Pentecostal Christians worldwide under the baptize of the Holy Spirit

[Curtis]

Then I found the lie they were telling, it's not for everyone as they claim.

So you are believing the lie that the devil has spread through Christianity that tongues has ceased?
The power of the Holy Spirit as Jesus told his disciples to wait for would be the devils number one target.

 

[Charlie24]

So you are believing the lie that the devil has spread through Christianity that tongues has ceased?
The power of the Holy Spirit as Jesus told his disciples to wait for would be the devils number one target.

I believe as Paul said, tongues will cease, the question is when from his day did or will it cease.

I believe tongues served a purpose in the building of the 1st century Church.

It was as sign that was no longer needed once the circulation of NT Scripture came about.

 

[Curtis]

I've been to several Charismatic Churches in my day. I've seen how they make alter calls for the "baptism of the Holy Spirit.

They coach them, "open your mouth and let it flow," "your not trying hard enough, "utter that first word and it will begin."

None of this junk is Biblical, those who received it didn't ask for it, they weren't coached, they received it without knowing it was coming.

Which brings us to the question, is this still in effect today?

That is not true Jesus told his disciples to wait until they were endured with power from on high. Peter asked born again believers if they received the Holy Spirit since they believed.

 

[Curtis]

It was as sign that was no longer needed once the circulation of NT Scripture came about.

That is also not true the “perfect” has not yet come as we as are still looking through a glass darkly.

Do you know what the perfect is? It is not about the Bible it is about becoming a perfect (mature) child of God.

 

[Charlie24]

That is not true Jesus told his disciples to wait until they were endured with power from on high. Peter asked born again believers if they received the Holy Spirit since they believed.

Of course he did, we all know that! We all know tongues was very much a part of the ist century Church.

 

[Charlie24]

That is also not true the “perfect” has not yet come as we as are still looking through a glass darkly.

Well now's your opportunity to put an end to a 19 century debate.

All you have to do is prove it's a lie.

 

[Charlie24]

Well now's your opportunity to put an end to a 19 century debate.

All you have to do is prove it's a lie.

The key to the argument is when Paul said "when that which is perfect is come."

Paul made it clear that tongues would cease "when that which is perfect is come."

Is that the fulfillment of the NT Scripture or is it when the rapture takes place and it won't be needed anymore as Mr. Wigglesworth said?

 

[Charlie24]

The key to the argument is when Paul said "when that which is perfect is come."

Paul made it clear that tongues would cease "when that which is perfect is come."

Is that the fulfillment of the NT Scripture or is it when the rapture takes place and it won't be needed anymore as Mr. Wigglesworth said?

The argument in detail for tongues ceasing at the time of the rapture is a very good one, well founded on Scripture if I must say so.

I'm very impressed with it and don't deny in any way that it is very much possible.

 

[Charlie24]

The argument in detail for tongues ceasing at the time of the rapture is a very good one, well founded on Scripture if I must say so.

I'm very impressed with it and don't deny in any way that it is very much possible.

But I lean toward the fulfillment of NT Scripture for several reasons. But I'm not totally convinced of it!

 

[Charlie24]

But I lean toward the fulfillment of NT Scripture for several reasons. But I'm not totally convinced of it!

One more thing. the only reason I'm involved in this thread is that the Charismatic leaders are telling us we all need to baptized with the Holy Spirt with the evidence of speaking in other tongues to carry out to the fullest what God has given us.

I reject this whole heartedly, with every fiber of my being!!! That is NOT what the Scripture teaches!!!

 

[Curtis]

Well now's your opportunity to put an end to a 19 century debate.

All you have to do is prove it's a lie.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

How long will the five fold ministry gifts last?

They will continue until the body of Christ on earth becomes a "perfect man"!! The word perfect means mature, full-grown.

This is the perfect and when this happens the fivefold ministry gifts will cease along with tongues, but right now we are still looking through a glass darkly there for tongues and all the ministry gifts will continue.

 

[Curtis]

I reject this whole heartedly, with every fiber of my being!!! That is NOT what the Scripture teaches!!!

That's funny because the ministers who thought the exact same thing and finally received the baptism are now teaching the opposite.

 

[Charlie24]

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

How long will the five fold ministry gifts last?

They will continue until the body of Christ on earth becomes a "perfect man"!! The word perfect means mature, full-grown.

This is the perfect and when this happens the fivefold ministry gifts will cease along with tongues, but right now we are still looking through a glass darkly there for tongues and all the ministry gifts will continue.

The fundamentalists will say "we are looking through a glass darkly" because the NT Scripture uncovers the mysteries of the OT Scripture.

Therefore, when the full cannon of Scripture (which is perfect) comes, tongues will cease.

 

[Charlie24]

That's funny because the ministers who thought the exact same thing and finally received the baptism are now teaching the opposite.

Yea, and we've had some Republicans to play the Dem side too.

 

[Curtis]

Therefore, when the full cannon of Scripture (which is perfect) comes, tongues will cease.

Not true at all.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Knowledge and tongues will pass away at the same time! Do we still have "knowledge" today?

 

[Curtis]

Therefore, when the full cannon of Scripture (which is perfect) comes, tongues will cease.

There is no scripture that says that and you know it.

 

[Charlie24]

Not true at all.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Knowledge and tongues will pass away at the same time! Do we still have "knowledge" today?

That's what Donny Swaggart so famously said.

Then the Fundamentalists said, the word "knowledge" in that verse is defined as "the knowledge of hidden mysteries."

They go right back to "the NT Scripture uncovers the mysteries of the OT Scripture."

So yes, they both disappear at the same time.

 

[Charlie24]

There is no scripture that says that and you know it.

There is no Scripture that says you know it. That's why it's been debated since it was written by Paul.

 

[Curtis]

Therefore, when the full cannon of Scripture (which is perfect) comes, tongues will cease.

Not true at all.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

That's what Donny Swaggart so famously said.

Then the Fundamentalists said, the word "knowledge" in that verse is defined as "the knowledge of hidden mysteries."

They go right back to "the NT Scripture uncovers the mysteries of the OT Scripture."

So yes, they both disappear at the same time.

the word knowledge here means “fragmentary knowledge” which means “for we know in part…..”

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Knowing in part is a fragmentary knowledge which is why we are now seeing through a glass darkly, which means the perfect has not yet come which means nothing has been done away yet.

 

[Charlie24]

Not true at all.

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

the word knowledge here means “fragmentary knowledge” which means “for we know in part…..”

1Co 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

1Co 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

1Co 13:12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

Knowing in part is a fragmentary knowledge which is why we are now seeing through a glass darkly, which means the perfect has not yet come which means nothing has been done away yet.

Knowing in part is only having the OT Scripture, it's dark to knowledge and unrevealing,

When the NT Scripture came it revealed the dark knowledge, uncovering it's truths of Christ, etc.

This is when I say and millions of others, tongues ceased.