Signs before Jesus comes

Eric E Stahl · May 2, 2013

rodd said:
The true Israel are Christians and only those that are the saved by the grace of Christs atonement, not the legalistic Christ rejecting Jew, please go to Romans 2:28-29, Romans 9:6-7,
Also in regard to the 144,000 jews that are saved in the time of the great tribulation and the fact that the Christians that have been raptured mid point of the tribulation are already in heaven, the angel asks the retorical question about these late arrivals, who and where did they come from? Rev 7:13.

Notice he's asking specifically about these late arrivals and the reason given was that this little band went through the great tribulation, the last 3.5yrs of wrath, therein lies the difference.
Read Chpt 7, 144,000 protected and saved, "but the multitudes are in heaven around the throne, marriage supper, etc", then in Rev 7:13-14 we have the later inclusion of the 144,000 who do go through the great tribulation of Gods wrath, the final times time and half a time.

The number of true Israelites is far less than you are led to believe, in fact this must be the 1/3 spoken of in the old testament, there is very suspicious historical evidence that lends support to this theory which is in actuality fact.
Not all Israel are Israel is a true scriptural statement, the question I'm positing is, apart from the spiritual is this also true for the Israel of the flesh?
This may sound murky and strange but it is true and throws a spanner into our accepted ideas of what reality is, it's a deep issue, maybe it's not advisable to go there!

Rod.

Zechariah 13:7-9
Zechariah 13

7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.

<style>  </style> Isaiah 4
2 In that day shall the branch of the LORD be beautiful and glorious, and the fruit of the earth shall be excellent and comely for them that are escaped of Israel.
3 And it shall come to pass, that he that is left in Zion, and he that remaineth in Jerusalem, shall be called holy, even every one that is written among the living in Jerusalem:
4 When the Lord shall have washed away the filth of the daughters of Zion, and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.

rodd · May 2, 2013

Yes they will come out and be born of the spirit in the final yrs of tribulation but it will only be 144,000 as stipulated by scripture, you claim the number of professing Jews to be 15+million and 1/3 would be saved????
Go figure the numbers and re-read my post....something is wrong!

Eric E Stahl · May 2, 2013

rodd said:
Yes they will come out and be born of the spirit in the final yrs of tribulation but it will only be 144,000 as stipulated by scripture, you claim the number of professing Jews to be 15+million and 1/3 would be saved????
Go figure the numbers and re-read my post....something is wrong!

Revelation 14:
[h=2]Revelation 14[/h] 1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

The 144,000 where redeemed from the earth at the middle of the tribulation. They did not make it through the fire with the 5,000,000 Jewish Christians.

rodd · May 2, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
Revelation 14:
Revelation 14

1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.
2 And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps:
3 And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.
5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

The 144,000 where redeemed from the earth at the middle of the tribulation. They did not make it through the fire with the 5,000,000 Jewish Christians.

That's quite strange exegesis, if your assumption of 5 mill were true, how come scripture mentions the 144,000 and they rate a mention!....but your 5 million 1/3 don't even rate a listing, this proves your presupposed idea is totally incorrect and false.
If there were going to be 5 million Jews saved on top of the 144,000 logic would have it that 5 million would also be written in scripture or did the Holy Spirit have a lapse of foresight at that point.
The fact that it's not mentioned at all also would mean your adding to the word that which is not there...best not to do that bible says.
Read Revelation 7 and adjust your perceptions in view of the word of God, not what your world view only allows you to.
I believe you need to re consider your presupposition about the other 5million Jewish Christians cause they just aren't there.

