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Once saved can we lose our salvation??

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Of course He not in hell now! The LORD went to hell and freed the captives! sure David was born -again then!
His body has rotten away! but david was born again i am sure! but his old body is still here

Act 13:36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

Mat 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
Mat 27:53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
Joh 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
 
Personally, I don't agree with the "once saved, always saved" idea. If we can't lose our salvation, what does backsliding mean? Yes, we are saved by grace and not by anything we do, we can't save ourselves. We can turn our back on God and we can reject Him and go our own way. Yes, we can believe in Him and be saved but if we love Him, will we not live His way? Anyone can say, "yes, I believe Jesus is Lord" - does that mean they are saved? Can they then go on living their own way and ignore God and still be saved? What about the devil? He knows and believes Jesus is Lord, and trembles - does that mean he is saved?

We all have a problem with sin, and there are going to be times when we struggle to master it, but that does not make it okay, sin is sin. Our God though, is a patient, merciful, gracious God Who does not treat us like we deserve. He can give us strength to try and master our sins, He helps us live His way, and thankfully, He forgives us when we fail. He is still our loving Father, whether we please Him or not. But if we love Him, will we not strive to become more like Him?
 
I do not believe in "once saved, always saved". I believe that David lost his salvation when he committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed. I believe Peter lost his salvation when he denied Christ 3 times.

But I also believe that if a person does lose their salvation, they can come back to Christ and be saved again. I believe we are "converted" or "adopted" into God's family when we first accept Christ, but if we ourselves fall away or sin our salvation away, then we lose it, but Jesus taught many times that God is merciful and forgiving, and if we come back to Him, He will not turn us away.

Read the story of the prodigal son-he was "saved" and gave up everything, but when he wanted to come back, his father opened his arms and welcomed him back again! Same with our Father God.

Our salvation depends on whether we are believing and following Jesus at the time of our death. We are not saved until Judgment Day....at this point, we are converted, and on our way to being saved IF we continue in the faith and not fall away.....but we are not actually saved till the end.

Im am sorry, I truly mean no disrespect but, living in this type of belief is no living at all.

God is in us and he said he would never leave.
The Bible says that a believer is sealed.
God promises to complete his work in us.
When you are born there is no such thing as un-born.

In 1 Cor 13, Paul says that when the imperfection leaves, that is our death. The perfection comes, that is in sprit.

He goes further to say that: we will know fully, even as we are known, that is we will finally know God as he knows us.

God is in you and you are sealed to eternity. Your forgiveness is complete and your salvation is at hand now. If God is in you and when you die, where do you think he goes?

“that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 1:6)

Ephesians 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God in you is your salvation and he is with you every step of the way!
 
Im am sorry, I truly mean no disrespect but, living in this type of belief is no living at all.

God is in us and he said he would never leave.
The Bible says that a believer is sealed.
God promises to complete his work in us.
When you are born there is no such thing as un-born.

In 1 Cor 13, Paul says that when the imperfection leaves, that is our death. The perfection comes, that is in sprit.

He goes further to say that: we will know fully, even as we are known, that is we will finally know God as he knows us.

God is in you and you are sealed to eternity. Your forgiveness is complete and your salvation is at hand now. If God is in you and when you die, where do you think he goes?

“that He who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.” (Philippians 1:6)

Ephesians 4:30
30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

God in you is your salvation and he is with you every step of the way!

...and with contradicting views as such, i continue to remain confused ???
 
Dear RJ.

I wish what you said was true, oh how I wish.

Alas, it is not true. You neglected Paul's revelation regarding
living by the spirit and not by the flesh.

Please read the following quote:

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Do not be deceived, a Christian must conform to the doctrine of
Godliness RJ. A Christian cannot live in the flesh and escape God's
judgement.
 
