Lazarus and the Rich man...

[complete]

@complete -- you commented about that episode is a doctrine of the Pharisees

Whena person dies , the body like we hav now gradually starts to decay. And it's true that a physically dead person can't hear or see anything. But the 'real' person the soul is still alive and conscious of what's going on.

So yes, we Do need to Beware. There is a very real eternity in each person's future. What are we doing Now. The rich man realized too late and wanted 'someone' to warn his brothers so they could avoid his fate.

Same goes for today. Do we heed or ignore or put off a decision until 'tomorrow'.

Hello @Sue D.

I don't understand what you are referring to in your first sentence, I'm sorry.

In regard to what you say concerning the dead body being alive and conscious I must ask you to confirm that with Scripture if you would please.

Yes that warning of our Lord concerning the need to 'Beware' of the doctrine of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, is as much for us now, in this day and age, as it was in Biblical times when it comes to the subject highlighted by 'The Rich Man and Lazarus'. Traditional teaching within the church concerning the state of the dead has been accepted without the confirmation of Scripture, and has lead to much of the evils concerning hell as a place of eternal conscious punishment, also of spiritism and associated beliefs.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Sue D.]

I've always gone to churches that teach God's Word as being factual. Parables are said to be parables. The episode of the rich man and Lazarus did happen / specific name of Lazarus was used. God used this way to let us know that a person is conscious of their surroundings upon their death.

Look at Luke 16:19- end of that chapter for scriptural confirmation.

Then look at Luke 18 -+ passages are said to be parables. Vs 1 and 9.

And it probably Is disturbing to learn that there will be a real location of suffering forever ,however we are also told how to stay Out of hell and be able to Be in heaven for eternity. The choice is up to the individual.

 

[Curtis]

Jas 2:26 For just as a human body without the spirit is a dead corpse, so faith without the expression of good works is dead!

2Co 5:8 We live with a joyful confidence, yet at the same time we take delight in the thought of leaving our bodies behind to be at home with the Lord.

Ever try to talk to a person whose "spirit" has left their body?

They don't remember anything.

 

[Gregoryp]

'For the word of God is quick, and powerful,
and sharper than any twoedged sword,
piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,
and of the joints and marrow,
and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in His sight:
but all things are naked and opened
unto the eyes of Him with Whom we have to do.'
(Heb 4:12-13)

This thread has degenerated into something which is far from God honouring.

Please stop.

This is a sign of the end times, satan and his demons will stop at nothing to destroy the truth. People come here seeking answers, and all they see is division, mayhem and chaos. Just what the enemy intends. Organised religion was destroyed a long time ago by the enemy and mans avoidance of the truth. Thats not to say all people sitting in church buildings are the enemy, they are just lost. Coming here to find the truth, and this is what the discover?? Its not just happening here, I see it in car forums, bus forums etc, not just spiritual forums. Divide and conquer is there mantra.

 

[complete]

This is a sign of the end times, Satan and his demons will stop at nothing to destroy the truth. People come here seeking answers, and all they see is division, mayhem and chaos. Just what the enemy intends. Organised religion was destroyed a long time ago by the enemy and mans avoidance of the truth. That's not to say all people sitting in church buildings are the enemy, they are just lost. Coming here to find the truth, and this is what the discover?? Its not just happening here, I see it in car forums, bus forums etc, not just spiritual forums. Divide and conquer is there mantra.

'So shall My word be that goeth forth out of My mouth:
it shall not return unto Me void,
but it shall accomplish that which I please,
and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.'
(Isa 55:11)

Hello @Gregoryp,

It is encouraging that we are assured that the word of God will not return unto Him 'void', it will accomplish that which He purposes in them that hear. If the good news of the grace of God is sounded forth, it will achieve it's purpose.

I heard the word preached. It entered into my mind and heart and brought light, showing me my condition before God as a sinner in need of salvation, it also gave me the knowledge of the provision by God of the Saviour, in the person of His Son the Lord Jesus Christ. Who took the penalty of our sin upon Himself and died in our place, thus securing the way for lost sinners to come to God the Father through Him, and be reconciled to Him. We thereby receive the gifts of God's righteousness, and of eternal life through Him.

Praise God!

All is not lost, the truth will be heard
nothing and no one can stop God's will being done.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Sue D.]

But this forum is Not meant to be a substitute for going to church.

Back in the New Testament the first churches were established during the missionary journeys of Paul and the men who went with him. There are seven that we learn about in Asia. Those are mentioned also in first couple of chapters in Revelation. And we also have instructions for behavior and leadership in the local church level.

 

[complete]

But this forum is Not meant to be a substitute for going to church.

Back in the New Testament the first churches were established during the missionary journeys of Paul and the men who went with him. There are seven that we learn about in Asia. Those are mentioned also in first couple of chapters in Revelation. And we also have instructions for behavior and leadership in the local church level.

Hello @Sue D.

