Welcome!

By registering with us, you'll be able to discuss, share and private message with other members of our community.

SignUp Now!
  • Welcome to Talk Jesus Christian Forums

    Celebrating 20 Years!

    A bible based, Jesus Christ centered community.

    Register Log In

Rapture and Tribulation

I'm not sure all of Revelation can be taken in chronological order. For example Rev 12:1-9;
The woman could be Israel or Mary.
The dragon that swept away a third of the starts is likely Satan, and a third of the stars could be a third of the angels.
Rev 12:6; could possibly be about when Joseph and Mary fled to Egypt. ( Matt 2:13-20; ) In's possible the time frames mentioned in verses 6 and 14 were how
long they stayed in Egypt.
But then things get a little harder to follow. The rebellion of Satan and some of the angels in Rev 12:7-9; likely happened way
before the time of Joseph and Mary. In fact probably before Adam and Eve in the garden.

I guess we all have our own opinions and interpretations about things, but to me...
There has not been one world government yet.
There has not been a time recorded in history where people had to take a mark on their foreheads or right hands to buy things.
Other than the flood in Noah's time. There has not been a time when a third of the earth's population died. (In that case it was about 99.999% of the earths population).
There has not been a time in recorded history where a world leader had a mortal wound and was brought back to life. (except Jesus).
There is nothing in recorded history about an image or statue of a man that can miraculously speak and breathe.
There is nothing in recorded history about a lot of Christians disappearing from the face of the earth.
I think it's safe to say there is no time in history yet, where Satan has been thrown into prison for a thousand years.
I think it's safe to say that Jesus and the saints haven't ruled over the earth "with a rod of iron" for 1,000 years yet.
If the New Jerusalem really is a huge city (1500 miles x 1500 miles square) coming down from heaven, I'm pretty sure this would have been recorded in history.
(Not to mention we would be able to see it today).
It seems things like a huge meteor being cast into the sea, and a third of sea life and ships upon the sea being destroyed would have been mentioned somewhere in history.
There is no mention of hailstones weighing 100 pounds each falling all over the earth.
There is no mention of a great earthquake felt all over the world that moves islands and mountains out of their places.
There is nothing in recorded history about a great war in the valley of Armageddon.

It seems the vast majority of the "end times" prophecies have not happened yet. If they have happened, where is Jesus?
Also if they have already happened, why is Satan still running around?
I'm not sure I have all the discernment necessary to tell you all of the prophecies that have already happened.
Some of them certainly have. Some of them may occur more than once, and perhaps some of them have already occurred and may occur again
(the abomination of desolation comes to mind). But at least to me, most of them have not happened yet.
 
So do people that believe in the rapture also believe that Christ returns twice first to rapture the church then after the tribulation to consume the beast
Yes that's what they believe, but they say he don't come to the earth at what they call the rapture . They are some that say its a secret. That people won't see him at the rapture.
No, I believe in rapture and that is not what scripture tells me! There are two "comings" of Jesus. First, he has already come from heaven to earth as the "Suffering Servant" , in which he came alone, in the most humbling circumstances and not to condem but to save mankind. In his second coming, jesus will come from heaven to earth as a " Conquering King" , with a sword and a amry of soldiers at his side. The "Rapture" is not a "coming" to earth, Jesus gathers his church of believers in the air and returns to heaven before the second coming.
 
Where do people get that Revelation 3:10 , has anything to do with a rapture. It doesn't say anything about a rapture.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon, all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It doesn't say I will take you out , of the world for you won't be tempted

And Revelation 3:12 says --him that overcometh , so how can someone overcome if they are not here to overcome.

Most people will be tempted to worship the beast , or take his number or name . But not the ones who have kept the word of his patience, cause Jesus Christ in you will keep you from it. But the world ,
the one's without Christ will be tempted to take it and will take it all of them that's names isn't in the Lambs book of life.
 
Where do people get that Revelation 3:10 , has anything to do with a rapture. It doesn't say anything about a rapture.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon, all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

It doesn't say I will take you out , of the world for you won't be tempted

And Revelation 3:12 says --him that overcometh , so how can someone overcome if they are not here to overcome.

Most people will be tempted to worship the beast , or take his number or name . But not the ones who have kept the word of his patience, cause Jesus Christ in you will keep you from it. But the world ,
the one's without Christ will be tempted to take it and will take it all of them that's names isn't in the Lambs book of life.
We know you don't believe in the Rapture norapture!
Please interpret these sciptures:
  • 1 Thessalonians 4:16 - For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
  • 1 Thessalonians 4:17 - Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
  • 1 Corinthians 15:52 - In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
  • 1 Thessalonians 5:9 - For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
  • 1 Thessalonians 1:10 - And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
 
We know you don't believe in the Rapture norapture!
Please interpret these sciptures:

I will be more that glad to interpret these scriptures. But let me ask you this first is there one scripture here, that says this isn't the coming of the Lord?
 
