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Mask talk???

I agree with Dave. This is more of an agenda. Wearing mask symbolizes silence and slavery. You may not think of it that way, but our subconscious knows. We are not supposed to wear masks, if we are not sick, or treating possible sick people. Also, not going to allow those in black suits decide for me what I wear, or what I put in my body. This vaccine idea is laughable when the scientific model used to prove the existence of a such a dangerous disease has not been done yet. I went to jail twice only for putting a substance in my body. So, if that is a crime in their mind, they also can criminalize not taking the vaccine. Blood will make lakes here before they can tell me to take something I don't want in my body. This is the US, and many of us will not go down easily here.

And when people tell me I'm not a doctor, then why is Mr. Bill Gates is sticking his nose into these matters? Last time, I checked he was some nerd who works as a software developer, but now he is a doctor lol?! I think our president is right about not trusting the WHO. Also, if we apply the Chinese-Model here, then also expect this country to be more like China in the future, and who wants that type of dictatorship here? Last time, my boyfriend and I went shopping, and I told the guard, if I have to put sanitizer, or have to go through temperature screening, then I am spending my money somewhere else. I'm getting sick of it.
It also allows easier abduction of children (mask wearing). You quickly throw some carried loose clothes in a baseball cap, shirt, shorts onto a child, tape over their mouth, turn their mask inside out and put back on. Scrunch up the pants so they dont show, and if a girl, stick the extra hair under the ball cap. I saw this example on FB, and it says it would take less than 45 seconds to do this, and then even the parents wouldnt notice their child, as the pedophile directs their child to a waiting car or van.
 
the ploy of the evil one is to set people against each other, when I see statement like this I cringe as I know how they come about, fear mongering and walking around scared is not from above but from below. Since when all of the sudden is it the gonv right to decide for us things concerning our health that is a personal responsibilty. When you look at the evil men pushing this vaccine and we know Bill gates has used vaccines in other countires that many died because of and he is not allowed back in to the country we must step and examine is this really about health. Bill gates is huge on depopulation and sterilizing people so they can reproduce, his wife wears a upside down cross. It saddens me to see so many being deceived in these end times we are living. I pray for all to receive the gift of discernment

Dave, I don't see that trying to avoid a risk is 'fear mongering and walking around scared', more just common sense.

I'm early sixties, in reasonably good health, not overweight, with no underlying health issues and reasonably fit so statistically I'm likely to overcome a Covid infection should I get it. So no I'm not walking around scared for myself but I have friends, relatives and work colleagues who I do fear for. If they were to be infected by me and die or suffer long term consequences, I'd feel pretty awful.

What I do see is the possibility of a chasm opening up between 'vulnerables' and 'non-vulnerables' if the latter adopt an I'm alright Jack mentality. In parts of Europe there's a resurgence happening and the suspicion is that it's being fuelled by the young. Have a look at - France sees 'exponential' rise in virus infections
We all of us need to genuinely care about others or as Jesus puts it, our neighbours. This is a fundamental doctrine of Christianity so we are better placed then anyone to lead by example. Ignoring a virus doesn't make it go away, no it actually feeds and multiplies it. For me viruses are in the same category as thorns and thistles Genesis 3:10, a byproduct of sin. They need to be overcome.

So yes, I believe the Church and governments have a role to play in combatting Covid-19; it's theirs and our duty, and so yes I wash my hands frequently, wear a mask and gloves and try as far as possible to practice social distancing.

And to answer your point about the scale of 1 to 10 Covid-19 isn't as potent as SARS where nearly 10% of the infected died but Covid-19 is far more infectious.
 
Dave, I don't see that trying to avoid a risk is 'fear mongering and walking around scared', more just common sense.

There gets to be a point, when it really isn't common sense.

Wear a mask in a store, to touch a box that has already been touched by the vendor, the person who shipped it, and the stock boy
who put it on the shelf. Put it n a cart touched by hundreds of people, even if you wipe off the handle with disenfectant, what about the rest of the cart anyone has touched. But it it on the conveyor belt that has been touched by hundreds of people, so the check out clerk who has touched literally hundreds of these boxes already today can touch yours and put it in your bag. Then she'll take your credit card from you
after she has touched literally hundreds of other today and give it back to you.

Where is the common sense here?

Even the mask itself doesn't prevent anything. The virus is smaller than the holes in your mask. But even if it protected your mouth
(I rarely see people covering their nose) what about your eyes? Viruses can enter that way as well.

