Protestants and Catholics

[Hekuran]

I am sure you are both correct with your own experiences brothers.

The Church of England varies immensely, from what is called high, close to catholic, to what is called happy clappy evangelical.

The CofE I went to over 23 years ago when it was 'new', purpose built in the area, has changed also. I was watching services on YouTube over the last two months, the creed has changed taking away the holy catholic wording, PTL. The choir and leader has gone they now have a music group and piano. They also sang Shine Jesus Shine one Sunday and from home I took part, not just in the song. Nothing is impossible for God, the Spirit will change a fellowship of believers if their hearts allow it.

PTL to God be the Glory

Jesus is Lord.

Shalom

Actually, in this case @B-A-C is claiming something that is clearly false.

 

[Brother-Paul]

There are parts of the CofE that are liberal, but the CofE is a very broad denomination, with every shade of theology represented - Reformed, Anglocatholic, liberal, and conservative.

Having said that, there is no part of the Church of England that considers a vicar a substitute Jesus.

I have always understood that a vicar is a temporary, in all honesty I didn't know if this was because they usually serve in one place for seven years.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Actually, in this case @B-A-C is claiming something that is clearly false.

May be in USA he has experienced it, he says he has brother.

 

[Brother-Paul]

The CofE profess to be Protestant, but there parts of it that are clearly nearer to catholic views and practices.

It would appear therefore the current arch bishop is not the only leader who left each place of worship to go their own way. That would say to me what is this man's post? What is he actually paid to do? Making a decision does not seem to be in the job description. I am quoting that way because that is how it is today, it is a paid job for a carer with a pension. As Jesus said several times, it never used to be like that.

I am not saying it is wrong for them to do what they do for nothing, although the early church no doubt did, they did it for Jesus, they did it for the love of God.

What I am saying it is a mish mash, the Holy Spirit is consistent always, yet so many CofE places of worship, shall I say, seem to go their own way.

Shalom

 

[B-A-C]

May be in USA he has experienced it, he says he has brother.

Not so much being Jesus in the sense that they are your Savior and God.
But definitely in the sense that they are the mediator between you and God.
Also in the sense that it is they (the church per se) that decides your sins are forgiven.

So yes... a substitute Jesus in those particular ways. This wasn't just at one church.

 

[Brother-Paul]

Not so much being Jesus in the sense that they are your Savior and God.
But definitely in the sense that they are the mediator between you and God.
Also in the sense that it is they (the church per se) that decides your sins are forgiven.

So yes... a substitute Jesus in those particular ways. This wasn't just at one church.

You read my comment brother.

I don't think your reply was for me.

 

[Hekuran]

Not so much being Jesus in the sense that they are your Savior and God.
But definitely in the sense that they are the mediator between you and God.
Also in the sense that it is they (the church per se) that decides your sins are forgiven.

So yes... a substitute Jesus in those particular ways. This wasn't just at one church.

Not at all in the sense that the vicar is your God.

The Church of England does not decide whether sins are forgiven either. The confession part of a Sunday service typically runs like this.

All

Lord God,
we have sinned against you;
we have done evil in your sight.
We are sorry and repent.
Have mercy on us according to your love.
Wash away our wrongdoing and cleanse us from our sin.
Renew a right spirit within us
and restore us to the joy of your salvation,
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.

Leader

May the Father of all mercies
cleanse us from our sins,
and restore us in his image
to the praise and glory of his name,
through Jesus Christ our Lord.

All Amen.

---

Cant you see that your original claim about vicars in the Church of England is misleading and false?

 

[B-A-C]

Cant you see that your original claim about vicars in the Church of England is misleading and false?

No, I still see just the opposite.

 

[Bill]

Taking the end of your first sentence fist Bill if I may...

I never would have guessed in this day in age that you all hold onto it so strongly. Things that happened so long ago still effect us here.

Was Christ not on earth 2000 years ago?

Things that happened in the past are so important, especially when it involves, Jesus Christ, his church, and how some have treated it to their own ends. With best intentions I am sure but, things that affect The Word, our Lord's Church, are of prime importance to be left correct, not interfered with. Not one dot or tittle changed. Do you not agree?

The issue Bill is not denomination, the issue is a group who claim to follow Christ and The Word, doing exactly the opposite.

