Signs before Jesus comes

rodd · Apr 28, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
2 Thessalonians 2:8-12
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

God will choose the antichrist by making the nonbelievers believe him.

"Believing the lie" has to do with the coming signs and wonders designed to make unbelievers believe the deceptions of Antichrist and the false prophet in their ambition of desiring worship,.......... the personage of Antichrist was decided by God before time began, and scripture prophesies about his identity.
Non believers are not in the position to choose any other, the lie is something other than just a mere deception of a man, that's happened many times in history and is at this moment,.......the lie is that we were formed by or genetically developed from a lower species by aliens,.......that's their cover! "demons in reality", there will likely be an emergence of demonic beings to resist the return of Jesus Christ to Earth, this is the lie that will cover their true identity. This is speculation of course but scripture alludes to this possibility.
I think this may occur after the rapture, and not before while Christians are on the earth.

This may seem strange to you, but 'if we are' on the verge of Christs' return, we should expect unnatural activity to take place. Although they cannot create or do miracles like God, Satan and his demons are evil deceptive geniuses, with technologies way beyond our knowledge.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 28, 2013

rodd said:
"Believing the lie" has to do with the coming signs and wonders designed to make unbelievers believe the deceptions of Antichrist and the false prophet in their ambition of desiring worship,.......... the personage of Antichrist was decided by God before time began, and scripture prophesies about his identity.
Non believers are not in the position to choose any other, the lie is something other than just a mere deception of a man, that's happened many times in history and is at this moment,.......the lie is that we were formed by or genetically developed from a lower species by aliens,.......that's their cover! "demons in reality", there will likely be an emergence of demonic beings to resist the return of Jesus Christ to Earth, this is the lie that will cover their true identity. This is speculation of course but scripture alludes to this possibility.
I think this may occur after the rapture, and not before while Christians are on the earth.

This may seem strange to you, but 'if we are' on the verge of Christs' return, we should expect unnatural activity to take place. Although they cannot create or do miracles like God, Satan and his demons are evil deceptive geniuses, with technologies way beyond our knowledge.

robb,
I see the things in the news that cause you to speculate on the lie. I also have an opinion of what the lie will be. Since the curse begins after the rapture, I believe the devil will say there was an alien abduction. When Jesus comes to the atmosphere of the earth(1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) and he now shines as the sun in it's strength(Revelation 1:16), the world will see a bright light in the sky when the Christians are gone and their clothing, eye glasses false teeth ect... lay in a pile.

rodd · Apr 28, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
robb,
I see the things in the news that cause you to speculate on the lie. I also have an opinion of what the lie will be. Since the curse begins after the rapture, I believe the devil will say there was an alien abduction. When Jesus comes to the atmosphere of the earth(1 Thessalonians 4:13-17) and he now shines as the sun in it's strength(Revelation 1:16), the world will see a bright light in the sky when the Christians are gone and their clothing, eye glasses false teeth ect... lay in a pile.

Generally we see so much mind conditioning toward the scenario we're talking about, cloning and genetic modification of everything are all over the news media, and Hollywood.
Then there's the myriad of Alien/Superhero type movies and Alien invasion movies that are churned out for public consumption,.....is this mind conditioning so they end up believing a lie that they were created by alien beings and not God?......I think so!
I think the two will be merged, the idea of genetic modification by of Neandathol man to modern man by advanced aliens, this was the ancient occult religion concept of Sumar or Mestapotamia,......really the worship of the fallen angels/demons.
All the pagan religions are just a re shuffled variety of the original, the worship of the sky Gods.

'It's quite possible', because the evidence seems to be leading down that track, and it's this generation that's been so heavily indoctrinated.
These certainly are things that make me speculate, because you can tick it off with the word of God,...........I understand my speculation isn't
fool prove,....but you can join the dots!
Something like this has to happen because scripture says it will, a grand deception if you like!

Eric E Stahl · Apr 28, 2013

rodd said:
Generally we see so much mind conditioning toward the scenario we're talking about, cloning and genetic modification of everything are all over the news media, and Hollywood.
Then there's the myriad of Alien/Superhero type movies and Alien invasion movies that are churned out for public consumption,.....is this mind conditioning so they end up believing a lie that they were created by alien beings and not God?......I think so!
I think the two will be merged, the idea of genetic modification by of Neandathol man to modern man by advanced aliens, this was the ancient occult religion concept of Sumar or Mestapotamia,......really the worship of the fallen angels/demons.
All the pagan religions are just a re shuffled variety of the original, the worship of the sky Gods.

