Pre Tribulation rapture

[NoHype]

I am going to ask you one last time to leave me out of your fictitious slander amd move on to something else or I will only be forced to report you to the administrator!

What I said to you still stands, and I could care less if you report me to the administrator, as if you thought you have some kind of power over me. God's Word as written isn't very popular, and most forums don't recognize a just rebuke towards one who has strayed too far away from God's Holy Writ, so if that's what kind of forum this one is here, it wouldn't be any great loss at all.

 

[NoHype]

NoHype you ask how I would know biblical evidence .
I know because of the Spirit that the Lord has giving me and what's wrote in the scriptures without saying this means something it doesn't like u seem to do.

My remark was because obviously you hadn't really looked at that Isaiah 25 Scripture where Apostle Paul was pulling from in 1 Cor.15. Don't feel alone, not that many have studied it, and like you, many who do look at it pass it off most of the time as irrelevant.

I know what Paul was saying in Cor.15 it was the believers .
And there is a resurrection of the just and unjust but nowhere in scriptures is it the same day like you have said. So in St John 5:28-29 where you thing it is saying its the same day. Its not saying this is the same day it says there a resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation.

Oh, but our Lord Jesus DID show with that John 5:28-29 Scripture BOTH types of "resurrection" occur at the SAME timing, or what didn't you understand about the time when ALL those in the graves shall hear His voice and they all come forth to their specific resurrection, both the just and the wicked?

So when is this resurrection of damnation its when they compass the camp of the saints. After the 1000 years Rev20:5 like I said the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

Where did you get that underlined idea brother? If you will go back up in Rev.20, you should have noticed those who come up against the "camp of the saints" on earth when Satan leads them after the thousand years, have already... been there all through Christ's thousand years reign, as the "nations". How could you miss that? See also Zech.14:16 forward.

So how do you explain the fowls eating the flesh of men when the Lord comes back in Rev19:18and verse 21

That is especially about the valley of Hamongog and the Armageddon event on the last day of this world. That's a destruction for that army that comes out of the northern quarters upon Jerusalem for the last day at our Lord Jesus' second coming. See Ezek.38 & 39.

And as you posted in Isaiah25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo,this is (our) God; (we) have waited for him, and he will save (us):this is the Lord; ( we )have waited for him, (we) will be glad and rejoice in his (salvation).
This is not the wicked they have not waited for the Lord, they will not be glad and rejoice neither, and they don't have salvation.
Isaiah25:8 when God wipes away tears from all faces is not the wicked either. Cause when he does this only the believers are left this is after the wicked are cast in the lake of fire.Rev21:4 then he wipes away their tears.

That part is about Christ's elect saying that, as I said. I never said the wicked will say that, but that the wicked will know who Jesus is in that time, and will bow the knee as written, even like our Lord Jesus said in Rev.3:9. During His thousand years reign, He will wipe the rebuke of His people off the earth as written there; doesn't mean rebuke of the wicked will be wiped too, and you will know that if you keep studying this matter in both OT and NT. As for keying on that idea of tears being wiped away, see Rev.7:17 which is about the "great multitude" of believing Gentiles once Jesus returns. It does not wait for the end of the thousand years. Yet, the wicked will stand in judgment throughout that whole thousand years reign, so they're not going to be in the same spiritual shape as His Church for that time (see also Ezek.44).

So you got to know in scripture when it comes to prophecy from one verse to another could be a different time period. Go look at the prophecy on Jesus they may be only one single verse in a chapter or they could be more it does not have to tie in with verse before or after to be prophecy.

My understanding of this is per both... OT and NT prophecy in the mind. Leaving either one out will miss the proper understanding of those events in that time.

And the vail that you say is flesh, that's not what this is saying. Look in 2 Cor 3:13-16 this vail is blindness, when he comes back the veil will removed, cause everyone will see and know who is Lord of lords and King of kings. This vail is blindness. But please tell me how fowls eat a spiritual body.

Oh, but the change to the "spiritual body" per Paul in 1 Cor.15 is exactly the meaning, because that vail and covering is linked to the death swallowed up in victory idea, especially in 1 Cor.15 where Paul taught it in depth. The problem is how men's tradition keep interpreting Paul's teaching of the change from a body of "corruption" to a body of "incorruption" as if it only... happens for Christ's elect. What our Lord Jesus said in John 5:28-29 about the "resurrection of damnation", and in The Gospel Books about the wicked being cast to the "outer darkness" after Christ's coming, reveals this matter plainly, for those who don't allow men's traditions to sway them away from it.

