Pre Tribulation rapture

[RJ]

In all seriousness though,

Anyone who believes in a pre-tribulation rapture, please at least just consider what I have to say. I don't want anyone to lose heart and have their faith shaken so much that they despair of life itself, if some day they find themselves in a world more immoral, twisted, and full of persecution than Sodom and Gomorra was in it's day, and realize that if there is a pre tribulation rapture, then it would have already happened by now. We should all live as if we may meet the Lord this very day, keeping a close watch on our lives, actions, and attitude; that goes without saying. We don't need some immanency of the rapture to motivate us to live that way though. However, if one expects to be totally free from all the bad things that will eventually be coming upon the Earth, and then finds that they have to endure through them, they may lose heart when this reality sets in. I don't want anyone to lose heart.

Luke 17:26-37
26 Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28 Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot--they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, 29 but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all-- 30 so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. 32 Remember Lot's wife. 33 Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it. 34 I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. 35 There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left." 36... 37 And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather."​

Two things of serious significance here. One, that as soon as the righteous (those who have faith) were separated from the wicked, then God's wrath was poored out upon the wicked, and there was no delay . Two, those who are "taken" at the end of this parable, well..... you don't want to be them. We can see a clearer picture of where they go from another parable in Matthew:

Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43
24 He put another parable before them, saying, "The kingdom of heaven may be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field, 25 but while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and went away. 26 So when the plants came up and bore grain, then the weeds appeared also. 27 And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, 'Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?' 28 He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' So the servants said to him, 'Then do you want us to go and gather them?' 29 But he said, 'No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time I will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"​

...

36 Then he left the crowds and went into the house. And his disciples came to him, saying, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds of the field." 37 He answered, "The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, and the good seed is the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. 40 Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.​

Jesus is going to have his angels gather up the Weeds first, before he harvests the wheat. So those who are taken in Luke 17:37, where are they taken to? "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." The vultures are gathering to feast on their flesh.... you don't want to go where those who are taken in Luke 17 are taken to. Likewise, the weeds are gathered up together first, in order to be burned. Only then will the righteous shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

God has been in the business of delivering his people from their enemies while they dwell in the midst of them and are persecuted by them from the beginning of time: Shadrach, Meeschek, and Abidnigo from the furnace; Daniel in the lions Den; Noah and his family; David from the wrath of Saul; the Israelites from the Egyptians who had enslaved them. He is more than able to protect his church in the midst of tribulation and sustain her until the end of the age.

In the world you will have tribulation, but take heart, I have overcome the world. John 16:33
24 Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25 For whoever would save his life[a] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Matthew 16​

Grace to you,

Travis

In all seriousness,
Anyone in such despair over any type of tribulation has no faith.
Now or later, your Armegaedon comes as soon as you die and if you worry about that, you are currently on the wrong side of eternal security!

 

[Strypes]

Pray for Pre-tribulation rapture. Prepare for post.

 

[NoHype]

I see many are still confused about the day of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church, and the time of His cup of wrath upon the wicked.

On the last day of this present world is when our Lord Jesus will come, and that is when those of His still alive on earth will be "caught up" to Him along with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him, for they rise first (1 Thess.4). At that same time is when He pours out His cup of wrath upon the earth that causes the literal ending of the things of this present world.

Isaiah 25 is one of the OT Scriptures where Apostle Paul was pulling from when teaching that event. It involves events on the 'day of The Lord'. And it's about all... still alive on earth... putting off their flesh body and being changed to the "spiritual body", as per what our Lord Jesus taught in John 5:28-29. That means both the saints and... the wicked, will go through that change on earth on that day, at the SAME time.

It is a separation between Christ's sheep and the goats on that day, with Jesus taking His elect of both the saints still alive and the asleep saints, to Jerusalem on earth. The meaning of being "caught up" is about that change Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 to the change of our "spiritual body" type. The whole event is about the Heavenly dimension being revealed right here on earth, to everyone. That is how even those who pierced Him will see Him coming in the clouds to Jerusalem.

 

[RJ]

I see many are still confused about the day of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church, and the time of His cup of wrath upon the wicked.

On the last day of this present world is when our Lord Jesus will come, and that is when those of His still alive on earth will be "caught up" to Him along with the 'asleep' saints He brings with Him, for they rise first (1 Thess.4). At that same time is when He pours out His cup of wrath upon the earth that causes the literal ending of the things of this present world.

