Should I Always Forgive Everyone in Every Way?

[Strypes]

Well we are certainly not "born of God" if we sin and do not have His Spirit dwelling inside of us.
1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
You see, all sin is from Satan, and Satan is not "worse than sin", Satan and sin go hand in hand like God and holiness.
As sinful beings as we leave our mothers womb, we're not "born of God" (otherwise there would be no requirement to be 'born again') so I don't know who else it could possibly be other than we are born of Satan's seed.

Misquoting scripture now .... Read what the passages says... Whomever makes a practice of sinning is of the Devil.

I would highly recommend continuing reading in 1 John 3 and read on through to chapter four. Especially verses 7-8

Beloved let us love one another for love is of God and everyone that loves is born of God. and knows God but he who loves not knows not God for God is love.

 

[james1523]

Misquoting scripture now .... Read what the passages says... Whomever makes a practice of sinning is of the Devil.

I would highly recommend continuing reading in 1 John 3 and read on through to chapter four. Especially verses 7-8

Beloved let us love one another for love is of God and everyone that loves is born of God. and knows God but he who loves not knows not God for God is love.

I don't see the word "practice" there in that verse (KJV translation), so I think it is you who is misquoting scripture. But suppose it does say practice, it doesn't change the fact that everybody sins whether in small ways or big ways (yes even small children) and therefore everybody is influenced by the Devil (via sin in the flesh). Jesus even called Peter's considerate human opinion to be of Satan (Matt 16:23). The problem is we refuse to see our sin as being "as bad as Satan" and therefore we still hold a degree of self-righteousness which ultimately limits the degree to which we can appreciate Christ's death and receive His righteousness. Another false doctrine is the one that says that children don't need Jesus - well yes they do, they are sinners too.

 

[Strypes]

I don't see the word "practice" there in that verse (KJV translation), so I think it is you who is misquoting scripture. But suppose it does say practice, it doesn't change the fact that everybody sins (yes even small children) and therefore everybody is influenced by the Devil (via sin in the flesh).

"Influenced" and "born of" are significantly different.

Ok I was quoting you and when I posted my post (this now an edit) you deleted the second part from your post... how odd.

 

[james1523]

"Influenced" and "born of" are significantly different.

Please allow me to clear up the language.
You don't need to "practice sin" before it becomes the influence of Satan - Jesus called Peter Satan and Peter wasn't making a practice or habit about it.
We are "influenced" because we are "born of" - it's that simple.
We say we are "born of God" which means we are influenced by the Holy Spirit inside of us (we were not actually born of God like Christ was).
We say we are "born of the devil" which means we are influenced by the sin in the flesh inside of us (we were not actually born of Satan).
"Born of" means the influence is not an external one but an inward one, and "of the devil" implies being "born of" the devil in the sense of an inward influence.
Some believe that our human birth is a neutral experience (we are innocent little babies), but I believe the sinful flesh is already there, it just needs time to be expressed (when the baby is grown and develops the ability to communicate).
Hope that clears it up for you.
But I am disturbed if professed Christians are portraying sin as a neutral thing independent of the influence of Satan - not saying that you are, but some do.

 

[Strypes]

Please allow me to clear up the language.
We say we are "born of God" which means we are influenced by the Holy Spirit inside of us (we were not actually born of God like Christ was).
We say we are "born of the devil" which means we are influenced by the sin in the flesh inside of us (we were not actually born of Satan).
"Born of" means the influence is not an external one but an inward one, and "of the devil" implies being "born of" the devil in the sense of an inward influence.
Hope that clears it up for you.

Balderdash!

I have been born of the Holy Spirit of God.

Your Daddy may be the Devil himself. I have been reading your post for a while now and you are in "The Practice" of posting twisted doctrines and some really strange answers. This thread especially.

 

[james1523]

Balderdash!

I have been born of the Holy Spirit of God.

Your Daddy may be the Devil himself. I have been reading your post for a while now and you are in "The Practice" of posting twisted doctrines and some really strange answers. This thread especially.

Yes you have been now, but before you were a Christian, were you still "born of God"? Are you saying before you were a Christian, you were such a good person that never sinned and in no way influenced by the devil? And now as a Christian, if you sin, are you attributing that sin to the Holy Spirit? (because you are in no way influenced by the devil).
Remember that Jesus did not hesitate to say that his beloved disciple Peter, was influenced by Satan. I don't think that being born of the Spirit implies that we are not influenced by the devil.