Here's a Revelation Scripture to consider on this matter also...

Rev.22
14 Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

15For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Did you not know that the wicked will still be here among us when that "tree of life" is manifested upon the earth during Christ's thousand years? Even though that is given in Rev.22, it is actually Rev.20 "thousand years" timing. That is the "outer darkness" our Lord Jesus spoke of the wicked being cast to at His coming. So you say there is no proof of the "resurrection of damnation" existing during Christ's time of reign of Rev.20, yet there it is. The question is whether or not you will accept that as written, or continue with the tradition of men you've allowed to be cemented in your mind that the "resurrection of damnation" occurs after Christ's thousand years reign.

 

[NoHype]

Acts 24
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

That was Apostle Paul speaking there. Why would he proclaim that HOPE of a resurrection for the "unjust" also, if... the "resurrection of damnation" is only for the wicked being raised at the end of Christ's thousand years just to be sent to the "lake of fire"?

Are we so hateful of the wicked that we want them to be destroyed as soon as possible, not allowing our Heavenly Father and His Son to handle judgment of them in His Own time and way? I want the new heavens and new earth to come just as quickly as any other believer in Christ Jesus. But I recall Apostle Peter telling us that The LORD is longsuffering, not wishing for anyone to perish (2 Pet.3).

The wicked (or "unjust") are not going to still be in flesh bodies, nor in graves when our Lord Jesus returns to begin His thousand years reign on earth with His elect of the "first resurrection". They will be outside the gates of the holy city on earth, like our Lord Jesus revealed in Rev.22:14-15. And per Ezekiel 47, God's River of the waters of life will be manifested on earth in the Middle East during that time of the thousand years, along with Ezekiel's temple.

Someone on another thread brought up the matter of believers our Lord Jesus shuts the door upon at His coming, Him saying He never knew them. Even the unprofitable servant of His, He said will be cast to the "outer darkness" and have their part with the wicked. In Matt.25 He revealed at His coming He will separate His sheep from the goats (wicked).

Per Isaiah 29, those who erred in spirit will come to understanding during Christ's thousand years reign, and those who murmured shall learn doctrine. Thus Christ's thousand years is going to be a time of teaching for His elect. This is why Jesus told His elect of the Church of Philadelphia that He will make those of the "synagogue of Satan" to come bow at their feet (Rev.3). This is the meaning of His having "a rod of iron" to rule over the nations, and promised His elect they would have that rod over the nations also in that time.

Now let's consider that "synagogue of Satan" being made to bow before the feet of His elect like He said. That is not God at His Great White Throne Judgment they are bowing to in that timing of Rev.3:9, they are bowing at the feet of Christ's elect priests and kings during the thousand years. And what greater wicked (or "unjust") are there on earth against Christ than that "synagogue of Satan"? So even right there, we have another evidence of the "resurrection of damnation" being manifest DURING Christ's thousand years reign, and not only after the thousand years.

 

[RJ]

What I said to you still stands, and I could care less if you report me to the administrator, as if you thought you have some kind of power over me. God's Word as written isn't very popular, and most forums don't recognize a just rebuke towards one who has strayed too far away from God's Holy Writ, so if that's what kind of forum this one is here, it wouldn't be any great loss at all.

I have never, not once, spread melicious lies about you or called you out about your Christianity. But, that has all changed, your just like a false prophet to me that needs to be avoided. As of this post, I will but continue to pray for you!
Nohype , your appear to be really knowledgeable but so do evil spirits. I find you spritually weak minded and very immature.

No, I will leave the reporting up to someone else. Just keep spreading lies and untruths and the Administrator will catch up to you soon enough. I notice that your profile stated that you where "Born Again". I remember mine very well and go back to it often. As far as you are concerned, I would really like to know the circumstance surrounding that rebirth, you don't appear to be regenerated to me!

 

[NoHype]

And yet still, in Rev.20 there is no mention of death of the flesh.

The type of death that is... mentioned, is called the "second death", and is defined as being cast into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's thousand years reign. And we are told those of the "first resurrection" only are not subject to that "second death".

Now if one believes the false tradition that the 'resurrection' means one's decayed flesh remains in the ground is somehow raised to a new flesh body state, that... is where many are going wrong in understanding the Rev.20 timing. Not only that, but that kind of thinking means to not have understood what our brother Apostle Paul was teaching about the 'resurrection' in 1 Corinthians 15, in detail.

