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Lazarus and the Rich man...

Look at Titus 1:5-9.. with those terms are used.
πρεσβύτερος (elder) is used 67 times in the New Testament. The modern equivalent would be church council.

ἐπίσκοπος (Bishop) is found only 5 times. The modern equivalent is pastor.

And best not to forget διάκονος (minister) either - 30 times.

These are not the same thing. (Go ask your pastor.)

Rhema
(But I know you won't.)
 
Jas 2:26 For just as a human body without the spirit is a dead corpse, so faith without the expression of good works is dead!

2Co 5:8 We live with a joyful confidence, yet at the same time we take delight in the thought of leaving our bodies behind to be at home with the Lord.

Ever try to talk to a person whose "spirit" has left their body?

They don't remember anything.
Hello @Curtis,

I would like to refer to your use of the verse 2 Corinthians 5:8, 'We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.'.

Those words expressed the desire of the Apostle Paul, didn't it? To be present with the Lord. Yet this would necessitate resurrection. Resurrection (and not death) is the subject of the context of that verse.

These words are generally misquoted, by saying, “Absent from the body, present with the Lord”, as though it said that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord. But no such sentence can be found. No less than nine words are deliberately omitted from the context when this verse is quoted in that way. The omission of these words creates quite a new sense, and puts the verse out of all harmony with the context; the object of which is to show that we cannot be “present with the Lord” except by being clothed upon with our RESURRECTION body, our “house which is from heaven”.

The context is, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be - absent from the body, - and to be - present with the Lord” (v. 8). By omitting the words printed in italics the sense is entirely changed. Being “at home in the body” in both verses is explained, in verse 4 as being in “this tabernacle”, which, in v. 1, is called “our earthly house of this tabernacle”; and being “present (or at home with) the Lord” is explained in verse 2 as being “clothed upon with our house which is from heaven”. The Apostle distinctly says, on the one hand, that he did not wish to die (v. 4, “not that we would be unclothed”); and on the other hand, he was not merely “willing rather” but “earnestly desiring to be clothed upon” (v.2). It is true that some years later he did say “to die is gain”; but as we have seen above, the circumstances were very different, for he was then in prison.

Is this how you view this verse, Curtis? :)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
πρεσβύτερος (elder) is used 67 times in the New Testament. The modern equivalent would be church council.

ἐπίσκοπος (Bishop) is found only 5 times. The modern equivalent is pastor.

And best not to forget διάκονος (minister) either - 30 times.

These are not the same thing. (Go ask your pastor.)

Rhema
(But I know you won't.)

Pastors are married elders. Husband and wife. The pastoral ministry is two or three to include the children. They are an example to the flock to include to the other elders who might not be married .

Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
 
@Rhema -- since you come across as always having the right correct answer in everything -- according to You. Why bother asking my pastor.

In other words a church leader is a bishop or elder or pastor. They are all to be men who are teaching the congregation God's Word and leading in various forms of worship.

@Garee I think you reffered to Moses as being an apostle. Apostles are only in New Testament. It might seem like he was an apostle because of the close relationship between he and God. He was chosen by God to lead the children of Israel out of their bondage in Egypt. His allowed Aaron to be his helper.
 
@Rhema -- since you come across as always having the right correct answer in everything -- according to You. Why bother asking my pastor.

In other words a church leader is a bishop or elder or pastor. They are all to be men who are teaching the congregation God's Word and leading in various forms of worship.

@Garee I think you reffered to Moses as being an apostle. Apostles are only in New Testament. It might seem like he was an apostle because of the close relationship between he and God. He was chosen by God to lead the children of Israel out of their bondage in Egypt. His allowed Aaron to be his helper.

Moses did not send his own self but was called from above. If you let the Bible define the word Apostle It simply means "sent ones" Some have changed by adding new meaning as "venerable ones" it makes the meaning God has given to no effect . The apostle Abel was the first recorded apostle and first recorded martyr.

The atheist elders (1 Samuel 8) gathered them selves together because of the jealousy of the surrounding pagan nation they refused to serve a God not seen
 
Hello @Curtis,

I would like to refer to your use of the verse 2 Corinthians 5:8, 'We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.'.

Those words expressed the desire of the Apostle Paul, didn't it? To be present with the Lord. Yet this would necessitate resurrection. Resurrection (and not death) is the subject of the context of that verse.

These words are generally misquoted, by saying, “Absent from the body, present with the Lord”, as though it said that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord. But no such sentence can be found. No less than nine words are deliberately omitted from the context when this verse is quoted in that way. The omission of these words creates quite a new sense, and puts the verse out of all harmony with the context; the object of which is to show that we cannot be “present with the Lord” except by being clothed upon with our RESURRECTION body, our “house which is from heaven”.

The context is, “We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be - absent from the body, - and to be - present with the Lord” (v. 8). By omitting the words printed in italics the sense is entirely changed. Being “at home in the body” in both verses is explained, in verse 4 as being in “this tabernacle”, which, in v. 1, is called “our earthly house of this tabernacle”; and being “present (or at home with) the Lord” is explained in verse 2 as being “clothed upon with our house which is from heaven”. The Apostle distinctly says, on the one hand, that he did not wish to die (v. 4, “not that we would be unclothed”); and on the other hand, he was not merely “willing rather” but “earnestly desiring to be clothed upon” (v.2). It is true that some years later he did say “to die is gain”; but as we have seen above, the circumstances were very different, for he was then in prison.