Isaiah 25 is one of the OT Scriptures where Apostle Paul was pulling from when teaching that event. It involves events on the 'day of The Lord'. And it's about all... still alive on earth... putting off their flesh body and being changed to the "spiritual body", as per what our Lord Jesus taught in John 5:28-29. That means both the saints and... the wicked, will go through that change on earth on that day, at the SAME time.

It is a separation between Christ's sheep and the goats on that day, with Jesus taking His elect of both the saints still alive and the asleep saints, to Jerusalem on earth. The meaning of being "caught up" is about that change Apostle Paul taught in 1 Cor.15 to the change of our "spiritual body" type. The whole event is about the Heavenly dimension being revealed right here on earth, to everyone. That is how even those who pierced Him will see Him coming in the clouds to Jerusalem.

• I think it is odd that many , if no one, realizes that all this talk of Great Tribulation, his coming or not coming, the last day, the Lords day, etc, is not of the most importance.
• Jesus / God are in the spirit world. They are the begining and the end and this is at the same time.
• All this talk about what is to come and what will happen is talk about the physical world.
• For Jesus / God, in the spirit world, all this to happen in the physical world, has already come to pass just as the true meaning of the scripture says it will.
• Though, I would love to be changed in the "blink of an eye" or come back to earth riding a horse, the truth of the matter is, I will probably die my physical death first and be hurdled into the spirit world, where all this has already happened!
• The bottom line about all this that which is to come, is not near as important being ready now and the spreading of the gospel now!

 

[Strypes]

That means both the saints and... the wicked, will go through that change on earth on that day, at the SAME time.

John Chapter 5 is quite long but we need to consider the context of what Jesus was saying and to whom He was speaking...



John 5:15 The man departed and told the Jews that it was Jesus who had made him well.


16 For this reason the Jews persecuted Jesus, and sought to kill Him, because He had done these things on the Sabbath. 17 But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.”

18 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. 19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. 21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will. 22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son, 23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.


24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

31 “If I bear witness of Myself, My witness is not true. 32 There is another who bears witness of Me, and I know that the witness which He witnesses of Me is true. 33 You have sent to John, and he has borne witness to the truth. 34 Yet I do not receive testimony from man, but I say these things that you may be saved. 35 He was the burning and shining lamp, and you were willing for a time to rejoice in his light. 36 But I have a greater witness than John’s; for the works which the Father has given Me to finish—the very works that I do—bear witness of Me, that the Father has sent Me. 37 And the Father Himself, who sent Me, has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time, nor seen His form. 38 But you do not have His word abiding in you, because whom He sent, Him you do not believe. 39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me. 40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

41 “I do not receive honor from men. 42 But I know you, that you do not have the love of God in you. 43 I have come in My Father’s name, and you do not receive Me; if another comes in his own name, him you will receive. 44 How can you believe, who receive honor from one another, and do not seek the honor that comes from the only God? 45 Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father; there is one who accuses you—Moses, in whom you trust. 46 For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me. 47 But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe My words?”



Ok....

Jesus is addressing Jewish leaders that wanted to kill him for healing that guy on the sabbath!

Jesus has not yet been crucified... or ascended into hell to preach to those in the grave.. Those that died before Jesus rose from the dead.

The folks in verses you quoted (28-29) that are in the grave got to hear the Good News from Jesus during the time Jesus was in the grave and their eternal destination was based on the old covenant and their response to Jesus (in the grave).

Now let us look at 1 Corinthians 15

Verse one...

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;


Paul is addressing believers....


1Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.



Soooo...

maybe you should take a moment and consider these passages in context and reevaluate your understanding of these scriptures.

 

[NoHype]

I think it is odd that many , if no one, realizes that all this talk of Great Tribulation, his coming or not coming, the last day, the Lords day, etc, is not of the most importance.
Jesus / God are in the spirit world. They are the begining and the end and this is at the same time.
All this talk about what is to come and what will happen is talk about the physical world.
For Jesus / God, in the spirit world, all this to happen in the physical world, has already come to pass just as the true meaning of the scripture says it will.
Though, I would love to be changed in the "blink of an eye" or come back to earth riding a horse, the truth of the matter is, I will probably die my physical death first and be hurdled into the spirit world, where all this has already happened!
The bottom line about all this that which is to come, is not near as important being ready now and the spreading of the gospel now!

