grace. Men must accept it without reservation, or perish faithless.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Maybe that could happen, but in reality such life-long criminals typically end up with a reprobate mind, incapable of repenting, even when their sinner bodies get too old to
keep up deliberate sinning. Paul, the self-declared murderer imprisoned and slaughtered Christians, then upon meeting Jesus repented and never went back to his old lifestyle.
Nobody, including Paul, could know when that point of no return arrives.

I linked repentance and forgiveness because I agree with a huge majority of ministers that one of the most damaging problems we see is refusal to forgive someone that has
wronged you, that in itself eating away at the soul like a cancer. Last night I ministered to a man that has been driven into poverty from depression over being cheated out of a $5,000
inheritance through his mother, the whole estate taken over by one sister-in-law who got everything in her name before the mother died. He has gone from doing well to homelessness.
The refusal to forgive is a prime example of refusal to repent. Unforgiveness is probably the single most common sin a Christian can hold back, not willing to repent of the many
associated sins that come along with that.

That man severely judged the woman, cursing her to her face and by phone, a woman who offered to have a shelter bus come take him. Both claim to be Christian. Abused or not,
this devastated man has cut himself off from all his family after judging them all as crooks.

About grace. I liken it to a waterfall in Oregon near my work camp, from where I deployed to fight forest fires long ago. We had no showers or tubs to wash the smut off us, so
found that even in cold weather getting under that flow did a great job grinding the black off. There was no restricton as to who many use the waterfall, shared by Umatilla indian sheep herders.

The only people suffering loss were those refusing to get under the flow made available to all who entered.

Grace is accessed by use of faith, that combination alone leading to salvation. Not one person will benefit from God's grace without faith, that evidenced by fruit of the Spirit in the faithful.

God's offer of the gospel of Christ plan is the expression of his grace. Men must accept it without reservation, or perish faithless.

Grace - Gods overwhelmijng desire to treat us as if sin nver happened. We can run to Gods grasce at any time. When we miss it we have Grace and so forth.

This reprobate mind you speak of - Far to many Christians think God goes around giving out repo minds to so many people. They also begin to decide who has one and who has not. That is a dangerous thing to do.

See you speak of Faith and Grace - put it forth - stop believing the for the most part thoser long time sinners get reprobate minds and dont repent. NOT TRUE. WHAT I SPOKE OF HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Forgive the CaPS. This Key board is going on and off and sticking but it is what I havfe to use riGhT Now.

I will try later to reply better. Have a great night.Jim

 

[Lanolin]

Actually there IS one unforgivable sin and that is the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, which I believe happened with the Israelites (or the Pharisees) not all of them but some of them.

Also, God gives grace to the humble, but resists the proud. So although God has heaps of grace given to us through Jesus, even Jesus does not go and forgive those who are wicked and evil and know what they are doing and are unrepentant. Like the Pharisees and Saducees were.
Dying on the cross, he even asked his Father to forgive them who were involved with his crucixfiction as they didn't know what they were doing. But those who did know what they were doing, obviously God will judge them on judgement day.

 

[Lanolin]

I think its very hard to know if someone is reprobate, that is difficult cos we all hold out hope that sinners repent before its too late. I think don't give up praying for them.

But, Jesus did know that Judas would betray him, he could see the signs. Judas stole money and also, refused to have his feet washed, he wasn't clean..I doubt he was baptized.

Jesus prayed for Peter even when Peter was saying outrageous things and acting on impulse..Satan was sifting him as wheat.
But Jesus did not pray for Judas as he knew what he was about. It is very sad if you do have a Judas type person in your midst.

 

[Lanolin]

Another thing want to add that if you read the later letters to the church in the New Testament, lots of warnings were given about false brethren, false prophets and teachers within the church. They had infiltrated and were devastating the flock..fleecing them in fact.

So we all need discernment in that area. I myself have experienced this when I trusted the wrong people, even when they claimed they were christians.