There is a great deal of misunderstanding when it comes to salvation, particularly with regards to the Israel of the OT. Many claim that Israel was saved by being obedient to the law. How was Israel saved? By works? No. By the law? No. Think back to the story of the Passover. Through Moses, God had told Pharaoh that the first born of every creature, including his own, would die because he had refused to believe God and obey. The nation of Israel however would be saved this plague, but only if they met certain conditions. Their salvation did not just involve the lives of their children, but also their departure from Egypt, and not only that, but alsoEx 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
included their entrance into the promised land. So also with us. Our salvation does not simply save us from sin and its condemnation. It also includes our entrance into heaven at the second coming after we are raised from the dead. So again, how was Israel saved?
They were saved by the blood of the Passover Lamb. In order to be saved by that blood they had to have faith in God's word that:
a. There was a definite threat of death.

Ex 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

b. That the application of the blood of the Lamb would indeed protect them.

1 Corinthians 5:7" For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:".


Now, as I said, it didn't end there. Their lives may have been spared, but they were still in Egypt. They were not yet saved. It was after they were delivered from Egypt that God showed them His law. They could not bypass Sinai. "This is how you now must live" God said. Obey Me and live, and I will lead you to the promised land. What happened to those who did not obey? They fell in the wilderness. "But they had the blood of the Lamb to cover them" some may say. That was not enough was it.

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.


For Israel, disobedience nullified the blood and they entered not into God's promises. So also will it be for us.
These things were written for our example,that we may learn from them.
Heb 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

Now that we are saved also by the blood of the Passover Lamb let us not bypass Sinai or think that we can ignore God's requirements. Know assuredly that those who do, though they may claim salvation, will not enter in to the promised land.
 
I know some people here and I disagree GREATLY!! LOL on this issue!! So instead of making a big stink,let me first say salvation is God's gift to us,I am sure no one will have a problem with this statement. hehe Now the gift we recieve from our Jesus is for us to keep always!!

I think so far so good.Here comes the tough part. But like any gift we receive,we can also give away. Esau sold his birthright( Hebrews 12:16-17!) Salvation is our birthright, it is ours to keep, or sell. For what part of the body do we have that we cannot cut off from us? We would not ever wish to,but who apart from God Almighty can stop us from doing so?

Hence why we stay humble in our Jesus Philippians 2:12-13, 2 cor 13:5 neither of these scriptures would ever be in the Word of God,if we did not have need of them.We have need of them,because we are to look at ourselves daily, to make sure we stay in the faith.So how do we make sure we are saved??

Jesus spoke to us of this,Matt 7:17-27 We truly believe in Christ, by doing for him. Saying I am saved,means we are to show we are saved to others,by this,all who see us know who we are in our Blessed Jesus. That is salvation unto me,freely given,and kept by showing. Love hides not, for it is the nature of Jesus,and US in him. blessing to you.
 
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once saved always saved?

After reading all these posts, perhaps those who are sure you can be lost again, or those who believe once saved always saved, I doubt but only a few will change their mind.

I thought about it and came to see how the Bible relates to this in the Old Testament.

When Moses told to put the blood of the lamb on the door posts of the place in which they lives, I think it could have been something like this.

Some put the blood on and went to sleep totally confident and never lost a winks sleep.

Some put the blood on and had real doubts the death angel would see the blood, and would enter and the first born would die. So worried they stated up all night in doubt and worry. Totally shocked that in the morning the death angel did pass over their abode.

Personally I have written in this subject here and believe that genuine born again believers are secure in the salvation and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. Genuine is a key point. I do not for one minute think that a person who said a prsyer when they were a child, and did NOTHING as a teenager, and adult, is saved. That is a huge difference, and that is not salvation, there is not a slightest hint of a changed life.

Faith that falters, had a flaw in it at the start.:handshake:
 
I know some people here and I disagree GREATLY!! LOL on this issue!! So instead of making a big stink,let me first say salvation is God's gift to us,I am sure no one will have a problem with this statement. hehe Now the gift we recieve from our Jesus is for us to keep always!!