Such was the state of affairs at the end of Paul's life, that when he wrote his last epistle, to Timothy, he was talking not in terms of the corporate church, but in terms of the individual believer before God. For all in Asia had turned away from Paul. Timothy also at Ephesus was surrounded by argument, debate and strife. Timothy was exhorted by Paul to rise above the strife, and show himself to be one who was 'approved unto God' by 'rightly dividing the word of truth'. (2 Timothy 2:15) This is what we all should be doing.

Today, we must measure the words spoken from the pulpit, like the Bereans of Acts 17:11, receive the word with all readiness of mind, but search the Scriptures daily to see if those things spoken are indeed true. For there are many deceivers out there, whether within or outside the pulpit.

It is not possible for some believers to attend a place of worship in their locality because what is preached is not in accord with what is written in God's word. It is not a matter of refusing to attend a church assembly, or be involved in a church community, for it's own sake. It is generally a matter of doctrine, and of conscience.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris

 

[Sue D.]

Take a look at 1 Corinthians 1:1-2 which is being written to the church at 'Corinth.'. But that's not one of the churches listed in book of Revelation. However , the church of Ephesus is and we have the book of Ephesians. Paul is addressing the saints / believers who are in Ephesus and faithful in Christ Jesus.

And in the book of Titus. The group of believers needed guidance and so elders are appointed. The terms elders and bishop are used interchangeably and the term 'pastor' can be used here, also. And the qualifications for them are given.

And ever since then most every community has a church of various denominations to choose from.

And yes, one of the things that we are told to do is be checking what is being taught to make sure it's really in the Bible.

And yes sometimes depending on a person's location , a good Bible teaching church is not local. So a person travels to where there is one or start a Bible study on your community. That's what missionaries do. And they can go door to door and invite people to come to a location -maybe their own home to read scripture to them.

 

[Rhema]

Back in the New Testament the first churches were established during the missionary journeys of Paul and the men who went with him.

Peter would disagree with you, Sue:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. ... And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.​

(Acts 2:38-41, 46, 47 KJV)​

Peter set up house churches for communion.

Sigh,
Rhema

 

[Garee]

@complete -- you commented about that episode is a doctrine of the Pharisees

Whena person dies , the body like we hav now gradually starts to decay. And it's true that a physically dead person can't hear or see anything. But the 'real' person the soul is still alive and conscious of what's going on.

So yes, we Do need to Beware. There is a very real eternity in each person's future. What are we doing Now. The rich man realized too late and wanted 'someone' to warn his brothers so they could avoid his fate.

Same goes for today. Do we heed or ignore or put off a decision until 'tomorrow'.

I would agree.

There are many divisions that come because of parables. . The signified tongue of God or called hidden manna like the one in Luke 16 or like in Revelations 20.

It seems many fear the law that informs us without parables Christ spoke not hiding the gospel understanding from natural unconverted mankind. Therefore choosing to literalize losing the value of faith. (the unseen eternal)

 

[Sue D.]

Peter would disagree with you, Sue:

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. ... And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.​

(Acts 2:38-41, 46, 47 KJV)​

Peter set up house churches for communion.

Sigh,
Rhema

Peter Did set up house churches

And Paul went on his missionary journeys and churches were established in Corinth and Ephesus and Galatia and Philippi.

His 1st was A.D.46-48
2nd was A.D.49-48
3 Rd was 53 - 57

And his trip to Rome was A.D.59 - 60.

 

[Rhema]

Back in the New Testament the first churches were established during the missionary journeys of Paul and the men who went with him.

Sue, the first churches were established by Peter. Your own Bible says so. Go argue with it.

 

[Rhema]

The terms elders and bishop are used interchangeably

(Where do you come up with these things?)
.

 

[Sue D.]

Rhema please reread post 391.

From the Bible. Where do you get Yours from.

 

[Rhema]

Rhema please reread post 391.

Sue, please reread post 393.

 

[Sue D.]

(Where do you come up with these things?)
.

Look at Titus 1:5-9.. with those terms are used.

 

[Garee]

Sue, the first churches were established by Peter. Your own Bible says so. Go argue with it.

A church is made up of two or three that gather together under the hearing of His word the gospel.

Adam and Eve the first family or nation

It is not founded or established on any man.

 

[Sue D.]

In the New Testament we have Paul's missionary trips and the groups / churches that were established. We find that in Acts 13 / 15/ 18 - 21 / 27 and lots of Bibles have the map of his various missionary trips in the back of the Bible.

 

[Sue D.]

And , yes where two or three are gathered together in his name there is the Holy Spirit in the midst of them.

 

[Garee]

In the New Testament we have Paul's missionary trips and the groups / churches that were established. We find that in Acts 13 / 15/ 18 - 21 / 27 and lots of Bibles have the map of his various missionary trips in the back of the Bible.

Yes I have one like that.

I would offer. . The bible gives us a wilderness map of the apostle Moses . They crossed the red Sea towards the promised land used to represent the unseen heavenly Jerusalem or Zion.