 

[Dovegiven]

Grace - Gods overwhelmijng desire to treat us as if sin nver happened. We can run to Gods grasce at any time. When we miss it we have Grace and so forth.

This reprobate mind you speak of - Far to many Christians think God goes around giving out repo minds to so many people. They also begin to decide who has one and who has not. That is a dangerous thing to do.

See you speak of Faith and Grace - put it forth - stop believing the for the most part thoser long time sinners get reprobate minds and dont repent. NOT TRUE. WHAT I SPOKE OF HAPPENS ALL THE TIME. Forgive the CaPS. This Key board is going on and off and sticking but it is what I havfe to use riGhT Now.

I will try later to reply better. Have a great night.Jim

Having ministered since the mid 1980's to sinners going through Teen Challenge, numerous other ministries to men, and helping men's homeless shelters, I've dealt with a few thousand men and often their wives when my wife helped them, bringing whole families into counseling, No sin could surprise me. We've witnessed it all, listened to thousands of hours of confessions. I have an idea about grace and mercy, and of course judgment of men, holy righteousness, sinner's indignation, apostasy, reprobate mindsets, the whole of it all. A reprobate mindset is one that is left without ability to recognize any difference between good and evil. We're seeing that in the terrorist killings. A person can in fact so damage their conscience that it effectively dies, leaving that person cut off from God even in their teens and 20's. God taught Israel what being cut off from the commonwealth was about, which wasn't something that could only happened to rebellious Jews.

For now I'll skip over examples of that. None of that edifies anyone, but does appeal to sinners like the aroma of booze appeals to an alcoholic. The really bad boys are allowed to tell their story, with least one benefit of shock factor for young men to hear and be willing to seek to repent before they sink "that" low..

I've watched many court judges exercise judgment by the letter of the law. I've also wondered at the application of mercy, such as sentencing to probation instead of 5 years of prison, or dropping fees and fines. There have been a few judges who are given to going beyond all those kindnesses, applying grace. An example is a judge contacting a ministry or agency for perhaps drug abuse intervention, before a man's court date. A man I appeared for to give a character reference heard the judge say he reviewed the case, so the court would arrange to sponsor treatment, the only requirement being to meet the agency "graduation" standard. That can be very costly to a family, impossible for a felon to pay for. The other choice is usually jail time, fines, fees, and damage to one's record. Nobody wants to see a young life ruined if there is any hope of redemption. God holds hope for that, but his justice must prevail once there is no longer reason for hope. God knows when, and so do the people involved in those lives. So do the subjects know.

God's grace is highly remarkable considering how often people throughout history have rejected God's offers of help, heaping upon themselves great physical, mental, and spiritual damage. God views sin no differently today as he did in the beginning. He is the holy God, allowing only righteousness around him. Grace is what God is offering to sinners. Faith is the sinner's part, to repent by faith believing there is ample reason to repent, and believe the gospel. Jesus' first sermon was here:
Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Grace doesn't cancel out the requirement of repentance.
Luke 13:1-5 (KJV)
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I have noticed, while alive with men on earth, that Jesus is not on record as teaching anyone about grace. He commanded to repent and believe. By the Holy Spirit men were taught later what was behind that commandment, revealing it was grace. But grace is not alone, requiring obedience to believe the gospel, repent, and turn to righteous living. When someone rejects that too many times, the mind becomes disqualified, unable to respond to further invitations to receive anything from God.

 

[Wired 4 Fishen]

Having ministered since the mid 1980's to sinners going through Teen Challenge, numerous other ministries to men, and helping men's homeless shelters, I've dealt with a few thousand men and often their wives when my wife helped them, bringing whole families into counseling, No sin could surprise me. We've witnessed it all, listened to thousands of hours of confessions. I have an idea about grace and mercy, and of course judgment of men, holy righteousness, sinner's indignation, apostasy, reprobate mindsets, the whole of it all. A reprobate mindset is one that is left without ability to recognize any difference between good and evil. We're seeing that in the terrorist killings. A person can in fact so damage their conscience that it effectively dies, leaving that person cut off from God even in their teens and 20's. God taught Israel what being cut off from the commonwealth was about, which wasn't something that could only happened to rebellious Jews.