I will be more that glad to interpret these scriptures. But let me ask you this first is there one scripture here, that says this isn't the coming of the Lord?
My questions first please, after all I did ask first and I don't see where this has any bearing on my simple request.
 
We know you don't believe in the Rapture norapture!
Please interpret these sciptures:

Well RJ to interpreted 1Thessalonians 4:16 The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Just like in Matthew 24:29-31 verse 29 immediately after the tribulation
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man
31-And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet

OK in 1 CORINTHIANS 15:52 says at the last trump the dead shall be raised

So let me ask you RJ if the saints was resurrected at the last trump then how in the world could this trump in Matthew 24:31 be after the last trump? If this isn't the same trump, cause by what you say the last trump happen seven year before this trump in verse 31 of Matthew

Also in Revelation there is seven trumps now if the dead in Christ are resurrected at the last trump then this in Revelation 11:15 this would be when the Lord comes back at the last trump the seventh trump
when the kingdoms of this world becomes the kingdoms of our Lord

RJ would you dare to say that there is a trump after this?. And if there isn't one after this would not this be the last trump?

OK now 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are a live and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

OK RJ ( we which are alive and remain ) remain to what ?

The answer is in verse 15 --For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto THE COMING OF THE LORD shall not prevent them which are a sleep.

So we can see what Paul was talking about its called the COMING of the Lord. He didn't call this a rapture but if you must use this word then this is what Paul was saying--- we which are alive and remain to the COMING of the Lord will be raptured to the sky with all the believers that has died to meet the Lord
Paul never said this was something different than the Lords Coming, he was just telling what happen when the Lord comes back.

RJ here is another question for you, if the Lord isn't coming on down to the earth here with all his saints. Then why didn't he just rapture us all the way to heaven instead of meeting us in the air ?
His word gives different details in different places to the same event all thru scripture.

I will answer the other questions at later time maybe this will help for now.
 
Last edited:
Well RJ to interpreted 1Thessalonians 4:16 is says The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first.
Just like in Matthew 24:29-31 verse 29 immediately after the tribulation
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man
31-And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet

OK in 1 CORINTHIANS 15:52 says at the last trump the dead shall be raised

So let me ask you RJ if the saints was resurrected at the last trump then how in the world could this be after the last trump? If this isn't the same trump, cause by what you say the last trump happen seven year before this trump?

Also in Revelation there is seven trumps now if the dead in Christ are resurrected at the last trump then this would be when the Lord comes back
Revelation 11:15 when the kingdoms of this world becomes the kingdoms of our Lord
RJ would you dare to say that there is a trump after this. And if there isn't one after this would not this be the last trump?

OK now 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are a live and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

OK RJ ( we which are alive and remain ) remain to what ?

The answer is in verse 15 --For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto THE COMING OF THE LORD shall not prevent them which are a sleep.

So we can see what Paul was talking about its called the COMING of the Lord. He didn't call this a rapture but if you must use this word then this is what Paul was saying--- we which are alive and remain to the COMING of the Lord will be raptured to the sky with all the believers that has died to meet the Lord
Paul never said this was something different than the Lords Coming, he was just telling what happen when the Lord comes back.

RJ here is another question for you, if the Lord isn't coming on down to the earth here with all his saints. Then why didn't he just rapture us all the way to heaven instead of meeting us in the air ?
His word gives different details in different places to the same event all thru scripture.

I will answer the other questions at later time maybe this will help for now.
My main points, that I was hoping that you would explain are:
  1. dead in Christ shall rise first:
  2. we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
  3. the dead shall be raised incorruptible
  4. God hath not appointed us to wrath
  5. which delivered us from the wrath to come.
You didn't disappoint me, you can't explain the events because you don't beleive in these written words of God. You just want to be hung up on trumpets and the word Rapture.
You no more have a clue than a non-beleiver, and no one should pay attention to your gibberish.
 
My main points, that I was hoping that you would explain are:
  1. dead in Christ shall rise first:
  2. we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:
  3. the dead shall be raised incorruptible
  4. God hath not appointed us to wrath
  5. which delivered us from the wrath to come.
You didn't disappoint me, you can't explain the events because you don't beleive in these written words of God. You just want to be hung up on trumpets and the word Rapture.
You no more have a clue than a non-beleiver, and no one should pay attention to your gibberish.