That reveals you are way behind in your understanding of what's soon coming upon this earth in our near future. But why worry now, right? Nothing you can really do about it, right? Wrong!

Our Heavenly Father and His Son didn't reveal the events for the end to His servants for nothing. We are shown because... He does not want us to 'worry' or be afraid, not to have fear so we may be prepared to make a 'stand' for Him in the evil day.

No one is going to be able to hide from what's coming, not even those who think to go down into bunkers underground or out in the wilderness to live. It's time for each one of us to make ourselves right with our Heavenly Father and His Son.

 

[NoHype]

26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear His voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

All one need do is ask theirself, has this happened yet today, those events underlined above? No, because that event will only occur on the last day of this world, at Christ's second coming. That is about the resurrection Apostle Paul spoke of in 1 Thess.4 and 1 Cor.15. And within 1 Cor.15 he was pulling from Isaiah 25 with that concept of death being swallowed up.

Within that our Lord Jesus revealed on that day the wicked will go into their resurrection also, what He called there "the resurrection of damnation". That resurrection of the wicked does not mean immediate destruction. It means they too will be 'changed' to their spirit body on that day. God's consuming fire upon the earth on that day is going to do that, burning up the things of this present world, literally. But as He created each one of us with a 'spirit' also, it will not be burned up on that day.

 

[RJ]

That reveals you are way behind in your understanding of what's soon coming upon this earth in our near future. But why worry now, right? Nothing you can really do about it, right? Wrong!

Our Heavenly Father and His Son didn't reveal the events for the end to His servants for nothing. We are shown because... He does not want us to 'worry' or be afraid, not to have fear so we may be prepared to make a 'stand' for Him in the evil day.

No one is going to be able to hide from what's coming, not even those who think to go down into bunkers underground or out in the wilderness to live. It's time for each one of us to make ourselves right with our Heavenly Father and His Son.

Thank you Mr. Nohype for categorizing me falsly. I guess you get some kind of prideful validation by putting me down as being way behind on your excellent knowledge.
I have already said that I believe in the future end times events; of course many signs say it is soon but what exactly is soon in our physical time and space. So, please don't insinuate that I don't believe, care or promote such events!
As far as I am concerned, it is you who lack undertsanding. In your arrogance you miss the fact that your "soon" has no Biblical proof to be today, tomorrow or a 1000 years from now. Jesus himself said that you have no way of knowing the actually time but to be prepared.
In your stubbornness, you completly over look my point to satisfy or vindicate yourself as above me.
That's fine you can be and may be above me but you miss, in your conciet, the point.

• Epheians 2: 1-10 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved
• This is the gospel that we are to preach which transcends any thing else and is more important news for us to spread in this world, now.

 

[norapture]

NoHype what you are saying is when the Lord comes back the saints and the wicked are change on the same day .
This can't be right because in Rev 19:17-21these people are flesh and the Lord slays them with the sword, out of his mouth. Another words he just speaks it. And the fowls come eat their flesh, they don't eat a spiritual body. And they are two resurrections one of the just and one of the unjust , there is 1000 years between them. Like Rev 20 says the rest of the day lived not again for a thousand years . So u can see the wicked have no part in the 1st resurrection of the saints . They are slain at that time .

 

[norapture]

NoHype !!!That's Rev19:17-21 and then chapter 20:5 from my last post.

 

[NoHype]

Thank you Mr. Nohype for categorizing me falsly. I guess you get some kind of prideful validation by putting me down as being way behind on your excellent knowledge.
I have already said that I believe in the future end times events; of course many signs say it is soon but what exactly is soon in our physical time and space. So, please don't insinuate that I don't believe, care or promote such events!
As far as I am concerned, it is you who lack undertsanding. In your arrogance you miss the fact that your "soon" has no Biblical proof to be today, tomorrow or a 1000 years from now. Jesus himself said that you have no way of knowing the actually time but to be prepared.
In your stubbornness, you completly over look my point to satisfy or vindicate yourself as above me.
That's fine you can be and may be above me but you miss, in your conciet, the point.

• Epheians 2: 1-10 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved
• This is the gospel that we are to preach which transcends any thing else and is more important news for us to spread in this world, now.

