Limited atonement !

[Butch5]

Who ? Those He died for, DUH Titus 2:14

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Didnt you know that those who He gave Himself for are them He died for ? Thats what giving Himself means here.

Was Paul a human being?

 

[Butch5]

Thats your opinion they out of context, I see all the scripture Im using as making a biblical point.

It's not my opinion. I took you through several chapters of Romans to prove it.

Notice I said several chapters. Not a verse here and a verse there.

On the other hand you jump form boon to book grabbing a passage hare and a passage there.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

True racism is evidence of low intelligence. You have yet to pass a grade 4 biology exam if you are a racist.

I say 'true', so please try grasp that if you disagree. You have not grasped it with th

Neither intelligence nor education is a cure for ignorance...Even a genius can be racist.

 

[Rhema]

Yes. Cultural tradition is something of an obstacle we are advised to not lead us.

I would offer that "Religious Tradition" is an even more powerful obstacle than that of culture. I walked out of a church service yesterday (we were visiting) when the "children's message" turned out to be merely an indoctrination of that (evil) mis-translation of 2nd Timothy 3:16. I felt both helpless and furious at the same time. (It would seem that's been a constant state of mind for me recently.) Had I stayed for the sermon, it would likely have been impossible for me to suppress the temptation to stand up and shout "HERESY, that's not what the Bible's Greek text actually says!!" Of course that would have helped nobody, so my wife and I just left. (There is no IS in the Greek text of that verse. They added in words. (And you know how that riles me up. I suffered a one year ban here because I objected to (... uh... strongly opposed...) certain members who changed the words).

That said, I've recently run into a "new" church nearby that used tacos and guacamole for their communion elements. Other times it might be pizza and beer. Or hot dogs and Coke.

Isn't that just wrong ??

No wonder Jesus lamented whether faith would still be on the earth when he returns. And I've heard of one Mennonite denomination here in PA that makes sure someone is named Faith in their church so that Jesus would be pleased. (You know, I need to find a face palm emoji.)

Would 'people' be OK?

I think that would dimish the directed scope. One couldn't readily state that Jesus appeared to all people. He hasn't, or else evangelism wouldn't be necessary. But the Grace of God has been "presented" (appeared) to all Mankind (in general) as manifest through Jesus and his teachings.

Amongst the many problems that translators face is the consideration of linguistic artifacts - the unintended consequences that arise from poorly selected words in the target language. An example of this would be "everlasting punishment" in Matthew 25:46 when the Greek text states, "permanent pruning" (as in to be cut off forever). This more accurate word for word translation, however, supports the Doctrine of Obliteration so (HERESY) we must "tweak" the translation to fit our cherished religious tradition. Yeah, I think about all of this a lot. (Again, furious helplessness.) And yes, the Strong's entry for κόλασις is wrong. I'd post the Liddell Scott link, but Tuft's University's computer servers are having problems, rolleyes: I jest that they're switching to Windows 11).

The BIG mistake of Martin Luther was to think that other people, when reading his German translation of the Bible, couldn't possibly arrive at a different conclusion than he did. That's actually why he made his German translation... so people could read the Bible for themselves in order to understand that he, Martin Luther, was RIGHT. (Well that didn't happen.)

giving sight to the blind is (part of) God's mercy?

Well it certainly is merciful, both in the physical and in the mental.

... cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers;​

(Ephesians 1:16 KJV)​

What prayers?

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened (un-blinded); that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,​

(Ephesians 1:17-18 KJV)​

Thank you for the encouragement. Something I am comforted by. A faithful obedience on your part, according to what is written.

You are most welcome my brother. I work hard to establish such a thing in my life each and every second of the day. (Not sure how successful I am .)

Rhema

BTW, you might be interested to know that "Meek" doesn't mean wimpy or "milquetoast," or even "humble" for that matter. (Hey, Strong did his best.) Rather, we know now that the adjective πραΰ́ς was used to describe a warhorse that wouldn't break training when in battle. So after about three months of looking at this, I currently believe that the English word "Steadfast" is best. "Blessed, the Steadfast (be), for they shall inherit the Earth."

"Stead" traces back through the German to:

stede (plural stedes or steden) NOUN -​

A steed; a fine stallion (especially if suited for war)​

"Fast" traces back to "Firm Place."

So... a warhorse that firmly stays his place.

(Ain't this fun?)

 

[Rhema]

True racism is evidence of low intelligence. You have yet to pass a grade 4 biology exam if you are a racist.

??

Are Nazi's racist? Certainly the ones who developed Zyklon B could readily pass a grade 4 biology exam.

(As an aside, do you ever change your mind when presented with facts that contradict your didactic assertions?)

Kindly, (for now)
Rhema

I say 'true', so please try grasp that if you disagree. You have not grasped it with this reply of yours.

So how are Nazis not 'true' racists?

 

[KingJ]

??

Are Nazi's racist? Certainly the ones who developed Zyklon B could readily pass a grade 4 biology exam.

(As an aside, do you ever change your mind when presented with facts that contradict your didactic assertions?)