For now I'll skip over examples of that. None of that edifies anyone, but does appeal to sinners like the aroma of booze appeals to an alcoholic. The really bad boys are allowed to tell their story, with least one benefit of shock factor for young men to hear and be willing to seek to repent before they sink "that" low..

I've watched many court judges exercise judgment by the letter of the law. I've also wondered at the application of mercy, such as sentencing to probation instead of 5 years of prison, or dropping fees and fines. There have been a few judges who are given to going beyond all those kindnesses, applying grace. An example is a judge contacting a ministry or agency for perhaps drug abuse intervention, before a man's court date. A man I appeared for to give a character reference heard the judge say he reviewed the case, so the court would arrange to sponsor treatment, the only requirement being to meet the agency "graduation" standard. That can be very costly to a family, impossible for a felon to pay for. The other choice is usually jail time, fines, fees, and damage to one's record. Nobody wants to see a young life ruined if there is any hope of redemption. God holds hope for that, but his justice must prevail once there is no longer reason for hope. God knows when, and so do the people involved in those lives. So do the subjects know.

God's grace is highly remarkable considering how often people throughout history have rejected God's offers of help, heaping upon themselves great physical, mental, and spiritual damage. God views sin no differently today as he did in the beginning. He is the holy God, allowing only righteousness around him. Grace is what God is offering to sinners. Faith is the sinner's part, to repent by faith believing there is ample reason to repent, and believe the gospel. Jesus' first sermon was here:
Mark 1:14-15 (KJV)
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Grace doesn't cancel out the requirement of repentance.
Luke 13:1-5 (KJV)
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I have noticed, while alive with men on earth, that Jesus is not on record as teaching anyone about grace. He commanded to repent and believe. By the Holy Spirit men were taught later what was behind that commandment, revealing it was grace. But grace is not alone, requiring obedience to believe the gospel, repent, and turn to righteous living. When someone rejects that too many times, the mind becomes disqualified, unable to respond to further invitations to receive anything from God.

I do not agree with this. (( When someone rejects that too many times, the mind becomes disqualified, unable to respond to further invitations to receive anything from God. ))

 

[Ophel]

I do not agree with this. (( When someone rejects that too many times, the mind becomes disqualified, unable to respond to further invitations to receive anything from God. ))

I agree with you!

It has been said (I guess it is a statistic) that the average convert to Jesus Christ has heard the gospel message at least seven times. We cannot know whether we are the one who is called to reap the harvest of one soul God has had us cross paths with. We must always live before people, and speak with words of truth and of the living hope we have in Jesus. No one is a lost cause.


.

 

[Dovegiven]

I do not agree with this. (( When someone rejects that too many times, the mind becomes disqualified, unable to respond to further invitations to receive anything from God. ))

I do understand how modern thinking leads to such disagreement, but it is written Titus 1:15-16 (KJV)
15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

I don't believe in cherry-picking scriptures, so take that to be an eternal description of what happens to people who do ignore truth.

It doesn't stop there concerning acquisition of a reprobate mind, especially among apostates.
2 Timothy 3:1-9 (KJV)
1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.

A third witness of scripture:
Romans 1:16-18 (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

(read 19-27 for details of the failures of the Jews who witness the visible proofs of God- Jesus walking among them)

Followed by the sentence of God on men while yet alive in the flesh....
Romans 1:28-32 (KJV)
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

All of those sins and much more remain very applicable today for the majority of this planet's population. All are found in many churches, too,

Not being able to recognize which people around us are already turned over to a reprobate mind, by God, is a dangerous situation for any Christian. The scriptures
warn us to discern them, then reject them.
Romans 16:17-18 (KJV)
17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I admit that when preaching to a congregation we probably don't know which if any there are reprobate or close to it, so of course we preach the truth anyway.
We rejoice when someone in a stage of mind approaching the point of no return come to their senses and repents. It's a shocking thing to witness that final
step, when their mind is on fire of hell already. It isn't necessary to "judge" them, as the word of their mouth and their deeds will betray them. The Holy Spirit will let you know when
to move your ministry to someone else that is seeking the Lord.