Here's some of the problems created by a fleshy thinking of Rev.20:

1. Is there really going to be a group of flesh people walking around on earth while Christ's elect are in the "spiritual body" among their presence on earth? If the resurrection of life is to a new flesh body, then why did Apostle Paul teach that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God? Why didn't he just say 'new flesh body' instead of the "spiritual body" for the resurrection in 1 Cor.15? or instead of "not that body that shall be", but a new flesh body?


1 Cor.15
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?

36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him, and to every seed his own body.

What kind... of body is the resurrection, Paul asks? Since the "resurrection of damnation" our Lord Jesus mentioned in John 5:28-28 is a 'resurrection', THIS also applies what Paul is teaching here, as he had the hope the "unjust" would be resurrected too, remember?

The resurrection body is not that body that is 'sown', nor is the sown body the one that shall be. The sown body here refers to the flesh type body.


39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.

40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

Celestial bodies are the heavenly bodies, like the sun, moon, planets, and stars. They have their own kind of body for our material dimension. We have flesh bodies in this material dimension.

So likewise, the resurrection involves a specific type of body, it's own type order that God gave it.


42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Our spirit with soul is sown into a body of corruption, our flesh body. But it is raised in incorruption, to the "spiritual body" type, not another flesh type body. The "natural body" represents our flesh body of today's world. The "spiritual body" is the body type of the resurrection in the world to come. Notice Paul says, "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" in the present tense (meaning even right now). That "spiritual body" we already have, it's made up of our spirit inside our flesh body.



45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


OK, so does this apply to all flesh people born on earth, or just Christ's elect? It applies to... ALL... born in the flesh, including the "unjust". Just as we have all borne the image of the earthy with a flesh body, we all shall also bear the image of the heavenly with our spiritual body, the wicked included, since they were born in the flesh also. There is no such thing as a resurrection to a new flesh body being taught here by Paul. It's also very important to not equate this heavenly image to some automatic Salvation idea, because even Satan and his angels have the spiritual body type, and we know Salvation is never reserved for him and his angels. But to inherit God's Kingdom, one must have this body of incorruption, the "spiritual body".

So what's the difference with the wicked if they will bear the image of the heavenly also, which is exactly what the idea of 'resurrection' means??? Paul eventually gets to that point, but in the Greek later on here.


51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Paul says "we shall all be changed." Lot of brethren enjoy applying that change only to Christ's Church, when Paul did not make that definite here.


52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

In verse 52, just which "dead" is Paul speaking of? Is he speaking of those who died in Christ Jesus only? No! There is nothing here about the wicked dead being left in graves only to be resurrected at the end of Christ's thousand years reign. That is assumed by men's traditions on this. On that "last trump", the "dead shall be raised incorruptible", stop. Then Paul says "and we shall be changed". What group is Paul referring to specifically with that "and we shall be changed" phrase?

Well, if you study 1 Thess.4 more closely, you will discover that our Lord Jesus when He comes, Paul says He will bring the "asleep" saints with Him, and those of us still alive on earth at that moment will be "caught up" with Him and them. Does this mean only the dead of Christ's Church are raised on that day? No, just as this does not mean ONLY us still alive on earth at His coming are "changed" in moment, "at the twinkling of an eye".

This is where the Pre-trib Rapture theories from men's traditions originate, wrongly thinking of a selective rapture of Christ's Church off the earth while the wicked are 'left behind'. That is not what... brother Paul was teaching there. The change on that day to the "spiritual body" type, i.e, the resurrection, will occur for all, including the wicked.


53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


This verse is one of the keys to understand this. Those are 2 conditions that must be met to have eternal Life in Christ at the resurrection of the dead.

The wicked will only be given the first conditional change, a change to the "spiritual body" type, the "image of the heavenly". That is what the resurrection for them is, i.e., the "resurrection of damnation" our Lord Jesus taught in John 5:28-29.

Notice the second required condition is that "this mortal must put on immortality." Those are 4 separate word meanings in the Greek of that 53rd verse. The wicked when raised to their "resurrection of damnation" will still have a mortal soul that is still liable to perish at the "second death". In their spirit... they are still dead to Christ even though raised to the incorruptible body type. That is how the wicked of the "synagogue of Satan" will bow the knee at the feet of Christ's elect per the Rev.3:9 Scripture for Christ's thousand years future reign. This is why Rev.20 mentions only the "second death" remaining for that time, and not flesh death of a flesh body. The "second death" is the casting of one's liable to die spirit with soul into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years.

