Praying in the Spirit Romans 8: 26 -30

[Waggles]

Heh-heh; no your church dogma is.

You just simply get ruder and ruder.

 

[QuestionIt]

You just simply get ruder and ruder.

Slander against God always is!

 

[Waggles]

Slander against God always is!

So now you are claiming to be God.

 

[QuestionIt]

So now you are claiming to be God.

The excuses you give are getting weaker and weaker....

 

[God's Truth]

??????? Where did you ever hear that?????????

A saved person is not supposed to have a carnal mind anymore, so says the written word of God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

 

[God's Truth]

Why do you suppose you are able to do the things you are told not to do??

What? Why you are able to do the things you are told not to do? What does that mean?

 

[Samson2020]

What? Why you are able to do the things you are told not to do? What does that mean?

That means you still have a carnal mind that you have to die to daily. Can you still sin? Are you still dying in the flesh? Then you still have a carnal mind like it or not and it is your greatest enemy.
It was a response to your claim that you no longer have a carnal mind in post 65

 

[God's Truth]

I am telling you that the reason you are told to not do the things you listed is because you still have a carnal mind.

I do not have a carnal mind and anyone who does is hostile towards God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

The scripture says "Be not carnally minded" They do not say that your carnal mind has been removed, Indeed the carnal mind that God has laid on all men is the
greatest enemy of the individual that He could provide.

According to you God has laid a carnal mind on all men and you don't believe we can repent of it and don't have to obey and think of things God says to?

That carnal mind will always look outwardly at other mens evil and never turns its gaze upon itself.

Is that what you always do?
You think that is right for you to do that?
It sounds like someone is not obeying.

That only begins once one is born again and realizes that they actually do have
a carnal mind.

A born again person submits to God and dies to the sins of the world and lives to please Jesus.
You think a person keeps a carnal mind.

The spirit within the believer is always at war with the flesh which is controlled by the carnal mind through physical inputs like sight, touch, smell etc.... and acts on those things.

Sounds to me that you don't believe in overcoming.
The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.


Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”


Did you see that? The one who struggles with God and with men and overcomes that is who Israel is.


And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.


Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

Revelation 2:26 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations–

Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.


And there is only one way a person struggles with God and men and overcomes in this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.


1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.


Therefore, who and what is Israel—Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.

My question was intended to allow you to think about your statement that a believer is "not supposed to have a carnal mind"

No believer is supposed to.

That mind will always be with you until the day you are changed in the twinkling of an eye or you die, whichever comes first.

That is not what God says.

It is there to defeat you. As an overcomer you are to defeat it. The only way that happens is to take up your cross daily and die to the carnal minds constant desires.

You spent your time going against me when I said we aren't supposed to stay carnally minded! Then you at your last sentence contradict yourself saying we are all carnally minded and have to die to the carnal mind.
I see you went against me and then found scripture that rebukes what you said to me and then slipped it in as if you always knew it.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The saved aren't supposed to have a carnal mind anymore, just like I said and what you went against me for saying.

 

[Sue D.]

We are told in Philippians 4:8 all the things we should be meditating on. Which means our minds are still a le to think about other things. It's been said that the mind is the devil's playground. We need to protect our thoughts

 

[God's Truth]

You still got one you just don't realize it, and that makes me wonder to what degree, if any, you really are one of His sheep.

Just listen to that fouled way you judge me and the insults you make to me.

I couldn't care less about your theories on tongues and have less inclination to bring any personal attack on you.

What did you just do then saying that to me?

I do however wonder about your comprehension, and that is no personal
attack its just concern as you seem unable to receive anything from anyone and maintain a useful constructive dialogue.

See that, just more insults, and all that after we had done a lot of debating about tongue speaking where you didn't like what I said.

 

[Sue D.]

I do not have a carnal mind and anyone who does is hostile towards God.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

According to you God has laid a carnal mind on all men and you don't believe we can repent of it and don't have to obey and think of things God says to?


Is that what you always do?
You think that is right for you to do that?
It sounds like someone is not obeying.