RJ have I become your enemy now that I have told you the truth.
I always heard the truth hurts
I would say that cut you to the bone
 
RJ have I become your enemy now that I have told you the truth.
I always heard the truth hurts
I would say that cut you to the bone
You know, I never looked at it that way, perhaps you are the enemy in sheeps clothing because your truth is not Biblical and really anti-God. It is you that brings up the word hate , not I!...I have no hate for you as you say, perhaps you hate yourself.
Again, Hate is you word, not mine; but, I do feel sorry for you and pray for you. Maybe if you change your name from norapture to "nohope" maybe God would shed some light on you someday! God Bless
 
Last edited:
You know, I never looked at it that way, perhaps you are the enemy in sheeps clothing because your truth is not Biblical and really anti-God. It is you that brings up the word hate , not I!...I have no hate for you as you say, perhaps you hate yourself.
Again, Hate is you word, not mine; but, I do feel sorry for you and pray for you. Maybe if you change your name from norapture to "nohope" maybe God would shed some light on you someday! God Bless

RJ the truth is from the first time you seen the name on this site you have despised me. And anyone can go back and look at the post between me and you from the first to the last even on different subjects and see that.
Even your post yesterday that you ask me to interpret scripture. The first first sentence says how you fill about me . Then your reply to what I said is even more prove. See RJ you never want to try to understand what those verses meant, but rather you was hoping to slander me, this is the reason you even reply ( that I didn't disappoint you) see RJ the Lord knows what your about so its nothing to me , when you speak evil of me
I never said hate go look back at the post. But I would say God is watching and he let that word come from you because like I said, you have despised
My site name. But for the record my name is not norapture so you. See you despise me for no reason. But I forgive you may the Lord do also.
 
RJ the truth is from the first time you seen the name on this site you have despised me. And anyone can go back and look at the post between me and you from the first to the last even on different subjects and see that.
Even your post yesterday that you ask me to interpret scripture. The first first sentence says how you fill about me . Then your reply to what I said is even more prove. See RJ you never want to try to understand what those verses meant, but rather you was hoping to slander me, this is the reason you even reply ( that I didn't disappoint you) see RJ the Lord knows what your about so its nothing to me , when you speak evil of me
I never said hate go look back at the post. But I would say God is watching and he let that word come from you because like I said, you have despised
My site name. But for the record my name is not norapture so you. See you despise me for no reason. But I forgive you may the Lord do also.
I have never said I despise you and I don't by the way. I quess what you are precieving is like love the sinner but hate the sin. In this context, I don't despise you but perhaps it is because I depise your false teaching...here is just a couple of yours:
  • You said: OK in 1 CORINTHIANS 15:52 says at the last trump the dead shall be raised
    So let me ask you RJ if the saints was resurrected at the last trump then how in the world could this trump in
    Matthew 24:31 be after the last trump? If this isn't the same trump, cause by what you say the last trump happen seven year before this trump in verse 31 of Matthew
    I have no idea what your talking about here with regards to me. I have never said anything about the last trump other than qouting scripture. If you have a problem with scripture take it up with God please and not me!
  • You said: OK now 1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are a live and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
    OK RJ ( we which are alive and remain ) remain to what ?
    You have your own agenda and therefore can't explain simple scripture. The simple truth is this is all about Jesus gathering his church. The church are the believers. According to scripture, the dead believers are raised first. And here is your answer to (remain to what ? )
    After the dead believers are raised in the air, the those live believers (who remain behind) are, in the blink of an eye, caught up with the raised dead and meet the Lord in the air.
  • Here is a simplified sequence of events that you just cant seem to understand:

  1. Jesus came to the earth as a baby and was a Suffering Saviour not to judge or conquer but to save.
  2. Jesus wil come, only to the air, gather his church of dead and alive believers and return to heaven.
  3. Jesus will come to earth a second time and he will come not to save but to judge and conquer with a sword in his hand and a army by his side.
  4. Now these are the truth, please don't twist or try to rearrange or deny these!
 
@RJ and @norapture

If you are brothers in Christ Jesus, then you both should be able to disagree and still reflect the Love of Christ. Doctrinal differences not withstanding. Come to a consensus to either agree to disagree or find another model for determining correctiness of your positions.
Maybe, putting it to the community here at TJ as a poll question? Similiar to what Peter and the church did at Jerusalem when Paul presented the case for the Gentiles in respect to them following the Jewish circumcision requirement.

Get together and come up with the question "Rapture Yes or No/Scriptural certainity or Faulty Theology"
Provide mutliple choice answers to a limit of 4
Each choosing 2. With the first being Yes. The second being No. Third and fourth can be choosen by one of you. Allow maybe for a fifth question being: I'm not sure. Sixth maybe: Things can be said for either position, but all I care about is being with the Lord when He calls me home.

If you both decide to continue on. Please try to remember that you are Children of the Most High, and should always try to reflect the love of Christ in both word and deed.
Love you both brothers.
C4E

Iron sharpens iron. Don't let it destroy what is precious in the eyes of God. Both of you!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top