Matthew 10:10-15 (KJV)
10 Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
11 And into whatsoever city or town ye shall enter, enquire who in it is worthy; and there abide till ye go thence.
12 And when ye come into an house, salute it.
13 And if the house be worthy, let your peace come upon it: but if it be not worthy, let your peace return to you.
14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

The Bible provides plenty of marching orders for true gospel ministers, especially not to waste time where they the gospel is rejected. That's a reason for not carrying a sign opposing a GLBT
rally of reprobate minded people, and now many new groups defying God's holiness.

 

[Ophel]

Yes, God does give people over to their depravity, and yes, those who claim Christ yet continue to sin consistently, especially in the area of sexual sin, we must cut off, but we mustn't be too quick to judge. Where there is life, there is hope. Prayer is a powerful weapon against the enemy, and we have been given the authority of Christ against the enemy, also----so we must wield it.


.


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[Lanolin]

one of my church lady friends worked in the Ministry of justice as a court helper.
Of course she's not in the position of judge - she is not the judge!
BUT she was the one supporting the judges in their decisions.

What she does is pray, for the judges, the convicts, and their victims families.
She told me there are programs and helps for young offenders to realise the consequences of their sins/transgressions. Some of this involves taking them to see the victims families or the hospitals to see the damage they and other people cause through reckless behaviour.

Often this can change a heart and make them turn around and resolve not to offend anymore.

 

[Lanolin]

yes sometimes criminals or reprobates actually boast of their sin and how bad they were, its like a source of pride for them.

And there are many false converts, some profess christianity in prison but their life doesn't change. They just become respectable, but not changed. eg. white collar criminals, those that commit fraud. Nobody can really see as they sin in secret. On the outside they may look christian but inside they are rotten. Its like Judas.

Jesus warned that people like Judas are anti-christ.

 

[Lanolin]

Actually the Word of God is QUICK and powerful, so I would disagree that we can't be too quick to judge. God doesn't dither when He's judging something against His Word.

It may take longer for us as many of us are not always grounded in His word. But once we know it, I think we can be quick to judge as the longer we take over judging the more the enemy may have a chance to sway our minds. We can't be doubleminded about right and wrong.

 

[Lanolin]

I just saw this scripture on my calendar for the month, 'judge not or you will be judged, nor condemn not or you will be condemned.'

Of course we all know this but I'm reminded of it just now and of course this thread, and I really had a think about what this meant and why christians quote this so much, and non christians especially like the 'judge not' bit.

When we judge, we need to make sure we ourselves are not guilty of doing the VERY SAME thing we are judging. Otherwise we are hypocrites, and the person being judged can judge us back on the the SAME THING. And if we are guilty, we then have NO RIGHT to judge them for being guilty of the same.

But if we are righteous, which are what judges are meant to be - then we are in a position to judge. Does that make sense?

We can't judge everybody on everything, only God has that privelige as he is HOLY and he knows everything and everyone's hearts. But we can judge on the matters he has given us to judge. Jesus has grace and compassion because he was tempted JUST LIKE US. That is why he doesn't condemn anyone. For he was condemned himself on the cross.

The thing was he was completely innocent, it was OUR SIN that put him there. Lets say Jesus had a brother, a true brother who was also the son of God, or a sister who was the daughter of God and they were at the cruxificiton as the judge - would they condemn Jesus? NO WAY.
But Pilate, or was it Caphias who was the judge at the time, judged Jesus guilty. He was crucified.

