Limited atonement !

[Rhema]

You dont know salvation is by Grace instead of works ? Eph 2:8-9

You don't know that you are justified by works and not faith alone?

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

(James 2:24 KJV)

You saying it is of works, contrary to Gods word

You are saying it is of faith only, contrary to God's word.

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

All of Salvation is by Grace from A to Z,

Yes, GRACE:

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.​

(John 1:16-17 KJV)

And what is that truth that came from Grace?

And he said to them all, IF any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.​

(Luke 9:23 KJV)

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my LOGOS, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:​

(Luke 6:46-47 KJV)

I am the living bread which came down from heaven: IF any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.​

(John 6:51 KJV)

The bread of his teaching.
The wine of his Spirit.

Rhema
Why do you reject the teaching of Jesus? I'm curious, since HE is God's Word.

IF ye love me, keep my commandments.​

(John 14:15 KJV)

 

[Rhema]

All of Salvation is by Grace from A to Z, if you condition any part of salvation on works, you forfeit your claim to grace.

I've always found it fascinating that many people can take the phrase "By Grace are ye saved..." and somehow up in their minds turn it into "By Faith are ye saved..."

Technically, Sola Fide, ought to be Sola Gracia.

(Curious that Latin would be used instead of Greek.. but oh well...)

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

All of Salvation is by Grace from A to Z, if you condition any part of salvation on works, you forfeit your claim to grace.

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. ​

(Matthew 19:17 KJV)

Aren't the teachings of Jesus true?

Rhema

 

[Brightfame52]

You don't know that you are justified by works and not faith alone?

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.​

(James 2:24 KJV)


You are saying it is of faith only, contrary to God's word.

Rhema

Salvation is by Grace and not by works, lest anyone can boast. Eph 2-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

1 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

James is speaking of good works that follow after Salvation, works that evidence one having been saved

 

[Brightfame52]

I've always found it fascinating that many people can take the phrase "By Grace are ye saved..." and somehow up in their minds turn it into "By Faith are ye saved..."

Technically, Sola Fide, ought to be Sola Gracia.

(Curious that Latin would be used instead of Greek.. but oh well...)

Rhema

All of Salvation is by Grace from A to Z, if you condition any part of salvation on works, you forfeit your claim to grace. Gal 5 4

Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Law and works are one !

 

[Brightfame52]

And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. ​

(Matthew 19:17 KJV)

Aren't the teachings of Jesus true?

Rhema

Yeah they true, so are you now advocating salvation by keeping the law ? Thats a curse fellow Gal 3 10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[B-A-C]

Thats a curse fellow Gal 3 10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians is about ceremonial law, circumcision. The whole book is about being circumcised.

Gal 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.
Gal 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation
Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Gal 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Gal 2:9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Gal 6:12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Since you seem to prefer Paul over James and Jesus...
1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Jn 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

 

[Rhema]

Law and works are one !

Hmm... That might be the mistake right there, equating the two.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.​

(Romans 2:13 KJV)

Yeah they true, so are you now advocating salvation by keeping the law ? Thats a curse fellow Gal 3 10

I am astonished. I don't think I could ever have the guts to say that the teachings of Jesus are a curse.

(But I also just quoted Paul.)

Here is how I would "advocate" salvation, by a "law" (command) that Jesus gave -

... PRAY !! Our Father which art in heaven, ... forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.​

(Matthew 6:9...12)

If someone's sins are forgiven, how could they not be saved?

All of Salvation is by Grace from A to Z,

Yes, Grace is Jesus. By the Grace of God He sent His Son to teach us. It is through Him that we find out how to be forgiven:

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

(Acts 13:38 KJV)

All anyone has to do is ask through prayer.

God bless,

Rhema

 

[Rhema]

Since you seem to prefer Paul over James and Jesus...
1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

(Missed that one. Thank you.)

Indeed, those of the Circumcision believed that their salivation came through the ritual of circumcision.

Blessings,
Rhema

 

[B-A-C]

Yeah they true, so are you now advocating salvation by keeping the law ?

Luke 17:7 "Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'?
Luke 17:8 "But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink'?
Luke 17:9 "He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he?
Luke 17:10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

There is no boasting in keeping the commandments, Jesus doesn't "thank you" for doing just what you're supposed to be doing.

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Christ, and Christ in him. We know by this that Christ abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

We know by "this" that Jesus abides in us.

Matt 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 19:18 Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Matt 19:19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

 

[B-A-C]

Not stealing, lying, cheating on your wife, mistreating your parents. These are things we are commanded to do.
But mostly love God and love our neighbor. These aren't "good works" that earn your way into heaven.
Not obeying them are "bad works" that can keep you out of heaven.