I think so far so good.Here comes the tough part. But like any gift we receive,we can also give away. Esau sold his birthright( Hebrews 12:16-17!) Salvation is our birthright, it is ours to keep, or sell. For what part of the body do we have that we cannot cut off from us? We would not ever wish to,but who apart from God Almighty can stop us from doing so?

Hence why we stay humble in our Jesus Philippians 2:12-13, 2 cor 13:5 neither of these scriptures would ever be in the Word of God,if we did not have need of them.We have need of them,because we are to look at ourselves daily, to make sure we stay in the faith.So how do we make sure we are saved??

Jesus spoke to us of this,Matt 7:17-27 We truly believe in Christ, by doing for him. Saying I am saved,means we are to show we are saved to others,by this,all who see us know who we are in our Blessed Jesus. That is salvation unto me,freely given,and kept by showing. Love hides not, for it is the nature of Jesus,and US in him. blessing to you.

I respond with all love and respect and in the spirit "that we can as brothers agree to disagree", no terms like arguing allowed...lol!.
Also, let me make this perfectly clear, at no time do I even remotely insinuate the lack of a mutal love for the Lord and salvation.

This might be a little confusing for some newbies but, I think a common thread with our disagreement here is weither we are to live partially or comletely out of the confines of the Old Covenant and legalism. Keep in mind that God said that he totally abolished the old for the new!

With that in mind, you make a theological stance, of which I have a differing view and here it is:

I know some people here and I disagree GREATLY!! LOL on this issue!! So instead of making a big stink,let me first say salvation is God's gift to us,I am sure no one will have a problem with this statement. hehe Now the gift we recieve from our Jesus is for us to keep always!!
I agree its a gift but I see no where that God is an "Indian-Giver". Also, and I think you will agree, that an imporatnt part of this gift is that he sets up house inside us and, I see nothing where he says that he will remove himself. No offense, I think it is a bit prideful to think you can force him out, when he said that he would never leave you.

One caveat about the "Indian-Giver" comment, I appologive if that offends any of my blood brothers because I am 1/4 American Black Foot.

I think so far so good.Here comes the tough part. But like any gift we receive,we can also give away. Esau sold his birthright( Hebrews 12:16-17!) Salvation is our birthright, it is ours to keep, or sell. For what part of the body do we have that we cannot cut off from us? We would not ever wish to,but who apart from God Almighty can stop us from doing so?

Hebrews 12:16-17
16 "See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. 17 Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done."
Esua gave up his inheritance from his earthly father Issac. This was not an actual confrontation with God but only symbolic of total rejection or apostasy of God. This was an Old Covenant dispute between a father and not only his son but, his eldest. According to Old Testament vaules this would have been regarded as an afront to God and an act near apostasy.

The writer of Hebrews was using strong lanuage to the Jews of the day and a warning against similar "falling away" to apostasy with regards to God. Again, this was the Old Testament and Esau did not have the spirit of God in him as we do....he would still be under the legalistic law of the Day of Attonement.

As firstborn Esau had a birthright to a double share of inheritance, but he sold this birthright to Jacob for a bowl of stew. Esau was a skillful hunter and Isaac's favorite son. When Isaac was near death he asked Esau to bring him a meal of wild game and then Isaac would bless him. While Esau hunted, Jacob disguised himself as Esau, brought food, and received a blessing. Esau was angry and Jacob departed to live with his uncle Laban. When Jacob returned, many years later, the two brothers were reconciled.

You will notice that later on Esua reconcilled himself with his brother. The logic of that time was that Esau atoned himself and would have been back in God's grace.