'It's quite possible', because the evidence seems to be leading down that track, and it's this generation that's been so heavily indoctrinated.
These certainly are things that make me speculate, because you can tick it off with the word of God,...........I understand my speculation isn't
fool prove,....but you can join the dots!
Something like this has to happen because scripture says it will, a grand deception if you like!

I wrote a book on the last days prophecy. I think it would be interesting to you. You can read it for free on Amazon. It is called "America's Last Warning"

DutchChristian · Apr 28, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
I just understand it.

The appearing of Jesus or the gathering and the day of the Lord or the day of Christ are two different events.

Dear sir,

No, and you do not understand it!

Take Heed! As It is at the same EVENT at the last trumpet.

1 Corinthians 15:
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The Truth is:

Know that there is only one rapture (resurrection of the dead and after those who are alive at that time) and it is immediately after the dead (those who are asleep) rise first at the second coming of Christ which is AFTER the tribulation.

1 Thessalonians 4:
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

We need to endure until the end!

if you teach contrary you need to repent immediately lest you find yourself blind and later to be fighting against The Way, The Truth and The LIFE: The Lord Jesus Christ The WORD of GOD!

i have warned you, first get your understanding right and then you can teach i pray that you will not be stiffnecked and not resist the Truth!

Now in The Name of The Lord Jesus Christ i now hereby call your attention to this following Scripture:

James 3:
1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.

in your hands is great responsibility because if you teach openly contrary to The Word of GOD and i know you do, by your false teachings many could be confused and go astray

i am calling you to repent this day of teaching falsely! you are leading people in error

STOP IT!
@Eric E Stahl TAKE HEED to the above

DutchChristian · Apr 28, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
I believe the following;

The Five Phases of the First Resurrection

(2) The Holy Spirit and the church age saints are caught up to heaven before the antichrist Is given power in the Christian nations. 2Thessalonians 2:3-12 KJV,

Dear sir,

you believe in a lie!

A LIE!!!!!!!!

there is not going to be the rapture of the saints before the antichrist is given power!

you need to stop teaching in error! i hold you this day personally accountable in Jesus Name for the teaching and spreading of error.

James 3:1!

Here is a part from The Word of GOD The Holy Bible Telling you The Truth:

2 Thessalonians 2:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (AS IF THAT the day of Christ is at hand)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (that day shall NOT COME)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (that is the antichrist in his "power")

And so you MUST STOP teaching contrary to the Word of God and repent!

Lest ye regret!

This is serious!

Repent ye!

(it is one thing to believe a false thing and to keep it to yourself, but it is something else to teach that false belief as if it were the Truth on here publically!)

God Bless you,
maybe a bit rude coming off of a brother: dutch
Please forgive me

@all members at TJ
If i myself DutchChristian teach contrary to The Word of GOD: the righteous may reprove me the way wherewith i have reproved others and be firm about it. As i surely know not everything i am just nothing and want to really know if i am ever teaching in error and or working against The WORD i would never ever want to find myself to be blind to this and want to know ASAP please dear brethren please be firm with me if i go against The LORD His Word please!!!

Psalm 141:
5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

Proverbs 27:
5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Reproof me if i do wrong as it is a good thing!

Hallelujah!

DutchChristian · Apr 28, 2013

The rapture is after the tribulation and after the false prophet has arrived and will not happen until the LAST TRUMP which is at the end.

2 Thessalonians 2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

Mark 13:
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

Matthew 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

(emphasis mine)

You see The Word says it.

We need not to listen to all those doomsday predictors prognosticators, date setters and such BUT let our focus RATHER be on our Lord JESUS CHRIST The Word of God!

Let us be firm in the WORD and not follow after vain things that do not help us nor edify us in any way!

Eric E Stahl · Apr 28, 2013

DutchChristian said:
Dear sir,

you believe in a lie!

A LIE!!!!!!!!

there is not going to be the rapture of the saints before the antichrist is given power!

you need to stop teaching in error! i hold you this day personally accountable in Jesus Name for the teaching and spreading of error.

James 3:1!

Here is a part from The Word of GOD The Holy Bible Telling you The Truth:

2 Thessalonians 2:
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. (AS IF THAT the day of Christ is at hand)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (that day shall NOT COME)
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. (that is the antichrist in his "power")

And so you MUST STOP teaching contrary to the Word of God and repent!

Lest ye regret!

This is serious!

Repent ye!