Where is the common sense here?

So then why are people doing it? Because of fear mongering.

In the US there are more than 300 million people. It's VERY VERY likely that 80 to 90% of the people here have already
contacted it in one form or another. But even if they haven't, only 170,000 have died from it. Out of 300 million?
That's less than 1/3rd of 1 %. Almost everyone, including the CDC agree those numbers are inflated, possibly even doubled.
You have better odds of dying from cancer, heart-disease or diabetes. The death rates for the swine flu, bird, and spanish-flu
were all MUCH higher than COVID. Yet everyone is pacnicking over COVID.

It sure looks and smells like fear mongering.

There's a chance a meteor could fall from the sky and hit you. There's a chance you could be in a car accident.
There's a chance you could trip and fall and break a leg. Should we quit driving, walking or going outside because there's
a small chance something dangerous might happen?

Some states and mandating you wear a mask outside, "all the time" even if no one is within a 1,000 feet of you.
where is the sense in this? People even wear them in the cars, when no one else is in the car with them.

I can go into a restaurant, (I have to wear my mask to go in and order) but once I've ordered,
I can remove my mask and eat in the same room with dozens of other people, at the same table were dozens of others have sat today, touching the same chairs touched by other people. The dishes were touched by the waitress, dishwasher and cook.
Not to mention my credit card once again, with either the waitress or the cashier.

This is common sense?

Rom 8:15; For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
 
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What are small "mom and pop" businesses considered "non-essential"?
I live close to the state line between two states.
The liquor stores, marijuana dealers, and tattoo parlors have been open in these states for quite a while.

But churches were closed until recently. Why is that?

Walmart, Home Depot, and Safeway never closed down. The local grocer, local hardware store, and local clothier
all had to close down for months. Some are still closed.

In California it is illegal to sing in church. Churches can only allow 25% of total capacity.
If the fire marshall said your building could hold 800 people. Right now only 200 people are allowed in your church.
Why don't Walmart, Home Depot and Safeway have the same restrictions?

I personally know people who have died in the last 5 months. If I count all the people who know someone who died
I think it would be 40 or 50 people. None of them have died from Covid, not one.
Yet everyone has more fear of Covid than the things these people died of.

This isn't common sense. This is manipulation, plain and simple.

My company office is in North Portland Oregon. One of the most heavily rioted areas of the US.
I frequently see hundreds of these Antifa rioters packed in groups together. No space between them.
Yet that isn't required by the "social distancing" mandate.
 
Jesus called us sheep for a reason, and God loved David both because of his faith, and his warrior courage. And Jesus is the Lion of Judah, the root of Jesse. Most christians are wise to avoid bloodshed because they are not able to handle both violence when needed, and kindness and mercy for the most of the time. So most christians will continue to be the sheep of His pasture. But Jesus called me to be a warrior, both in proclaiming the truth, and in spiritual battles, and if need be against flesh and blood. But I would take no pleasure in the last one. I have only one sword, and need no other, but I keep that sword oiled and sharp for if I ever do need it.
 
Do, you refuse any of these because of the possibility that it may lead to the mark?

At this point, it not even about the mark entirely. It's simply blind obedience.

Be prepared to answer why you believe as you do, which to me means a personal testimony that none can take away from you,

My testimony is..

Acts 5:27; When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them,
Acts 5:28; saying, “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.”
Acts 5:29; But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
Acts 5:30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.

Not long ago, I posted a thread on TalkJesus about a "white woman" who worked with me at my last Job.
This white woman, looked exactly like a black man. Her name used to be Jerome before "she" started identifying as
a white woman. From time to time"she" identified as other races and sexes as well.
Some of us refused to call "her" by her new name. We were all called into Human relations for counseling.
We all had to take a class on tolerance, diversity and acceptance. Then we all had to apologize to this "woman".

A new employee joined our team one day. He asked why we were all willing to agree to a lie, in order to make
someone comfortable. Why make 12 people uncomfortable, in order to make one person comfortable?
Why be willing to lie for them? Why be willing to accept the lie? Why be willing to join in the lie with them?

I no longer work for that company. The company I work for now has similar policies (don't they all?)
But I am no longer in a situation that requires me to lie to keep my job. Yes.. lie.

My personal opinion is those of us who are accepting "the law of the land" in order to shut down churches
and worship (as well as many other things) including forms of many people's livelihood.
We are accepting the "lie". We are joining in with "the lie".