A born again person submits to God and dies to the sins of the world and lives to please Jesus.
You think a person keeps a carnal mind.

Sounds to me that you don't believe in overcoming.
The first book in the Bible tells us who and what Israel is. See Genesis 32:28.


Genesis 32:28 Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”


Did you see that? The one who struggles with God and with men and overcomes that is who Israel is.


And Jesus in the last book of the Bible confirms this message. See these scriptures in Revelation. Read what Jesus says about overcoming.


Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

Revelation 2:26 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations–

Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.


And there is only one way a person struggles with God and men and overcomes in this world, and that is through Jesus Christ our Savior.


1 John 5:5 Who is it that overcomes the world? Only he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God.


Therefore, who and what is Israel—Israel is people who overcome by faith in Jesus Christ.

No believer is supposed to.


That is not what God says.

You spent your time going against me when I said we aren't supposed to stay carnally minded! Then you at your last sentence contradict yourself saying we are all carnally minded and have to die to the carnal mind.
I see you went against me and then found scripture that rebukes what you said to me and then slipped it in as if you always knew it.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

The saved aren't supposed to have a carnal mind anymore, just like I said and what you went against me for saying.

Aren't we supposed to be applying God's Word and not putting one guy better than the other. Just saying.

 

[God's Truth]

Aren't we supposed to be applying God's Word and not putting one guy better than the other. Just saying.

What are you saying? You don't like it that I say what the scriptures say about thinking what is lovely and true and not thinking carnally? What's your point? You don't like me defending myself against the falseness others say about me, even though Apostle Paul defended himself? Is that what you do, just let anyone say anything against you? Do you speak what the scriptures say or just agree with anyone who goes against the scriptures?

 

[God's Truth]

Aren't we supposed to be applying God's Word and not putting one guy better than the other. Just saying.

Looks like that is exactly what YOU are doing. lol smh

 

[Sue D.]

Hmmmm-- you might have a point there.

 

[GodB4Us]

Romans 8:26–30

Praying in the Spirit
Things looked bleak for the children of George Muller's orphanage at Ashley Downs in England. It was time for breakfast, and there was no food. A small girl whose father was a close friend of Muller was visiting in the home. Muller took her hand and said, "Come and see what our Father will do." In the dining room, long tables were set with empty plates and empty mugs. Not only was there no food in the kitchen, but there was no money in the children home's account.

Muller prayed, "Dear Father, we thank Thee for what Thou art going to give us to eat." Immediately, they heard a knock at the door. When they opened it, there stood the local baker. "Mr. Muller," he said, "I couldn't sleep last night. Somehow I felt you had no bread for breakfast, so I got up at 2 o'clock and baked fresh bread. Here it is." Muller thanked him and gave praise to God.

Soon, a second knock was heard. It was the milkman. His cart had broken down in front of the orphanage. He said he would like to give the children the milk so he could empty the cart and repair it.

God answers prayer. He wants us involved in His eternal purpose. As a loving, Father He wants us to come to Him and ask in faith. The Spirit–filled Christian is a praying Christian who walks by faith trusting His heavenly Father to provide daily.

The life of the Christian is a daily Spirit–controlled life. It is not a life designed just for the weekend, just for Sunday, or just for the church. It is a life designed for the home, the school, the place of employment, the office, the kitchen––wherever you are. It is there that God expects us to live a Spirit–filled life. The Spirit–filled life is not a religious cop out. It is designed to meet the need of every moment of your week, and to be your source of strength and power right through all the difficulties of each day.

PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT (8:26–27)
The Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8:26–27 words of encouragement for trouble filled days. He said: "In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."

God wants us to ask.
One of the great mysteries of life is prayer. God the Father takes joy in answering prayer. It is our responsibility to go to Him and enter into fellowship with Him. Prayer is more than just asking God for things. It is an attitude, a way of life. It involves formal prayers as when we come before Him in corporeal worship. It is also when we come before Him silently in the classroom, a business adventure, or in a public setting. In Ephesians 6:18, the apostle Paul asked the church at Ephesus to pray for him in his ministry, “With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints."

