Lazarus and the Rich man...

[Sue D.]

The twelve apostles listed in Matthew 10:2.

Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee and John his brother ; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus , and lebbarus , whose surname was Thaddeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him."

Jesus had called them and sent them out.

 

[Sue D.]

The twelve apostles listed in Matthew 10:2.

Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee and John his brother ; Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus , and lebbarus , whose surname was Thaddeus; Simon the Cananite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him."

Jesus had called them and sent them out.

Matthew 10:2

Now the names of the twelve apostles are these. First Simon who is called Peter and Andrew his brother,; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, Philip and Bartholomew, Thomas and Matthew the tax collector, James the son of Alphaeus,and lebbaeus, who's surname was Thaddeus: Simon the Cananite and Judas Iscariot who also betrayed Him.'

 

[Garee]

Just a polite question, Sue.

How many Apostles are there in the New Testament?
And does your church teach that Jesus is an Apostle?

Rhema

(I asked @Garee to name them, so you can too if you wish.)

Thanks. .
Christ Himself the chief apostle Hebrews 3: 1, Barnabas Acts 11: 22–24, James the Lord's brother Galatians 1: 19, Simon Peter Matthew 10: 2, Andrew Matthew 10: 2, James the son of Zebedee Matthew 10: 2, John. Matthew 10: 2 Philip. Matthew 10: 3, Bartholomew or (Nathanael) Matthew 10:3, James. son of Alphaeus. Matthew 10: 3, Thomas. Matthew. 10: 3, Matthew. ( Levi ) Matthew 10: 3 Judas Iscariot. Matthew 10: 3 Matthias. Acts 1: 26, Paul. formerly Saul. 2 Cor. 1: 1. Gal. 1: 1 Simon the Zealot. Luke 6: , Silvanus and Timothy. 1 These. 1: 1 Andrinicus & Junius. Romans 16: 7 And more .

The question I would ask is how many does it take before we can define the meaning of the word apostle which is "sent one" not "venerable one" (the Catholic understanding)

We are informed they can plant the incorruptible born again seed of the gospel and another apostle water it with the water of the gospel .But unless Christ forms his Spirit in them their work is in vain ,

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase. Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.

And why set aside 12 a remnant .Not to include the chief apostle the Son of man, Jesus or Judas the false apostle

 

[GodB4Us]

Friends this story is not a parable. Jesus did not use names of real people in parables. We know Lazarus was a real man. This story is true.

I agree.

Human souls go to the 3rd heaven where heaven and hell are located. They are separated by a huge chasm type river barrier but in one area the people can see each other.

Abraham's bosom was also known as Paradise as Jesus said to the thief that He would meet him there that day.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Abraham's bosom was located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell. 1 Samuel 28:3-20 has King Saul using a medium to raise up the spirit of the prophet Samuel. Scriptures does not lie for how it testified to Samuel giving a prophesy from the Lord to rebuke Saul regarding his death and the death of his two sons which did come to pass.

I believe Jesus descended into Paradise aka Abrahm's bosom to preach unto those O.T. saints in "prison" as this was necessary for only Christ can bring us to God.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;

Ephesians 4:7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. 8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

So after His ascension, He led the captivity captive, meaning He took Paradies and all the inhabitants to the third Heaven when He had ascended to the Father. Paradise is now located in Heaven since His ascension.

We can know this by how Paul gave an indirect testimony about the apostle John and the Book of Revelation.

2 Corinthians 12:1 It is not expedient for me doubtless to glory. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord. 2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven. 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

The communication is telepathic. This barrier is called 'Styx'. We learn this in the Book of Enoch,

The Book of Enoch is a fake, copying some actual scripture into it to make it legit. The reasons why the lost books were not accepted as scripture is because there are sayings in Enoch that goes against the accepted scripture and since scripture cannot go against scripture, the Book of Enoch is a fraud, a piece of literary fiction. Proof is in Enoch chapter 18 where in the third heaven, some things listed in creations were being punished for not coming forth when God told them to.

Isaiah 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

So either the Book of Enoch is a lie or Isaiah is. I'd go with Isaiah because angels do not marry nor given in marriage and certainly God would not join fallen angels in marriage, let alone call fallen angels "the sons of God".