Examples of good works would be.

Matt 25:35; 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
Matt 25:36; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'

Jas 1:27 Pure and undefiled religion in the sight of our God and Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their distress, and to keep oneself unstained by the world.

These are not the commandments, but they are good works.
Some like to quote...
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

But they like to leave out the next verse.

Eph 2:10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Jas 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

 

[Brightfame52]

Galatians is about ceremonial law, circumcision. The whole book is about being circumcised.

Gal 2:12 For prior to the coming of certain men from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he began to withdraw and hold himself aloof, fearing the party of the circumcision.
Gal 5:2 Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you.
Gal 5:3 And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law.
Gal 5:6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
Gal 5:11 But I, brethren, if I still preach circumcision, why am I still persecuted? Then the stumbling block of the cross has been abolished.
Gal 6:15 For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation
Gal 2:3 But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
Gal 2:7 But on the contrary, seeing that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been to the circumcised
Gal 2:8 (for He who effectually worked for Peter in his apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Gal 2:9 and recognizing the grace that had been given to me, James and Cephas and John, who were reputed to be pillars, gave to me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship, so that we might go to the Gentiles and they to the circumcised.
Gal 6:12 Those who desire to make a good showing in the flesh try to compel you to be circumcised, simply so that they will not be persecuted for the cross of Christ.
Gal 6:13 For those who are circumcised do not even keep the Law themselves, but they desire to have you circumcised so that they may boast in your flesh.

Since you seem to prefer Paul over James and Jesus...
1Cor 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God.

1Jn 2:3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1Jn 2:4 The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

Thats a curse fellow Gal 3 10

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 

[Brightfame52]

Hmm... That might be the mistake right there, equating the two.

For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.​

(Romans 2:13 KJV)


I am astonished. I don't think I could ever have the guts to say that the teachings of Jesus are a curse.

(But I also just quoted Paul.)

Here is how I would "advocate" salvation, by a "law" (command) that Jesus gave -

... PRAY !! Our Father which art in heaven, ... forgive us our sins, as we forgive those who sin against us.​

(Matthew 6:9...12)

If someone's sins are forgiven, how could they not be saved?


Yes, Grace is Jesus. By the Grace of God He sent His Son to teach us. It is through Him that we find out how to be forgiven:

Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:​

(Acts 13:38 KJV)

All anyone has to do is ask through prayer.

God bless,

Rhema

You stuck on salvation by works, thats not good, you have forsaken Grace friend

 

[Brightfame52]

Luke 17:7 "Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'?
Luke 17:8 "But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink'?
Luke 17:9 "He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he?
Luke 17:10 "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

There is no boasting in keeping the commandments, Jesus doesn't "thank you" for doing just what you're supposed to be doing.

John 14:21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him."
John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

1Jn 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight.
1Jn 3:24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Christ, and Christ in him. We know by this that Christ abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
2Jn 1:6 And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it.

We know by "this" that Jesus abides in us.

Matt 19:16 And someone came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?"
Matt 19:17 And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matt 19:18 Then he *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT MURDER; YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY; YOU SHALL NOT STEAL; YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS;
Matt 19:19 HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER; and YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

You better keep the whole law perfectly as Jesus did, not one minute slip up, not for a second, say goodby to Grace !

 

[Bill]

The truth of limited atonement is vital to the Christian Gospel, there's no Gospel without it. See 1 Cor 15:3. It refers specifically to the Death of Christ on the Cross, which death fully satisfied the law and justice of God for not all human beings but only for a certain group, the elect of God, Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world.

Now let's get one thing understood, when i speak of limited atonement, i don't mean by any means that Christ atoning death is limited in its power, but that its limited in that it doesn't cover or apply to everyone, but only applies to and covers the elect or chosen of God or the Church of God in Christ, or Gods Sheep.

Christ did not die on the cross for a few. He died on the cross for everyone, including both thieves that hung with him. One had compassion for Jesus , the other spit on Jesus, mocking Jesus as he died

 

[Twistie]

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error

 

[Brightfame52]

Christ did not die on the cross for a few. He died on the cross for everyone, including both thieves that hung with him. One had compassion for Jesus , the other spit on Jesus, mocking Jesus as he died

He died only for Gods elect, you believe that which is false friend

 

[B-A-C]

He died only for Gods elect, you believe that which is false friend

Scripture please.

1Jn 2:2; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

 

[Brightfame52]

Scripture please.

1Jn 2:2; and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

Read some articles on Tulip for scripture. That scripture you just showed is one for limited atonement. Propitiation is salvation, and we know all are not saved unless you a universalist.