Eric E Stahl · May 3, 2013

rodd said:
That's quite strange exegesis, if your assumption of 5 mill were true, how come scripture mentions the 144,000 and they rate a mention!....but your 5 million 1/3 don't even rate a listing, this proves your presupposed idea is totally incorrect and false.
If there were going to be 5 million Jews saved on top of the 144,000 logic would have it that 5 million would also be written in scripture or did the Holy Spirit have a lapse of foresight at that point.
The fact that it's not mentioned at all also would mean your adding to the word that which is not there...best not to do that bible says.
Read Revelation 7 and adjust your perceptions in view of the word of God, not what your world view only allows you to.
I believe you need to re consider your presupposition about the other 5million Jewish Christians cause they just aren't there.

rodd · May 3, 2013

The re built Israel you now see and believe to be the makings of the final work of the Lord in his formation of what will be the eternal Israel is a hoax or the early first establishment of the false Israel that is Satans work and development, the majority of Jews that you imagine to be genuine actual semites are not even of true Israelite linage these make up 90%+ of the supposed number of Jewish people.
No the real Jews are very small in number almost extinct and were destined to be, because of Gods wrath against them apart from the final saved remnant.
As scripture says the true Jew are those re-born with a new heart, they are circumcised of heart and not just merely in the flesh. The natural are not the Israel of God, their accuser will be Moses according to the Lord, yes they will soon get their temple of works worship, but that just stands symbolic of their rejection of Gods means of grace.
And as Christians their legalistic worship shouldn't bring us any great joy, it stands in opposition to the only way of salvation and the grace and sufferings of God himself.

Do I feel or think of myself as a Jew now, no I don't but scripture says in the new age of the Messiah's kingdom I will belong to him and his eternally blessed race which is this true blessed Israel we read about in future prophecy, not the national group under wrath right now. These are not true Israel, and you are being duped to believe they are, people turn a blind eye to them because they advantage themselves as Gods chosen, but they're not.

Eric E Stahl · May 3, 2013

rodd said:
The re built Israel you now see and believe to be the makings of the final work of the Lord in his formation of what will be the eternal Israel is a hoax or the early first establishment of the false Israel that is Satans work and development, the majority of Jews that you imagine to be genuine actual semites are not even of true Israelite linage these make up 90%+ of the supposed number of Jewish people.
No the real Jews are very small in number almost extinct and were destined to be, because of Gods wrath against them apart from the final saved remnant.
As scripture says the true Jew are those re-born with a new heart, they are circumcised of heart and not just merely in the flesh. The natural are not the Israel of God, their accuser will be Moses according to the Lord, yes they will soon get their temple of works worship, but that just stands symbolic of their rejection of Gods means of grace.
And as Christians their legalistic worship shouldn't bring us any great joy, it stands in opposition to the only way of salvation and the grace and sufferings of God himself.

Do I feel or think of myself as a Jew now, no I don't but scripture says in the new age of the Messiah's kingdom I will belong to him and his eternally blessed race which is this true blessed Israel we read about in future prophecy, not the national group under wrath right now. These are not true Israel, and you are being duped to believe they are, people turn a blind eye to them because they advantage themselves as Gods chosen, but they're not.

rodd,

God believes the people in Israel are his Jews since he has fulfilled this prophecy.

Isaiah 30:18-26
18 And therefore will the LORD wait, that he may be gracious unto you, and therefore will he be exalted, that he may have mercy upon you: for the LORD is a God of judgment: blessed are all they that wait for him.
(((1967)))

19 For the people shall dwell in Zion at Jerusalem: thou shalt weep no more: he will be very gracious unto thee at the voice of thy cry; when he shall hear it, he will answer thee.
20 And though the Lord give you the bread of adversity, and the water of affliction, yet shall not thy teachers be removed into a corner any more, but thine eyes shall see thy teachers: 21 And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.
22 Ye shall defile also the covering of thy graven images of silver, and the ornament of thy molten images of gold: thou shalt cast them away as a menstruous cloth; thou shalt say unto it, Get thee hence.

23 Then shall he give the rain of thy seed, that thou shalt sow the ground withal; and bread of the increase of the earth, and it shall be fat and plenteous: in that day shall thy cattle feed in large pastures.
24 The oxen likewise and the young asses that ear the ground shall eat clean provender, which hath been winnowed with the shovel and with the fan.