The sons of God are Israel's family tree of the godly lineage of Seth that had replaced the godly Abel.

Luke 3: 38 Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was the son of God.

The term sons of God is referring to builders of the family name and being born of bloodline of the family of Israel & strangers joining that family by Judaism, are now replaced by the only way to be sons of God now, by believing in Jesus Christ as born again of the Spirit by God.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

who of which was Noah's grandfather, and Enoch was 7th from Adam.....

....This was a true story and the Rich man is still burning today...

Of this I can agree with also. Thank you for sharing.

 

[GodB4Us]

I wonder how you would understand this scripture in light of you saying


John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

See post #424 Response to OP

 

[Curtis]

There are four different "TYPES" of Apostles written about in scripture.
(1) Jesus Christ was an Apostle. Jesus was a one-of-a-kind Apostle as God gave him the Spirit without "MEASURE".

Heb 3:1 Therefore, holy brothers, you who share in a heavenly calling, CONSIDER JESUS, THE APOSTLE AND HIGH PRIEST OF OUR CONFESSION,

Apostle means "ONE WHO IS SENT, A MESSENGER". Jesus was sent, and a messenger of God to proclaim the Gospel to men. Jesus operated in all five "MINISTRY" gifts as an Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, and teacher.

(2) The second type of apostle is the "APOSTLES OF THE LAMB". The twelve Apostles are in a class of their own. No one else can ever be an Apostle of the Lamb.

Rev 21:14 And the wall of THE CITY HAD TWELVE FOUNDATIONS, and on them were THE TWELVE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB.

These twelve Apostles were sent for to be eyewitnesses of Jesus's life, earthly ministry, and resurrection. Their main purpose was to be ministers of the Gospel. They were the first to preach and teach the Word of God.
The Apostle Paul would not qualify to be one of these Apostles as he did not follow Jesus from the start to the end of his earthly ministry. There have been around twenty people in the Bible that have been called "APOSTLES", or "SENT ONES", but only the original twelve are considered APOSTLES OF THE LAMB. There are only twelve foundations that support the heavenly city, not 13 or 14....ect

(3) The third type of Apostle would be the Apostle Paul, who helped lay the "DOCTRINAL" “FOUNDATION” of the New Testament. Paul wrote about half of the New Testament, and the revelations he taught did not come from man.

Eph 3:1 For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles,
Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 HOW THAT BY REVELATION HE MADE KNOWN UNTO ME THE MYSTERY; (AS I WROTE AFORE IN FEW WORDS,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which IN OTHER AGES WAS NOT MADE KNOWN UNTO THE SONS OF MEN, AS IT IS NOW REVEALED UNTO HIS HOLY APOSTLES AND PROPHETS BY THE SPIRIT;

The Apostle Paul preached the "REVELATION" of the Gospel to the early Church saints. We do not need to lay any other foundation which has already been laid for us, we are only to build upon that foundation!!

Eph 2:19 Now, therefore, ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are BUILT UPON THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS, JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF BEING THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE;

The Apostle Paul tell us this.....

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise master builder, I HAVE LAID THE FOUNDATION AND ANOTHER BUILDETH THEREON. BUT LET EVERY MAN TAKE HEED HOW HE BUILDETH THEREUPON.

There are no NEW revelations being given to the Church as a "FOUNDATION". Paul warned the Church that we are to take heed to how we build upon that which has already been laid. Even though there are no new revelations as foundations for the Church, there are new revelations ABOUT this foundation which is already laid, taught, and revealed to us by the Holy Spirit.

(4) The fourth type of Apostle is what we have today in the Church. They are sent ones, and their apostleship is in a measure unlike other foundational Apostles like the original twelve and the apostle Paul who laid the very foundation of the Gospel. Epaphroditus was called a "MESSENGER" by Paul. The word, "MESSENGER" means "APOSTLE". Epaphroditus was not an Apostle in the same sense as Paul or the other twelve apostles were. He was "SENT" out as a delegate, or representative, or as the commissioned representative of a congregation.