Is this how you view this verse, Curtis? :)
Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
Php 1:21 For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better.
Php 1:22 But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better.
Php 1:23 I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me.
Php 1:24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.
Php 1:25 Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith.

Paul knew his life was nearing its end, but he was torn between either staying in his physical body to help the Church or to go and be with the Lord. (physically die)

So, I am assuming you do not think anyone is in Heaven right now until the physical resurrection?
 
A born again believer , upon their death will be in the presence of Jesus Christ immediately. What ever that entails.
 
@Rhema -- since you come across as always having the right correct answer in everything -- according to You. Why bother asking my pastor.
So someone you respect can tell you that Bishop and Elder don't mean the same thing.
(But I knew you'd come up with some excuse, since, heaven forbid, Sue can NEVER be wrong. :eek: )

Rhema
 
These words are generally misquoted, by saying, “Absent from the body, present with the Lord”, as though it said that when we are absent from the body we are present with the Lord.
Whose timeline ??

In the blink of an eye, from physical life into the resurrection, no time would pass in the consciousness of that person who would be present with the Lord, though millennia in the timeline of history may have passed.

Rhema

The actual verb is written in the infinitive - to be-home (present), indicating the time perspective of the person being absent.. It's not written in the present tense (are home) to indicate the "now" of a shared common timeline.

Isn't Aktionsart fun?
 
Whose timeline ??

In the blink of an eye, from physical life into the resurrection, no time would pass in the consciousness of that person who would be present with the Lord, though millennia in the timeline of history may have passed.

Rhema

The actual verb is written in the infinitive - to be-home (present), indicating the time perspective of the person being absent.. It's not written in the present tense (are home) to indicate the "now" of a shared common timeline.

Isn't Aktionsart fun?

You sure do know hoe to use your knowledge of the Greek to tear down scripture.

I'll Google aktionsart.to see what you're talking about
 
I just googled the term. It's sounds like it's getting deeper into grammar.

Guess I'm just satisfied with English
 
@Garee I think you reffered to Moses as being an apostle. Apostles are only in New Testament. It might seem like he was an apostle because of the close relationship between he and God. He was chosen by God to lead the children of Israel out of their bondage in Egypt. His allowed Aaron to be his helper.

Moses was one as well as Rehab or all the judges like Deborah .

Words have meaning attached to them by the author. Adding new meaning changing the authorship and intent of the first ..Apostle sent one.

I would call it plagiarism at its highest

Abel was sent to share the good news with Cain .His unbelieving brother influenced by the god of this world murdered him and buried him under .establishing the pagan foundation. . out of sight out of mind ,.as in. I don't know where my brother is . I'm not my brothers keeper .

Catholicism simply changed the meaning of sent one (apostle) to venerable ones as that needed to develop their hierarchy of venerable worship-able men lording it over the faith or understanding of the pew warmers. The abomination of desolation spoken of in Daniel . There is no pecking order in the family of God .
 
Regarding apostles --

Acts 1:2 -- apostles He had chosen

Romans 1:1

Matthew 10:2. -- apostles named.
 
You sure do know hoe to use your knowledge of the Greek to tear down scripture.
Dear,

The New Testament was written in Greek. Your translations have "torn down" scripture.


I just googled the term. It's sounds like it's getting deeper into grammar.

Guess I'm just satisfied with English
And just where did you think your "English" came from ??

Of course it's getting deeper into grammar. It's not like you ever read the New Testament, Sue. You've only read translations. One would hope to GOD that the translators upon which you rely were competent in Greek grammar. But they weren't. Not completely. (See above link.) That's why you have doctrines that are solely based upon misinterpretation. Yet you always think you're right.

Now I know you accuse me of the same thing, but dear, ... I did the work.

Please do take the time to read my other post (see link above). I could have done a "copy and paste" but thought it better to just give you a link.

Rhema
 
Regarding apostles --

Acts 1:2 -- apostles He had chosen

Romans 1:1

Matthew 10:2. -- apostles named.


Yes all prophets chosen and sent by God are apostles. Or Hebrew shaliaḥ

In the new testament there are 25 listed 12 were set aside for a specific reason found in the book of Revelation. The word 12 is used to represent the authroity of God .
 
Php 1:21 For to me, living means living for Christ, and dying is even better.
Php 1:22 But if I live, I can do more fruitful work for Christ. So I really don’t know which is better.
Php 1:23 I’m torn between two desires: I long to go and be with Christ, which would be far better for me.
Php 1:24 But for your sakes, it is better that I continue to live.
Php 1:25 Knowing this, I am convinced that I will remain alive so I can continue to help all of you grow and experience the joy of your faith.

Paul knew his life was nearing its end, but he was torn between either staying in his physical body to help the Church or to go and be with the Lord. (physically die)

So, I am assuming you do not think anyone is in Heaven right now until the physical resurrection?
Hello @Curtis,

Correct. :)

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
In the new testament there are 25 listed...
Might you name the 25 listed apostles in the New Testament ?

I know of 15 off the top of my head...., also a possible 16th and 17th.
And 18 were one to include Jesus, as I think you do.

Rhema
 
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Regarding apostles --
Just a polite question, Sue.

How many Apostles are there in the New Testament?
And does your church teach that Jesus is an Apostle?

Rhema

(I asked @Garee to name them, so you can too if you wish.)
 
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