Pre Tribulation rapture

[Eric E Stahl]

Pre Tribulation rapture

The bride, the lamb’s wife, which is the church, is in the new Jerusalem before the last half of the tribulation begins and the seven last vials of plagues are poured out.


Revelation 21:9-11
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 

[Brighthouse]

Humm bro,I am never sure about tribulation as being this late,for by this time the devil is already cast into the lake of fire.( rev 20:10) I figure it this way myself,whatever tribulation one chooses to believe in,they all end at rev 13:8 From this point on, no believer is on the earth. An Appeal is made by the Lord in heaven in rev 18:4-8 but no one obeys this appeal. A brother in my church said boy i sure hope i will not take the mark,well by this time all believers are gone!( rev 13:15-16) that is why the word says he caused ALL to take the mark. by this point you never hear of the church again, or believers. Just something for you to consider is all brother!

 

[DHC]

Humm bro,I am never sure about tribulation as being this late,for by this time the devil is already cast into the lake of fire.( rev 20:10) I figure it this way myself,whatever tribulation one chooses to believe in,they all end at rev 13:8 From this point on, no believer is on the earth. An Appeal is made by the Lord in heaven in rev 18:4-8 but no one obeys this appeal. A brother in my church said boy i sure hope i will not take the mark,well by this time all believers are gone!( rev 13:15-16) that is why the word says he caused ALL to take the mark. by this point you never hear of the church again, or believers. Just something for you to consider is all brother!

Hello Brighthouse.

Hope your well.

Just wondering how you reconcile the following line in your eschatology?

Revelations 14
13 And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!

 

[Brighthouse]

Hi DHC From verse 2 and 3 then after all is spoken please do notice verse 13, for all this is taking place in heaven to me bro. What makes this book so cool to me,is that you get play by play,in both heaven and earth at the same time!! LOL Notice then we get play by play as an angel goes to earth 14-16 hehe The second coming arrives then in Chapter 19 As Jesus arrives heaven rejoices as well! Love verse 6 here, great song to in Church we sing to this verse. hehe Hallelujah! for the Lord our God the Almighty reigns!

What is really wild here,is that as Jesus comes back, many things are going on in heaven as well! verse 19:11 now what i do not understand is with Jesus back why after so long would he bind the enemy only to release him again for a time? 20:1-3 then released verse 7 to surrounded the camp,( not city!! City comes in Chapter 21!) only to become judged and finally done for! verse 10 oh well!! The only point i was looking for others to consider is that after rev 13:8 until Jesus comes back in Chapter 19 there are no believers on the earth I can see. Which to me is just interesting. hehe

 

[RJ]

Pre-Tribulation Rapture:
I will either see you here or I will see you up there or I will see you in the air!

 

[Travis]

1Thessalonians 4 (ESV
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
​

That word there in verse 17, ἁρπαγησόμεθα (Greek), harpazo (transliteration of root), "caught up," (English), is the same word we get the word Rapture from, except from the Latin translation. The latin translation of that same word in this case is "Rapiemur," which is a different form of the same verb in Latin, which elsewhere occurs as "rapturo " I believe this Latin word, is where we get the English term rapture.

I say all that to say this, I don't think the harpazo/rapturo/catching up of the church, is going to happen until the dead (asleep) in Christ rise first. So whenever the resurrection of the dead in Christ is, I think the rapture is right afterwords, based on 1 Thessalonians 4.

Also, This corresponds with the last trumpet. Whenever or whatever that last trumpet is.

1 Corinthians 15 ESV
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
​

Grace to you,

Travis

 

[Frony111]

ESV
13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. 14 For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. 15 For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we will always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore encourage one another with these words.
​

That word there in verse 17, ἁρπαγησόμεθα (Greek), harpazo (transliteration of root), "caught up," (English), is the same word we get the word Rapture from, except from the Latin translation. The latin translation of that same word in this case is "Rapiemur," which is a different form of the same verb in Latin, which elsewhere occurs as "rapturo " I believe this Latin word, is where we get the English term rapture.

I say all that to say this, I don't think the harpazo/rapturo/catching up of the church, is going to happen until the dead (asleep) in Christ rise first. So whenever the resurrection of the dead in Christ is, I think the rapture is right afterwords, based on .

