Limited atonement !

[Brightfame52]

Brightfame52 - Only some are called.
Jesus - Many are called.

Own your errors, @Brightfame52

Look who talking

 

[Rockerduck]

Thank you for admitting that your assertion below was wrong

God is right and you are wrong. Don't disagree with God.

Deuteronomy 29:29“The Lord our God has secrets known to no one.

 

[Butch5]

That God only intended Salvation for a particular people, and Christ died only for that people is seen in Gods Covenant Promises,

Gen 17:7-8

.And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.”
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

Heb 8:10

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Salvation is promised to a specific seed Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 16

The problem is that you're assuming God is choosing who is and is not one of the seed.

The seed in that promise to Abraham is Christ.

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

No, I can only be as clear as what I have already posted. Its beyond my ability to make you understand things I understand, thats Gods business

Well, I suppose thats one way of answering a question you have no answer to

 

[Rhema]

God is right and you are wrong. Don't disagree with God.

Deuteronomy 29:29“The Lord our God has secrets known to no one.

But that's NOT what you said.

This is what you said:

You can never know the mind of God

I hadn't known you were so disingenuous.

Rhema
(But I do now.)

 

[Rhema]

Salvation is promised to a specific seed Rom 4:16

16 Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, 16

For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us,​

(Romans 4:16 NRSV)​

Anyone can share the faith of Abraham by having faith like Abraham... Anyone.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Well, I suppose thats one way of answering a question you have no answer to

The more I encounter Calvinists, the more it feels like a cult.

Rhema

 

[Brightfame52]

The problem is that you're assuming God is choosing who is and is not one of the seed.

The seed in that promise to Abraham is Christ.

You way off

 

[Brightfame52]

Well, I suppose thats one way of answering a question you have no answer to

I suppose so. Read the thread

 

[Brightfame52]

For this reason it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his descendants, not only to the adherents of the law but also to those who share the faith of Abraham (for he is the father of all of us,​

(Romans 4:16 NRSV)​

Anyone can share the faith of Abraham by having faith like Abraham... Anyone.

Rhema

No anyone cant. Faith is given to the seed, its the Faith of Gods elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

 

[Admon Mikha'el]

I suppose so. Read the thread

Brighteyes l have cognitive problems, you can't help me out

 

[Brightfame52]

We know Jesus Christ Death was Limited, and not for all because Christ by his death has not taken away the sins of all men; for the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience for their sins. Eph 5:6

6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Because those whom Christ died, their sins have been taken away ! Jn 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.17

 

[KingJ]

@Brightfame52 @Rockerduck

How do you guys know that you are part of the elect?

Paul tells us in Phil 2:12 that we need to work out our salvation in fear and trembling before God and in 1 Cor 10:12 that if we think we are fine, take heed less you fall.

 

[KingJ]

Wow, fourth stab at asking @Rockerduck and @Brightfame52 to discuss and dead silence.

False teaching 101. Avoid rational discussion and listening to opposing views. Keep focused on the cherry picked ideology that makes you feel 'special' and 'chosen' .

Calvinism is a teaching I expect a kindergarten teacher to tell minors. ''You are special and will achieve wonderful things in your lives. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise''.

 

[Rhema]

No anyone cant. Faith is given to the seed, its the Faith of Gods elect Titus 1:1

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

It would seem that you think the elect are the saved ones.

I would point out that the word "elect" is NOT a noun in your verse, though, but rather an adjective (as is the case with all instances of G1588).

But if the elect (ones) are these already-saved ones, and there is no doubt, then why does Paul express doubt here?

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may-also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.​

(2 Timothy 2:10 KJV)​

It would seem they have not obtained salvation. Paul is enduring that these elect MAY (might) obtain salvation. In addition, "May-also" is one word in Greek. So with whom else is the elect ALSO receiving salvation if ONLY the elect are saved?

Again, it would seem that you replace the word "elect" with "believers." If the "elect" were believers, though, then why would Paul need to "endure" that they may-also obtain salvation?

Because "elect" means Jews of the biological lineage of Abraham - in the physical literal sense. He would wish the "elect" (Jews) to ALSO obtain salvation like those of the Gentiles who believe.

I rather think you have your definitions all mixed up.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[Brightfame52]

Christs death is limited to them He obtained Eternal Redemption for, since what He obtains for us He lives to ensure the application of it Heb 9:12

neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

Now by His own Blood signifies His Death, which by it He obtained eternal redemption for certain ones. Now who are they?

Recall back in Chapter 1 vs 14

Heb 1:14

14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

Its the heirs. Notice again Heb 6:17-18

. 17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: 18 that by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us

And the heirs of promise dont just consist of some jews, but some Gentiles, the Church the Body of Christ Gal 3:29

And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Brightfame52]

It would seem that you think the elect are the saved ones.

I would point out that the word "elect" is NOT a noun in your verse, though, but rather an adjective (as is the case with all instances of G1588).

But if the elect (ones) are these already-saved ones, and there is no doubt, then why does Paul express doubt here?

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may-also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.​

(2 Timothy 2:10 KJV)​

It would seem they have not obtained salvation. Paul is enduring that these elect MAY (might) obtain salvation. In addition, "May-also" is one word in Greek. So with whom else is the elect ALSO receiving salvation if ONLY the elect are saved?

Again, it would seem that you replace the word "elect" with "believers." If the "elect" were believers, though, then why would Paul need to "endure" that they may-also obtain salvation?

Because "elect" means Jews of the biological lineage of Abraham - in the physical literal sense. He would wish the "elect" (Jews) to ALSO obtain salvation like those of the Gentiles who believe.

I rather think you have your definitions all mixed up.

Blessings,
Rhema

Christ died specifically for the elect, that they might obtain the Salvation which is in Christ Jesus,which they will. 2 Tim 210

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Salvation in Christ is for none other than Gods elect

 

[Butch5]

You way off

You're just making arbitrary statements. If you can make a case for your position please do so.

 

[Brightfame52]

You're just making arbitrary statements. If you can make a case for your position please do so.

Hows that when I started this thread with my points provided ?

 

[Rockerduck]

Wow, fourth stab at asking @Rockerduck and @Brightfame52 to discuss and dead silence.

False teaching 101. Avoid rational discussion and listening to opposing views. Keep focused on the cherry picked ideology that makes you feel 'special' and 'chosen' .

Calvinism is a teaching I expect a kindergarten teacher to tell minors. ''You are special and will achieve wonderful things in your lives. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise''.

The Bible cannon existed way before Mr. Calvin. I only argue what the bible says. I don't attack denominations or beliefs, I state just my views. Yet you attack me as a Calvinist which I don't identify as. Liberals and Conservatives, Arminian and Calvinists have always existed, yet Aminians and liberals' attack. Why is that? I don't need your childish kindergarten comparison, like you did, which downgrades yourself to, instead lifting yourself up to just your view.