There are other times when life is just simply too big, and too complex, and we do not know what to ask for. In such times, we know neither what to pray for, nor how to present our petitions, as we ought. This is when the Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. He graciously shares with us the bearing of this burden.

He gives wisdom to all who come and ask Him. "But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind" (James 1:5–6).

Jesus is our perfect example of praying in the Spirit.
He was the perfect Spirit–filled man. Luke, the Greek Physician, gives a good summary of the Holy Spirit's ministry in Jesus.

Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well–pleased . . . . Jesus full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness . . . . And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district. And He began teaching in their synagogues and was praised by all. And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,

Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord." (Luke 3:21–22; 4:1, 14–18).

Why did Jesus pray? He prayed to maintain the intimate love relationship with the Father. Jesus experienced unbroken sweet communion between He and His Father. Throughout the four Gospels, we find Jesus abiding in the presence of the Father. He sought to do the will of the Father.

Where did Jesus pray? He prayed everywhere: with His disciples, in small groups with Peter, James and John. He prayed alone in the mountains, He prayed on a picnic with His disciples by the lakeside, etc.

Jesus prayed without ceasing. It was His custom to pray. He prayed before making important decisions as when He called the twelve. He asked for the Father's guidance. He spent the entire night paying for the Father's will.

What did He pray for? He prayed for Himself. He prayed for the disciples to know spiritual truths, "Flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but My Father who is in heaven." He prayed for Peter when he said, "I have prayed for you that your faith will not fail." In warning Peter the very night of His denial Jesus said, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:31–32).

He encouraged them to pray and not to become weighed down by the worries of life. "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36).

Not only did Jesus pray with a deep burden and sense of urgency for His disciples, but He also prayed for strength for Himself. Have you ever listened to the groanings of Jesus as He prayed?

And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. When He arrived at the place, He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done." Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground. When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, and said to them, "Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation. (Luke 22: 39–46).

While Jesus is yet speaking, the mob came to arrest Him.

It is interesting as we consider Jesus as our best example of the Spirit–controlled man praying in the Spirit that there is no record of His ever praying in "tongues."

People ask is this groaning in the Spirit praying in tongues. There seems little reason to embrace such a view. All of creation is sighing and groaning. They are not speaking in charismatic tongues. It is the prayer of every Christian. The Holy Spirit makes intercession even through our groanings.

Speaking in tongues or praying emotionally ecstatic meaningless syllables is not what Paul is talking about in Romans 8:26. These are not ecstatic cries or tongues or any special language that is mentioned here. Paul specifically says that the praying of the Spirit is too deep for words, or even utterance. It is unuttered; it cannot be expressed. It is felt only in the heart, and it never comes to the surface of the lips. It never can be expressed. In other words, these are those deep yearnings of the soul that all of us feel at times for more of God for ourselves, or for someone else. This is why we often call it "a burden." It is a burden "too deep for words."

This word is found here only in the New Testament. These groanings are inexpressible, "unspoken," or "unutterable." They are without words. Perhaps it is impossible to put them into words.

Jesus prayed with this same kind of intense burden for a lost world in the Garden of Gethsemane. "Not my will, Thy will be done." When we pray in the Spirit, we have that same intense desire of the soul. We love for the will of God to be done in our lives.

The Holy Spirit does the same thing for us.
Where do you groan today? Where do you feel the sting of sin, or the hurt of a broken relationship? Where is the pain of an empty chair at your supper table, or the crushing defeat of loneliness? Is there the guilt of a conscience that refuses to be quieted, or the disappointment of unfaithfulness? What is the "groan" or "burden" or "weakness" you face today?

Can you identify with Paul in Second Corinthians 4:7–12? In part he says, "we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death works in us, but life in you."