 

[Strypes]

1 John 4

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.


7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.


We do not have the seed of Satan when we are born in the flesh. We have the seed of Adam.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[e] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Be teachable and realize your error and learn from your mistakes.

 

[james1523]

Proof that sin in the flesh = devil

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Comparing Romans 8:3 and Hebrews 2:14, we can see that God condemning sin in the flesh, and destroying the devil, are the same thing. How did God defeat the Devil? The Devil certainly didn't die on the cross - so what then? The death of Christ's flesh, made in the likeness of our sinful flesh, was the destruction of the devil. Therefore "sin in the flesh", is the devil.

 

[james1523]

1 John 4

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.


7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. 10 In this is love, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us.


We do not have the seed of Satan when we are born in the flesh. We have the seed of Adam.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men[e] because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. 14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.

15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. 16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. 17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.

Be teachable and realize your error and learn from your mistakes.

Anyone can quote verses, but understanding them is another thing.
There are 3 seeds.
We have the seed of Adam because we are human beings.
We have the "seed" of God because we have the Spirit (1 John 3:9)
We have the "seed" of Satan because we have sin in the flesh.

Yet you believe that if we are "of the devil", as we were before we became Christians, we are in no way influenced by him.

You are not my teacher for a few reasons,
1) you are a woman and I am a man (please apply the same rigor to this verse 1 Tim 2:12 as you do to 1 John 3:8)
2) the Holy Spirit and God's Word is my teacher (1 John 2:20), first and foremost.

 

[Strypes]

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Hebrews 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Comparing Romans 8:3 and Hebrews 2:14, we can see that God condemning sin in the flesh, and destroying the devil, are the same thing. How did God defeat the Devil? The Devil certainly didn't die on the cross - so what then? The death of Christ's flesh, made in the likeness of our sinful flesh, was the destruction of the devil. Therefore "sin in the flesh", is the devil.

Obviously your unteachable spirit continues to spew error.

This thread about forgiveness has totally jumped the shark..

Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

 

[james1523]

Obviously your unteachable spirit continues to spew error.

This thread about forgiveness has totally jumped the shark..

Obviously the one who thinks that others must be teachable and accountable to them, is the one with an issue. I for one, did not divert from the topic with personal attacks. But I am not offended if others say I am from the devil because that's what they said of Christ, and honestly I would agree that my sin is somehow linked to the devil, because it exposes my unrighteousness and shows Christ's righteousness more clearly. The issue of sin in the flesh has a lot to do with this topic of forgiveness in this thread. If we have nothing to be forgiven of, then we are perfect, and if we are perfect, we are not influenced by satan at all.

 

[james1523]

Obviously your unteachable spirit continues to spew error.

This thread about forgiveness has totally jumped the shark..

Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.

Yes thankyou for calling me a fool and you said something previously about being born of the Holy Spirit? Jesus never called me a fool before but probably His children have. But I am not here to judge anyone, yet it is amazing how some get all hot under the collar when you suggest that they were once (or are now) influenced by the devil. Jesus encountered the same phenomena with the Pharisees.
A person who realizes their self-rottenness is a person who is not offended.

 

[Strypes]

Obviously the one who thinks that others must be teachable and accountable to them, is the one with an issue. I for one, did not divert from the topic with personal attacks. But I am not offended if others say I am from the devil because that's what they said of Christ, and honestly I would agree that my sin is somehow linked to the devil, because it exposes my unrighteousness and shows Christ's righteousness more clearly. The issue of sin in the flesh has a lot to do with this topic of forgiveness in this thread. If we have nothing to be forgiven of, then we are perfect, and if we are perfect, we are not influenced by satan at all.

You are not accountable to me. You ARE accountable to God.

As for "personal attacks" you were the one that said you were "born of Satan" then tried to explain it away as influence.

I gave you the scriptures that explain sin came through one man, Adam. Instead of considering the passage you fly back with more balderdash.

I am done here. tootles.

 

[james1523]

You are not accountable to me. You ARE accountable to God.

As for "personal attacks" you were the one that said you were "born of Satan" then tried to explain it away as influence.

I gave you the scriptures that explain sin came through one man, Adam. Instead of considering the passage you fly back with more balderdash.

I am done here. tootles.