I believe Covid is real, I believe people have died from it, and likely more people will die from it.
But I don't believe the fear hype that surrounds it.

You want a personal testimony that none can take away, this is mine in this current time and situation.

I will go to church. I will sing, and I will praise the Lord.

(even it offends some people)
 
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There gets to be a point, when it really isn't common sense.

Wear a mask in a store, to touch a box that has already been touched by the vendor, the person who shipped it, and the stock boy
who put it on the shelf. Put it n a cart touched by hundreds of people, even if you wipe off the handle with disenfectant, what about the rest of the cart anyone has touched. But it it on the conveyor belt that has been touched by hundreds of people, so the check out clerk who has touched literally hundreds of these boxes already today can touch yours and put it in your bag. Then she'll take your credit card from you
after she has touched literally hundreds of other today and give it back to you.

Where is the common sense here?

Even the mask itself doesn't prevent anything. The virus is smaller than the holes in your mask. But even if it protected your mouth
(I rarely see people covering their nose) what about your eyes? Viruses can enter that way as well.

Where is the common sense here?

So then why are people doing it? Because of fear mongering.

In the US there are more than 300 million people. It's VERY VERY likely that 80 to 90% of the people here have already
contacted it in one form or another. But even if they haven't, only 170,000 have died from it. Out of 300 million?
That's less than 1/3rd of 1 %. Almost everyone, including the CDC agree those numbers are inflated, possibly even doubled.
You have better odds of dying from cancer, heart-disease or diabetes. The death rates for the swine flu, bird, and spanish-flu
were all MUCH higher than COVID. Yet everyone is pacnicking over COVID.

It sure looks and smells like fear mongering.

There's a chance a meteor could fall from the sky and hit you. There's a chance you could be in a car accident.
There's a chance you could trip and fall and break a leg. Should we quit driving, walking or going outside because there's
a small chance something dangerous might happen?

Some states and mandating you wear a mask outside, "all the time" even if no one is within a 1,000 feet of you.
where is the sense in this? People even wear them in the cars, when no one else is in the car with them.

I can go into a restaurant, (I have to wear my mask to go in and order) but once I've ordered,
I can remove my mask and eat in the same room with dozens of other people, at the same table were dozens of others have sat today, touching the same chairs touched by other people. The dishes were touched by the waitress, dishwasher and cook.
Not to mention my credit card once again, with either the waitress or the cashier.

This is common sense?

Rom 8:15; For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”
The answer to all your common sense questions is to take all the common sense guidance together. A mask won't protect you from transmission by touching a credit card that's been in contact with an infected person. But washing your hands thoroughly and frequently will.

800,000 deaths worldwide and no cure expected anytime soon. The first priority of any responsible government is to protect its citizens.
 
The first priority of any responsible government is to protect its citizens.

That's great, why aren't they protecting us from Antifa, rioting, going out of business, and protecting our right to worship?

Besides, I still answer to a higher government, when the Earthly governments conflicts.
 
That's great, why aren't they protecting us from Antifa, rioting, going out of business, and protecting our right to worship?

Besides, I still answer to a higher government, when the Earthly governments conflicts.
They should be taking all reasonable steps to protect you from these things. In some areas such as with lawful protest, governments need to find a balance between allowing people to make their voices heard and enabling others to go about their daily business.
 
The answer to all your common sense questions is to take all the common sense guidance together. A mask won't protect you from transmission by touching a credit card that's been in contact with an infected person. But washing your hands thoroughly and frequently will.

800,000 deaths worldwide and no cure expected anytime soon. The first priority of any responsible government is to protect its citizens.
There have been cures that work for nearly all occurances, but those in charge, dont want a cure, and they want a vaccine that will be forced upon people often against their will. The medical doctors that speak out about the cures get shut down from getting out the information, again, because they want a vaccine to be used, the world has blinded your eyes, just like the prince of this world wants.
 
They should be taking all reasonable steps to protect you from these things. In some areas such as with lawful protest, governments need to find a balance between allowing people to make their voices heard and enabling others to go about their daily business.
Its called peaceful protest and allowed for in our constitution, but the liberal mayors and governors want the chaos, and dont care about the violence and destruction of property, as long as it doesnt touch them personally.
 
There gets to be a point, when it really isn't common sense.