 

[norapture]

Nohype I have a question .
The wicked when they get cast in the lake of fire, do they burn up and are just no more, or are they in torment forever.

 

[NoHype]

Nohype I have a question .
The wicked when they get cast in the lake of fire, do they burn up and are just no more, or are they in torment forever.

See Psalms 37.

 

[Travis]

Nohype I have a question .
The wicked when they get cast in the lake of fire, do they burn up and are just no more, or are they in torment forever.

See Psalms 37.

I don't see much in psalms chapter 37 to form a complete doctrine regarding the future destiny of unbelievers.

Not unless one believes that they are just annihilated and cease to exist, and tries to use something like verse 10

For l yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.​

to prove some pet doctrine one holds to or something.

I think norapture asked a pretty good question. Why don't you be forthcoming and tell us exactly what you believe? No reason to hide it right?

Travis

 

[norapture]

NoHype the question still stands.
But after reading Psalms 37, it is a contradiction to what you said about the wicked being changed, in the first resurrection, and living thousand year reign here on earth.
So I can only assume that when Paul said (we all) shall be changed. Then you believe he was talking to unbelievers in all scripture when he use the term ( we).
So in 1cor1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, (TO THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus, called to SAINTS, with all that in every place CALL upon the name of JESUS CHRIST our Lord, both (THEIRS and OURS).

We can see here that Paul isn't talking to the wicked in his letter. And when he does he refers to them here as THEIRS and believers as OURS. For Christ is our (saints) Lord and also theirs(wicked) the wicked is never counted with just.

 

[NoHype]

I don't see much in psalms chapter 37 to form a complete doctrine regarding the future destiny of unbelievers.

Not unless one believes that they are just annihilated and cease to exist, and tries to use something like verse 10

For l yet a little while and the wicked shall be no more;
Indeed, you will look carefully for his place,
But it shall be no more.​

to prove some pet doctrine one holds to or something.

I think norapture asked a pretty good question. Why don't you be forthcoming and tell us exactly what you believe? No reason to hide it right?

Travis

So you think what Ps.37 says there about their being no more is some "pet doctrine"?

You all make your own decision on the matter, since all you appear to want to do is deny Scripture as written.

 

[NoHype]

NoHype the question still stands.
But after reading Psalms 37, it is a contradiction to what you said about the wicked being changed, in the first resurrection, and living thousand year reign here on earth.

How is that a contradiction when the "lake of fire" event of Rev.20 doesn't occur until AFTER... the "thousand years" is over? I think you're the one creating a contradiction that simply does not exist.

So I can only assume that when Paul said (we all) shall be changed. Then you believe he was talking to unbelievers in all scripture when he use the term ( we).
So in 1cor1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, (TO THEM THAT ARE SANCTIFIED in Christ Jesus, called to SAINTS, with all that in every place CALL upon the name of JESUS CHRIST our Lord, both (THEIRS and OURS).

We can see here that Paul isn't talking to the wicked in his letter. And when he does he refers to them here as THEIRS and believers as OURS. For Christ is our (saints) Lord and also theirs(wicked) the wicked is never counted with just.

So now because an opening salutation to brethren by Apostle Paul in his Epistles exists, that means he taught nothing about the wicked in his Epistles??? Now that's a fine joke.

 

[NoHype]

Now for those brethren who truly... want to understand about the "resurrection of damnation" our Lord Jesus taught in John 5:28-29 that He showed will occur on the day of His coming, here is the matter, but you will have to stay focused within Scripture instead of pop doctrines taught in many of the Churches today:

The meaning of the word "resurrection" means being raised from the dead. And that is what the "resurrection of damnation" is, a specific TYPE of resurrection of the dead, i.e., for the wicked. The "resurrection of life" is a resurrection TYPE for the just. So there are TWO TYPES of 'resurrection' our Lord mentions in His Word, one to His Salvation, and the other unto 'damnation'.

Our Lord Jesus is the pattern of those raised from the dead, not just the believing, but for the unbelieving also, because He showed they will be 'resurrected' from the dead also. The problem of understanding many have is when they hear that word 'resurrection', they think it only means those in Christ Jesus being raised from the dead unto His Salvation Promise. No, there is a resurrection of the unjust also.

The next important matter is the idea of the "dead" mentioned in Revelation 20:5. We are told they lived not again until the thousand years are over, and shown they are subject to the "second death", which is the casting into the "lake of fire" at the end of the thousand years. That "dead" idea has to be interpreted along with other Bible Scripture, and not merely isolated within the Rev.20 chapter.