Sin does come through Adam, I agree totally.
But Adam was created perfect originally, so the sin did not come from Adam, but the one who "sinned from the beginning" and deceived him.
"born of" does mean influence, no one is actually born of God, or they would be like Jesus Christ.

 

[Chad]

Yes thankyou for calling me a fool and you said something previously about being born of the Holy Spirit? Jesus never called me a fool before but probably His children have. But I am not here to judge anyone, yet it is amazing how some get all hot under the collar when you suggest that they were once (or are now) influenced by the devil. Jesus encountered the same phenomena with the Pharisees.
A person who realizes their self-rottenness is a person who is not offended.

James,

She did not call you a fool. However, based on your 1,700+ posts I do not recall even a single time you took full correction from anyone. Can you show me at least 10 posts where you admitted you were wrong about the topic that was discussed?

Every believer must have a teachable, humble spirit. None of us knows it all and everyone will always have ample room for growth and learning until they breathe their last breath.

It's obvious ample here disagree with your comments, yet you continue defending your post that we're born of Satan. Try preaching that at the pulpit, you'll likely get verbally slaughtered by people.

Learn. Learn to word things in simple to understand ways. Confusion is from the devil. You speak in ways that does in deed causes strife and confusion. Learn.

 

[Travis]

Well we are certainly not "born of God" if we sin and do not have His Spirit dwelling inside of us.
1 John 3:8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning.
You see, all sin is from Satan, and Satan is not "worse than sin", Satan and sin go hand in hand like God and holiness.
As sinful beings as we leave our mothers womb, we're not "born of God" (otherwise there would be no requirement to be 'born again') so I don't know who else it could possibly be other than we are born of Satan's seed.

Hey James,

I think I see what you are saying in one sense, In that all flesh is born corrupt. I'm not sure I feel comfortable stating that every human being who is born is, "born of Satan," though. I just don't find that to be the way the bible describes it I guess...

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.​

Cain and Abel were both born in sin. But, I don't think it's accurate to call Abel a "child of Satan," or something similar. The label definitely applies to Cain though. But, it seems to me, this is because of something else, not just the fact that he was merely born in general.

¯\(°_o)/¯

Travis

 

[james1523]

Hey James,

I think I see what you are saying in one sense, In that all flesh is born corrupt. I'm not sure I feel comfortable stating that every human being who is born is, "born of Satan," though. I just don't find that to be the way the bible describes it I guess...

1 John 3:12
12 Not as Cain, [who] was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.​

Cain and Abel were both born in sin. But, I don't think it's accurate to call Abel a "child of Satan," or something similar. The label definitely applies to Cain though. But, it seems to me, this is because of something else, not just the fact that he was merely born in general.

¯\(°_o)/¯

Travis

We can break this down to make it simpler. Adam had a sinful nature, I think we all agree. Next question - did it come from God, himself, or Satan?
From God - not correct, God does not create sin (i know Spockrates may latch onto this point as it seems to contradict what I said previously)
From man - also not correct, because God created man perfect.
From Satan - by the process of elimination, sin must come from Satan.

But we should think about what "comes from" means. Sin is simply the absence of righteousness. Just as darkness is the absence of light. There is no such thing as darkness in and of itself. So God did not create sin nor create darkness - sin and darkness is the absence of righteousness and light.
Therefore when we say sin comes from Satan, we mean that Satan caused man to disobey God. This ability to disobey God (the darkness) has existed in the human race ever since. It is simply teh absence of light - the absence of God's presence.
To be "born again" or "born of God", is when the indwelling of the Holy Spirit (the presence of light) comes and gives us the ability to obey God once again.
Whenever a person sins, it is a reminder that we all have the ability to disobey God, this is "sin in the flesh", it was "born of Satan" in the sense that Satan caused it to exist in the human race.
This misunderstanding comes, because most people believe in the Hollywood Satan - the ugly looking creature with horns and big flapping wings, and associate him with really bad stuff such as ritual satanic sacrifice. But when Jesus called Peter Satan in Matt 16:23, it was not because Jesus thought Satan was indwelt by or was an ugly creature with horns and wings, Jesus was referring to the principle within Peter's flesh, which was his human opinion being disobedient to God's will (obedience, that Christ should go to the cross). People, even Christians, still believe they are inherently good apart from Christ, they do not see that even a small "white lie" is in fact from the devil. Before we become Christians, we are all under his influence but we do not know it. Even after we become Christians, we are also influenced by the devil (ever told a lie since becoming a Christian?), but do not know it, and few are willing to admit it, until God shows us just how bad we really are.