(it is one thing to believe a false thing and to keep it to yourself, but it is something else to teach that false belief as if it were the Truth on here publically!)

God Bless you,
maybe a bit rude coming off of a brother: dutch
Please forgive me

@all members at TJ
If i myself DutchChristian teach contrary to The Word of GOD: the righteous may reprove me the way wherewith i have reproved others and be firm about it. As i surely know not everything i am just nothing and want to really know if i am ever teaching in error and or working against The WORD i would never ever want to find myself to be blind to this and want to know ASAP please dear brethren please be firm with me if i go against The LORD His Word please!!!

Psalm 141:
5 Let the righteous smite me; it shall be a kindness: and let him reprove me; it shall be an excellent oil, which shall not break my head: for yet my prayer also shall be in their calamities.

Proverbs 27:
5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.
6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Reproof me if i do wrong as it is a good thing!

Hallelujah!

rodd · Apr 28, 2013

Eric,

You gotta let go of this misuse of the term "Comforter", in the case of this Thessalonian verse, it's the Holy Spirit "Restrainer", "the comforter" is the indwelling gift of Gods' Spirit inside Gods' people.... but in this context, it's revealing His effect on the world as we know... To Restrain Evil!
If you think things are bad now, how bad could it really be????

It's not correct exegesis to supplement "Comforter" for "he" in this context, it is "Restrainer", which accords with the topic matter.

But anyway have a good day brother, and you to DutchChristian.

DHC · Apr 28, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
He who letteth is an individual. God will judge men after he who letteth is removed.

It is the Holy Spirit in the church that restrains evil.

Hello again Eric.

I do not wish to discourage you Eric, discussing eschatology can
be very interesting at times. Some folk even become christians as
a result of an interest in end time information. Keep up the good
work Eric!

Of the various eschatology viewpoints, pretribulation would be
the most frail from the stand point of the scripture. That is why
I need you to consider some of the problems that are inherent
in the pretribulation position.

One such problem involves the idea that the restrainer is the Holy
Spirit within the church. Not that this idea on the surface is wholly
wrong. Where the real problem is evident, is the idea that the church
is raptured before the antichrist, or man of lawlessness is allowed to
manifest himself. Thus, the 'restrainer',i.e., the Holy Spirit is removed
first, allowing evil to manifest itself fully in the antichrist.

This is simply incorrect and I will demonstrate why this is so.

1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming
and even now is already in the world.

The spirit of the antichrist was already in the world during the time
of the apostles. The spirit of the man of lawlessness was already active
in the very presence of the early church. The church itself represented
no restraint whatsoever to this evil spirit.

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming,
even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

Many antichrists had already arrived, once again the church was no hinderance
to the presence and activity of the antichrists.

Now for the most telling scripture, that reveals that the church is no barrier at
all to the antichrists. And more importantly is that the antichrists were in fact
from the church itself.

1 John 2
19 They (ac's) went out from us, but they (ac's) were not of us; for if they (ac's) had been of us,
they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Finally Eric, the final antichrist sits on the very throne of God on earth.
In the very temple of God himself, within the church of God. This would
not be possible if the church had already been raptured.

2 Thessalonians 2
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object
of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming
himself to be God.

To foster the idea that the presence of the church hinders the AC is
contrary to what the scripture actually states.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 29, 2013

DHC said:
Hello again Eric.

I do not wish to discourage you Eric, discussing eschatology can
be very interesting at times. Some folk even become christians as
a result of an interest in end time information. Keep up the good
work Eric!

Of the various eschatology viewpoints, pretribulation would be
the most frail from the stand point of the scripture. That is why
I need you to consider some of the problems that are inherent
in the pretribulation position.

One such problem involves the idea that the restrainer is the Holy
Spirit within the church. Not that this idea on the surface is wholly
wrong. Where the real problem is evident, is the idea that the church
is raptured before the antichrist, or man of lawlessness is allowed to
manifest himself. Thus, the 'restrainer',i.e., the Holy Spirit is removed
first, allowing evil to manifest itself fully in the antichrist.

This is simply incorrect and I will demonstrate why this is so.

1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.
This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming
and even now is already in the world.

The spirit of the antichrist was already in the world during the time
of the apostles. The spirit of the man of lawlessness was already active
in the very presence of the early church. The church itself represented
no restraint whatsoever to this evil spirit.

1 John 2:18
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming,
even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour.

Many antichrists had already arrived, once again the church was no hinderance
to the presence and activity of the antichrists.

