Hitch
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Hmmmm if gathering wages is righteous, doesnt the same hold true for other means of profit ?
"Rich" Christians?
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Rhema
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What you do IS who you are.May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are.That will determine your destination.
Lest we forget:who you are, dictates what you do
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
(James 2:18 KJV)
Rhema (late to the party...)
PloughBoy
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I have over 44 years in the Text and I have the wounds and the Scars, i have travel down "The Via Dolorosa" and "The Paraclete" has walked right beside me and comforted me. And HE is my witness.
Now tell me do I need more? I got a 2 "ADVOCATES".My witnesses will "TRUMP" yours any day in the PARK and any day in the "Entire: Universe" 'bring your works on'
And like my Granddaddy use to say: "and you can put that in Your Pipe and Smoke it"
@PloughBoy
???
please explain this comment.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
James 1:19-20
My witnesses will "TRUMP" yours any day in the PARK and any day in the "Entire: Universe" 'bring your works on'
And like my Granddaddy use to say: "and you can put that in Your Pipe and Smoke it"
???
please explain this comment.
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Wherefore, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath: for the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
James 1:19-20
Dave M
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Ok Forget treasure or "possessions" as you call them , i think youre playing with words here, but if you admit to being "Filthy Rich", then how do you reconcile your Riches with Christs Warning that it will be easier for a Camel to go through the Eye of a needle than a Rich man enter Heaven.
And if your "possessions" mean little or nothing to you then why not sell them and give the proceeds to the poor, that way youre not only avoiding Christs condemnation, youre also storing up Treasure in heaven, seems like a Win Win situation to me.
Youre seriously running with this Admon,
Luke 6:20-38 King James Version
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.
30 Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
31 And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.
33 And if ye do good to them which do good to you, what thank have ye? for sinners also do even the same.
34 And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again.
35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.
36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.
vs 24 -25 seem a pretty convincing uplifting of the Poor the hungry, the sorrowful and those persecuted for Christs sake, and vs 24 and 25 a condemnation of the rich and comfortable, and weve been through Lazarus and the Rich man, and the story of Zacchaeus and the almost impossibility of a rich man entering heaven as depicted by the Camel going through the eye of a needle.
And in Lazarus and the Rich man Christ says precisely that the Rich man was condemned to Hell because he enjoyed good things in his life and now he will suffer.
And ive not taken vs 24 out of context , its exactly in context with Christs other teachings on Riches, so if you can find one verse where Christ says its OK to be rich then fire away, because believe me it would make my life a whole lot easier and a whole lot more comfortable too, But then how would i be taking up my Cross, denying myself and following where Christ has already led.
Why would i be "envious" of those condemned by Christ?, and i define "just" as Loving your neighbour as yourself and treating others as youd want them to treat you, does that sound familiar?.
And just where have i said i have any "right to anyone elses property", im quoting what Christ said in the Gospels to those that profess to follow him , you should try reading it sometime.
And be careful when you talk of whats yours, you are aware of US history i take it, the US was founded on Conquest, theft and Genocide on a vast scale, hardly "just" is it, whether you define "just" in Scriptural terms or "common humanistic means".
Hitch
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Your envy is demonstrated when you whine that your government declined to spend its stolen money on projects you like. Wouldnt 'love' demand that people be free to give as their own heart dictates without threats or sanctions ?
So love in your case means using the force of government to make sure other peoples money is spent the way you like.
Well Sweetie England wasnt always Anglo-Saxon , but thanks for the demonstration of shallowness, not that I can imagine anyone takes you seriously.
How is it annoying or childish to quote the words of Christ?, and when Christ condemns Riches on so many occasions, which if you take the time to read the posts on this topic, have been written down so many times , then you should understand that the possession of them is not a ", blessing" but a condemnation, but perhaps neither Christ or myself are making ourselves clear.
So ill quote him again just to make it clear, " do not store up treasure on Earth,... for where your treasure is your heart will be also", "its easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man enter heaven, "woe to you that are Rich for you have received your consolation", the story of Lazarus and the Rich man where the rich man was condemned to Hell for enjoying his riches and the good things in life, and the story of Zacchaeus who was only saved after hed given away his wealth, is that clear enough for you?.
And if youve finished with the insults and the name calling, perhaps you could quote me from the Gospels where Christ says its OK to be rich, and please , quote me from the "Gospel of Jesus Christ" and not the "Gospel of Reba1".
Im well aware of my history sweetie, as i am of the corrupt world economic system that puts the bulk of the worlds resources into the hands of the favoured few, you should study it sometime before you start whining about whats "yours".