One of the comparisons to that "dead" idea was given by our Lord Jesus in The Gospel, where He revealed some that refuse His Salvation, i.e., like the scribes and Pharisees that He rebuked, are like whited tombs full of "dead men's bones", and as graves that people walk over unaware. He said that while those scribes and Pharisees were yet alive in their flesh, so what was He pointing to?

In John 4 our Lord Jesus foretold that one's spirit MUST be born again of The Spirit to inherit in His future Kingdom, and that flesh is born of flesh, and spirit is of Spirit, revealing 2 separate operations. So surely I don't have to explain what being 'born again' means for the believer on Christ Jesus. Yet those who refuse Christ Jesus are not... 'born again' by The Spirit, meaning their spirit inside their flesh is still 'dead' being without Christ Jesus. Those are yet dead while still alive on this earth in flesh bodies. It's simply that their spirit with soul inside is spiritually 'dead'.

That means we cannot... apply the flesh death sense to one's spirit inside their flesh being still dead while they're yet alive walking upon the earth, nor with after they have been raised from the dead. To apply a flesh death sense in that is to make a mistake in crossing over between the two separate operations of flesh vs. spirit.

Thus the mistake many make with thinking 'resurrection' means a new flesh body, that is error against the Scriptures like John 4 that our Lord Jesus showed, and 1 Cor.15 where Apostle Paul gave in detail what kind of body the resurrection is.

Applying the 'resurrection' that Apostle Paul covered in 1 Cor.15 ONLY... to believers on Christ Jesus is false, simply because Paul understood there's to be a resurrection of the "unjust" also (Acts 24:15).

I have already given in detail, what Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 about the type of body the resurrection is. It is a "spiritual body", not a flesh body, as he stated there that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, neither does corruption inherit incorruption. The mere fact that Scripture reveals a resurrection for the damned also means they too... will be given that "spiritual body" type, but their spirit will still be in a liable to perish condition, being without Christ's covering.

The resurrection of damnation are... those "dead" of Rev.20:5 we are told lived not again until the thousand years is over. They are the nations without Christ Jesus dwelling outside the "camp of the saints" on earth for that time. Their dwelling Jesus called the "outer darkness" in The Gospel, and in Rev.22:14-15 He shows them dwelling outside the gates of the holy city during His thousand years reign with His elect. Their still being 'dead' is in regards to their spirit still being in a liable to perish condition later.

The reason why there will be that "resurrection of damnation" manifested during Christ's thousand years reign is so they can bow to Christ Jesus as KING and in hope that at least some of them will be saved in that time. The job of Christ's elect in that time is to teach those the difference between the clean and unclean, between wickedness and righteousness (Ezek.44). Per Isaiah 29, those who erred in spirit will come to understanding, and those who murmured will learn doctrine.

Then at the end of the "thousand years", Satan is loosed one final time to go test those. Those of them that follow him for the end will be destroyed by God's consuming fire from Heaven, when they try to go up against the "camp of the saints" (Rev.20). But what about those of them that convert to Christ Jesus during that thousand years, for there will... be some that do that? In other words, those who convert to Christ during that thousand years, when will they be changed and joined to those who belong to Christ as the "first resurrection"???

The inferred resurrection of Rev.20:5 about the "dead" living again after the thousand years, is... about a 2nd inferred resurrection. Since we are shown an ordinal "first" within "first resurrection", that automatically implies at least one more resurrection. And that 2nd inferred resurrection is only for those who convert to The Father and His Son DURING... the thousand years. It will only occur at the end of the thousand years once Satan has done his last testing. It is a resurrection unto LIFE in Christ like the "first resurrection". It is not a resurrection unto damnation, for that one is shown to occur on the day of Christ's return per the John 5:28-29 Scripture.

Therefore, if you believe the implied second resurrection is only about the wicked dead being raised after the thousand years only to go into the lake of fire, then you have missed what Christ's "thousand years" future reign is actually about, i.e., part of God's Plan of Salvation for those whom He blinded (like Israel in part per Paul in Rom.11), and all those who had not yet heard The Gospel to be given opportunity to believe.