Also, This corresponds with the last trumpet. Whenever or whatever that last trumpet is.

ESV
51 Behold! I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed. 53 For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality. 54 When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." 55 "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ. 58 Therefore, my beloved brothers, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that in the Lord your labor is not in vain.
​

Grace to you,

Travis

I am a fairly new student of the bible so Im just trying to understand the rapture. How I see 1st thes chpt.4 starting with vs 13 Paul is talking about people that have died if we believe Christ rose from the dead meaning Christians.. those who are asleep meaning those that have passed ..are with him. To be absent from this body is to be present with the Lord2nd cor.chpt 5 vs 7-8 so be comforted that your loved ones who have died are not laying out in some hole in the groundthat is why we who are alive and remain at his return cannot proceed them because they are already gone..The last trump is the 7th .. When Christ returns we shall be changed into our spiritual bodies..But at the sixth trump satin is cast from heaven 6seal6 trump 6vial.. Look at Paul's 2nd letter to the Thessalonians chpt 2 tells us about Christ's return and that it will not happen until the son of perdition meaning Satan stands in the holy place claiming to be God.. He comes in peacefully and prosperouslyI think that is why the whole world hoards after him.. because most people think it's going to be all destruction and war.. that's why God has shorten the time because of the elects sake else no flesh would survive that is how convincing he is because if all Christians are gone who is God going to use for a testimony for the Holy Spirit to speak through when they are delivered up.. And why wouldbrother betray brother and parent betray child to death.. Death is satin ...but if you think it is Jesus and your child doesn't you would definitely want to convert your child to be saved..Just something to think about like I said I'm a fairly new student definitely no scholar

 

[Strypes]

The last trump is the 7th ..

Where in the Bible does it say that? It doesn't.

Everything you said up to this point is true. But after this everything is not true.

There are seven seals and seven viles/bowls and seven trumpets in the Book of Revelation. They for the most part are the catalyst for specific aspects of God's wrath. The seventh trumpet is the last of these trumpets but it is not "THE last trump".

Let me explain a bit..

There is a Jewish Feast called the Feast of TRUMPETS.

The main part of this celebration is the blowing of trumpets. If you want to know the specifics please google it and you can learn exactly how many of each kind etc. but I am going to explain from my memory and may not have the numbers exact.

There are several kinds of trumpet blast. One is a series of short choppy sounds. One is a smooth short blast and another I don't quite remember and these three are blown in a particular order until each were blown so many times each or something like that until there had been 99 blast of the trumpet....Then one more trumpet is blown. It is the 100th and it is different and is called "THE LAST TRUMP". The blast is loud and long and intensifies as it is sounded. It is also called "Victory".


So drop the assumption that the seventh trump of Revelation is "The Last Trump" and read Revelation a fresh. Take note of the Trumpet that sounds when John is taken up into heaven (I think it might be chapter 4 or 5) and also notice that The Church is not mentioned again until near the very end.

There is no mention of the Church whist the seven trumpets are sounded or when the seven bowls are emptied or when seals are broken...

Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand. He will help you.

 

[Strypes]

that's why God has shorten the time because of the elects sake

All the born again believers will be with Jesus when He comes for His Bride. We are not destined for God's Wrath.

The "Elect" are those that know enough about the Bible or knew a Born Again Believer prior to Jesus coming for His Bride. and at least 144000 Jews that finally "Get it" and realize they were wrong about God and refuse to take the mark of the beast.

 

[Frony111]

All the born again believers will be with Jesus when He comes for His Bride. We are not destined for God's Wrath.

The "Elect" are those that know enough about the Bible or knew a Born Again Believer prior to Jesus coming for His Bride. and at least 144000 Jews that finally "Get it" and realize they were wrong about God and refuse to take the mark of the beast.

What does the word again mean?

 

[Frony111]

Where in the Bible does it say that? It doesn't.

Everything you said up to this point is true. But after this everything is not true.

There are seven seals and seven viles/bowls and seven trumpets in the Book of Revelation. They for the most part are the catalyst for specific aspects of God's wrath. The seventh trumpet is the last of these trumpets but it is not "THE last trump".