Hence why we stay humble in our Jesus Philippians 2:12-13, 2 cor 13:5 neither of these scriptures would ever be in the Word of God,if we did not have need of them.We have need of them,because we are to look at ourselves daily, to make sure we stay in the faith.So how do we make sure we are saved??
The only thing I say about this is what does the "we" mean? We must make sure that we do what? Anything you could possibly do would be liken to your on works and, that is a legalistic ( law of doing) and not the law of grace which takes us completly out of the equation.
That does not mean that we have a right to sin with out regret and apart from God. We don't want to in the first place and, on the contrary, he is right there convicting and chasting us to improve.


Jesus spoke to us of this,Matt 7:17-27 We truly believe in Christ, by doing for him. Saying I am saved,means we are to show we are saved to others,by this,all who see us know who we are in our Blessed Jesus.
No respectfully, there is the we again. You don't do anything but allow God to show himself through you; his fruits and his light .

I will just comment of verse 17-19:

17 Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.

The above verse has nothing to do a saved person doing what is is necessary in order to not fall away. These verses simple describe the difference between a save person (good tree) and an usaved person ( bad tree). Nor is there anything here that indicates a good tree can go bad; on the contrary: it says that a good tree can not bear bad fruit and a bad tree is thrown into the fire....the fire is clearly regarding an unsaved person.

That is salvation unto me,freely given,and kept by showing. Love hides not, for it is the nature of Jesus,and US in him. blessing to you.



One last though on a saved person going in and out of salvation at will:
  • God does not say anything about you being predestined but you can be unpredestined.
  • God says nothing about you being sealed but, on the other hand, he would unseal you
  • God says nothing about you being "Born Again" but, on the other hand can be unborn.
  • God says that he has blessed us in the heavenly realms, he says no where that he will un-bless us in the heavenly realms.
  • God says many times that you are blameless; I see no where he says you are to be blamed.
My understanding of God's grace is that as a person who is Christian, you are a child of God and due all the inheritence of Jesus Christ and that inludes the truth that will set you free; to be otherwise, is to say that person was never saved in the first place.

I believe your are saved man and are righteous as God has told you but, we don't have to agree other issues. I hope you feel the same.


God Bless
 
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DEAR LORD!!! LOL I taught I sure could get the first part through but NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!LOL So if I were to give you a gift you have to take it? You have no choice in the Matter? It is not from pride I speak from,I was a little surprised you stated it was,as you know me better then that!

I never saw train tracks in believing myself. Adam was created, he made a choice,the devil was created perfect as well,he made a choice,what God gives is life eternal I agree!!! Providing!!!!!! WE his creation KEEP IT!! It is not the Lord who takes away,but we sure can!

When Christmas comes, and you receive gifts ,do you have to keep them?? Or do you have a choice, to return them?? HUMMM??? LOL If you were right there would be no goats!! only sheep!! Matt 25:31-46 These spoken of here all believe they are going to heaven,this is not talking at all about unbelievers. Please look. Jesus did not want robots,he wanted women and men to make a choice to be on his side.If a person can have no other God's before them, why the commandment not to?( exodus 20:3 CHOICE!! YOU shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain,but many believers have!! CHOICE!! No pride!! CHOICE! why?? because my good brother in Christ!! FREEDOM!!!! Gal 5:13-15 So if what you are saying I would believe,I would not have any freedom in my Lord.But I do. And so does each and everyone of us in him. Blessing always to you RJ!! At least we have fun in this!! LOL
 
DEAR LORD!!! LOL I taught I sure could get the first part through but NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!LOL So if I were to give you a gift you have to take it? You have no choice in the Matter? It is not from pride I speak from,I was a little surprised you stated it was,as you know me better then that!

I never saw train tracks in believing myself. Adam was created, he made a choice,the devil was created perfect as well,he made a choice,what God gives is life eternal I agree!!! Providing!!!!!! WE his creation KEEP IT!! It is not the Lord who takes away,but we sure can!