Pounds paraphrase reads: We possess this priceless treasure of the fragrance of the Gospel in these old fragile clay pots in order that the exceeding greatness of the power of God may be manifest, as coming from God and not from ourselves. We are hard pressed on every side with troubles all around us, but we are not crushed, we still have breathing room. We are perplexed and bewildered, but not despairing. We are hunted down by persecutors, but not forsaken by the Lord. We are always getting knocked down, but never a knockout.

You say "Life isn't fair." "That's not what I want out of my life."

We want to be glazed and polished, painted, displayed and put on some safe shelf. But that's not God's way of producing fragrance.

God's way of producing His fragrance is to take the pot off the shelf, break it and pour out the fragrance.

A. W. Tozer said, "It is doubtful God can bless any man greatly until He has hurt him deeply." Or as Alan Redpath once said: "When God wants to do an impossible task he takes an impossible man and crushes him."

How is the pot? Where is your weakness today? Do you feel squeezed in? Sickness, disease, heartache, disappointment, disaster, some crushing experience, tears, death, shadow of death . . . (v. 11 is a commentary on v. 10).

For Paul it meant, "afflicted . . . perplexed . . . persecuted . . . struck down." That was the process God used to release the fragrance in Paul's life. But please keep in mind Paul was not alone in this process. God was at work in Him. How did He do it?

In Romans 8:26, the Apostle Paul writes, "the Spirit helps our weakness." He was there with Paul in the afflictions, perplexities, persecutions and weaknesses.

Helps means to lend a hand together, at the same time with one, to help, to come to the aid of someone. That is the word of the Encourager, the Paraklete. A. T. Robertson said, "Here beautifully Paul pictures the Holy Spirit taking hold at our side at the very time of our weakness . . . and before too late."

The beautiful thing is His power is perfected in our weaknesses. When we die, He lives. When we lose, He wins. When we are weak, He is strong. When we are dependent, He is powerful. This is what God was doing in Paul. He does the same in us as we yield to Him. It is walking and praying in the Spirit.

Paul reminds us we don't know how to pray. Like Jesus' disciples we come to the Lord asking Him to teach us to pray. Paying is hard work. It is difficult for most of us. It takes thought, concentration and commitment. Moreover, we are not always good judges of that for which we should be praying. We ask amiss. We ask for the wrong things. I am afraid we often come to the Father asking for things that displease Him. We pray for things unprofitable for us in our walk with Him. Paul prayed intensely on three occasions for the thorn to be removed (2 Cor. 12:7–9). God did not remove the thorn. He gave Paul grace to grow trough the thorns in his life. In the process of suffering, Paul grew in the likeness of Christ.

We do not know what is best for us because we do not have God's overall perspective of what He is doing, not only in our lives, but also in the lives of those about us who in one way or another are impacted by our lives. There are always those who are silently watching us and observing how we live the Christian life. They are influenced by how we handle our weaknesses. Do they see us as instruments of God's grace? From our human perspective, we don't always see how God is using our situations to impact others for His good. Our perspective of our circumstances radically changes when we get eternity into the picture.

Isn't it wonderful to know that when we do not know how to pray or what to do the Holy Spirit comes to our aid?

Just to be clear, Romans 8:26-27 KJV is not inferring the Holy Spirit uses tongues for uttering His intercessions to God because the Father knows before we even ask Him Matthew 6:7-8 KJV

Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. <--- means no sound at all
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. KJV

Matthew 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. KJV <----- since this is true, there is no necessity for the Spirit to turn God's gift of tongues to speak unto the people around for His own use.

Below is the truth you will find in all Bible versions about how the Holy Spirit will not speak from Himself but say only words that He hears.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. KJV

Praying in the Spirit does not mean praying TO the Holy Spirit nor praying THROUGH the Holy Spirit or BY the Holy Spirit.

Saved believers that seek a filling of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation should apply praying in the Spirit to mean there is no cause for another filling as we are always Spirit-filled since salvation to be praying IN the Spirit.

Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.

We are always Spirit-filled since salvation as a forever testimony from God that He has saved us.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

So beware those who infer or imply that because believers do not pray in tongues, they do not have the Holy Spirit and thus are not saved.