Regarding looking back, it is something I maintain always we should do, if we don't look back we won't see the errors, but when I say look back it is not usually meant to look for RCC errors. no, no, it is to look back at the early church, the first few hundred years, how the church was then, before Constantine, before RCC involvement.

Shalom

But there are so many errors that continuously are retold without really taking time to dig into Scripture. As an example. Mary having other children after Jesus.

Based on the Laws of Moses, Joseph can care for Mary as his own, but in following the Laws of Moses, could never be intimate with Mary. It would be considered audultry. Joseph knew this as a stout Jew. He would have to remain celibate the entire time.

As the Scripture states, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, and Jesus was conceived.

The Scripture states, Two become one . As one flesh.

But to accept this thinking, you would have to admit , the Catholics got this right. And heaven forbid acknowledging that there may be some truth to the Catholic thinking.

I condemn the Protestants that won't accept anything that remotely shows signs of being Catholic. ( just as i condemn the Catholics for being so stubborn as well)

 

[Brother-Paul]

Not at all in the sense that the vicar is your God.

The Church of England does not decide whether sins are forgiven either. The confession part of a Sunday service typically runs like this.

All

Lord God,
we have sinned against you;
we have done evil in your sight.
We are sorry and repent.
Have mercy on us according to your love.
Wash away our wrongdoing and cleanse us from our sin.
Renew a right spirit within us
and restore us to the joy of your salvation,
through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen.

Leader

May the Father of all mercies
cleanse us from our sins,
and restore us in his image
to the praise and glory of his name,
through Jesus Christ our Lord.

All Amen.

---

Cant you see that your original claim about vicars in the Church of England is misleading and false?

In the seven years I was part of CorE, i can confirm when praying for forviveness it was as a body, a congregation, very similar to as you put it.

During the pandemic, towards the current restrictions easing I have watched a couple of CorE places of worship, and confirm the prayer for forgivenees is also done as stated.

 

[Brother-Paul]

But there are so many errors that continuously are retold without really taking time to dig into Scripture. As an example. Mary having other children after Jesus.

Based on the Laws of Moses, Joseph can care for Mary as his own, but in following the Laws of Moses, could never be intimate with Mary. It would be considered audultry. Joseph knew this as a stout Jew. He would have to remain celibate the entire time.

As the Scripture states, the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary, and Jesus was conceived.

The Scripture states, Two become one . As one flesh.

But to accept this thinking, you would have to admit , the Catholics got this right. And heaven forbid acknowledging that there may be some truth to the Catholic thinking.

I condemn the Protestants that won't accept anything that remotely shows signs of being Catholic. ( just as i condemn the Catholics for being so stubborn as well)

Now we have true colours Bill.

You have previously said. Catholics and protestants should come together as one, putting aside differences, Now you say you condemn those whobreject what catholic think.

I repeat Bill what I said in a past post... I have nothinh against catholics, but if what they prea h is against the scriptites, Iwe have a duty to reveal the errors in love.

There is no its a catholic thing it is wrong, no, no, but if it is not right with scripture we must say.

In his love

 

[Bill]

The CofE profess to be Protestant, but there parts of it that are clearly nearer to catholic views and practices.

It would appear therefore the current arch bishop is not the only leader who left each place of worship to go their own way. That would say to me what is this man's post? What is he actually paid to do? Making a decision does not seem to be in the job description. I am quoting that way because that is how it is today, it is a paid job for a carer with a pension. As Jesus said several times, it never used to be like that.

I am not saying it is wrong for them to do what they do for nothing, although the early church no doubt did, they did it for Jesus, they did it for the love of God.

What I am saying it is a mish mash, the Holy Spirit is consistent always, yet so many CofE places of worship, shall I say, seem to go their own way.

Shalom

What you are saying here , can so easily be said of many Protestant churches.

A few years back, i was invited to visit a congregation near Southbend, In. They had a ministry of serving the poor there.

The leader felt lead to work with the poor via the Holy Spirit.

The church he origionally came from did not do this type of work. And was outside the area.

Rather than talking with the church leaders, and telling them what the Holy Spirit had set in his heart. He with a number of others, broke away from the main group and started thier own church.

The leader stated to me that the old church wasnt following the Holy Spirit.

