Pentecostal Christians worldwide under the baptize of the Holy Spirit

[lentz]

No offence to you Brother, but I'm in the camp that says the completed canon of Scripture did away with tongues.

It seems some of the Pentecostals, Church of God and Foursquare believe that speaking in tongues is for everyone. Paul asks some questions in 1Cor. 12:29-30 that common sense tells us that's not the case.

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?

Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

The obvious answer the Apostles questions is NO. Speaking in tongues was not given to all.

But yet many in those ranks say it is.

And they will label you an atheist
Or lost and undone at best

 

[Charlie24]

If you do not know and understand the difference between the ministry gift of speaking in tongues and praying in tongues then you will misunderstand that not every one has a ministry gift of speaking in tongues, so yes not every one speaks in tongues as a ministry, but they should as a prayer language, in the same way not every one are teachers, or prophets, or are Apostles.

No, Curtis that's not going to work! Paul didn't break down speaking in tongues in categories of Praying tongues and Speaking tongues, you've done that.

He plainly said, "Do all speak with tongues?" You're throwing that Charismatic charm into the mix.

 

[Curtis]

No, Curtis that's not going to work! Paul didn't break down speaking in tongues in categories of Praying tongues and Speaking tongues, you've done that.

He plainly said, "Do all speak with tongues?" You're throwing that Charismatic charm into the mix.

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Would you say that these are all ministry gifts set by God Himself? Are diversities of tongues set as a ministry gift by God?
Are ALL apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, healing, speak in tongues, do all interpret? The answer is NO! Why? because they "ministry gifts!"

How many people who were filled with the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues in scripture? Were they ALL in the ministry? What did the Apostle Paul say about speaking in tongues?

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Was the Apostle Paul speaking to a group of ministers at a convention? Who was the ALL he was referring to?

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Rom 8:26 So too the Spirit assists us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray aright, but the Spirit pleads for us with sighs that are beyond words,

Do you know exactly what to pray in every instance? Do only ministers know what to pray for? The answer is no so how can a believer pray the exact will of God without praying in and by the Holy Spirit? You can not!

Speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit!

On the day of Pentecost, how many of them were ministers who spoke in tongues?

 

[Charlie24]

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
1Co 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

Would you say that these are all ministry gifts set by God Himself? Are diversities of tongues set as a ministry gift by God?
Are ALL apostles, prophets, teachers, workers of miracles, healing, speak in tongues, do all interpret? The answer is NO! Why? because they "ministry gifts!"

How many people who were filled with the Holy Spirit spoke in tongues in scripture? Were they ALL in the ministry? What did the Apostle Paul say about speaking in tongues?

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Was the Apostle Paul speaking to a group of ministers at a convention? Who was the ALL he was referring to?

1Co 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

Rom 8:26 So too the Spirit assists us in our weakness; for we do not know how to pray aright, but the Spirit pleads for us with sighs that are beyond words,

Do you know exactly what to pray in every instance? Do only ministers know what to pray for? The answer is no so how can a believer pray the exact will of God without praying in and by the Holy Spirit? You can not!

Speaking in tongues is the initial evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit!

Paul plainly said there are diversities of tongues, no argument on that!

My point is that when Paul said "Do all speak with tongues" he used no diversities as you have.

You're making it sound like there are exceptions to "Do all speak in tongues" and that is not there!

 

[Curtis]

Paul plainly said there are diversities of tongues, no argument on that!

My point is that when Paul said "Do all speak with tongues" he used no diversities as you have.

You're making it sound like there are exceptions to "Do all speak in tongues" and that is not there!

I did not use "diversities" that is what the scripture says not me.

1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

These are not my words. The answer is "NO" Not everyone speaks in tongues as a ministry gift! But yes there is a ministry of speaking in tongues and interpretation. There is speaking in tongues as a prayer language that every Christian should do!.

 

[Charlie24]

I did not use "diversities" that is what the scripture says not me.

1Co 12:30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

These are not my words. The answer is "NO" Not everyone speaks in tongues as a ministry gift! But yes there is a ministry of speaking in tongues and interpretation. There is speaking in tongues as a prayer language that every Christian should do!.

OK, we're running off the rails here.

In post #79 you said this.

" so yes not every one speaks in tongues as a ministry, but they should as a prayer language, in the same way not every one are teachers, or prophets, or are Apostles."

Let's concentrate on "but they should use a prayer language"

Ok, right there you are suggesting that even one who has not been given the gift of tongues "should use a prayer language>"

That is my point! Paul said no such thing, you said that not him.