Wear a mask in a store, to touch a box that has already been touched by the vendor, the person who shipped it, and the stock boy
who put it on the shelf. Put it n a cart touched by hundreds of people, even if you wipe off the handle with disenfectant, what about the rest of the cart anyone has touched. But it it on the conveyor belt that has been touched by hundreds of people, so the check out clerk who has touched literally hundreds of these boxes already today can touch yours and put it in your bag. Then she'll take your credit card from you
after she has touched literally hundreds of other today and give it back to you.

Where is the common sense here?

Even the mask itself doesn't prevent anything. The virus is smaller than the holes in your mask. But even if it protected your mouth
(I rarely see people covering their nose) what about your eyes? Viruses can enter that way as well.

Where is the common sense here?

So then why are people doing it? Because of fear mongering.

In the US there are more than 300 million people. It's VERY VERY likely that 80 to 90% of the people here have already
contacted it in one form or another. But even if they haven't, only 170,000 have died from it. Out of 300 million?
That's less than 1/3rd of 1 %. Almost everyone, including the CDC agree those numbers are inflated, possibly even doubled.
You have better odds of dying from cancer, heart-disease or diabetes. The death rates for the swine flu, bird, and spanish-flu
were all MUCH higher than COVID. Yet everyone is pacnicking over COVID.

It sure looks and smells like fear mongering.

There's a chance a meteor could fall from the sky and hit you. There's a chance you could be in a car accident.
There's a chance you could trip and fall and break a leg. Should we quit driving, walking or going outside because there's
a small chance something dangerous might happen?

Some states and mandating you wear a mask outside, "all the time" even if no one is within a 1,000 feet of you.
where is the sense in this? People even wear them in the cars, when no one else is in the car with them.

I can go into a restaurant, (I have to wear my mask to go in and order) but once I've orderedI can remove my mask and eat in the same room with dozens of other people, at the same table were dozens of others have sat today, touching the same chairs touched by other people. The dishes were touched by the waitress, dishwasher and cook.
Not to mention my credit card once again, with either the waitress or the cashier.

This is common sense?

Rom 8:15; For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!”

BAC, bro do you not think about what you write when you're writing? I'm guessing that you're one of the fortunate majority who's not had to cope and come to terms with the premature death of one of the 170,000 or those left chronically ill by this disease. There just seems to be a lack of empathy or sensitivity towards them. Each one of them has a grieving and devastated family, even their funerals are curtailed.

It seems as though you're saying that that's a price worth paying, if it means I don't have to wear this pesky mask. Masks don't claim to protect you from infection so I accept that if someone infected coughs or sneezes near you it's likely that particles containing the virus will get through your mask, but it's not about you, it's about others. If you become infected and sneeze into your mask there will be no airborne infection of others. So if everyone's wearing a mask there'll be no airborne infection. Yes there'll still be infection through touch which is why gloves and hand washing is important.

If everyone follows the scientists' advice this virus is doomed. Ignore it and it'll increase at a rate of knots, killing more people, devastating families and causing massive damage to jobs and livelihoods.

In the USA you've had this virus for 4 months and it's wiped out 170,000 people and it's going to get considerably worse with the onset of winter. Other countries seem to have fared much better than others and generally it's those whose populations have kept to the Covid protocol.
 
There have been cures that work for nearly all occurances, but those in charge, dont want a cure, and they want a vaccine that will be forced upon people often against their will. The medical doctors that speak out about the cures get shut down from getting out the information, again, because they want a vaccine to be used, the world has blinded your eyes, just like the prince of this world wants.
What is the most effective cure?
 
At this point, it not even about the mark entirely. It's simply blind obedience.



My testimony is..

Acts 5:27; When they had brought them, they stood them before the Council. The high priest questioned them,
Acts 5:28; saying, “We gave you strict orders not to continue teaching in this name, and yet, you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching and intend to bring this man’s blood upon us.”
Acts 5:29; But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men.
Acts 5:30; The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom you had put to death by hanging Him on a cross.

Not long ago, I posted a thread on TalkJesus about a "white woman" who worked with me at my last Job.
This white woman, looked exactly like a black man. Her name used to be Jerome before "she" started identifying as
a white woman. From time to time"she" identified as other races and sexes as well.
Some of us refused to call "her" by her new name. We were all called into Human relations for counseling.
We all had to take a class on tolerance, diversity and acceptance. Then we all had to apologize to this "woman".