Kindly, (for now)
Rhema



So how are Nazis not 'true' racists?

You are clearly coming unstuck on this racist thing .

At large, no, Nazis were not 'race' ist. Pop goes little brains everywhere .

Nazis were at large culturalists. Hitler and a few wanted a 'master race', but that is a completely separate matter.

A pure racist hates someone because of their ''race''. IE Portuguese person hating a British person because he has lighter skin and speaks with an odd accent.

To hate someone because of their race, when there is so little differences in makeup between humans is a idiotic as it comes. I take it back, such people will not pass a grade 1 test.

Most white people hated the culture of black people. Just as the Romans hated the culture of the barbaric Europeans. You could argue that they are ''cultural'' racists. This is something smart people can have. I hate cultures that teach you must sacrifice virgins for example.

If you want a proper discussion on this start a new thread.

I see you have now in your last two posts completely dodged responding to the rebuttal of your post.

 

[KingJ]

Neither intelligence nor education is a cure for ignorance...Even a genius can be racist.

A genius can never be racist. A genius will know that if the tables were turned, a black African could just have easily enslaved Europeans and treated them unfairly.

A person ''who does not use their brain much'' will think a persons race makes them inferior or undeserving of heaven, as in the case of Calvinists.

I come from South Africa. During apartheid the white churches taught that black people were descendants of Cain and damned for life. They were aligned with Calvinistic ideology. Praised the guy.

The vast majority are culturalists. Not racists. But in the case of Calvinism, it is as though one is a pure racist.

 

[Rhema]

I go to Greek if it's necessary. I doubt you could put me in a corner on core beliefs.

One could wonder what you mean by "core beliefs," but in my books you are a heretic misrepresenting God at a very high level. (And I'm sure you think the same about me.)

Separate topic. If you want to discuss my intelligence start a new thread .

Oh I don't think that's necessary. I think the matter to be obvious.

Intentional pun.

Yet... that wasn't a pun. (Might I be correct in thinking that English is a second language for you?)

Try and grasp that Calvinists teach what should be unthinkable. Let that fact sink in.

Why? I'm not a Calvinist.

How many people do you think such a message will lead to Jesus?

Calvinists don't care, because they believe that the matter was settled before the world even began.

You cannot preach a more wicked message.

Actually, one can, but you don't know about it yet.

A Christian works out their salvation in fear and trembling before God Phil 2:12.

However, your understanding of verse 12 is contradicted by verse 13:

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.​

(Philippians 2:13 KJV)​

If a Christian is supposed to "work out" his or her own salvation, then that would contradict the next verse that says "it is God that works in you," rather than you. But why do I get the feeling that you've stopped listening?

So... since you know that the New Testament texts were written in Greek, then go check your Greek here:

μετα φοβου και τρομου την εαυτων σωτηριαν κατεργαζεσθε​

μετα (AMIDST - whilst in the midst / middle of) φοβου (OF FEAR) και (AND) τρομου (OF ANXIETY) την (THE) εαυτων (OF YOU) σωτηριαν (SALVATION) κατεργαζεσθε(PERFORM !!).​

So..... regardless of the fear and anxiety one may have, perform(!) your salvation, for it is GOD active in you ... "both to will and to do of his good pleasure." This passage is an encouragement to those who are saved, not an instruction on how to get saved.

I go to Greek if it's necessary.

Then please, I beg you to do so.

You like to talk around a topic and type words that really just waste time. You must be a writer.

Not to worry. I'm a touch typist.

Rhema

 

[KingJ]

(As an aside, do you ever change your mind when presented with facts that contradict your didactic assertions?)

Insert rolling eyes. Why did they remove that....

 

[Rhema]

You are clearly coming unstuck on this racist thing .

And clearly you are mistaken.

At large, no, Nazis were not 'race' ist. Pop goes little brains everywhere .

In the light of overwhelming evidence here, it would not be unkind of me to say that it is your little brain that has popped. BUT... I'll just need to let your bizarre statement stand on its own. It's become obvious that you "know it all" and are not open to correction or discussion of anything that might disagree with you.

Given that, I shall graciously bow out, until you actually show some penchant to learn.

... the rebuttal of your post.

Rebuttal? What rebuttal? Am I now dealing with someone delusional? Or merely uneducated? I'm having a hard time telling.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Insert rolling eyes. Why did they remove that....

Thank you for the confirmation. It is much appreciated.

 

[Rhema]

Hitler and a few wanted a 'master race',

As a member of that master race, you are rather making their point for them here.

But again, I need to acknowledge that there is nothing I can do to alter your deep seated conclusions arising from what I can only take to be a horrific environment that has caused you to live amidst fear and anxiety.

Peace to you,
Rhema

I deeply encourage you to let go of your hatred for Calvinists.

 

[KingJ]

One could wonder what you mean by "core beliefs," but in my books you are a heretic misrepresenting God at a very high level. (And I'm sure you think the same about me.)

I have not discussed enough with you to know what you believe. I like how you crave attention from posters. You are fast coming across as a egotistical troll.