When Christmas comes, and you receive gifts ,do you have to keep them?? Or do you have a choice, to return them?? HUMMM??? LOL If you were right there would be no goats!! only sheep!! Matt 25:31-46 These spoken of here all believe they are going to heaven,this is not talking at all about unbelievers. Please look. Jesus did not want robots,he wanted women and men to make a choice to be on his side.If a person can have no other God's before them, why the commandment not to?( exodus 20:3 CHOICE!! YOU shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain,but many believers have!! CHOICE!! No pride!! CHOICE! why?? because my good brother in Christ!! FREEDOM!!!! Gal 5:13-15 So if what you are saying I would believe,I would not have any freedom in my Lord.But I do. And so does each and everyone of us in him. Blessing always to you RJ!! At least we have fun in this!! LOL

DEAR LORD!!! LOL I taught I sure could get the first part through but NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!LOL
Quite honestly brother, with no shouting, I am sorry you seem to be so agitated with me, after all I thought this was an open forum?
So if I were to give you a gift you have to take it? You have no choice in the Matter?
No you can leave it on the table, refuse it and go unsaved. But no where in God's word do I see that there is any process involving taking it off the table....putting it back on the table.....taking it off the tables...ect.. I see it fruitless to compare a gift between man and a gift from the Almighty!

How many times can you crucifiy Jessus I believe Hebrews 6 talks about?
It is not from pride I speak from,I was a little surprised you stated it was,as you know me better then that!
Nope, its not insulting your pride that I was after but, merely that it is pridefull to think you can or must do what God has already provided for you.

I never saw train tracks in believing myself. Adam was created, he made a choice,the devil was created perfect as well,he made a choice,what God gives is life eternal I agree!!! Providing!!!!!! WE his creation KEEP IT!! It is not the Lord who takes away,but we sure can!
Again, from the get go, because Hebrew 6 was involved in our many discussions, I am talking about once truly saved and then turing you back on God to all out apostasy....the rejection of the holy spirit. Hebrews 6 was about apostasy.
If you think that a man can go in and out...saved...then apostasy....saved....apostasy..then I would seriously have to consider if that man was ever saved in the first place

When Christmas comes, and you receive gifts ,do you have to keep them?? Or do you have a choice, to return them?? HUMMM??? LOL If you were right there would be no goats!! only sheep!! Matt 25:31-46 These spoken of here all believe they are going to heaven,this is not talking at all about unbelievers.
OH, there are a many a Christians in this world are that in name only, you know that as well as I do! And again, we disagree...Matthew 25: 31-46 is all bout non-believers and how God seperates them away from the believers. The analogy of separating the goats from the sheep is the same with tares and weeds and the wheat from the chaff, they are all about judgement. I don't see where this has much to do with our discusion nor, do I see your christmas gift analogy but a weak comparison to the gift of God.
Please look. Jesus did not want robots,he wanted women and men to make a choice to be on his side.If a person can have no other God's before them, why the commandment not to?( exodus 20:3 CHOICE!! YOU shall not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain,but many believers have!! CHOICE!! No pride!! CHOICE! why?? because my good brother in Christ!! FREEDOM!!!! Gal 5:13-15 So if what you are saying I would believe,I would not have any freedom in my Lord.
Ironically, it is I who say that from your stance, it is you who do not live fully under grace and the freedom that Jesus, in fact, meant when he said his truth will set you free.
But I do. And so does each and everyone of us in him. Blessing always to you RJ!! At least we have fun in this!! LOL

Yes, it is certainly nothing to get upset with, it's not like neither of us reject Christ or say he is not our savior. I will always maintain that it is impossible for you to fall into apostasy....you are chosen and sealed and, you could never do that!

And I will leave you with this:

Romans 6:20
20 When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. This is you before being saved.

Corinthians 7:22

22 For the one who was a slave when called to faith in the Lord is the Lord’s freed person; similarly, the one who was free when called is Christ’s slave

We were bought at a price and belong to God!