Today's Apostles are commissioned by the Holy Spirit to bring a specific message or ministry along a certain scriptural line to the Body of Christ. These modern-day “APOSTLES” would be known as “MISSIONARIES”. They simply build upon the foundation that has already been laid.

One of the most notable signs of a Apostle is in their anointing to teach, and preach the Word of God, and to start or plant new Churches.

 

[Rhema]

The twelve apostles listed in Matthew 10:2.

Okay, that's 12 as listed in Matthew, but don't you believe that Paul is also an apostle? (That makes 13.)

And what of Matthias? Was he a valid apostle or not? (That would make 14.)

And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.​

(Acts 1:24-26 KJV)​

And what of Barnabas? He too was directly called an apostle - (We're up to 15 now.)

Which when the apostles Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,​

(Acts 14:14 KJV)​

Really Sue, I'd expect a bit more insight and diligence given your self-claims, especially the one that you Believe what the Bible says.

Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;​

(Hebrews 3:1 KJV)​

Now since Jesus is directly called an apostle, then that makes 16. If you're not even going to try, why bother? As you asked me once, why are you here?

Rhema

 

[Sue D.]

Wow rhema -- I won't bother to respond to you anymore.

But , just for the record
Romans begins with "Paul , a bond servant of Jesus Christ called to be an apostle, separated to the gospel of God......"

I would continue but you'd only shoot down anything more I'd share.
So I won't bother.

 

[Rhema]

Thanks. .
James the Lord's brother Galatians 1: 19,

Not conclusive.

Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.​

(Galatians 1:18-19 KJV)​

The English word "save" seems to imply an exception to the statement of Paul seeing "none" of the apostles. But the Greek conditional ει μη ("if not") attaches to the action of "seeing" and not the attribute of apostleship. Paul wrote that he saw no one else, then remembered that he saw James. One cannot conclude from this statement that this "James" was an apostle.

Matthew 10: 2, ... Matthew 10:3

Wait... What? You only listed ten from Matthew...

GAREE !!! WHAT DID YOU DO TO Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; and Simon the Canaanite, Mat 10:4 ...

C'mon people, can't anyone be accurate ??

Simon the Zealot. Luke 6:

Sorry... Same person as Simon the Canaanite. So okay, technically you only forgot Lebbaeus.

But what of Judas the brother of James ??

I guess those who claim "Inerrancy" would think this Judas an alternate name for Lebbaeus, but DUDE... you still forgot him.

Silvanus and Timothy. 1 These. 1: 1

And here's where I think you have a real problem, buddy... you make stuff up.

Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

(1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJV)​

Where in the above verse is Silvanus or Timothy ever described as an Apostle?

Since you OFTEN if not always "go beyond what is written," you do tend to post a lot of wild stuff that's just not true.

Andrinicus & Junius. Romans 16: 7

Interesting. Garee... hat's off to you. I hadn't expected you to note this.

Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.​

(Romans 16:7 KJV)​

BUT...

The text reads that these two people are επισημοι (serving to distinguish) or "respected by" the apostles - with the sense of giving distinguished service TO the apostles, since the word "apostles" is in the dative case.

And more.

Okay, I get it. You got lazy.

When you deign to tell me who, I'll reply further.

The question I would ask is how many does it take before we can define the meaning of the word apostle which is "sent one" not "venerable one" (the Catholic understanding)

WRONG QUESTION.

The question is when will you understand that the word "Apostle" just means "Apostle" and nothing more. Don't go changing the definitions of words, Garee. Don't change G652 (ἀπόστολος) into something else.

The next question is why doesn't the LXX use the word G652 (ἀπόστολος - apostle) at all ??

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

I would continue but you'd only shoot down anything more I'd share.
So I won't bother.

You didn't bother to include Paul to begin with, so don't blame me for your mistakes.

 

[Garee]

Not conclusive.

Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother.​

(Galatians 1:18-19 KJV)​

The English word "save" seems to imply an exception to the statement of Paul seeing "none" of the apostles. But the Greek conditional ει μη ("if not") attaches to the action of "seeing" and not the attribute of apostleship. Paul wrote that he saw no one else, then remembered that he saw James. One cannot conclude from this statement that this "James" was an apostle.


Wait... What? You only listed ten from Matthew...