2 Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

I am only sharing this in case those that err from hearing that lie and thinking that lie while reading the OP are thinking praying in tongues is required for the Holy Spirit to make intercessions for us. No, because Romans 8:26-27 has nothing to do with us praying in the Spirit, but about how the Father knows before we even ask Him as the Holy Spirit in each and every believer makes silent intercessions for us that Jesus knows the mind of the Spirit to give the Spirit's intercessions to the Father for the Holy Spirit as Jesus is the Word of God that searches our hearts, thus He is the One that knows the mind of the Spirit as Jesus is the only mediator between god and man to make give ALL intercessions to the Father so that when the Father agrees with any intercession, be it ours, or the Holy Spirit's or the Son's, the Son answers the prayers so that the Father may be glorified in the Son for answers to prayers.

That means we are to pray normally so we know what we had prayed for so when the Son answers the prayers, we can give the Father thanks in Jesus's name which is the will of God for us to do. Praying in tongues prevents that for why it is not of Him at all.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me....
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 Thessalonians 5:17 Pray without ceasing.
18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

Ephesians 5:20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Colossians 1:3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

Colossians 3:17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

Better to know what you had prayed for normally to give the Father thanks in Jesus's name than to not know what you had said in tongues for private use, be it by false assumption, for self edification or for praying to God, which God is not the author of confusion for why that kind of tongue is not of Him at all. Since it interferes with the will of God for us to do to pray normally & give genuine thanks for answers to prayers, saved believers should shun using tongues for private use and go before that throne of grace to ask Jesus normally in prayer and give thanks to the Father in Jesus's name for answers to prayers.

 

[vhusley]

Romans 8:26–30

Praying in the Spirit
Things looked bleak for the children of George Muller's orphanage at Ashley Downs in England. It was time for breakfast, and there was no food. A small girl whose father was a close friend of Muller was visiting in the home. Muller took her hand and said, "Come and see what our Father will do." In the dining room, long tables were set with empty plates and empty mugs. Not only was there no food in the kitchen, but there was no money in the children home's account.

Muller prayed, "Dear Father, we thank Thee for what Thou art going to give us to eat." Immediately, they heard a knock at the door. When they opened it, there stood the local baker. "Mr. Muller," he said, "I couldn't sleep last night. Somehow I felt you had no bread for breakfast, so I got up at 2 o'clock and baked fresh bread. Here it is." Muller thanked him and gave praise to God.

Soon, a second knock was heard. It was the milkman. His cart had broken down in front of the orphanage. He said he would like to give the children the milk so he could empty the cart and repair it.

God answers prayer. He wants us involved in His eternal purpose. As a loving, Father He wants us to come to Him and ask in faith. The Spirit–filled Christian is a praying Christian who walks by faith trusting His heavenly Father to provide daily.

The life of the Christian is a daily Spirit–controlled life. It is not a life designed just for the weekend, just for Sunday, or just for the church. It is a life designed for the home, the school, the place of employment, the office, the kitchen––wherever you are. It is there that God expects us to live a Spirit–filled life. The Spirit–filled life is not a religious cop out. It is designed to meet the need of every moment of your week, and to be your source of strength and power right through all the difficulties of each day.

PRAYING IN THE SPIRIT (8:26–27)
The Apostle Paul wrote in Romans 8:26–27 words of encouragement for trouble filled days. He said: "In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."

God wants us to ask.
One of the great mysteries of life is prayer. God the Father takes joy in answering prayer. It is our responsibility to go to Him and enter into fellowship with Him. Prayer is more than just asking God for things. It is an attitude, a way of life. It involves formal prayers as when we come before Him in corporeal worship. It is also when we come before Him silently in the classroom, a business adventure, or in a public setting. In Ephesians 6:18, the apostle Paul asked the church at Ephesus to pray for him in his ministry, “With all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints."

There are other times when life is just simply too big, and too complex, and we do not know what to ask for. In such times, we know neither what to pray for, nor how to present our petitions, as we ought. This is when the Holy Spirit intercedes on our behalf. He graciously shares with us the bearing of this burden.