A new employee joined our team one day. He asked why we were all willing to agree to a lie, in order to make
someone comfortable. Why make 12 people uncomfortable, in order to make one person comfortable?
Why be willing to lie for them? Why be willing to accept the lie? Why be willing to join in the lie with them?

I no longer work for that company. The company I work for now has similar policies (don't they all?)
But I am no longer in a situation that requires me to lie to keep my job. Yes.. lie.

My personal opinion is those of us who are accepting "the law of the land" in order to shut down churches
and worship (as well as many other things) including forms of many people's livelihood.
We are accepting the "lie". We are joining in with "the lie".

I believe Covid is real, I believe people have died from it, and likely more people will die from it.
But I don't believe the fear hype that surrounds it.

You want a personal testimony that none can take away, this is mine in this current time and situation.

I will go to church. I will sing, and I will praise the Lord.

(even it offends some people)
Dear Brother,
When Scripture talks of testimony, it is clear what is being talked of. Not what happens in our day to day lives while we're in this world.

The testimony you speak of I know is not unique. I had a choice to make in my own job. They didn't like it that people would come to me to ask about Scripture. One Atheist, who just happened to be the Director of Human Resources, saw me in the hallway talking with a young man who had a question about Scripture. I of course talked with him. As I watched the Director go by, the Holy Spirit told me that I'd be hearing about this. I kept talking, and kept silent about what had happened. Two weeks later, my boss, who was the Director of Training, asked me into her office. Closing the door, which was different because of the male/female dynamics. The Spirit opened my eyes to what it was about, and gave me voice. As she went around her desk, and sat down, and was about to tell me why she had called me in. I stopped her, and began to speak. I let her know that she had been directed to talk to me about talking to people about the Bible, and that I would have to stop doing it. I then told her, that I could not stop, and if it cost me my job, then so be it. In fact, I told her she might as well fire me right then and there, because if anyone, anyone came to be seeking to know about my Jesus. I was going to take the time to try and help them to the best of my knowledge. The look on her face was of complete surprise. She called me a name, that I no longer remember, but attribute to her Catholic faith. She then just asked me to try to not be so obvious about it, and told me that I could leave her office, in the belief that she had done what was required of her.

What one should do, depends on the situation that one finds themselves in. No two situations are the same, and so as the Holy Spirit moves you, is how one should handle the situation. Allow oneself to be guided by righteousness of God, and not by the whims of the world. Costly as it may be. However, in this case, meaning the use of the mask. I don't see it as duplicitous in using the mask to make others comfortable, so that their fears are assuaged. Knowing that in Christ we fear only God, and not man for what they can do to us. Just yesterday I went shopping at Walmart, a big warehouse of a store, when I saw a brother in Christ that I hadn't seen for months since our Church had been cloistered/restricted by the state. He had health conditions, as do I, that place us in the high risk category, so we don't physically attend, and watch the services online. Wearing our masks, we made eye contact, and since we're a touchy feely kind of church and Brothers in Christ. We hugged where everyone could see!!!!! Yikes the horror of looks/thoughts that must have gone through the minds of some folks!!!! Lucky he's a big black man, so I do believe if there were thoughts of saying something, his size probably quelled anyone's actions in that direction! LOL For both of us it was great joy!! Nothing like family seeing each other after a time of separation.

So, the state can place restrictions on people, but it really is up to each individual person to make their own determination if they are to follow those policies. I don't say law, because they really are not laws, though they do still have consequences attached to them if one fails to follow them. One must decide if the issue in question is contrary to the Word of God, or a man made inconvenience that has probably more to do with politics, then actual health concerns. The power of prayer, and listening closely to what the Spirit is trying to tell you is the best guide one can go by, especially when Scripturally could have you go either way. Not that I believe Scripture is that way, but man can rationalize just about anything, even when Scripture is clear cut about the issue!!! Which I'm sure after all these years at Talk Jesus you're well aware of!! :-)

Look at yours, when the individual wanting to self identify as something that they clearly are not, and the job going along with it. To me I don't have an issue, with a person wanting to be called this or that. They might have at one time been called Bob, but now want to be called Beatrice. Okay by me, because name changes occur all the time. However, if its just a day to day whim sort of thing and not actually legally done, then I probably won't. The job can try to force one to bend to its will, but that is the choice one must make in the knowledge that our God is in control! I might even have a time with them, by asking them to call me "Jesus Christ Saves"!!! Just to hear them calling me by that, might almost be worth the pain of the battle. My humor getting the best of me Brother, not making light of the situation you found yourself in!!! So, If the name change is not legally done, then there's not much the job can do, unless they want to incur litigation.