GAREE !!! WHAT DID YOU DO TO Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; and Simon the Canaanite, Mat 10:4 ...

C'mon people, can't anyone be accurate ??


Sorry... Same person as Simon the Canaanite. So okay, technically you only forgot Lebbaeus.

But what of Judas the brother of James ??

I guess those who claim "Inerrancy" would think this Judas an alternate name for Lebbaeus, but DUDE... you still forgot him.


And here's where I think you have a real problem, buddy... you make stuff up.

Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.​

(1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJV)​

Where in the above verse is Silvanus or Timothy ever described as an Apostle?

Since you OFTEN if not always "go beyond what is written," you do tend to post a lot of wild stuff that's just not true.


Interesting. Garee... hat's off to you. I hadn't expected you to note this.

Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.​

(Romans 16:7 KJV)​

BUT...

The text reads that these two people are επισημοι (serving to distinguish) or "respected by" the apostles - with the sense of giving distinguished service TO the apostles, since the word "apostles" is in the dative case.


Okay, I get it. You got lazy.

When you deign to tell me who, I'll reply further.


WRONG QUESTION.

The question is when will you understand that the word "Apostle" just means "Apostle" and nothing more. Don't go changing the definitions of words, Garee. Don't change G652 (ἀπόστολος) into something else.

The next question is why doesn't the LXX use the word G652 (ἀπόστολος - apostle) at all ??

Rhema

So how many of the 25 I listed where not sent by God which defines the word Apostle.? Was Abel the first recorded martyr sent by God as a prophet? Was Deborah sent by God as a prophet?

Which prophets were not sent by God

And again whether the bible list 1 sent one of 1000 what would that do with defining the word . Why did he set aside twelve ?

 

[Garee]

The question is when will you understand that the word "Apostle" just means "Apostle" and nothing more. Don't go changing the definitions of words, Garee. Don't change G652 (ἀπόστολος) into something else.

Well of course "sent one" means "sent one" .What do you think it means. . .venerable one?

The Hebrew sent one or messenger Shaliah same as apostle .

 

[Rhema]

So how many of the 25 I listed ...

You listed 20, not 25.

Christ Himself the chief apostle Hebrews 3: 1, Barnabas Acts 11: 22–24, James the Lord's brother Galatians 1: 19, Simon Peter Matthew 10: 2, Andrew Matthew 10: 2, James the son of Zebedee Matthew 10: 2, John. Matthew 10: 2 Philip. Matthew 10: 3, Bartholomew or (Nathanael) Matthew 10:3, James. son of Alphaeus. Matthew 10: 3, Thomas. Matthew. 10: 3, Matthew. ( Levi ) Matthew 10: 3 Judas Iscariot. Matthew 10: 3 Matthias. Acts 1: 26, Paul. formerly Saul. 2 Cor. 1: 1. Gal. 1: 1 Simon the Zealot. Luke 6: , Silvanus and Timothy. 1 These. 1: 1 Andrinicus & Junius. Romans 16: 7 And more .

I thought about counting them out for you, but ... I'll let you do that since my doing so might seem ungracious.

Rhema

PS: Dear ones... always do the leg work and count.

 

[Rhema]

So how many of the 25 I listed where not sent by God which defines the word Apostle.?

Proof that the words Prophet and Apostle are different.

Therefore also said the wisdom of God, I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they shall slay and persecute:​

(Luke 11:49 KJV)​

Further proof that the words Prophet and Apostle are different:

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:​

(Ephesians 4:11-12 KJV)​

If they were indeed the same thing, there would be no reason to list them both, and I am not about to declare that God was either repetitive or redundant. Are you Garee? Are you going to put your thinking and ideas above that which God gave?

Rhema

PS: Dear ones... always strive to be accurate.

 

[Rhema]

The Hebrew sent one or messenger Shaliah same as apostle .

The translators of the Septuagint do not agree. If they had, they would have used the Greek word "apostle." They did not. Not once was there a person or thing sent out in the Hebrew Bible that was described to be a Messenger, whether in Greek or Hebrew.