He gives wisdom to all who come and ask Him. "But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But he must ask in faith without any doubting, for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind" (James 1:5–6).

Jesus is our perfect example of praying in the Spirit.
He was the perfect Spirit–filled man. Luke, the Greek Physician, gives a good summary of the Holy Spirit's ministry in Jesus.

Jesus was also baptized, and while He was praying, heaven was opened, and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, "You are My beloved Son, in You I am well–pleased . . . . Jesus full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led around by the Spirit in the wilderness . . . . And Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about Him spread through all the surrounding district. And He began teaching in their synagogues and was praised by all. And He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up; and as was His custom, He entered the synagogue on the Sabbath, and stood up to read. And the book of the prophet Isaiah was handed to Him. And He opened the book and found the place where it was written,

"The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me,

Because He anointed Me to preach the gospel to the poor.
He has sent Me to proclaim release to the captives,
And recovery of sight to the blind,
To set free those who are oppressed,
To proclaim the favorable year of the Lord." (Luke 3:21–22; 4:1, 14–18).

Why did Jesus pray? He prayed to maintain the intimate love relationship with the Father. Jesus experienced unbroken sweet communion between He and His Father. Throughout the four Gospels, we find Jesus abiding in the presence of the Father. He sought to do the will of the Father.

Where did Jesus pray? He prayed everywhere: with His disciples, in small groups with Peter, James and John. He prayed alone in the mountains, He prayed on a picnic with His disciples by the lakeside, etc.

Jesus prayed without ceasing. It was His custom to pray. He prayed before making important decisions as when He called the twelve. He asked for the Father's guidance. He spent the entire night paying for the Father's will.

What did He pray for? He prayed for Himself. He prayed for the disciples to know spiritual truths, "Flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you, but My Father who is in heaven." He prayed for Peter when he said, "I have prayed for you that your faith will not fail." In warning Peter the very night of His denial Jesus said, "Simon, Simon, behold, Satan has demanded permission to sift you like wheat; but I have prayed for you, that your faith may not fail; and you, when once you have turned again, strengthen your brothers" (Luke 22:31–32).

He encouraged them to pray and not to become weighed down by the worries of life. "But keep on the alert at all times, praying that you may have strength to escape all these things that are about to take place, and to stand before the Son of Man" (Luke 21:36).

Not only did Jesus pray with a deep burden and sense of urgency for His disciples, but He also prayed for strength for Himself. Have you ever listened to the groanings of Jesus as He prayed?

And He came out and proceeded as was His custom to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples also followed Him. When He arrived at the place, He said to them, "Pray that you may not enter into temptation." And He withdrew from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and began to pray, saying, "Father, if You are willing, remove this cup from Me; yet not My will, but Yours be done." Now an angel from heaven appeared to Him, strengthening Him. And being in agony He was praying very fervently; and His sweat became like drops of blood, falling down upon the ground. When He rose from prayer, He came to the disciples and found them sleeping from sorrow, and said to them, "Why are you sleeping? Get up and pray that you may not enter into temptation. (Luke 22: 39–46).

While Jesus is yet speaking, the mob came to arrest Him.

It is interesting as we consider Jesus as our best example of the Spirit–controlled man praying in the Spirit that there is no record of His ever praying in "tongues."

People ask is this groaning in the Spirit praying in tongues. There seems little reason to embrace such a view. All of creation is sighing and groaning. They are not speaking in charismatic tongues. It is the prayer of every Christian. The Holy Spirit makes intercession even through our groanings.

Speaking in tongues or praying emotionally ecstatic meaningless syllables is not what Paul is talking about in Romans 8:26. These are not ecstatic cries or tongues or any special language that is mentioned here. Paul specifically says that the praying of the Spirit is too deep for words, or even utterance. It is unuttered; it cannot be expressed. It is felt only in the heart, and it never comes to the surface of the lips. It never can be expressed. In other words, these are those deep yearnings of the soul that all of us feel at times for more of God for ourselves, or for someone else. This is why we often call it "a burden." It is a burden "too deep for words."