 

[Christ4Ever]

And they will label you an atheist
Or lost and undone at best

Dear Brother,

You've said it before, and now I'm calling you on it! What post was it said to you or anyone else that if you didn't speak in tongues you must be an atheist? Name them here and show where that was done to you or anyone else on this thread or stop it.

I hope you can show that or all you are doing is sowing discord here!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<><

 

[Curtis]

Ok, right there you are suggesting that even one who has not been given the gift of tongues "should use a prayer language>"

You are still not seeing what scripture is saying. Every single person who has been filled with the Holy Spirit speaks in unknown tongues according to the scriptures.

That does not mean that they were given a ministry of speaking in tongues as a ministry gift. Anyone can prophesy in a Church setting, but that does not make them a prophet. God hath set in the Church certain ministry gifts. What are they?

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

diversities of tongues is a ministry gift given by God to a person. This is not the same thing as praying in tongues that ALL believers who are filled with the Holy Spirit should do. Just because I am filled with the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues that does not mean I was given a ministry of unknown tongues and interpretation even though it all comes by way of the same Holy Spirit.

Everyone God sets in his Church for a ministry of unknown tongues will speak in tongues, in the same way, every one filled with the Spirit of God will also speak in tongues, but not in a ministerial way.

 

[Charlie24]

You are still not seeing what scripture is saying. Every single person who has been filled with the Holy Spirit speaks in unknown tongues according to the scriptures.

That does not mean that they were given a ministry of speaking in tongues as a ministry gift. Anyone can prophesy in a Church setting, but that does not make them a prophet. God hath set in the Church certain ministry gifts. What are they?

1Co 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.

diversities of tongues is a ministry gift given by God to a person. This is not the same thing as praying in tongues that ALL believers who are filled with the Holy Spirit should do. Just because I am filled with the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues that does not mean I was given a ministry of unknown tongues and interpretation even though it all comes by way of the same Holy Spirit.

Everyone God sets in his Church for a ministry of unknown tongues will speak in tongues, in the same way, every one filled with the Spirit of God will also speak in tongues, but not in a ministerial way.

You can go on and on with your diversity of tongues.

But the fact is that not everyone speaks in tongues according to Paul.

And your assumption that we who don't speak in tongues should us a prayer language is not found in Scripture!

 

[Curtis]

You can go on and on with your diversity of tongues.

But the fact is that not everyone speaks in tongues according to Paul.

And your assumption that we who don't speak in tongues should us a prayer language is not found in Scripture!

I totally disagree with you, but that's okay.

 

[Charlie24]

I totally disagree with you, but that's okay.

I agree to disagree, just be careful what you say about tongues and stay in the Scripture with it.

The division on tongues is not easy for any of us.

 

[Curtis]

The Apostle Paul said......

1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Prophesy is greater than speaking in tongues unless there is an interpretation of tongues which then makes them equal.

Every person in the Corinthian Church spoke in tongues meaning they were all filled with the Holy Spirit.

Paul said speaking to the Corinthian Chuch.....

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

 

[lentz]

Dear Brother,

You've said it before, and now I'm calling you on it! What post was it said to you or anyone else that if you didn't speak in tongues you must be an atheist? Name them here and show where that was done to you or anyone else on this thread or stop it.

I hope you can show that or all you are doing is sowing discord here!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
Moderator
Nick
\o/
<>

Go ahead and close my account.
I have had enough of liberals pretending to be Christian
Close it now.
Not just bann,but delete everything

 

[Charlie24]

The Apostle Paul said......

1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Prophesy is greater than speaking in tongues unless there is an interpretation of tongues which then makes them equal.

Every person in the Corinthian Church spoke in tongues meaning they were all filled with the Holy Spirit.

Paul said speaking to the Corinthian Chuch.....

1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

Yes, we have proof from Scripture that all the Corinthians did speak in tongues. But were they using the gifts of the Spirit in the Spirit or perverting them? Lets see what Paul said about that!

In Corinthians 12, Paul makes it crystal clear that the Holy Spirit gives the 9 gifts to whom He will. One receives this gift another that gift, not all have the same gifts. He especially makes the point that not all receive the gift of tongues.

Then in 1 Cor. 14:26 Paul says this to the Corinthians.