We don't want to be in the position of judging wrongly and condemning someone to die who is innocent.
BUT...we have jails for a reason. Mostly to keep away criminals from endangering themselves and the lives of innocent people. Otherwise, if we never judged anyone, there would be no such things as prisons and everyone would just get off scot free all the time. That is why we have laws. For those that don't have the truth written in their hearts, we need laws to live by, and when they are transgressed, appropriate action taken. God doesn't think well of lawless people.

 

[Ophel]

Actually the Word of God is QUICK and powerful, so I would disagree that we can't be too quick to judge. God doesn't dither when He's judging something against His Word.

It may take longer for us as many of us are not always grounded in His word. But once we know it, I think we can be quick to judge as the longer we take over judging the more the enemy may have a chance to sway our minds. We can't be doubleminded about right and wrong.

@Lanolin

God does bide His time, because of His great mercy and patience.

The word "quick" in the verse you refer to is "zao", and it means "alive", and has nothing to do with speed.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.



.

 

[Dovegiven]

Yes, God does give people over to their depravity, and yes, those who claim Christ yet continue to sin consistently, especially in the area of sexual sin, we must cut off, but we mustn't be too quick to judge. Where there is life, there is hope. Prayer is a powerful weapon against the enemy, and we have been given the authority of Christ against the enemy, also----so we must wield it.

Simply pointing out your use of the word "quick", in your post applying to being too soon to judge on the basis of too little evidence. I agree, we need to be patient, wait for the actual fruit to appear, or use other good means to judge a tree by its fruit that might not appear but once every several years, lest we cut down the neighbor's prize Jap Maple tree thinking it to be a pesky Mimosa tree (their fruits are surprisingly similar), thinking a favor is rendered to the neighbor. There's a really good lesson from those 2 trees.

 

[Dovegiven]

Actually the Word of God is QUICK and powerful, so I would disagree that we can't be too quick to judge. God doesn't dither when He's judging something against His Word.

It may take longer for us as many of us are not always grounded in His word. But once we know it, I think we can be quick to judge as the longer we take over judging the more the enemy may have a chance to sway our minds. We can't be doubleminded about right and wrong.

I agree, we who hold the truth in righteousness ought to be ALIVE and well able to judge fruit produced by people around us, as soon as it appears. Too often I hear someone excuse a sinning friend with "Oh, that's just our gay Tommy in one of his moments. All his friends love him so much anyway"...........

 

[Dovegiven]

@Lanolin

God does bide His time, because of His great mercy and patience.

The word "quick" in the verse you refer to is "zao", and it means "alive", and has nothing to do with speed.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.
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There are many Bible instances of God acting very swiftly, sometimes almost instantly as in the case of Nebuchadnezzar when God turned his mind over to that of a beast. He has seen to the killing of thousands over worshipping a golden calf. So compared to eternity, such responses from God happen in less than a millisecond "spark" in time. It's hazardous to think God often takes his time meting out this justice. Look at Belshazzar in Daniel 5. The king insulted God, and that night the whole Babylonian Empire fell to the Medes and Persians who were already at work undermining the great city. Wheat befell Judas his night of betrayal was not a long term judgment.

 

[Ophel]

There are many Bible instances of God acting very swiftly, sometimes almost instantly as in the case of Nebuchadnezzar when God turned his mind over to that of a beast. He has seen to the killing of thousands over worshipping a golden calf. So compared to eternity, such responses from God happen in less than a millisecond "spark" in time. It's hazardous to think God often takes his time meting out this justice. Look at Belshazzar in Daniel 5. The king insulted God, and that night the whole Babylonian Empire fell to the Medes and Persians who were already at work undermining the great city. Wheat befell Judas his night of betrayal was not a long term judgment.

In the OT, God was more quick to hand down judgments. In this age of Grace, God is more quick with His mercy, for the sake of His Son, who is busy building His Church. He chooses to defer His judgment for Judgment Day, for which we all need to be grateful.

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