My reply , he never wanted to hear. ( if you would have spoke to the Leaders, this inner city would have become a outward ministry for the church. And you would have had support. The Holy Spirit never told you to leave your old church)

As you can see, the movement of the Holy Spirit was present, but the mans own thinking got in the way

 

[Bill]

Now we have true colours Bill.

You have previously said. Catholics and protestants should come together as one, putting aside differences, Now you say you condemn those whobreject what catholic think.

I repeat Bill what I said in a past post... I have nothinh against catholics, but if what they prea h is against the scriptites, Iwe have a duty to reveal the errors in love.

There is no its a catholic thing it is wrong, no, no, but if it is not right with scripture we must say.

In his love

You skimmed over what i wrote, because i also said , i condemn the Catholics as well for thier stubborness

 

[Bill]

Now we have true colours Bill.

You have previously said. Catholics and protestants should come together as one, putting aside differences, Now you say you condemn those whobreject what catholic think.

I repeat Bill what I said in a past post... I have nothinh against catholics, but if what they prea h is against the scriptites, Iwe have a duty to reveal the errors in love.

There is no its a catholic thing it is wrong, no, no, but if it is not right with scripture we must say.

In his love

I am not on anyones side, save God's.

The spiritual work i do is not accepted by anyone. But it must be done.

The Lord has given to me authority, and i do the work that He has set out for me.

 

[Bill]

Now we have true colours Bill.

You have previously said. Catholics and protestants should come together as one, putting aside differences, Now you say you condemn those whobreject what catholic think.

I repeat Bill what I said in a past post... I have nothinh against catholics, but if what they prea h is against the scriptites, Iwe have a duty to reveal the errors in love.

There is no its a catholic thing it is wrong, no, no, but if it is not right with scripture we must say.

In his love

You see , instead of looking at what i wrote about the Laws of Moses, and Mary. The subject was side tracked on what i said about condemning ( maybe the word was too strong) God gets upset with mans stubborness, and so do i

 

[Brad Huber]

I can honestly say that I've never really been into the politics of the Protestants or the Catholics. And I never would have guessed in this day in age that you all hold onto it so strongly. Things that happened so long ago still effect us here.

To me it goes along the same line has being prejudiced two people of different color. I thank God that my dad never saw color.

I guess what I think about, is in seeing all of this animosity of Catholics to Protestants and Protestants to Catholics. What will you do now to fix it. Will we be Christians and find a way to forgive our brothers and sisters and a fix the golf that is between us. Or will we continue to judge them and in turn judge ourselves before God

I have no animosity towards Catholics or Protestants. My mother was a catholic, but raised me in a church that switched pulpits every 6 years from Luthern to Methodist I believe. Very unique, I have had many call me a liar just because I said that. That church building was merely the closest one, about 300 feet away from our house. I was taught to not dislike any faith, but to hold to the faith I was taught. I turned 12 and my mother allowed me and my brother to decide for ourselves if we still wanted to go. I went another 2 weeks because I didnt want to upset my mom. But when I saw it didnt upset her that my brother quit right away, I quit also. I was more so an agnostic, and had a come to Jesus moment when I was 17. Saw right away that that christianity was soooooooooooooooo fragmented, that I wanted to stay away from churches. What were the odds that I would pick the right one out of all those faiths? Perhaps they were all wrong to some degree, and I decided that was the case, so I trusted God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit to guide me, and that inlcuded guiding me to the church He wanted me in at that time (fellowship is important). He guided me to a brethern denomination, not because of the perfectness of their doctrine, not because that group of believers was better than any of the others, but simply because the pastor was whom God wanted me to learn from. So I did, and in a couple of years, he and his wife retired, and it wasnt more than a year before I left that church also. The new pastor had problems with me and I with him, and I left to keep the peace with the congregation. Been skipping to and fro to all different kinds of churchs since then, including sometimes RCC (catholic is simply the church, sort of like the spiritual church, the RCC is the Roman catholic church, Sometimes catholics differentiate by saying Catholic is the spiritual church and RCC is the one centered in rome and is spelled catholic usually to denote the difference. Big C, small C.). Its never been about going to the right church group, its simply going and either be ministered to, or minister to them if so led.

You all make it so complicated. Rules rules rules, ours are better than yours. My church holds to these more important beliefs that yours dont.