 

[norapture]

NoHype Rev20:6 says Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: ( on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now by what you say about the wicked having part in the first resurrection. Then they would have to be blessed and holy and second death have no power over them,and also they would have to be priest to God and Christ and even reign with him.So that means what you say that they would have a second chance to except Christ that none of them would go to the lake of fire, cause it says the second death has no power over them. But why would they need a second chance cause it says blessed and holy are those that has part in the first resurrection.
But HoHype you seem to try and give people a false hope that they can be saved after Christ comes back. This is not the gospel .
St John3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Now we know the wicked would have to be unbelievers cause if not they would be believers, and would already have eternal life.
Cause St John:3:15 says. That whosoever believer in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

And so you try to deceive people into thinking the will have another chance to turn to Christ. That is a false doctrine for today is the day of salvation according to his word which some try to twist.
Rev22:11 He that is unjust,let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man according as his work shall be.

 

[NoHype]

NoHype Rev20:6 says Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: ( on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priest of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Now by what you say about the wicked having part in the first resurrection. Then they would have to be blessed and holy and second death have no power over them,and also they would have to be priest to God and Christ and even reign with him.So that means what you say that they would have a second chance to except Christ that none of them would go to the lake of fire, cause it says the second death has no power over them. But why would they need a second chance cause it says blessed and holy are those that has part in the first resurrection.
But HoHype you seem to try and give people a false hope that they can be saved after Christ comes back. This is not the gospel .
St John3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned; but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Now we know the wicked would have to be unbelievers cause if not they would be believers, and would already have eternal life.
Cause St John:3:15 says. That whosoever believer in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

And so you try to deceive people into thinking the will have another chance to turn to Christ. That is a false doctrine for today is the day of salvation according to his word which some try to twist.
Rev22:11 He that is unjust,let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give to every man according as his work shall be.

Where did I ever say the 'wicked' have part in the "first resurrection"? Find that for me please.

The second inferred... resurrection is not the same one as the "first resurrection". Nor is the second inferred resurrection the "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29, for that one of John 5 is shown by Jesus to occur on the day of His coming when all in the graves shall hear His voice and come forth to their specific resurrection TYPE, and both go through His thousand years reign.

No such thing as a 'second chance'. Those yet to 'hear' The Gospel of Jesus Christ and believe, even in that future time, will be their FIRST chance.

Many have died in this world that never had that first chance. Christ's Millennial reign with His elect will correct that, which is why God revealed through His OT prophets the unjust will be taught, and no one will have to ask their neighbor if they know God, because from the least to the greatest will 'know' Him in that time.

Also per Paul in Romans 11, God put blindness upon "Israel in part" for this present world, causing them to reject our Lord Jesus Christ as Messiah, and because of this they are our enemies against The Gospel. In that future time that blindness will be removed from them, and that will be their FIRST chance to truly 'know' the Gospel Truth about Christ Jesus and believe. Each soul of their own... free will, must in full accountability, make their choice. Many during this present world have not, and will not, have that choice until Christ's future thousand years.

Your thinking is actually from those who don't really believe in the future thousand years reign by our Lord Jesus and His elect priests and kings over the "nations" of Rev.20. Those who think that are the ones who believe all the wicked are destroyed at Christ's second coming or, that the wicked wait it out in the ground to be raised at the end of the thousand years only to be destroyed in the lake of fire.

If the wicked are not existent during Christ's thousand years, then that is to reject The Scripture evidence, like those "nations" outside the "camp of the saints" of Rev.20, and the wicked dwelling outside the gates of the holy city per Rev.22:14-15, which is about the "outer darkness" teaching by our Lord Jesus in The Gospel Books.

So a bit more thinking in line with the Scriptures is warranted for those who heed that Rev.20 and Rev.22 evidence about the existing wicked outside the gates of the city in that time.

Like Apostle Peter said in 2 Peter 3, our Heavenly Father is longsuffering, not wishing for anyone to perish, but for all to come to repentance. But the hope you've been falsely taught by men's doctrines is in a hope that none of the wicked will be turned to Christ Jesus and be saved! That's not the hope our Lord has, nor the hope His Apostles had for the wicked in that time (Acts 24:15). Yet we know some will still reject our Lord Jesus as The Saviour even in that future thousand years timing, and that should make one of His elect feel sad, not joyous. Can't you imagine how our Heavenly Fathers feels with having to destroy one of His children He created for His pleasure?

 

[norapture]

NoHype you said I Rev22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murders, and idolaters, and whosoever lover and maker a lie.
That these are the ones out side the the gates . That will have a chance to except Christ.
But this is what the word says.
Rev21:7-8 He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Verse 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and (all) liars, shall have there part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now the ones that is out side the gate-dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murders, idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maker a lie. (LIARS) where do you think this it at cause Rev20:8 makes it clear to me where they are. Its about being a overcomer in this life by Christ Jesus.