Now for the most telling scripture, that reveals that the church is no barrier at
all to the antichrists. And more importantly is that the antichrists were in fact
from the church itself.

1 John 2
19 They (ac's) went out from us, but they (ac's) were not of us; for if they (ac's) had been of us,
they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

Finally Eric, the final antichrist sits on the very throne of God on earth.
In the very temple of God himself, within the church of God. This would
not be possible if the church had already been raptured.

2 Thessalonians 2
4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object
of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming
himself to be God.

To foster the idea that the presence of the church hinders the AC is
contrary to what the scripture actually states.

urple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} p {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Times; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Times; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.Heading2Char {mso-style-name:"Heading 2 Char"; mso-style-locked:yes; mso-style-link:"Heading 2"; mso-ansi-font-size:18.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Times; mso-ascii-font-family:Times; mso-hansi-font-family:Times; font-weight:bold; mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;} span.verse {mso-style-name:verse;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> DHC,

The 7 year covenant, which the antichrist will confirm, will give Israel half the Temple Mount to rebuild the temple and all of Jerusalem. It is that temple that the antichrist will enter and that is where the throne is that he will sit on. The true church will be removed from the earth because we are not appointed to the wrath of the tribulation.

<style> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Times; panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} @font-face {font-family:Cambria; panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4; mso-font-charset:0; mso-generic-font-family:auto; mso-font-pitch:variable; mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {mso-style-parent:""; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;} h2 {mso-style-link:"Heading 2 Char"; margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; mso-outline-level:2; font-size:18.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Times; mso-hansi-font-family:Times; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; font-weight:bold; mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {mso-style-noshow:yes; color

urple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} p {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-ascii-font-family:Times; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Times; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";} span.Heading2Char {mso-style-name:"Heading 2 Char"; mso-style-locked:yes; mso-style-link:"Heading 2"; mso-ansi-font-size:18.0pt; mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt; font-family:Times; mso-ascii-font-family:Times; mso-hansi-font-family:Times; font-weight:bold; mso-bidi-font-weight:normal;} span.verse {mso-style-name:verse;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> [h=2]Revelation 11[/h] 1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

1 Thessalonians 5

1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do.

We will be saved from the judgment by fire in the tribulation as Noah and his family where saved from the flood.

rodd · Apr 29, 2013

1 Thess 5:9>>> The reason we do not endure the final 3.5yrs of Gods wrath on Mankind is precisely wrapped up in this verse.
That's why I know the Rapture will come at the midpoint of the 7yr Tribulation.
The snatching away and meeting the Lord in the air will occur at that 3.5 year point in time after the 42mths of Antichrists persecution of the Saints,
who are the Christian Church.
At that point in time all Born Again people will vanish from the earth.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 29, 2013

rodd said:
1 Thess 5:9>>> The reason we do not endure the final 3.5yrs of Gods wrath on Mankind is precisely wrapped up in this verse.
That's why I know the Rapture will come at the midpoint of the 7yr Tribulation.
The snatching away and meeting the Lord in the air will occur at that 3.5 year point in time after the 42mths of Antichrists persecution of the Saints,
who are the Christian Church.
At that point in time all Born Again people will vanish from the earth.

Rodd,

It was Mystery Babylon the harlot church that killed the saints in the first half of the tribulation.
<style>  </style>
Revelation 17:15-18

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the ***** sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the *****, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

Revelation 18:20-24
20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.
21 And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers, and musicians, and of pipers, and trumpeters, shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft he be, shall be found any more in thee; and the sound of a millstone shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

rodd · Apr 30, 2013

Eric, read Revelation chpt 13:5-10, the antichrist is a politician he is a political ruler who heads up all the political leaderships in the world.....
They take orders from him,

Also read Rev 17:2, the world is also governed from Rome but there will be a falling out between the religious and the secular beats that rule, resulting in the destruction of the religious beasts seat of power.