Well, when you have that kind of talk against God's Word when our Lord Jesus wants us to know what will happen, because He told us all things, then you are mocking Him and His Word. So if you believe on Him then someone has to try and get you back on track. The ones you ought to be wondering about instead of me are those who led you to such a view and got you off track about these matters for the end which The LORD put in His Word for those who believe on Him.

 

[NoHype]

NoHype what you are saying is when the Lord comes back the saints and the wicked are change on the same day .
This can't be right because in Rev 19:17-21these people are flesh and the Lord slays them with the sword, out of his mouth. Another words he just speaks it. And the fowls come eat their flesh, they don't eat a spiritual body. And they are two resurrections one of the just and one of the unjust , there is 1000 years between them. Like Rev 20 says the rest of the day lived not again for a thousand years . So u can see the wicked have no part in the 1st resurrection of the saints . They are slain at that time .

Not many brethren study their OT Scripture, so don't forget Isaiah 25 that I mentioned. And for the time in Rev.20, to live in that time is meant in the Salvation sense, not flesh sense.

On the last day of this world, with Hamongog, there will be the bodies of the destroyed on the ground. But what of their spirits? Christ's future Millennial reign will be an age of the spiritual body of 1 Cor.15, not bodies of flesh. That is why we are shown in Rev.20 only one type of death remains then, the "second death", which is the casting of one's spirit with soul into the "lake of fire" at the end of Christ's thousand years reign.

So yes, the John 5:28-29 Scripture is... about the wicked going through their change at Christ's coming also, but their spirit with soul are still "dead" and without Christ's Salvation in that time. The belief that the nations outside the "camp of the saints" in that time are still in flesh bodies is a Jewish doctrine of men. There will be no more flesh death in that time, but only the "second death" which they will be subject to. And they will stand in judgement throughout the thousand years, until Satan is loosed one final time to test them. No soul will be destroyed until that point.

 

[RJ]

Well, when you have that kind of talk against God's Word when our Lord Jesus wants us to know what will happen, because He told us all things, then you are mocking Him and His Word. So if you believe on Him then someone has to try and get you back on track. The ones you ought to be wondering about instead of me are those who led you to such a view and got you off track about these matters for the end which The LORD put in His Word for those who believe on Him.

Please! Any reasonable reader of these posts could see that I have not talked against God's word but against your false acuations. And Please, reframe from trying to get me back on your ridiculous track, I want nothing to do with your self- righteousness. Again, I have never, not once, said anything aginst God's word about end times.I challenge you to find any such thing I have said. In fact, I have said that I believe in the end time scriptures and look forward to it, if I am still here. On the other hand, you are on some kind of jag to be-little my belief to apparently build yourself up, it is discusting, please stop. My advise to you is to humble yourself and be ashamed. If you can't humble yourself, please show me where I once said I didn't believe in end times scripture or look forward to it ( as you put it"my talk against God"), if you can't, you need to move on because false acuations is a pretty serious thing!!

 

[norapture]

No hype I read isaiah 25 there isn't one verse that says the wicked are change when the saints are. Rev. 19: 17-21 shows the the wicked did not get changed with the saints to a spiritual body but are still flesh when he returns. The fowls come and eat their flesh.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth; and all the fowls were filled with their((flesh))
It did not say the fowls was filled with their spiritual body this is flesh.
But if you got some scripture that says the wicked are changed at the same time with the saints please post them.
Oh just curious at the second death when they get cast in the lake of fire what happens to them? Do the just burn up or get tormented forever?

 

[NoHype]

How would you know what Biblical evidence is there anyway, since you're so eager to pass it off?

Brethren, the following is where Apostle Paul was pulling from in 1 Cor.15 when he was teaching about death being swallowed up in victory. Isaiah 25 reveals the idea of death being swallowed up not just for those in Christ Jesus, but for all nations...

Isa.25
6 And in this mountain shall the Lord of hosts make unto all people a feast of fat things, a feast of wines on the lees, of fat things full of marrow, of wines on the lees well refined. 7And He will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.
8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord God will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of His people shall He take away from off all the earth: for the Lord hath spoken it.

In the following Isaiah 25 verse, His elect are proclaiming Christ's presence on earth...making note this is He Whom they have faithfully waited for, i.e., His second coming:


9 And it shall be said in that day, "Lo, this is our God; we have waited for Him, and He will save us: this is the Lord; we have waited for Him, we will be glad and rejoice in His salvation."