This word is found here only in the New Testament. These groanings are inexpressible, "unspoken," or "unutterable." They are without words. Perhaps it is impossible to put them into words.

Jesus prayed with this same kind of intense burden for a lost world in the Garden of Gethsemane. "Not my will, Thy will be done." When we pray in the Spirit, we have that same intense desire of the soul. We love for the will of God to be done in our lives.

The Holy Spirit does the same thing for us.
Where do you groan today? Where do you feel the sting of sin, or the hurt of a broken relationship? Where is the pain of an empty chair at your supper table, or the crushing defeat of loneliness? Is there the guilt of a conscience that refuses to be quieted, or the disappointment of unfaithfulness? What is the "groan" or "burden" or "weakness" you face today?

Can you identify with Paul in Second Corinthians 4:7–12? In part he says, "we have this treasure in earthen vessels, so that the surpassing greatness of the power will be of God and not from ourselves; we are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not despairing; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed; always carrying about in the body the dying of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are constantly being delivered over to death for Jesus’ sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So death works in us, but life in you."

Pounds paraphrase reads: We possess this priceless treasure of the fragrance of the Gospel in these old fragile clay pots in order that the exceeding greatness of the power of God may be manifest, as coming from God and not from ourselves. We are hard pressed on every side with troubles all around us, but we are not crushed, we still have breathing room. We are perplexed and bewildered, but not despairing. We are hunted down by persecutors, but not forsaken by the Lord. We are always getting knocked down, but never a knockout.

You say "Life isn't fair." "That's not what I want out of my life."

We want to be glazed and polished, painted, displayed and put on some safe shelf. But that's not God's way of producing fragrance.

God's way of producing His fragrance is to take the pot off the shelf, break it and pour out the fragrance.

A. W. Tozer said, "It is doubtful God can bless any man greatly until He has hurt him deeply." Or as Alan Redpath once said: "When God wants to do an impossible task he takes an impossible man and crushes him."

How is the pot? Where is your weakness today? Do you feel squeezed in? Sickness, disease, heartache, disappointment, disaster, some crushing experience, tears, death, shadow of death . . . (v. 11 is a commentary on v. 10).

For Paul it meant, "afflicted . . . perplexed . . . persecuted . . . struck down." That was the process God used to release the fragrance in Paul's life. But please keep in mind Paul was not alone in this process. God was at work in Him. How did He do it?

In Romans 8:26, the Apostle Paul writes, "the Spirit helps our weakness." He was there with Paul in the afflictions, perplexities, persecutions and weaknesses.

Helps means to lend a hand together, at the same time with one, to help, to come to the aid of someone. That is the word of the Encourager, the Paraklete. A. T. Robertson said, "Here beautifully Paul pictures the Holy Spirit taking hold at our side at the very time of our weakness . . . and before too late."

The beautiful thing is His power is perfected in our weaknesses. When we die, He lives. When we lose, He wins. When we are weak, He is strong. When we are dependent, He is powerful. This is what God was doing in Paul. He does the same in us as we yield to Him. It is walking and praying in the Spirit.

Paul reminds us we don't know how to pray. Like Jesus' disciples we come to the Lord asking Him to teach us to pray. Paying is hard work. It is difficult for most of us. It takes thought, concentration and commitment. Moreover, we are not always good judges of that for which we should be praying. We ask amiss. We ask for the wrong things. I am afraid we often come to the Father asking for things that displease Him. We pray for things unprofitable for us in our walk with Him. Paul prayed intensely on three occasions for the thorn to be removed (2 Cor. 12:7–9). God did not remove the thorn. He gave Paul grace to grow trough the thorns in his life. In the process of suffering, Paul grew in the likeness of Christ.

We do not know what is best for us because we do not have God's overall perspective of what He is doing, not only in our lives, but also in the lives of those about us who in one way or another are impacted by our lives. There are always those who are silently watching us and observing how we live the Christian life. They are influenced by how we handle our weaknesses. Do they see us as instruments of God's grace? From our human perspective, we don't always see how God is using our situations to impact others for His good. Our perspective of our circumstances radically changes when we get eternity into the picture.