And im sure if you were one of the many hundreds of millions struggling to survive you might have a different view of what constitutes "love", and if you truly love Christ i suggest you read Matthew 25 vs 31-46, The Sheep and the goats, you might just learn something. Yes i would really like to take people like you and drop you in the slums of Kibera or Dhaka or a thousand other hell holes of poverty and suffering in this world and leave you there for a year , see what you think then, yep you might have a different view of what Loving your neighbour as yourself and treating others as youd like to be treated actually means, cause it seems to me you know nothing about it.
But back to the thread, have you found those words of Christ that justify you having so much while others have so little, because i would love to see it.
Reba1
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Been thinking about this thread for a while... A few thoughts or questions have come across my mind/heart.
Do we support the rich with our dollars?
who here shops at walmart ? making the rich richer
Why not shop at the small business guy place?
who eats at a 'chain cafe' again padding the CEOs pockets while justifying your self with the waitress needs a job.
who here supports the likes of twitter and facebook, is financially supporting the supper rich contributing to their possible sin?
Do the rich have value other then just their dollar?
Who here will approach a poor man asking for a job?
We all understand the widow who gave her all that is her blessing but the rich man who gives 2 million does more good for others even if it is not his all.
What is rich? How much is rich? Where is the line ? The thieves that use the gospel to buy planes will get their rewards. Those that give letting everyone know they gave have their reward.
Is owning or buying a home rich, or should we pay rent to enrich the landlord.
Am i rich ?
NO! yet i have been blessed with more 'things' then i ever thought possible growing up.
Do we support the rich with our dollars?
who here shops at walmart ? making the rich richer
Why not shop at the small business guy place?
who eats at a 'chain cafe' again padding the CEOs pockets while justifying your self with the waitress needs a job.
who here supports the likes of twitter and facebook, is financially supporting the supper rich contributing to their possible sin?
Do the rich have value other then just their dollar?
Who here will approach a poor man asking for a job?
We all understand the widow who gave her all that is her blessing but the rich man who gives 2 million does more good for others even if it is not his all.
What is rich? How much is rich? Where is the line ? The thieves that use the gospel to buy planes will get their rewards. Those that give letting everyone know they gave have their reward.
Is owning or buying a home rich, or should we pay rent to enrich the landlord.
Am i rich ?
NO! yet i have been blessed with more 'things' then i ever thought possible growing up.
Admon Mikha'el
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Reba1
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29 But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he was attacked by robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead.
31 A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side.
32 So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side.
33 But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him.
34 He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, brought him to an inn and took care of him.
35 The next day he took out two denariiand gave them to the innkeeper. ‘Look after him,’ he said, ‘and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.’
36 “Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?”
37 The expert in the law replied, “The one who had mercy on him.” Jesus told him, “Go and do likewise.
Pro_28:20 A faithful man shall abound with blessings: but he that maketh haste to be rich shall not be innocent.
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Pro 31:10 Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies.
Pro 31:11 The heart of her husband doth safely trust in her, so that he shall have no need of spoil.
Pro 31:12 She will do him good and not evil all the days of her life.
Pro 31:13 She seeketh wool, and flax, and worketh willingly with her hands.
Pro 31:14 She is like the merchants' ships; she bringeth her food from afar.
Pro 31:15 She riseth also while it is yet night, and giveth meat to her household, and a portion to her maidens.
Pro 31:16 She considereth a field, and buyeth it: with the fruit of her hands she planteth a vineyard.
Pro 31:17 She girdeth her loins with strength, and strengtheneth her arms.
Pro 31:18 She perceiveth that her merchandise is good: her candle goeth not out by night.
Pro 31:19 She layeth her hands to the spindle, and her hands hold the distaff.
Pro 31:20 She stretcheth out her hand to the poor; yea, she reacheth forth her hands to the needy.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet.
Pro 31:22 She maketh herself coverings of tapestry; her clothing is silk and purple.
Pro 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.
Pro 31:24 She maketh fine linen, and selleth it; and delivereth girdles unto the merchant.
Pro 31:25 Strength and honour are her clothing; and she shall rejoice in time to come.
Pro 31:26 She openeth her mouth with wisdom; and in her tongue is the law of kindness.
Pro 31:27 She looketh well to the ways of her household, and eateth not the bread of idleness.
Pro 31:28 Her children arise up, and call her blessed; her husband also, and he praiseth her.
Pro 31:29 Many daughters have done virtuously, but thou excellest them all.
Pro 31:30 Favour is deceitful, and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the LORD, she shall be praised.
Pro 31:31 Give her of the fruit of her hands; and let her own works praise her in the gates.
PloughBoy
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Ok, i am going to try to make this very simple and short n "layman" terms. Because i am long winded and always to much great details. now everything is going to line up. Just be patience with me here.
Rhema directed this to me:
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Less we forget
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
(James 2:18 KJV)
Rhema (late to the party...)
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And maybe i miss understood it. "I took it to mean: He was saying he has works and i do not have any." and I am late at the party.
