Rapture and Tribulation

[norapture]

What part of rev.. Is past.. Chapter 1 vs 10 John is taken to the Lords day.. What part of rev.. Does John come back and talk about past events.. I must be missing something .. Thanks..

Hey Front
When scripture was written is was wrote for seeing they would see not.
Thats why Jesus spoke in parables also so it can't be learned with mans knowledge, but is revealed by his Spirit.
For instance look at Matthew 2:18 this is a prophecy , that was fulfilled.
Then go read it in Jeremiah 31:15
Now if we had just read this in JEREMIAH without seeing it in Matthew, we probably would not understand what Jeremiah was talking about , much less understand it was prophecy. And look at verse 14& 16
Do you think these two verse (14&16) has anything to do with the prophecy in MATTHEW.

This is the way Revelation is written, in Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen(past) and the things which are (present) and the things which shall be hereafter; (future)
We need to understand Revelation is not just future and also is not written in order, just like OT the verse before one may not be talking about same thing. or the verse after may not be talking about the verse before it
I'm not saying ever verse is that way but we got to know how to rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Frony111]

Hey Front
When scripture was written is was wrote for seeing they would see not.
Thats why Jesus spoke in parables also so it can't be learned with mans knowledge, but is revealed by his Spirit.
For instance look at this is a prophecy , that was fulfilled.
Then go read it in
Now if we had just read this in JEREMIAH without seeing it in Matthew, we probably would not understand what Jeremiah was talking about , much less understand it was prophecy. And look at verse 14& 16
Do you think these two verse (14&16) has anything to do with the prophecy in MATTHEW.

This is the way Revelation is written, in Write the things which thou hast seen(past) and the things which are (present) and the things which shall be hereafter; (future)
We need to understand Revelation is not just future and also is not written in order, just like OT the verse before one may not be talking about same thing. or the verse after may not be talking about the verse before it
I'm not saying ever verse is that way but we got to know how to rightly divide the word of truth.

I'm only asking at what part is John taken back from the Lords day and talks about past events?

 

[Frony111]

I'm just trying to learn more about the book of revelation.. It is a hard book for me to understand.. I thought it was mostly future but it is confusing for me .. Tnx for your help..

 

[Chad]

Where is rapture written in the bible? I would rather check the bible for the answer.. Thank you..

Did you read the links I posted to Darian? You're asking for answers that were already provided. Please check again below.

The Rapture of the Church ~ Audio Sermon

Rapture & Second Coming

 

[Frony111]

Did you read the links I posted to Darian? You're asking for answers that were already provided. Please check again below.

They are interpretations of men.. I was just asking where God speaks of rapture.. The word is not in the bible that i know of if you know where it is please let me know is all i was asking .. Those scriptures do not sound like rapture to me .

 

[Chad]

The links I posted explain the rapture. Just because the word is not in the bible does not mean it is not biblical. Read and learn.

 

[Frony111]

The links I posted explain the rapture. Just because the word is not in the bible does not mean it is not biblical. Read and learn.

I have read and I don't see anything about rapture.. We all have different view's on scripture.. But in the end we are all on the same side.. I would just wonder why God would rapture Christians.. Then use someone else to speak through when they are delivered up for a testimony..

 

[RJ]

I have read and I don't see anything about rapture.. We all have different view's on scripture.. But in the end we are all on the same side.. I would just wonder why God would rapture Christians.. Then use someone else to speak through when they are delivered up for a testimony..

Other than gathering his Church, up to that point, why would God make a true "Born Again" believer to suffer through The Great Tribulation. Jesus should already be in you, he is the only advocate you need!

 

[Frony111]

Other than gathering his Church, up to that point, why would God make a true "Born Again" believer to suffer through The Great Tribulation. Jesus should already be in you, he is the only advocate you need!

A true Christian would not be afraid of the tribulation .. Luke 21 says not a hair on your head shall perish.. Why wouldn't a Christian want to be here if God wanted to use them for a testimony.. If there really is a rapture I hope I'm left in case God wants to use me.. Fear not those that can cause your flesh perish but fear him that can cause your soul to perish. But if there isn't a rapture I hope Christians are not discouraged stay strong he will never leave us or forsake us.. I just would hate to see Christians lose faith if they are not raptured..

 

[RJ]

A true Christian would not be afraid of the tribulation .. Luke 21 says not a hair on your head shall perish.. Why wouldn't a Christian want to be here if God wanted to use them for a testimony.. If there really is a rapture I hope I'm left in case God wants to use me.. Fear not those that can cause your flesh perish but fear him that can cause your soul to perish. But if there isn't a rapture I hope Christians are not discouraged stay strong he will never leave us or forsake us.. I just would hate to see Christians lose faith if they are not raptured..