With all that being said, I don't mind putting up with the inconvenience of wearing a mask. I definitely won't drive with one on, even if they tell me that I have to! Some common sense does go into what one should or should not go along with.

This has been enjoyable brother, and sorry for the long post. I am still curious though. Did you ever call apologize?

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
 
12 Experts Questioning the Coronavirus Panic from the globalresearch.

1) Dr Sucharit Bhakdi is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.

What he says:

"We are afraid that 1 million infections with the new virus will lead to 30 deaths per day over the next 100 days. But we do not realise that 20, 30, 40 or 100 patients positive for normal coronaviruses are already dying every day.

[The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous […] The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people. The consequences on medical care are profound. Already services to patients in need are reduced, operations cancelled, practices empty, hospital personnel dwindling. All this will impact profoundly on our whole society. All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook."


2) Dr Wolfgang Wodarg is a German physician specialising in Pulmonology, politician and former chairman of the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe. In 2009 he called for an inquiry into alleged conflicts of interest surrounding the EU response to the Swine Flu pandemic.

What he says:

"Politicians are being courted by scientists…scientists who want to be important to get money for their institutions. Scientists who just swim along in the mainstream and want their part of it […] And what is missing right now is a rational way of looking at things. We should be asking questions like “How did you find out this virus was dangerous?”, “How was it before?”, “Didn’t we have the same thing last year?”, “Is it even something new?” That’s missing."


3) Dr Joel Kettner professor of Community Health Sciences and Surgery at Manitoba University, former Chief Public Health Officer for Manitoba province and Medical Director of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases.

What he says:

"I have never seen anything like this, anything anywhere near like this. I’m not talking about the pandemic, because I’ve seen 30 of them, one every year. It is called influenza. And other respiratory illness viruses, we don’t always know what they are. But I’ve never seen this reaction, and I’m trying to understand why."

"I worry about the message to the public, about the fear of coming into contact with people, being in the same space as people, shaking their hands, having meetings with people. I worry about many, many consequences related to that."

"In Hubei, in the province of Hubei, where there has been the most cases and deaths by far, the actual number of cases reported is 1 per 1000 people and the actual rate of deaths reported is 1 per 20,000. So maybe that would help to put things into perspective."


4) Dr John Ioannidis Professor of Medicine, of Health Research and Policy and of Biomedical Data Science, at Stanford University School of Medicine and a Professor of Statistics at Stanford University School of Humanities and Sciences. He is director of the Stanford Prevention Research Center, and co-director of the Meta-Research Innovation Center at Stanford (METRICS).

He is also the editor-in-chief of the European Journal of Clinical Investigation. He was chairman at the Department of Hygiene and Epidemiology, University of Ioannina School of Medicine as well as adjunct professor at Tufts University School of Medicine.

As a physician, scientist and author he has made contributions to evidence-based medicine, epidemiology, data science and clinical research. In addition, he pioneered the field of meta-research. He has shown that much of the published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence.

What he says:


Patients who have been tested for SARS-CoV-2 are disproportionately those with severe symptoms and bad outcomes. As most health systems have limited testing capacity, selection bias may even worsen in the near future.

The one situation where an entire, closed population was tested was the Diamond Princess cruise ship and its quarantine passengers. The case fatality rate there was 1.0%, but this was a largely elderly population, in which the death rate from Covid-19 is much higher.

Could the Covid-19 case fatality rate be that low? No, some say, pointing to the high rate in elderly people. However, even some so-called mild or common-cold-type coronaviruses that have been known for decades can have case fatality rates as high as 8% when they infect elderly people in nursing homes.

If we had not known about a new virus out there, and had not checked individuals with PCR tests, the number of total deaths due to “influenza-like illness” would not seem unusual this year. At most, we might have casually noted that flu this season seems to be a bit worse than average.

– “A fiasco in the making? As the coronavirus pandemic takes hold, we are making decisions without reliable data”, Stat News, 17th March 2

5) Dr Yoram Lass is an Israeli physician, politician and former Director General of the Health Ministry. He also worked as Associate Dean of the Tel Aviv University Medical School and during the 1980s presented the science-based television show Tatzpit.