His copy and paste and his response here:
His reply to a portion of my postPloughBoy said:
May i say this again it is not what you do, it is, who you are.
"What you do IS who you are." He is replying i am dead wrong and false and making false Biblical statements and i am in "Complete error"
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So I responded adamantly: to defend it and prove him false. Now I will show, how I am standing on "The ROCK". And i will not take "JAMES" completely apart concerning his intentions of his common statement , concerning works. only in this short: "I man may say he loves his wife, how does he show it" "A woman may say she loves here husband, how does she shows it" " a man or woman, may say they love their home, how do they show it" A man may say he is a "woman" how does he show it? A woman may say she is a man, how does she show it? "By works"
His attack on a "SENTENCE" on my statement pertaining to "who you are". BUT i believe my security Tops his "works statement". [TRUMPS} meaning ranks above his "works"
WORKS:
English Standard Version
On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ "I never knew you"
It is Who you are:
King James Bible
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
(John 14)
And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Advocate
to be with you forever— the Spirit of truth. The world cannot receive Him, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him. But you do know Him, for He abides with you and will be in you."Some might have works to justify them, But some of us have "The PARACLETE and JESUS" and Those two "TRUMPS" all
and on top that "We Belongs to The FATHER before "The Foundations of The WORLD" and that Makes 3. better know as "The TRIUNE GOD" who is "Our FATHER"can i say it: "And they can put that in their Pipe and Smoke it" [Meaning that is the Truth whether we welcome it or not]
[many might not like it but no one comes to "CHRIST" unless THE FATHER DRAGS them there with a "Irresistible" grace. For we have always BEEN the SHEEP of GOD and Never been a GOAT and never been a "Weed" but alway been "WHEAT" "The Good Seed" before the Foundation of WORLD. Whether we welcome "THE TRUTH" or not it is "TRUE".]
Now the Historic quote: And please take in account of "etymology" and hostile bias in modern day definitions.
"you can shake on it"
"a man's bond is his word"
"you can put that in your pipe and smoke it"
All of these quotes where popular at one time.
You can google all of this. popular phrases they where at one time. Now today there are so many definitions of words and phrases now.
Phrases that once were popular "Parents" telling your kids, or others. "It is the Truth whether you welcome it or not" that what it really meant, when a whole lot of men and women smoke pipes. "Now you can put that in your pipe and smoke it" some may say in popular "etymology" at times it could be "derogatory" depends on how and the volume you use it.
Example:
A black person might see his friend approaching; and say "hey dog whats happening". or his "grandchild" outside viewer might thing how un intelligent is that. But sees nothing wrong with a "Australia" guy greets his friend "hey Mate" how you doing. Now in USA, what is a Man's Best Friend" " A DOG"
Another: Why does a man shake another person with their right hand? Because they wipe their behind with their left! and that is why we shake with the Right.
Now back then when we were growing up, you could not say the word "HELL" if you did you got slap, for Hell is a cursing word.
a derogatory word. Only the preacher could say "Hell Fire and Brimstone". You better not let "grown folks" hear you say "Hell". Today they call them "ADULTS" and how did that began. It began with "ADULTS ONLY" meaning Porn. You had to wait until you had become an "ADULT" before you could enjoy porn.Smoking Pipes use to be a good thing, My Granddaddy smoke pipe. He quoted that many times to his children and people and my daddy quoted that to me as i was growing up! And they where MEN! Their word was their BOND! today these men walk around taking orders from women and wearing dresses and high heels shoes. Oh' you offend me.
You hurt my feelings, you are mean you have to be more kinder, I might look like a man but i am a woman. You cannot tells people "The TRUTH" today, You might get locked up. ["Now you can put that in your Pipe and smoke it"]... they will lock you up. I hope you kinda see what that means.. many younger men refer to me as "old School", a good way.Do that make it kinda clear. a culture idiom.
I tried to make my explanation short as i could. i did. but if only you knew the long version.
.
PloughBoy
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My question is "exalted by who and where" exalted on planet earth and among men" or are you referring to the Hold host of HEAVEN as they look on and are waiting for "The Manifestation of The Sons of GOD"
And it could be this:(Galatians 1)
"Am I now seeking the approval of men, or of God? Or am I striving to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ. ..For I certify to you, brothers, that the gospel I preached was not devised by man. I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.…" The letter form Paul.
Hitch
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Actually the capitalism you hate grants the benefits of labor, industry and thrift to the widest spectrum of consumers. You hate private property because you rebel against God's law , as common a malady as the sniffles.
Better yet I'll send you , one way of course ,, you up ?
LOL No you wouldnt because I've already posted it and you ignored it, add that I noticed several times your grasping against 'the rich' has been corrected . But then the cause is more important the reality ,,, yawn.
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