For sure. Anyway, I believe in Pre-rapture but, more than likely I will die my physical death first anyway, after which, I want to come back at Christ's second coming riding a Horse!

 

[Justin15]

Rev 3:10 proves that rapture is conditional upon us doing something -

Rev 3:10 Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.

The Bible also says, that the Bride has prepared herself and made herself ready (Rev 19:7). Many Christians are not preparing themselves and ready, so they won't be raptured. To say that those who don't prepare themselves get the same rewards as those who don't, is unjust and God is not unrighteous.

Regarding Enoch's faith and works, the Bible says Enoch "walked". Walking includes works. It includes everything Enoch did over his lifetime. It does not say Enoch was raptured because of mental faith or believe "alone". The bible says faith (i.e. mere mental belief) without works (corresponding actions) is dead and faith is not alone. James 2:24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone. That is not my opinion, that is what the Bible says.

Yes, Elijah as well, but these are very special people. In the whole Bible, only two special people were raptured (is there a third?). Most go through martyrdom, and there is no shame in that either, in fact there is special reward for martyrs that raptured ones don't get (Rev 2:10).

The Bible is not so clear that the rapture is a "promise given to all who have faith in Christ". You are confusing rapture with salvation and the resurrection. Salvation and resurrection are firm promises, that every Christian can agree upon because it is clearly in the Bible, however the rapture is not, and I'm not sure how many non-biblical sources (e.g. popular Christian books, magazines etc) you may have used to arrive at that conclusion, but give two Christians a Bible, and they will be able to agree on resurrection and salvation because it is clear, but they probably won't be able to agree on rapture because it is not so clear. The resurrection is clear in the gospels but not the rapture. This is further indication that the rapture is not a widescale and general thing (like the resurrection is), otherwise the Bible would be more clear about it, and it would be something about which all Christians would agree.

James, I recognized when reading this quote a popular misunderstanding between the relationship of faith and works. The scripture used was Rev 3:10 assuming that one's perseverance of faith would be the determining factor of if that individual would be considered worthy of being raptured. Ultimately let us remember that an individuals perseverance is based on God's faithfulness and not ours Phil 1:6, John 8:31, Romans 2:7, 1 Corinth 1:8. Perseverance in faith and the doctrine of salvation are always linked in scripture; John 8:31, Matt 24:13. Therefore those who are saved are those who persevere. Also, our good works are foreordained by God, Eph 2:10 therefore are certain to come to pass James 2:14-26. The reality is, that every Christian will be raptured in that day for we are not justified by our works, but by our faith in Christ Romans 3:28 Galatians 2:16. Therefore by the basis of Christ's righteousness we are judged and not our own righteousness. This is why we are all one in Christ Gal 3:28 Remember Christ is coming back for the Church Eph 5:27. All Christians will be raptured because we are appointed for salvation. 1 Thess 5:9

 

[RJ]

James, I recognized when reading this quote a popular misunderstanding between the relationship of faith and works. The scripture used was Rev 3:10 assuming that one's perseverance of faith would be the determining factor of if that individual would be considered worthy of being raptured. Ultimately let us remember that an individuals perseverance is based on God's faithfulness and not ours Phil 1:6, John 8:31, Romans 2:7, 1 Corinth 1:8. Perseverance in faith and the doctrine of salvation are always linked in scripture; JJohn 8:31, att 24:13. Therefore those who are saved are those who persevere. Also, our good works are foreordained by God, Eph 2:10 therefore are certain to come to pass James 2:14-26. The reality is, that every Christian will be raptured in that day for we are not justified by our works, but by our faith in Christ Romans 3:28 Galatians 2:16. Therefore by the basis of Christ's righteousness we are judged and not our own righteousness. This is why we are all one in Christ Gal 3:28 Remember Christ is coming back for the Church Eph 5:27. All Christians will be raptured because we are appointed for salvation. 1 Thess 5:9

I like this. The simple truth of the New Covenant is that it has nothing to do with any part of the Old Covenant and, salvation does not come by works or a combination of works and grace.Under the now New Covenant, It is by grace alone. Where there is any works, there can not be any grace.