On that day, all peoples will see Christ Jesus as He is, and will know He is Lord and Saviour. The death of the flesh will be swallowed up in victory by The Lord, marking the Millennial timing of Christ's future thousand years reign with His elect, on earth, over the nations. The veil of covering cast over all peoples and nations, which represents the flesh, will be removed on that day, even the wicked going into their own 'resurrection' (John 5:28-29).

 

[james1523]

One of the best evidence against a general pretribulation rapture is that they made movies about it and such a work of fiction cannot be a sound doctrine.
I have always been uncomfortable with having my emotions and thoughts manipulated by the movie screen for a doctrine which is not clear in the Bible.

 

[NoHype]

Now or later, your Armegaedon comes as soon as you die and if you worry about that, you are currently on the wrong side of eternal security!
....
I think it is odd that many , if no one, realizes that all this talk of Great Tribulation, his coming or not coming, the last day, the Lords day, etc, is not of the most importance.
....
For Jesus / God, in the spirit world, all this to happen in the physical world, has already come to pass just as the true meaning of the scripture says it will.
Though, I would love to be changed in the "blink of an eye" or come back to earth riding a horse, the truth of the matter is, I will probably die my physical death first and be hurdled into the spirit world, where all this has already happened!

That kind of talk is not conducive to the need for Christian brethren to understand the events our Lord Jesus gave us in His Word for the end of days. It is instead conducive to a 'laissez faire' attitude towards our Lord's Word about these things He specifically gave to us upon whom the ends of the world have come.

There is a problem in some Church systems today that have latched onto men's doctrines, wrongly teaching that many of the events written in God's Word for the end have already come to pass, when they have not and are nearly upon us. Some of those gross errors of teaching include ideas that Jesus' second coming happened already back His Apostle's days, or that we are already in the "thousand years" period of Rev.20 or that it is past already, etc. And their evil basket of false doctrines continue to grow, adding on to that each day, creating more leaven on top of leaven.

The Bible prophecies for the end of days has NOT... occurred in Heaven, even though our Heavenly Father has already ordained them to happen (on earth AND in Heaven) and has the foreknowledge of them. For example, the war in Heaven between the Archangel Michael and Satan per Rev.12:7 forward is still yet to occur. Nor does the Armageddon event occur when one dies, for it is a specific event preserved for the last day of this present world at Jesus' second coming back to this earth.

So you can cry like a whipped puppy that you have been wronged somehow, but my remarks against your wrongful attitude towards Christ's revelations about the end to His saints still stands.

 

[NoHype]

One of the best evidence against a general pretribulation rapture is that they made movies about it and such a work of fiction cannot be a sound doctrine.
I have always been uncomfortable with having my emotions and thoughts manipulated by the movie screen for a doctrine which is not clear in the Bible.

Yes, pretty good indicator especially for today when proclaiming God's Holy Writ as it is actually written is not very popular.

 

[RJ]

That kind of talk is not conducive to the need for Christian brethren to understand the events our Lord Jesus gave us in His Word for the end of days. It is instead conducive to a 'laissez faire' attitude towards our Lord's Word about these things He specifically gave to us upon whom the ends of the world have come.

There is a problem in some Church systems today that have latched onto men's doctrines, wrongly teaching that many of the events written in God's Word for the end have already come to pass, when they have not and are nearly upon us. Some of those gross errors of teaching include ideas that Jesus' second coming happened already back His Apostle's days, or that we are already in the "thousand years" period of Rev.20 or that it is past already, etc. And their evil basket of false doctrines continue to grow, adding on to that each day, creating more leaven on top of leaven.

The Bible prophecies for the end of days has NOT... occurred in Heaven, even though our Heavenly Father has already ordained them to happen (on earth AND in Heaven) and has the foreknowledge of them. For example, the war in Heaven between the Archangel Michael and Satan per Rev.12:7 forward is still yet to occur. Nor does the Armageddon event occur when one dies, for it is a specific event preserved for the last day of this present world at Jesus' second coming back to this earth.

So you can cry like a whipped puppy that you have been wronged somehow, but my remarks against your wrongful attitude towards Christ's revelations about the end to His saints still stands.