But we read in Rev22:11 it says read this close cause it does not say he that is filthy let him be clean, neither does it say he that is unjust let him become just.
It says--- He that is unjust, let him be unjust ( still) and he which is filthy; let him be filthy( still and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
OK let's break this down where you say Paul was talking to the wicked and believer that they would be changed at the last trump. 1 Thess 4:13-18 cause we know this is the resurrection.
Verse13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, (( brethren)) concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have ((no hope)) .

OK here we can see Paul is talking to the brethren, not the ones with no hope.
Verse14 For if ( we ) believe that Jesus died and rose again , even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
OK who is Paul talking to here the same as he was talking to in verse 13 the brethren, who is he taking about that fell asleep also the brethren that fell asleep in Christ.

Verse15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
OK who is he talking to here! The same as in verse 13 and 14 the brethren , who is asleep here the brethren.
Verse16 -- For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the ((( dead in Christ ))) shall rise first:
So who is rising from the dead here? Does it say the wicked ,,no it says the one who died in Christ.
So he is still talking to the brethren.

Verse17--Then(( we ))which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall ((( we))) ever be with the Lord

OK to make this simple who was we? Was it the wicked also NO.
Cause if he was talking to the wicked here, then that would mean they also would be WITH THE LORD FOREVER. And we know the wicked will not be with Christ forever. So there is no way Paul was talking about everyone left alive when Christ comes back that's not what he was saying he was talking to the ones in Christ for the ones in this resurrection ((shall be forever with the Lord. That why blessed is he that has part in the first resurrection. It as clear as the nose on your face he was talking to the brethren. So you be honest with yourself where did you first hear this doctrine you hold. Cause I know what I believe I heard from no man, no church and I was not taught this by anyone other that the Lord by his scripture.But you hold a doctrine that some churches teach or maybe you read some book wrote by a man. So you ask yourself where did you first here this doctrine then add to it yourself . Don't answer this to me but to your on self .See I wasn't raise in church and neither did I learn from man but from Christ himself.
Make God remove the Veil from your eyes in reading the OT scriptures . God bless you .

 

[NoHype]

NoHype you said I Rev22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murders, and idolaters, and whosoever lover and maker a lie.
That these are the ones out side the the gates . That will have a chance to except Christ.
But this is what the word says.
Rev21:7-8 He that over cometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. Verse 8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and (all) liars, shall have there part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Now the ones that is out side the gate-dogs, sorcerers, whoremongers, murders, idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maker a lie. (LIARS) where do you think this it at cause Rev20:8 makes it clear to me where they are. Its about being a overcomer in this life by Christ Jesus.

Then, do you believe all of the peoples of those Rev.20 "nations" are included in the following?...

Rev.20
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

I, like my brother Apostle Paul, believe in the 'hope' of a resurrection of the unjust in the way he did per Acts 24:15. Do you think that "hope" involves a wishing for them all to perish in the lake of fire?

You might consider what Paul said at the latter part of Romans 11 about the part of Israel which God blinded away from The Gospel of this present world too, and that in conjunction with study of Zechariah 12.

 

[NoHype]

But we read in Rev22:11 it says read this close cause it does not say he that is filthy let him be clean, neither does it say he that is unjust let him become just.
It says--- He that is unjust, let him be unjust ( still) and he which is filthy; let him be filthy( still and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
OK let's break this down where you say Paul was talking to the wicked and believer that they would be changed at the last trump. 1 Thess 4:13-18 cause we know this is the resurrection.
Verse13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, (( brethren)) concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have ((no hope)) .

OK here we can see Paul is talking to the brethren, not the ones with no hope.
Verse14 For if ( we ) believe that Jesus died and rose again , even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
OK who is Paul talking to here the same as he was talking to in verse 13 the brethren, who is he taking about that fell asleep also the brethren that fell asleep in Christ.

In 1 Thess.4, Paul is... specifically teaching that event only for those in Christ Jesus that He gathers to Himself when He comes. So of course that does not include the wicked or "unjust" of Acts 24:15 or "resurrection of damnation" of John 5:28-29.