 

[james1523]

James,

She did not call you a fool. However, based on your 1,700+ posts I do not recall even a single time you took full correction from anyone. Can you show me at least 10 posts where you admitted you were wrong about the topic that was discussed?

Every believer must have a teachable, humble spirit. None of us knows it all and everyone will always have ample room for growth and learning until they breathe their last breath.

It's obvious ample here disagree with your comments, yet you continue defending your post that we're born of Satan. Try preaching that at the pulpit, you'll likely get verbally slaughtered by people.

Learn. Learn to word things in simple to understand ways. Confusion is from the devil. You speak in ways that does in deed causes strife and confusion. Learn.

It is fine if you don't believe in total depravity, but your comments regarding confusion and not taking "correction" are absurd. Please name one true Christian or Prophet in the Bible (including Jesus) who did not cause strife and confusion via their words? Your logic is thus - math is confusion, therefore math is from the devil. Paul's writings are hard to understand and confusing, therefore Paul must be of the devil. Perhaps it is not the author that is the confusion of the devil, but the reader?

Does "ample" mean three people? (yourself, fragrant grace, Strypes)? Are numbers of people who agree with you the litmus test of orthodoxy?
There are 100 people in my church who agree with me on this. Perhaps it is you who are not regarding the "ample" evidence? Should I invite them all to sign up for an account on this site?

I don't think you will find many people who will admit they are wrong on this site. Perhaps you should make "10 posts of admission that you are wrong", a standard test for judgement of teachability and humility?

Hopefully you can see that your statements are absurd, and perhaps instead of telling others how much they do or do not admit they are wrong, you should lead by example as Christ would, as I have never seen you admit that you are wrong. Honestly I don't think you have it in you. Where is your teachable and humble spirit Chad? You are just a brother in Christ, not any more or any less.

Perhaps that is not because they are unteachable and not humble, but because they have not been convinced enough. I will admit that I could be wrong. I can and do change my viewpoint if convinced otherwise. For example, I used to state the importance of keeping the law. Now I know that it is entirely God's grace and we are not under law. I believe an admission that I could be wrong, shows more humility than a person who says another is "unteachable and spewing error", but I am not offended because I know that we all have emotions. But I will not admit that I am wrong unless there is enough evidence. Suppose I have acquired this teaching from my own church, in my church I have accepted everything the pastor teaches. Therefore I am teachable and humble. But just because I am not convinced by the viewpoint that another holds, does not mean I am not teachable or humble. We are from different churches and different backgrounds, we should expect others to hold different viewpoints. We should not judge their character when they hold to a different viewpoint. Yes I argue the case for my viewpoint, but I have never claimed that a person who does not agree with me is not teachable and not humble.

 

[Spockrates]

James:

I admire your composure in the face of opposition. You are certainly showing by example what it is to not blame!



And you are showing me how being a Calvinist must make it easy to forgive. To do otherwise would be illogical.

For who gets the credit when a Christian does right? God alone. The Christian herself is not responsible, because she has no freedom of will to make the choice to do what is right. The choice is made for her by God. She has nothing to do with it.

And who is to blame when the Christian does wrong? The devil alone. The Christian herself is not responisble, because she has no freedom of will to make the choice to sin. The choice is made for her by the devil. She has nothing to do with it.

So it is easy to not blame. For to blame someone for something of which she cannot possibly be held accountable is illogical, foolish in the extreme, and to use a popular phrase from this discussion, based on complete balderdash!

Forgiveness, since it is a lack of blame, is a matter of logic. Just as only an irrational or insane person would ever deny 1 + 1 always equals 2, so too, only an irrational or insane person would ever blame anyone.

Now these are not yet my opinions, because I'm not fully convinced freewill does not exist. But please tell me if I'm right in thinking they must be your own.

 

[grandmamary1219]

You are not accountable to me. You ARE accountable to God.

As for "personal attacks" you were the one that said you were "born of Satan" then tried to explain it away as influence.

I gave you the scriptures that explain sin came through one man, Adam. Instead of considering the passage you fly back with more balderdash.

I am done here. tootles.

AMEN sister!!!