 
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Peace be unto you

I am going to answer this question with scripture. Whatever you walk away believing is your choice. You should always seek answers to your questions from the Bible, and never from another person. People can mislead you. If all that you are looking for is reassurance of what you have already decided to believe, then you'll get plenty of that—but that doesn't make it true.


Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

I John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

I Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Will God ever forsake you?

Deuteronomy 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Deuteronomy 31:8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

He told them that He wouldn't.

Deuteronomy 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a ******* after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Deuteronomy 31:17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

Joshua 24:20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

I Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

I Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.

II Chronicles 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Psalm 27:9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

Psalm 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.

A few more verses to think on:

I Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. ( save thyself? shouldn't Timothy have already been saved? )

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

We've all heard this story:

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Why didn't Jesus just tell this man something like, "If you'll just wait for a little bit longer, all that you'll have to do is 'believe' and you'll receive eternal life?" Why did it seem like Jesus was asking the man to "work" for salvation?

Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Luke 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Was this woman "saved" at this point?

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Was he "saved" at this point? Had this man turned to go home and fell off a cliff and died, would he have gone to Hell because Jesus hadn't died on the cross yet?

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

"We" is Peter and the Jews that are in Christ, and the word 'shall' is future tense.

Jude 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

What's Jude's purpose in reminding us about this?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The above verse is quoted often but the following two never seem to follow it.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Galatians 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. ( No big deal to someone who has been saved though, right? )

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Again, these verses could not be referring to the genuinely saved, right? Who has a part in the book of life and the holy city? The believer or the unbeliever?

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: ( "deeds" and not "faith" )

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ( "doeth evil" and not "is an unbeliever" )

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 3:20 is commonly quoted, but Romans 2:13 is never.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The following are an interesting set of verses:

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: ( standest by faith has to be referring to a believer, right? )

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. ( who shalt be cut off? )

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

And then a few more:

I Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

I Thessalonians 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Take care,
Read and Pray often






 
The True question is ? What is Salvation ?

the answer is a New Spirit .made after the Pattern JESUS CHRIST!
A Spirit that cannot sin !
It very simple!
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.


1Jn 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


1Co 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.



Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.



Has nothing to do with our flesh body


Rom 8:10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.




1Co 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
 
Fantastic post sticks. Great scriptures.

I thought you showed very clearly through the scripture that salvation is a process. A process that continues until (and perhaps even beyond) our physical deaths. Being saved is not something that happens in one moment of our lives and then it's over. Getting saved is making the connection with Jesus. Staying saved is keeping that connection and growing closer to Him.

Great spiritual food here. Praise God.
 
Dear stickz.

You have done some research on this topic stickz.

Very well presented, impressive.

Here are some others:

Romans 8:13
For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Hebrews 12:14
Pursue peace with all people and holiness without which
no one will see God.
 
Peace be unto you

I am going to answer this question with scripture. Whatever you walk away believing is your choice. You should always seek answers to your questions from the Bible, and never from another person. People can mislead you. If all that you are looking for is reassurance of what you have already decided to believe, then you'll get plenty of that—but that doesn't make it true.


Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Ephesians 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

Ephesians 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Ephesians 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

Ephesians 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

I John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

I Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

I Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

Will God ever forsake you?

Deuteronomy 4:31 (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them.

Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.

Deuteronomy 31:8 And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

He told them that He wouldn't.

Deuteronomy 31:16 And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a ******* after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them.

Deuteronomy 31:17 Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us?

Joshua 24:20 If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

I Chronicles 28:9 And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever.

I Chronicles 28:20 And David said to Solomon his son, Be strong and of good courage, and do it: fear not, nor be dismayed: for the LORD God, even my God, will be with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee, until thou hast finished all the work for the service of the house of the LORD.

II Chronicles 15:2 And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you.

Psalm 27:9 Hide not thy face far from me; put not thy servant away in anger: thou hast been my help; leave me not, neither forsake me, O God of my salvation.

Psalm 119:8 I will keep thy statutes: O forsake me not utterly.