I go for fellowship with others who want to serve Christ, sometimes I find some there, sometimes I dont. The Holy Spirit teaches me mostly, and scripture of course. Sometimes together, sometimes seperately. I am sad, and the Holy Spirit is grieved because of all the division. But protestants can more easily swayed by scripture and by the voice. You all know what I am talking about. Some have the voice, some dont. Thats both good and bad, because both good and evil people have the voice, its how they use it that shows their leaning. But most people dont talk about the voice, because they are afraid of it.



(For those of you who are clueless, its the voice of conviction and authority)

 

[Bill]

.

 

[Bill]

I have no animosity towards Catholics or Protestants. My mother was a catholic, but raised me in a church that switched pulpits every 6 years from Luthern to Methodist I believe. Very unique, I have had many call me a liar just because I said that. That church building was merely the closest one, about 300 feet away from our house. I was taught to not dislike any faith, but to hold to the faith I was taught. I turned 12 and my mother allowed me and my brother to decide for ourselves if we still wanted to go. I went another 2 weeks because I didnt want to upset my mom. But when I saw it didnt upset her that my brother quit right away, I quit also. I was more so an agnostic, and had a come to Jesus moment when I was 17. Saw right away that that christianity was soooooooooooooooo fragmented, that I wanted to stay away from churches. What were the odds that I would pick the right one out of all those faiths? Perhaps they were all wrong to some degree, and I decided that was the case, so I trusted God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit to guide me, and that inlcuded guiding me to the church He wanted me in at that time (fellowship is important). He guided me to a brethern denomination, not because of the perfectness of their doctrine, not because that group of believers was better than any of the others, but simply because the pastor was whom God wanted me to learn from. So I did, and in a couple of years, he and his wife retired, and it wasnt more than a year before I left that church also. The new pastor had problems with me and I with him, and I left to keep the peace with the congregation. Been skipping to and fro to all different kinds of churchs since then, including sometimes RCC (catholic is simply the church, sort of like the spiritual church, the RCC is the Roman catholic church, Sometimes catholics differentiate by saying Catholic is the spiritual church and RCC is the one centered in rome and is spelled catholic usually to denote the difference. Big C, small C.). Its never been about going to the right church group, its simply going and either be ministered to, or minister to them if so led.

You all make it so complicated. Rules rules rules, ours are better than yours. My church holds to these more important beliefs that yours dont.

I go for fellowship with others who want to serve Christ, sometimes I find some there, sometimes I dont. The Holy Spirit teaches me mostly, and scripture of course. Sometimes together, sometimes seperately. I am sad, and the Holy Spirit is grieved because of all the division. But protestants can more easily swayed by scripture and by the voice. You all know what I am talking about. Some have the voice, some dont. Thats both good and bad, because both good and evil people have the voice, its how they use it that shows their leaning. But most people dont talk about the voice, because they are afraid of it.



(For those of you who are clueless, its the voice of conviction and authority)

The Lord shared with me some years ago this.

All the churches are like a big family. Each church claiming they have the nitch on God. Each church saying, i love God , you dont.

Then He said, there are many many many people who love me, and i love all of them

 

[Bill]

Obviously not all have issues , and i am sorry i pointed it that way.

I do get very upset with Catholic priests when i encounter complete stupid acts . I have stood up during sermons and argued with priests over thier remarks about Protestants.

The Fire of God's Justice burns in me

 

[Downunder]

But there are so many errors that continuously are retold without really taking time to dig into Scripture. As an example. Mary having other children after Jesus.
Based on the Laws of Moses, Joseph can care for Mary as his own, but in following the Laws of Moses, could never be intimate with Mary. It would be considered audultry. Joseph knew this as a stout Jew. He would have to remain celibate the entire time.

Jesus Rejected at Nazareth
Mark 6:1 And he went out thence; and cometh into his own country; and his disciples follow him.
6:2 And when Sabbath came, he began to teach in the synagogue: and the many hearing him were astonished, saying, Whence hath this man these things? and what the wisdom given this man, and what mean such mighty works wrought by his hands?
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they stumbled in him.
6:4 And Jesus said to them [that] A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.
6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick, and healed them.
6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages teaching.

Matthew 13:55 Is not this the son of the carpenter? is not his mother called Mariam? and his brethren, James and Joseph, and Simon, and Judah?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
13:57 And they stumbled in him. But Jesus said to them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his country, and in his house.