Rev
Rev 13:14 Is about John Paul2, also called a beast, I believe the statue or image will be of John Paul 2, as he was shot and not expected to live, and since the reformation of the Vatican in 1927, under the Lateran Treaty, making him the fifth king Pope or ruler of the Sovereign State of the Vatican.
[Look up Lateran treaty on Wickipedia, or just google of evidence.]
By the sound of it he's also going to make a personal appearance Rev 17:8, but verse they allude to the idea that the 5th king is also the eighth, and we have the eighth in the new Pope Francis. Whether this just means that they're both demons in disguise and they're the same due to that, or that the 5th which is JP2 re-emerges, I'm not sure.
Does JP2 arise from the bottomless pit as scripture speaks about, he certainly was wounded at almost dead, and the world followed him, that's true, and he also is the 5th from the 1927 Lateran Accord which literally made Pope Pius 1X the first King Pope.
What I do know is that this new Pope Francis is the eighth in the line of Sovereign Popes from 1927 after the Nationhood of the Vatican was initiated, this qualifies him also a King, and he is the eighth of the book of Revelation...Rev 17:9-11.
Rev 13:11-15, Seems to give support that this image being JP2 and Francis the eighth forcing the people of the earth to worship this image, this will be the time of Antichrists persecution of the saints, scripture warns us that this will happen, Rev 13:7-10.

This I believe will occur over the first 42mths of the tribulation which to my understanding is almost imminent. Peace treaty 2013 I do believe.

It will be our political leaders that do his dirty work of oppression because it says they are drunk( out of control like a drunk) with deceit of this evil
institution, they are drunk also with the power they see for themselves over the masses. Rev 17:2

There's a few verses but they're all either chpt 13 or 17, so shouldn't take you to long to see how I've interpreted the way I have.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 30, 2013

rodd said:
Eric, read Revelation chpt 13:5-10, the antichrist is a politician he is a political ruler who heads up all the political leaderships in the world.....
They take orders from him,

Also read Rev 17:2, the world is also governed from Rome but there will be a falling out between the religious and the secular beats that rule, resulting in the destruction of the religious beasts seat of power.

Rev
Rev 13:14 Is about John Paul2, also called a beast, I believe the statue or image will be of John Paul 2, as he was shot and not expected to live, and since the reformation of the Vatican in 1927, under the Lateran Treaty, making him the fifth king Pope or ruler of the Sovereign State of the Vatican.
[Look up Lateran treaty on Wickipedia, or just google of evidence.]
By the sound of it he's also going to make a personal appearance Rev 17:8, but verse they allude to the idea that the 5th king is also the eighth, and we have the eighth in the new Pope Francis. Whether this just means that they're both demons in disguise and they're the same due to that, or that the 5th which is JP2 re-emerges, I'm not sure.
Does JP2 arise from the bottomless pit as scripture speaks about, he certainly was wounded at almost dead, and the world followed him, that's true, and he also is the 5th from the 1927 Lateran Accord which literally made Pope Pius 1X the first King Pope.
What I do know is that this new Pope Francis is the eighth in the line of Sovereign Popes from 1927 after the Nationhood of the Vatican was initiated, this qualifies him also a King, and he is the eighth of the book of Revelation...Rev 17:9-11.
Rev 13:11-15, Seems to give support that this image being JP2 and Francis the eighth forcing the people of the earth to worship this image, this will be the time of Antichrists persecution of the saints, scripture warns us that this will happen, Rev 13:7-10.

This I believe will occur over the first 42mths of the tribulation which to my understanding is almost imminent. Peace treaty 2013 I do believe.

It will be our political leaders that do his dirty work of oppression because it says they are drunk( out of control like a drunk) with deceit of this evil
institution, they are drunk also with the power they see for themselves over the masses. Rev 17:2

There's a few verses but they're all either chpt 13 or 17, so shouldn't take you to long to see how I've interpreted the way I have.

urple; text-decoration:underline; text-underline:single;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> Eric, read Revelation chpt 13:5-10, the antichrist is a politician he is a political ruler who heads up all the political leaderships in the world.....
They take orders from him, (((I agree)))

Also read Rev 17:2, the world is also governed from Rome but there will be a falling out between the religious and the secular beats that rule, resulting in the destruction of the religious beasts seat of power. (((I agree)))

The religious leaders are destroyed at the middle of the tribulation and the antichrist will rule for the last 42 months of the tribulation. All the wars are done by Revelation 11:14 when the two witnesses are killed and called up to heaven after witnessing for 1260 days.

Rodd,
We can't know who the antichrist is because God will choose him after the rapture of the church 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12.

rodd · Apr 30, 2013

I've just given you reasonable recent historic evidence and also aligned it with prophetic scripture unlike the many who just make bold assertions for prophetic word they would have you believe, or if they lace it with this and that has to do with America,they know they'll attract interest and believe ability, these are false prophets.