 

[Frony111]

James, I recognized when reading this quote a popular misunderstanding between the relationship of faith and works. The scripture used was assuming that one's perseverance of faith would be the determining factor of if that individual would be considered worthy of being raptured. Ultimately let us remember that an individuals perseverance is based on God's faithfulness and not ours , , , 1 Corinth 1:8. Perseverance in faith and the doctrine of salvation are always linked in scripture; J, att 24:13. Therefore those who are saved are those who persevere. Also, our good works are foreordained by God, therefore are certain to come to pass . The reality is, that every Christian will be raptured in that day for we are not justified by our works, but by our faith in Christ . Therefore by the basis of Christ's righteousness we are judged and not our own righteousness. This is why we are all one in Christ Remember Christ is coming back for the Church . All Christians will be raptured because we are appointed for salvation.

So do people that believe in the rapture also believe that Christ returns twice first to rapture the church then after the tribulation to consume the beast

 

[Frony111]

I have a question about the tribulation what do you think actually happens at the tribulation are people going to be massacred. Or world war total devastation and destruction.. And if so who causes it satin?

 

[norapture]

So do people that believe in the rapture also believe that Christ returns twice first to rapture the church then after the tribulation to consume the beast

Yes that's what they believe, but they say he don't come to the earth at what they call the rapture . They are some that say its a secret. That people won't see him at the rapture.

 

[Frony111]

James, I recognized when reading this quote a popular misunderstanding between the relationship of faith and works. The scripture used was assuming that one's perseverance of faith would be the determining factor of if that individual would be considered worthy of being raptured. Ultimately let us remember that an individuals perseverance is based on God's faithfulness and not ours , , , 1 Corinth 1:8. Perseverance in faith and the doctrine of salvation are always linked in scripture; J, att 24:13. Therefore those who are saved are those who persevere. Also, our good works are foreordained by God, therefore are certain to come to pass . The reality is, that every Christian will be raptured in that day for we are not justified by our works, but by our faith in Christ . Therefore by the basis of Christ's righteousness we are judged and not our own righteousness. This is why we are all one in Christ Remember Christ is coming back for the Church . All Christians will be raptured because we are appointed for salvation.

Rev. Vs3 God will keep us from the hour of temptation.. OK so is that proof of the rapture maybe for some that would be the only way to escape temptation .. But as for me I'll stay while every other one is raptured out.. Because if you are afraid of falling into temptation you should be gone ... . Also if every Christian is gone why would Christ have to shorten the time for the elects sake.. I hope you are right about Christians being raptured because I would not like to see any of my christian family fall into deception

 

[Frony111]

Yes that's what they believe, but they say he don't come to the earth at what they call the rapture . They are some that say its a secret. That people won't see him at the rapture.

Obviously you know I don't believe in the rapture .. But I k ow people that do and for them to see it how I do would be a lot harder for them because that takes the shield away.. So they don't really want to even hear what I say about there not being a rapture.. But like I have said many times we are still all on The same team we are children of God.... God bless you all. Amen

 

[norapture]

I'm only asking at what part is John taken back from the Lords day and talks about past events?

Revelation 12:1-12 John talks about a woman clothed with the sun and the*moon under her feet and crown of 12 stars in her head . This is Israel the law, the covenant , and 12 tribes
She has a man child, to rule all nation with a rod if iron ,this is Jesus, he was caught up to Gods throne
This is already happened also that
where Jesus is at now. It just don't tell when he was caught but Jesus said no man as ascend up to heaven except he that came from heaven
The Red Dragon is the devil he got cast out of heaven and drew a third part of the stars.(angels) This has happened to, he got kick out along time ago.
It says he stood before the woman to devour her child,: this was when Herold seek to kill Jesus when he was born, and sent men out and commanded them to kill all the children from 2 years and under. This was the devil working in Herold .
Just like he got in Judas to betray the Lord
This is just some things, but there is a lot of people say this is future

 

[norapture]

Obviously you know I don't believe in the rapture .. But I k ow people that do and for them to see it how I do would be a lot harder for them because that takes the shield away.. So they don't really want to even hear what I say about there not being a rapture.. But like I have said many times we are still all on The same team we are children of God.... God bless you all. Amen

Amen I agree 100% The Lord said let us come reason together.
So I want to always agree with his word.

 

[Travis]

The Red Dragon is the devil he got cast out of heaven and drew a third part of the stars.(angels) This has happened to, he got kick out along time ago.

I've always wondered if this could be a double prophecy in a sense. Satan was thrown out of heaven at the beginning. But, which heaven? There are multiple heavens. I think he was thrown out of the third heaven, where God dwells, in the beginning. Perhaps, in the future, he will be thrown out of the second heaven per say, and literally down onto/into the earth.

Just a thought,

Travis