What he says:

Italy is known for its enormous morbidity in respiratory problems, more than three times any other European country. In the US about 40,000 people die in a regular flu season and so far 40-50 people have died of the coronavirus, most of them in a nursing home in Kirkland, Washington.

In every country, more people die from regular flu compared with those who die from the coronavirus.

…there is a very good example that we all forget: the swine flu in 2009. That was a virus that reached the world from Mexico and until today there is no vaccination against it. But what? At that time there was no Facebook or there maybe was but it was still in its infancy. The coronavirus, in contrast, is a virus with public relations.

Whoever thinks that governments end viruses is wrong.

– Interview in Globes, March 22nd 2020


6) Dr Pietro Vernazza is a Swiss physician specialising Infectious Diseases at the Cantonal Hospital St. Gallen and Professor of Health Policy.

What he says:


We have reliable figures from Italy and a work by epidemiologists, which has been published in the renowned science journal ‹Science›, which examined the spread in China. This makes it clear that around 85 percent of all infections have occurred without anyone noticing the infection. 90 percent of the deceased patients are verifiably over 70 years old, 50 percent over 80 years.

In Italy, one in ten people diagnosed die, according to the findings of the Science publication, that is statistically one of every 1,000 people infected. Each individual case is tragic, but often – similar to the flu season – it affects people who are at the end of their lives.

If we close the schools, we will prevent the children from quickly becoming immune.

We should better integrate the scientific facts into the political decisions.

– Interview in St. Galler Tagblatt, 22nd March 2020

7) Frank Ulrich Montgomery is German radiologist, former President of the German Medical Association and Deputy Chairman of the World Medical Association.

What he says:


I’m not a fan of lockdown. Anyone who imposes something like this must also say when and how to pick it up again. Since we have to assume that the virus will be with us for a long time, I wonder when we will return to normal? You can’t keep schools and daycare centers closed until the end of the year. Because it will take at least that long until we have a vaccine. Italy has imposed a lockdown and has the opposite effect. They quickly reached their capacity limits, but did not slow down the virus spread within the lockdown.

– Interview in General Anzeiger, 18th March 2020


8) Prof. Hendrik Streeck is a German HIV researcher, epidemiologist and clinical trialist. He is professor of virology, and the director of the Institute of Virology and HIV Research, at Bonn University.

What he says:


The new pathogen is not that dangerous, it is even less dangerous than Sars-1. The special thing is that Sars-CoV-2 replicates in the upper throat area and is therefore much more infectious because the virus jumps from throat to throat, so to speak. But that is also an advantage: Because Sars-1 replicates in the deep lungs, it is not so infectious, but it definitely gets on the lungs, which makes it more dangerous.

You also have to take into account that the Sars-CoV-2 deaths in Germany were exclusively old people. In Heinsberg, for example, a 78-year-old man with previous illnesses died of heart failure, and that without Sars-2 lung involvement. Since he was infected, he naturally appears in the Covid 19 statistics. But the question is whether he would not have died anyway, even without Sars-2.

– Interview in Frankfurter Allgemeine, 16th March 2020

9 ) Dr Yanis Roussel et. al. – A team of researchers from the Institut Hospitalo-universitaire Méditerranée Infection, Marseille and the Institut de Recherche pour le Développement, Assistance Publique-Hôpitaux de Marseille, conducting a peer-reviewed study on Coronavirus mortality for the government of France under the ‘Investments for the Future’ programme.

What they say:


The problem of SARS-CoV-2 is probably overestimated, as 2.6 million people die of respiratory infections each year compared with less than 4000 deaths for SARS-CoV-2 at the time of writing.

This study compared the mortality rate of SARS-CoV-2 in OECD countries (1.3%) with the mortality rate of common coronaviruses identified in AP-HM patients (0.8%) from 1 January 2013 to 2 March 2020. Chi-squared test was performed, and the P-value was 0.11 (not significant).

…it should be noted that systematic studies of other coronaviruses (but not yet for SARS-CoV-2) have found that the percentage of asymptomatic carriers is equal to or even higher than the percentage of symptomatic patients. The same data for SARS-CoV-2 may soon be available, which will further reduce the relative risk associated with this specific pathology.

– “SARS-CoV-2: fear versus data”, International Journal of Antimicrobial Agents, 19th March 2020

10) Dr. David Katz is an American physician and founding director of the Yale University Prevention Research Center

What he says:


I am deeply concerned that the social, economic and public health consequences of this near-total meltdown of normal life — schools and businesses closed, gatherings banned — will be long-lasting and calamitous, possibly graver than the direct toll of the virus itself. The stock market will bounce back in time, but many businesses never will. The unemployment, impoverishment and despair likely to result will be public health scourges of the first order.