Isn't it wonderful to know that when we do not know how to pray or what to do the Holy Spirit comes to our aid?

I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of Romans 8:26.
An “utterance” is indeed an AUDIBLE expression….as are “groanings.”
These AUDIBLE expressions OF THE SPIRIT….THROUGH US….cannot be understood by our minds.
If we know that God, and thus His Holy Spirit, does nothing without purpose…..then we must conclude that these “groanings” and “utterances” and “heavenly languages” (if they come from the Spirit) MUST have purpose and meaning. Thus, tongues…..of which Paul clearly mentions 4 different kinds or manifestations in scripture.
Tongues are real. Tongues ARE for born-again believers today. Many (most) believers simply won’t yield to the Holy Spirit enough to experience it. Tongues have not ceased and to claim they have simply does not line up with God’s Word. Tongues encompass more than just the spiritual gift, which is “divers tongues,” and must be accompanied by the gift of “interpretation.”
Have a blessed day.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

may i ask,

Many (most) believers simply won’t yield to the Holy Spirit

how then those "many (most)" can either be "believers" or considered such?

Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

 

[vhusley]

Greetings,

may i ask,



how then those "many (most)" can either be "believers" or considered such?

Jesus is Lord


Bless you ....><>

Because there is a difference between receiving the Holy Spirit (through your new birth experience)……and yielding to the Holy Spirit’s operation in and through you.


Do you believe it’s is possible to resist or to quench the Holy Spirit that resides within us?
Why do you think the Apostle Paul speaks to the churches so often on the topic of “the flesh vs the Spirit”?


Eph 4:30
1 Thess 5:19
Romans 1:18-21
Romans 8:4-17
Galatians 5:16-26
Romans 7:18 and so on…

Peter and Luke address it:
1 Peter 2:11
Acts 7:51

and even Jesus Himself speaks to it in
Matthew 26:41

 

[Br. Bear]

so a believer won't yield to their belief? Where then is the believing? Surely one who does not believe is not a believer?

do you follow?


Bless you ....><>

 

[Samson2020]

so a believer won't yield to their belief? Where then is the believing? Surely one who does not believe is not a believer?

do you follow?


Bless you ....><>

Unless the believer believes He/She is not going to be accepted within the group anymore because they have something the rest do not. That being the actual Spirit and the various gifts
that come with having it.
They can and will suppress the guiding of the Spirit to be with who they choose.
The Spirit reveals the deep things of God and causes separation from the group and some just cannot handle the separation.

In my own experience I was never instructed about praying in tongues because we went to a Baptist facility growing up and they never discussed it. Church of Christ preaches against it,
and at times would call you a devil for having the ability to do so.
Once the infilling actually came and the tongues with it I was sent by the Spirit to a Pentecostal facility for about a year to be with others who had the Spirit. But over that time the Spirit
kept revealing things that they taught contrary to the word which eventually caused a decision, stay with the group or go with the Spirit. That decision was easy as it was just another
obstacle in the overcoming of religion. And the HIdden Manna that came after that was a feast to say the least. They booted me once and I stayed away for some time, then the place was shuttered, time past and another "preacher" started it back up. The Spirit sent me back in again only for a day and that to make an effort to shed light on the falseness of what the new guy
was teaching. Again booted and no regrets as it was just an assignment. Facility shuttered again.

The point being that some will quench the Spirit to stay with those whom they grew up with in "church" they will choose the bake sales and group interaction over the teaching of
the comforter. They are too engrained in the being seen as "NORMAL" to those around them and want nothing of the separation, suffering, back biting, and scoffing that comes with
not being part of the group any longer. "Your weird", "He needs to be on meds", "You have a devil" sounds kinda like what they said about Jesus and thats not easy for a new born
REAL Christian to handle.
If one can be drawn back into the world they can also be drawn back into the religion they were in just as easily.