The word Shaliah does not occur in the Bible as a noun, Garee. As a verb, it is catalogued by Strong's Number - H7971

And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth (H7971) the dove out of the ark;​

(Genesis 8:10 KJV)​

So was the dove an Apostle too, Garee? (You have GOT to stop accepting Wikipedia as an expert source.)

Rhema

PS: Dear ones... always verify the claims of others.

 

[GodB4Us]

Now since Jesus is directly called an apostle, then that makes 16. If you're not even going to try, why bother? As you asked me once, why are you here?

C'mon people, can't anyone be accurate ??

Okay, I get it. You got lazy.

1 Corinthians 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, 5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; 6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; 7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. 8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. 9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 15 But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. 16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

2 Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Matthew 25: 40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

 

[Garee]

The translators of the Septuagint do not agree. If they had, they would have used the Greek word "apostle." They did not. Not once was there a person or thing sent out in the Hebrew Bible that was described to be a Messenger, whether in Greek or Hebrew.

The word Shaliah does not occur in the Bible as a noun, Garee. As a verb, it is catalogued by Strong's Number - H7971

And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth (H7971) the dove out of the ark;​

(Genesis 8:10 KJV)​

So was the dove an Apostle too, Garee? (You have GOT to stop accepting Wikipedia as an expert source.)

Rhema

PS: Dear ones... always verify the claims of others.

The Bible is the one source .(sola scriptura)

It warns us of adding new meaning to one word it subtracts from the intent of the author Christ and can change many commandments.

Yes Doves are used and so was Balaam's Ass, or Gideon's fleece or a rainbow .ETC God who is of one mind and always does whatsoever his soul pleases is not served by human hands as a will .

Remember the apostles as messengers are considered as nothing . .One plants the born again seed the another waters it with the word But unless Christ does the work there can be no growth they are not any different then Balaam's Ass used to represent a unbelievers.

He sends them out two by two.

Geneisis19:1 And there came two angels (messengers or apostles) to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

Again why set aside 12 out of thousands? There must be some reason .

Do you have a Catholic background or do you serve a hierarchy of men like some other sects? Mormons, JW's ?

 

[Brother Paul]

I wonder how you would understand this scripture in light of you saying


John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Well there is some to unpack here. First off, this was said BEFORE the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Before this event, ALL people went to Paradise/Sheol and not to "heaven". This was a holding place with one section for the righteous souls (righteous by His righteousness by faith) and the other for those who wanted nothing to do with God, disregarded His will constantly, and preferred to be lord of their own life. So it was for the Rich man in this story.

Now after Jesus went to Paradise/Sheol (called descending into hell in the English translations) and took led captivity captive, all the righteous souls are now with Him in the Throne Room awaiting the parousia (see Revelations 7). So the self lords still go to where the Rich man was (each lord of a kingdom of one with NOTHING of God...no order to calm the fires of chaos, no light, no meeting of needs, no fellowship with others, etc. because all of these and more were of GOD whom they have ultimately rejected).

But NOW after the Christ events for us to physically die IS to be present with the Lord.

 

[Rhema]

But NOW after the Christ events for us to physically die IS to be present with the Lord.

See ... ???

This is the perfect example of where changing the verb tenses in a translation change the intended meaning.

@Brother Paul, I know you believe what I quoted above, but such a claim is not supported by the Grammar of the Greek text. It just isn't.

All I'm asking is that you recognize that your view is an interpretation, and from a linguistic perspective, I find it to be a poor interpretation.

Kindly
Rhema

 

[Garee]

Abraham's bosom was also known as Paradise as Jesus said to the thief that He would meet him there that day.

Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom. 43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Abraham's bosom was located beneath the earth but across that great gulf from hell. 1 Samuel 28:3-20 has King Saul using a medium to raise up the spirit of the prophet Samuel. Scriptures does not lie for how it testified to Samuel giving a prophesy from the Lord to rebuke Saul regarding his death and the death of his two sons which did come to pass.

Saul was a false prophet / false apostle

I would agree with the great gulf between communing with the dead for the living (necromancy) and the word of God prophecy .All things written in the law and prophets.(sola scriptura) No man can serve two good teaching masters as our one unseen Lord

Are both Abraham and Samuel considered prophets as apostles sent by God ?