– “Is Our Fight Against Coronavirus Worse Than the Disease?”, New York Times 20th March 2020

11) Michael T. Osterholm is regents professor and director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy at the University of Minnesota.

What he says:


Consider the effect of shutting down offices, schools, transportation systems, restaurants, hotels, stores, theaters, concert halls, sporting events and other venues indefinitely and leaving all of their workers unemployed and on the public dole. The likely result would be not just a depression but a complete economic breakdown, with countless permanently lost jobs, long before a vaccine is ready or natural immunity takes hold.

[T]he best alternative will probably entail letting those at low risk for serious disease continue to work, keep business and manufacturing operating, and “run” society, while at the same time advising higher-risk individuals to protect themselves through physical distancing and ramping up our health-care capacity as aggressively as possible. With this battle plan, we could gradually build up immunity without destroying the financial structure on which our lives are based.

– “Facing covid-19 reality: A national lockdown is no cure”, Washington Post 21st March 2020

12) Dr Peter Goetzsche is Professor of Clinical Research Design and Analysis at the University of Copenhagen and founder of the Cochrane Medical Collaboration. He has written several books on corruption in the field of medicine and the power of big pharmaceutical companies.

What he says:


Our main problem is that no one will ever get in trouble for measures that are too draconian. They will only get in trouble if they do too little. So, our politicians and those working with public health do much more than they should do.

No such draconian measures were applied during the 2009 influenza pandemic, and they obviously cannot be applied every winter, which is all year round, as it is always winter somewhere. We cannot close down the whole world permanently.

Should it turn out that the epidemic wanes before long, there will be a queue of people wanting to take credit for this. And we can be damned sure draconian measures will be applied again next time. But remember the joke about tigers. “Why do you blow the horn?” “To keep the tigers away.” “But there are no tigers here.” “There you see!”

– “Corona: an epidemic of mass panic”, blog post on Deadly Medicines 21st March 2020
 
What is the most effective cure?
You would have to search youtube and look for the videos if they are not already banned and decide for yourself. I have seen news articles of at least 3 effective cures that have been pulled from media sources. And thats just the ones I seen, its deliberate censoring of any news that would keep a vaccine as being the only treatment available.
 
This thread is about masks.
If I may be allowed to diverge here just a little.

It seems we have some who "trust the government, to do what's best for us". And others who do not.
There is a lot of speculation about vaccines, the mark, and secret government orders. Perhaps they are true, I don't know. I doubt if anyone does for sure.

Abortion is allowed by law. People in government power made these laws.
They've had decades to change these laws, but they haven't.

Vaccines have been found that many medical experts say work, the government prevents people from using them.
Even if didn't have the virus and you took these medicines, they would not hurt you. There is no risk, but we are not allowed to take them.

Antifa, BLM and other radical groups are allowed vandalize, destroy and even kill people. Yet politicians are supporting these groups.

I don't need anyone to spin these things, I see them right on public access television.

The mayors and governors who keep supporting and voting for these things do not care about people or lives.
 
This thread is about masks.
If I may be allowed to diverge here just a little.

It seems we have some who "trust the government, to do what's best for us". And others who do not.
There is a lot of speculation about vaccines, the mark, and secret government orders. Perhaps they are true, I don't know. I doubt if anyone does for sure.

Abortion is allowed by law. People in government power made these laws.
They've had decades to change these laws, but they haven't.

Vaccines have been found that many medical experts say work, the government prevents people from using them.
Even if didn't have the virus and you took these medicines, they would not hurt you. There is no risk, but we are not allowed to take them.

Antifa, BLM and other radical groups are allowed vandalize, destroy and even kill people. Yet politicians are supporting these groups.

I don't need anyone to spin these things, I see them right on public access television.

The mayors and governors who keep supporting and voting for these things do not care about people or lives.
There is no vaccine for coronavirus that has completed safety tests.

Antifa has been linked with no deaths. BLM has been linked with no deaths.

Most who support these things care deeply about people and lives.
 
Most who support these things care deeply about people and lives.


tell that to my freind who was attacked by them, he see them every night in our streets, and stands up for the God and spreads the good news

 
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