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

Paul is here rebuking the Corinthians for perverting the gifts of the Spirit. He does it in a controlled manner but nevertheless he is correcting them. It was not Biblical for all the Corinthians to be speaking in tongues, they were holy rolling fakes perverting the gifts. Knowing Paul's manner, I don't know how he managed to control himself when doing this correction. He's a better man than myself. No doubt he blew off his anger before he began to write.

 

[Charlie24]

Go ahead and close my account.
I have had enough of liberals pretending to be Christian
Close it now.
Not just bann,but delete everything

Lentz, reconsider your decision for a moment. I would hate to see you leave.

I know what you're going through, it burned in my gut like a furnace for years.

With the help of the Lord I got a handle on it, though I haven't yet perfected it.

You can do the same! Just give it some thought before it becomes final, Brother.

 

[Curtis]

Yes, we have proof from Scripture that all the Corinthians did speak in tongues. But were they using the gifts of the Spirit in the Spirit or perverting them? Lets see what Paul said about that!

In Corinthians 12, Paul makes it crystal clear that the Holy Spirit gives the 9 gifts to whom He will. One receives this gift another that gift, not all have the same gifts. He especially makes the point that not all receive the gift of tongues.

Then in 1 Cor. 14:26 Paul says this to the Corinthians.

"How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying."

Paul is here rebuking the Corinthians for perverting the gifts of the Spirit. He does it in a controlled manner but nevertheless he is correcting them. It was not Biblical for all the Corinthians to be speaking in tongues, they were holy rolling fakes perverting the gifts. Knowing Paul's manner, I don't know how he managed to control himself when doing this correction. He's a better man than myself. No doubt he blew off his anger before he began to write.

Sorry, you not correct. Paul never told the Cor Church they were using fake tongues or fakes. It iis not good as you already know not to add to add or take away from scripture. The gift of tongues is for ministry use only as I have shown you already not everyone is given that gift, but yes every single Spirit filled person is suppose to speak in tongues. If you are not Spirit filled than don’t worry about speaking in tongues God will not force you to believe.

1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

 

[Charlie24]

Sorry, you not correct. Paul never told the Cor Church they were using fake tongues or fakes. It iis not good as you already know not to add to add or take away from scripture. The gift of tongues is for ministry use only as I have shown you already not everyone is given that gift, but yes every single Spirit filled person is suppose to speak in tongues. If you are not Spirit filled than don’t worry about speaking in tongues God will not force you to believe.

1Co 14:5 Now I would have you all speak with tongues, but rather that ye should prophesy: and greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.

Well Curtis, if you can't see it from the Scripture as I have provided, then I can't make you see it.

 

[Curtis]

Well Curtis, if you can't see it from the Scripture as I have provided, then I can't make you see it.

What scriptures, You have not provided any scriptures that show that tongues are not to be used. The scriptures says let every thing be in order.

The Cor Church were very zealous about speaking in tongues, but Paul tells them that he spake in tongues for then them all.

1Co 14:18 I thank God that I speak in [strange] tongues (languages) more than any of you or all of you put together;(AMP)

Paul was more zealous in speaking in tongues than all the Cor Church!

 

[Charlie24]

What scriptures, You have not provided any scriptures that show that tongues are not to be used. The scriptures says let every thing be in order.

The Cor Church were very zealous about speaking in tongues, but Paul tells them that he spake in tongues for then them all.

1Co 14:18 I thank God that I speak in [strange] tongues (languages) more than any of you or all of you put together;(AMP)

Paul was more zealous in speaking in tongues than all the Cor Church!

The great Apostle Paul was given the gift of tongues, I would dare say to fulfill all that God gave him he had all 9 of the gifts of the Spirit.

That's not the case with the Corinthians, not all had that gift of tongues, they faked it and Paul corrected them in good fashion.

When Paul said "I would that you all spoke in tongues" he was saying, "I wish you all spoke in tongues."

The Corinthians were out of line but the great Apostle set them straight. I wish he were here now to set us straight.

 

[Bill Taylor]

Alleluia, Amen Brother Bill!
Thank-you for sharing a bit of your testimony with us here!
I am blessed in reading it! Thank-you Jesunns!

With the Love of Christ Jesus.
YBIC
Nick
\o/
<><
P.S. I had not heard this before brother. Thanks for sharing this as well...

I've not seen this video before but this number still brings tears to my eyes whether she sings it, the author sings it or if I have a week moment and I sing it once more. It is just difficult to grasp that the leader of the Sanhedrin would quote scripture when he said "It is good that one should die for the many," as he sent Yashua to be nailed to the Roman Cross, he knew this is the Christ.