• It is instead conducive to a 'laissez faire' attitude towards our Lord's Word about these things He specifically gave to us upon whom the ends of the world have come. Man you are on a jag aren't you! All this superfluous talk about my ignoring Biblical end times is really getting old and does nothing more than discredit you as a knowledgable peron!
• There is a problem in some Church systems today that have latched onto men's doctrines, wrongly teaching that many of the events written in God's Word for the end have already come to pass, when they have not and are nearly upon us Please stop using me for a sounding board for your personal theologies. I have never been associated with any of the things here that you say. Don't bring me in to this sort of diatribe of yours. If you want to hurl these false accuations at me, please have the good character to quote me saying or even remotely insinuating such nonsense. You are only discrediting yourself.
• Some of those gross errors of teaching include ideas that Jesus' second coming happened already back His Apostle's days, or that we are already in the "thousand years" period of Rev.20 or that it is past already, etc. And their evil basket of false doctrines continue to grow, adding on to that each day, creating more leaven on top of leaven.
  There you go yet again, tieing me into that sort of thinking. If you want to say something, don't use me as your grandstand. Again, if you want to categorize me as saying or believing such thinking and, if not for me then others who may be reading, please show proof where I have said or supported such things, your disgraceful!
• The Bible prophecies for the end of days has NOT... occurred in Heaven, even though our Heavenly Father has already ordained them to happen (on earth AND in Heaven) and has the foreknowledge of them. For example, the war in Heaven between the Archangel Michael and Satan per Rev.12:7 forward is still yet to occur. Nor does the Armageddon event occur when one dies, for it is a specific event preserved for the last day of this present world at Jesus' second coming back to this earth.
  You have no concept of the difference between the physical and spiritual realms. My use of Armageddon as mostly symbolic but you are too hard-hearted to see the similarity! I would say , that when one dies ( especially before any of the end-times events) that they die either saved or they die unsaved. Everyone in God's Kingdom knows that if you die unsaved, you are going to hell. Now I ask you Nohype, in all your vast and perfect knowledge ( BTW, I thought that was only God who was Omnipotent)...in all your knowledge, if you die and go to hell it could be regarded as be your own personal Armageddon....sorry you can't see that!
• So you can cry like a whipped puppy that you have been wronged somehow, but my remarks against your wrongful attitude towards Christ's revelations about the end to His saints still stands LOL...ha ha, ha ha, you have a serious problem with communicating.
• I am going to ask you one last time to leave me out of your fictitious slander amd move on to something else or I will only be forced to report you to the administrator!
• Why don't you carry your thoughts over to and start a new Thread, just stop falsely using me a your platform!

 

[norapture]

NoHype you ask how I would know biblical evidence .
I know because of the Spirit that the Lord has giving me and what's wrote in the scriptures without saying this means something it doesn't like u seem to do.
I know what Paul was saying in Cor.15 it was the believers .
And there is a resurrection of the just and unjust but nowhere in scriptures is it the same day like you have said. So in St John 5:28-29 where you thing it is saying its the same day. Its not saying this is the same day it says there a resurrection of life and resurrection of damnation.
So when is this resurrection of damnation its when they compass the camp of the saints. After the 1000 years Rev20:5 like I said the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
So how do you explain the fowls eating the flesh of men when the Lord comes back in Rev19:18and verse 21
And as you posted in Isaiah25:9 And it shall be said in that day, Lo,this is (our) God; (we) have waited for him, and he will save (us):this is the Lord; ( we )have waited for him, (we) will be glad and rejoice in his (salvation).
This is not the wicked they have not waited for the Lord, they will not be glad and rejoice neither, and they don't have salvation.
Isaiah25:8 when God wipes away tears from all faces is not the wicked either. Cause when he does this only the believers are left this is after the wicked are cast in the lake of fire.Rev21:4 then he wipes away their tears.
So you got to know in scripture when it comes to prophecy from one verse to another could be a different time period. Go look at the prophecy on Jesus they may be only one single verse in a chapter or they could be more it does not have to tie in with verse before or after to be prophecy.
And the vail that you say is flesh, that's not what this is saying. Look in 2 Cor 3:13-16 this vail is blindness, when he comes back the veil will removed, cause everyone will see and know who is Lord of lords and King of kings. This vail is blindness. But please tell me how fowls eat a spiritual body.