In 1 Corinthians 15, Paul is not only revealing what will happen to those in Christ on the last day, but also with what kind of body the resurrection is. And the "resurrection of damnation" Jesus taught IS... the 'resurrection' also, but of a different type for the unjust. Nevertheless, it is about the 'resurrection' on the last day also. Some call this means a 'general resurrection', and I agree that would apply with that "resurrection of damnation" phrase from our Lord Jesus in John 5:28-29.

 

[NoHype]

OK to make this simple who was we? Was it the wicked also NO.
Cause if he was talking to the wicked here, then that would mean they also would be WITH THE LORD FOREVER. And we know the wicked will not be with Christ forever. So there is no way Paul was talking about everyone left alive when Christ comes back that's not what he was saying he was talking to the ones in Christ for the ones in this resurrection ((shall be forever with the Lord. That why blessed is he that has part in the first resurrection. It as clear as the nose on your face he was talking to the brethren. So you be honest with yourself where did you first hear this doctrine you hold. Cause I know what I believe I heard from no man, no church and I was not taught this by anyone other that the Lord by his scripture.But you hold a doctrine that some churches teach or maybe you read some book wrote by a man. So you ask yourself where did you first here this doctrine then add to it yourself . Don't answer this to me but to your on self .See I wasn't raise in church and neither did I learn from man but from Christ himself.
Make God remove the Veil from your eyes in reading the OT scriptures . God bless you .

If I were you, I'd be asking our Lord Jesus to remove the blinders of men's doctrines you have on about what all Paul was teaching in 1 Cor.15 in conjunction with Isaiah 25, because that's one of the OT Scriptures where Paul was pulling from when teaching about the resurrection in the 1 Cor.15 chapter.

You obviously believe per a doctrine of men that the word "resurrection" only means a resurrection unto Life through our Lord Jesus Christ, i.e., His Salvation. In reality per what He taught about the "resurrection of damnation" event you are wrong.

So let us go over that John 5:28-29 Scripture again... which is our Lord Jesus' Own Words...

John 5
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

"the hour is coming" = a specific time, not two different times

"in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice" = all in the graves will be raised on that day, which means the unjust dead also, not only the 'asleep' saints will be raised.

"And shall come forth" = the unjust shall come forth also, but the 'asleep' saints our Lord Jesus brings with Him when He comes.

"they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life" = the "first resurrection", the Just.

"and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation" = the wicked, unjust, only, same timing.

So if the wicked dead are raised on that day of Christ's second coming also, what of the wicked still alive on earth at that time? Are we going to have half the wicked walking around still in flesh bodies, while the other half of the wicked are in resurrected bodies, because that "resurrection of damnation" on the day of His coming means exactly that, a resurrection of the unjust?

Isaiah 25 covers that point. The vail of the covering of this flesh world age is going to be removed on that day, for everyone, both the Just in Christ Jesus, and the wicked that were still alive, and the wicked of the resurrection of damnation will manifest then also. In 2 Peter 3 Apostle Peter was even revealing part of this matter when he said,

2 Pet.3

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?

 

[norapture]

Nohype what do you think damnation means or unjust ? Cause what you say the wicked , unjust they get to be taught by the saints during the thousand years. That's not by no means a damnation that would be a blessing but according to you, to be taught Gods way is a damnation. That what you are say that because they are giving a new spirit body and are taught Gods ways then they are damned . The word teaches only of two resurrection, so when do you think the second resurrection is ? And what kind of resurrection is it ? Sense you believe the wicked resurrection is at the same time as the saints but then you say they had no part in it. Little bit of common sense if the wicked are changed when the saints are then that means they were part of it . And resurrection of damnation means to be damned. Not to be taught Gods ways that's not being damned that is a blessing . But I see you hold the doctrine you been taught by man, cause if I had to bet you believe the one's that's cast in the lake of fire just get burned up and are no more instead of getting tormented for ever.

 

[norapture]

NoHype you keep referring to John:28-29 . You say that this is the same time period . It say's in verse 28 the hour is coming , that is not saying when. It let us know in verse 29
Resurrection of life= first resurrection
Resurrection of damnation = second resurrection
Unless you want to add to his word and say that there is a third resurrection.
There is two resurrection and in John5:29 this is what they are called , just like in Act24:15 it tells what kind of resurrection they shall be .
If you say the two resurrection are at the same time you make them one. And if one then the wicked had part in the first.
And if you say its not the same ,then you got two resurrection's at his coming, then you got to add a third one in there after the thousand years when the rest of the dead live again
Cause for them to live again they have to be resurrected. Which makes three resurrection, then if you do that , you are adding to the scripture's.