Oh I don't think that's necessary. I think the matter to be obvious.

LMAO

You have YET to respond to my rebuttal of your nonsensical selection of scripture and you are already making statements like that. You are nothing more then a well spoken troll. You have yet to prove you type anything of value.

But, since you want to go here, tell me your qualifications. Let's compare. Cringe that I have to type this....lmao

Yet... that wasn't a pun. (Might I be correct in thinking that English is a second language for you?)

Try the dictionary again, you failed. ''Rhema, quickly proceeds to google pun and facepalms himself''

Why? I'm not a Calvinist.

Never said you were. Is English your second language?

Calvinists don't care, because they believe that the matter was settled before the world even began.

Clearly.....why you so smart. You missed the point made.... I will wait for you to realize that.

Actually, one can, but you don't know about it yet.

It was a rhetorical statement. I mentioned another in the post. You battling to read I see, is English your second language?

However, your understanding of verse 12 is contradicted by verse 13:

For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.​

(Philippians 2:13 KJV)​

If a Christian is supposed to "work out" his or her own salvation, then that would contradict the next verse that says "it is God that works in you," rather than you. But why do I get the feeling that you've stopped listening?

You are raising a separate topic. Try stay on topic. The two verses have truths to them. It is fine to use verse 12 as a stand alone verse for the purpose I did.

But imagine having that discussion with you, when you are already so far off topic.

So... since you know that the New Testament texts were written in Greek, then go check your Greek here:

μετα φοβου και τρομου την εαυτων σωτηριαν κατεργαζεσθε​

μετα (AMIDST - whilst in the midst / middle of) φοβου (OF FEAR) και (AND) τρομου (OF ANXIETY) την (THE) εαυτων (OF YOU) σωτηριαν (SALVATION) κατεργαζεσθε(PERFORM !!).​

So..... regardless of the fear and anxiety one may have, perform(!) your salvation, for it is GOD active in you ... "both to will and to do of his good pleasure." This passage is an encouragement to those who are saved, not an instruction on how to get saved.


Then please, I beg you to do so.

Ok, you are a troll. You quote the Greek that says exactly what the KJV said. Then quote verse 13, when you did not post the Greek for it .

And....you are making a new topic out of the two passages. It is Calvinistic in nature, I guess. Do you really want a discussion on verse 13? Do you interpret it as Calvinists do? Or are you just trolling?

Not to worry. I'm a touch typist.

Rhema

I think you missed my point. Again.

 

[KingJ]

As a member of that master race, you are rather making their point for them here.

I take it my entire post flew over your head. Try reading it again.

But again, I need to acknowledge that there is nothing I can do to alter your deep seated conclusions arising from what I can only take to be a horrific environment that has caused you to live amidst fear and anxiety.

Where did that come from? Are you asking Google AI what next to type?

I deeply encourage you to let go of your hatred for Calvinists.

Calling their belief evidence of low intelligence is hardly hatred. When you ask Google what a pun is, also ask it what hatred is.

 

[KingJ]

As a member of that master race, you are rather making their point for them here.

Stop making ambiguous statements like a troll. Explain yourself.

 

[KingJ]

@Rhema

Prove to me how racism is not evidence of low inteligence.

Correct me, floor is yours.

Please note that stating that Nazis were smart and racist is not an answer. Try focus.

 

[Rhema]

Stop making ambiguous statements like a troll. Explain yourself.

Yes, sorry, I can see how that would be ambiguous to you.

As a member of that master race, you are rather making their point for them here.

Allow me to rephrase....

As a member of that master race, being German, I can readily say that you are making their point for them.



Hope that helps to clarify,
Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Try focus.

Try proofread.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings men,

Please consider continuing teething in private.
Any further unpleasantries may be deleted.

Work together.
May rephrase that
(Wisdom is referred to as 'she' and 'her'.

Work to-get-her (together)

Post in peace. Remember the principal thing.


Bless you ....><>

PS: it was the Lord Who opened my eyes. Prior to that, I was in ignorance and blind to much/most while considering my 'intelligence' to be good.
I realized how empty my 'intelligence' was, upon being quickened.

If you have tasted and seen that the LORD is good, I think you will understand.

 

[Rhema]

Please consider continuing teething in private.
Any further unpleasantries may be deleted.

Br. Bear, thank you for the edification. While I was steadfast in holding my tongue (save for the irony of my last post) I was somewhat hoping that a few of the previous unpleasantries would have been deleted.

Post in peace. Remember the principal thing.

To some extent, there are two things - Spirit and Truth.

PS: it was the Lord Who opened my eyes. Prior to that, I was in ignorance and blind to much/most while considering my 'intelligence' to be good.
I realized how empty my 'intelligence' was, upon being quickened.

Empty, perhaps - (the Solid Mental Grace) - but "useless"? One would hope not. Come, let us reason together, while intelligence is not the basis for the Love that should be shown in the Spirit, it most certainly is necessary for ensuring that Truth is True.

But I concede your point that one should not be without the other.

Rhema