A few more verses to think on:

I Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee. ( save thyself? shouldn't Timothy have already been saved? )

James 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

We've all heard this story:

Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Matthew 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Matthew 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Matthew 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 19:20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Matthew 19:22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Why didn't Jesus just tell this man something like, "If you'll just wait for a little bit longer, all that you'll have to do is 'believe' and you'll receive eternal life?" Why did it seem like Jesus was asking the man to "work" for salvation?

Luke 7:48 And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven.

Luke 7:49 And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also?

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.

Was this woman "saved" at this point?

Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.

Was he "saved" at this point? Had this man turned to go home and fell off a cliff and died, would he have gone to Hell because Jesus hadn't died on the cross yet?

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

"We" is Peter and the Jews that are in Christ, and the word 'shall' is future tense.

Jude 5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.

What's Jude's purpose in reminding us about this?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The above verse is quoted often but the following two never seem to follow it.

Galatians 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Galatians 2:18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. ( No big deal to someone who has been saved though, right? )

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Again, these verses could not be referring to the genuinely saved, right? Who has a part in the book of life and the holy city? The believer or the unbeliever?

Romans 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds: ( "deeds" and not "faith" )

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Romans 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Romans 2:9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; ( "doeth evil" and not "is an unbeliever" )

Romans 2:10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

Romans 3:20 is commonly quoted, but Romans 2:13 is never.

John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;

John 8:51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

The following are an interesting set of verses:

Romans 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

Romans 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Romans 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

Romans 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: ( standest by faith has to be referring to a believer, right? )

Romans 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. ( who shalt be cut off? )

Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

And then a few more:

I Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

I Thessalonians 3:8 For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Take care,
Read and Pray often







Most of these verses you posted don't have anything to do with bornagain believer losing his salvation but only because they are taken out of the context it may seem so.

And verses like Romans 2:7 refer to the behavior of beliver but not as if you could earn salvation through works: Eph 2:8-9. And Romans 11:20 talks about standing by faith, it isnt said this is somekinda matter of loosing/gaining eternal position.
And for hebrews 3 the only reason mentioned for disobedience was unbelief Heb 3:19. But we are Born-again believers...
 
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Dear Jari.

Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Is this out of context? How do you interpret this one Jari?
 
OK! This is the last post I will make on this subject EVER!! again! There just is no point in it. What is safer for a believer to hold fast to? OSAS and find out you are wrong,or never believing we can ever get to close to the Lord? You see to me OSAS means, do what you want!! Nothing matters anymore ,you have made it. Jesus never taught that in his Word, that one can sit back, we are to strive always. 1 Tim 4:10,But believe what you want to,I am worn out on this subject.Blessing all
 
Hey Brighthouse.

It is always a pleasure to read your posts.

You shoot from the heart, I need to be more like you.

But, I do understand your reluctance to continue on this
thread.
 
OK! This is the last post I will make on this subject EVER!! again! There just is no point in it. What is safer for a believer to hold fast to? OSAS and find out you are wrong,or never believing we can ever get to close to the Lord? You see to me OSAS means, do what you want!! Nothing matters anymore ,you have made it. Jesus never taught that in his Word, that one can sit back, we are to strive always. 1 Tim 4:10,But believe what you want to,I am worn out on this subject.Blessing all

It's not like people who dont believe OSAS are better christians. If they were they should be serving Lord a lot and starting revivals....

But Bible says it's the grace of God that causes us to do good.
Not our striving... But Grace.


2Co 4:15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.


Rom 5:2-5 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (3) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; (4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope: (5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

Grace brings salvation, not self preservation or works, or our goodness nor our holyness:nor our holyness:


Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,


Rom 5:15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

To think we can obtain salvation by our self is frustrating God's grace:

Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The apostole didnt want to get tangled in trying to earn his salvation but simply believe in God's grace and serve the Lord.



Luk 1:74-77 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, (75) In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. (76) And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; (77) To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins,
 
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