Let me explain a bit..

There is a Jewish Feast called the Feast of TRUMPETS.

The main part of this celebration is the blowing of trumpets. If you want to know the specifics please google it and you can learn exactly how many of each kind etc. but I am going to explain from my memory and may not have the numbers exact.

There are several kinds of trumpet blast. One is a series of short choppy sounds. One is a smooth short blast and another I don't quite remember and these three are blown in a particular order until each were blown so many times each or something like that until there had been 99 blast of the trumpet....Then one more trumpet is blown. It is the 100th and it is different and is called "THE LAST TRUMP". The blast is loud and long and intensifies as it is sounded. It is also called "Victory".


So drop the assumption that the seventh trump of Revelation is "The Last Trump" and read Revelation a fresh. Take note of the Trumpet that sounds when John is taken up into heaven (I think it might be chapter 4 or 5) and also notice that The Church is not mentioned again until near the very end.

There is no mention of the Church whist the seven trumpets are sounded or when the seven bowls are emptied or when seals are broken...

Pray and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand. He will help you.

In 2thess chpt 2 if this is false what is this saying . tnx for your help

 

[Strypes]

if all Christians are gone who is God going to use for a testimony

The Elect and the 144000 Jews and the Two Prophets.

 

[Strypes]

Two Prophets.

I think they are Moses (representing The Law) and Elijah (representing the Prophets). We don't really know exactly who they are as it could be Elijah and Enoch.

The reason some believe they are Elijah and Enoch is because they never died.

 

[Frony111]

The Elect and the 144000 Jews and the Two Prophets.

And all other Christians are raptures before this?

 

[Strypes]

What does the word again mean?

Jesus explains it to Nicodemus in John Chapter 3.

My summery would be .. We are born of flesh. We exist in flesh. Our physical being is flesh.

Jesus says that we must be born "AGAIN" of the Spirit of God.

 

[Strypes]

And all other Christians are raptures before this?

Yes.

Do you know anything about Jewish wedding traditions?

 

[Frony111]

Yes.

Do you know anything about Jewish wedding traditions?

No can you explain..

 

[Strypes]

No can you explain..

Jesus was Jewish and the folks Jesus was talking to were Jewish. He did not have to explain some things to them because they were Jewish and they already understood their Wedding customs.

In John Chapter 14, Jesus says...

" "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also"

In Jewish customs, when a Man and Woman want to get married they first are "betrothed" or "engaged". The man would then go and prepare a place (a home) usually on his father's land. The home is not considered "ready" to receive the Bride until the Father approves of it. Once the father approves of the "place" and all the preparations are complete, THEN the Bridegroom can go get his bride.

When Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you", His disciples immediately understood the wedding reference,

Is this starting to make sense to you?

 

[Strypes]

Is this starting to make sense to you?

I hope so because I need to go but I want you to consider the context and I will leave you with this thought...

It is my belief that at the appointed time when God gives the "go ahead", Jesus (The Bridegroom) will come for His Bride (the Church) ... We will go out to meet Him (rapture) and we will be taken to the "Prepared Place" where we will be with Jesus as God the Father pours out His wrath upon the earth.

 

[Frony111]

Jesus was Jewish and the folks Jesus was talking to were Jewish. He did not have to explain some things to them because they were Jewish and they already understood their Wedding customs.

In John Chapter 14, Jesus says...

" "Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. 2 In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also"

In Jewish customs, when a Man and Woman want to get married they first are "betrothed" or "engaged". The man would then go and prepare a place (a home) usually on his father's land. The home is not considered "ready" to receive the Bride until the Father approves of it. Once the father approves of the "place" and all the preparations are complete, THEN the Bridegroom can go get his bride.

When Jesus said "I go to prepare a place for you", His disciples immediately understood the wedding reference,

Is this starting to make sense to you?

Yes thanks for the explanation.. Who do you think the elect are.? I agree about the 2 witnesses being moses and Elijah I think God took Moses also thou it is not written but he did show up With Christ and Elijah on the mount of transfiguration.. Christ was jewish ... From the tribe of Judea but also a from the tribe of Levi right?