As for yours assumption.."you can't know"
If you "dig in" over the meaning of the word "HE" in 2Thess, and insist it must be understood as " He the Comforter" rather than "He the Restrainer" and take the next jump to conclude this must mean Christians will not see the Antichrist, then you have taken the meaning of the word "HE" as it applies in this context out of the context. To do so in effect warps and confuses the rest of the literal prophetic word informing us of what we must expect to face in those years.
It also creates a redundancy of a sizable portion of the prophetic word,...you could be in breach of taking away from scripture by doing this, albeit unintentionally I believe.

Your whole understanding of the chronology of the 7 yrs of tribulation is compromised because of this error, that's why contradictions arise when trying to try to marry verses that clearly explain the persecution of the Saints due to Antichrist ,if you take this position.. Rev 13:7-10.

Eric E Stahl · Apr 30, 2013

rodd said:
I've just given you reasonable recent historic evidence and also aligned it with prophetic scripture unlike the many who just make bold assertions for prophetic word they would have you believe, or if they lace it with this and that has to do with America,they know they'll attract interest and believe ability, these are false prophets.

As for yours assumption.."you can't know"
If you "dig in" over the meaning of the word "HE" in 2Thess, and insist it must be understood as " He the Comforter" rather than "He the Restrainer" and take the next jump to conclude this must mean Christians will not see the Antichrist, then you have taken the meaning of the word "HE" as it applies in this context out of the context. To do so in effect warps and confuses the rest of the literal prophetic word informing us of what we must expect to face in those years.
It also creates a redundancy of a sizable portion of the prophetic word,...you could be in breach of taking away from scripture by doing this, albeit unintentionally I believe.

Your whole understanding of the chronology of the 7 yrs of tribulation is compromised because of this error, that's why contradictions arise when trying to try to marry verses that clearly explain the persecution of the Saints due to Antichrist ,if you take this position.. Rev 13:7-10.

Antichrist will persecute the saints that become saints in the tribulation.

rodd · Apr 30, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
Antichrist will persecute the saints that become saints in the tribulation.

I would say if as scripture says, he will persecute the Saints when he comes to power that they would have to be there as it were!!!!
How could he persecute if the rapture's taken the church away?....see how untenable this thinking becomes!

I don't think if he's only got 3.5 years he'd be waiting for new saints to spring out of nowhere because there's no Christan Church to preach the gospel left.....
surely that's logical??

Eric E Stahl · May 2, 2013

rodd said:
I would say if as scripture says, he will persecute the Saints when he comes to power that they would have to be there as it were!!!!
How could he persecute if the rapture's taken the church away?....see how untenable this thinking becomes!

I don't think if he's only got 3.5 years he'd be waiting for new saints to spring out of nowhere because there's no Christan Church to preach the gospel left.....
surely that's logical??

In the middle of the tribulation the devil is defeated in war in heaven and cast to the earth where he will cause the antichrist and the armies of earth to persecute the woman Israel.
1/3 of the Jews will become Christians during the tribulation.

Revelation 12:13-14
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

rodd · May 2, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
In the middle of the tribulation the devil is defeated in war in heaven and cast to the earth where he will cause the antichrist and the armies of earth to persecute the woman Israel.
1/3 of the Jews will become Christians during the tribulation.

Revelation 12:13-14
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

The true Israel are Christians and only those that are the saved by the grace of Christs atonement, not the legalistic Christ rejecting Jew, please go to Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6-7,
Also in regard to the 144,000 jews that are saved in the time of the great tribulation and the fact that the Christians that have been raptured mid point of the tribulation are already in heaven, the angel asks the retorical question about these late arrivals, who and where did they come from? Rev 7:13.

Notice he's asking specifically about these late arrivals and the reason given was that this little band went through the great tribulation, the last 3.5yrs of wrath, therein lies the difference.
Read Chpt 7, 144,000 protected and saved, "but the multitudes are in heaven around the throne, marriage supper, etc", then in Rev 7:13-14 we have the later inclusion of the 144,000 who do go through the great tribulation of Gods wrath, the final times time and half a time.

The number of true Israelites is far less than you are led to believe, in fact this must be the 1/3 spoken of in the old testament, there is very suspicious historical evidence that lends support to this theory which is in actuality fact.
Not all Israel are Israel is a true scriptural statement, the question I'm positing is, apart from the spiritual is this also true for the Israel of the flesh?
This may sound murky and strange but it is true and throws a spanner into our accepted ideas of what reality is, it's a deep issue, maybe it's not advisable to go there!

Rod.

Welcome!

Signs before Jesus comes

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Members Online

Trending content

Newest members

Stay Connected