(((the tribulation )))

25 And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall.
26 Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound.

rodd · May 9, 2013

The Israel you see now today is not the in gathering of the Lord, they are there to make a covenant pact with Antichrist, many of these people are not the true Israel but the true remnant will return repentant, in faith and redeemed, this is not the regathering of the Lord!!!

Can you have a regathering before faith and redemption, what we have today is the opposite, it is against the law to openly preach Christ in Israel at this time, what we have today is a contradiction!
No, those that occupy the land at this minute are there to fore-fill a covenant with the man of sin.

Eric E Stahl · May 9, 2013

rodd said:
The Israel you see now today is not the in gathering of the Lord, they are there to make a covenant pact with Antichrist, many of these people are not the true Israel but the true remnant will return repentant, in faith and redeemed, this is not the regathering of the Lord!!!

Can you have a regathering before faith and redemption, what we have today is the opposite, it is against the law to openly preach Christ in Israel at this time, what we have today is a contradiction!
No, those that occupy the land at this minute are there to fore-fill a covenant with the man of sin.

I agree this is not the final gathering of Israel. I believe God is giving this generation a chance to get right. Most will die by Gods judgment spoken of in Isaiah 4:2-4.
Israel will be returned after the tribulation see Isaiah 60:3-22

rodd · May 9, 2013

This is that generation that will acclaim the one who comes in his own name, the Antichrist. The most of the Jews aren't of Israel they're counterfeit,... decedents of Japheth, and his sons Magog, Tubal and Gomer, the true Israelites are few in number and they are the future redeemed ones, not all the butchers we think are now!

Eric E Stahl · May 10, 2013

rodd said:
This is that generation that will acclaim the one who comes in his own name, the Antichrist. The most of the Jews aren't of Israel they're counterfeit,... decedents of Japheth, and his sons Magog, Tubal and Gomer, the true Israelites are few in number and they are the future redeemed ones, not all the butchers we think are now!

rodd,

God thinks the people in Israel are the true Jews returned, since he has fulfilled Isaiah 30:18-24. God will not always strive with a non repenting Israel. Isaiah 30:25-32 exliains their judgment by fire which is coming soon.

rodd · May 11, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
rodd,

God thinks the people in Israel are the true Jews returned, since he has fulfilled Isaiah 30:18-24. God will not always strive with a non repenting Israel. Isaiah 30:25-32 exliains their judgment by fire which is coming soon.

Your perceived reality and what actually is true are poles apart. That's why you have no understanding of what I'm talking about!

DHC · May 12, 2013

Eric E Stahl said:
In the middle of the tribulation the devil is defeated in war in heaven and cast to the earth where he will cause the antichrist and the armies of earth to persecute the woman Israel.
1/3 of the Jews will become Christians during the tribulation.

Revelation 12:13-14
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Hello Eric.

Your eschatology seems to have become swiss cheese.

Satan has been on this planet for a very long time.

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Job 1:7
The Lord said to Satan, From where do you come? Then Satan answered the Lord
and said, From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.

So we know that satan was already walking on earth, way before the book
of revelations was written.

In fact Eric, after satan is cast to earth, he persecutes the woman who brought
forth the Christ. The woman cannot be Israel, as Israel did not exist for 2000 years after
the Christ. Have another look at the woman, Eric.

Eric E Stahl · May 12, 2013

DHC said:
Hello Eric.

Your eschatology seems to have become swiss cheese.

Satan has been on this planet for a very long time.

Luke 10:18
And He said to them, I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning.

Job 1:7
The Lord said to Satan, From where do you come? Then Satan answered the Lord
and said, From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.

So we know that satan was already walking on earth, way before the book
of revelations was written.

In fact Eric, after satan is cast to earth, he persecutes the woman who brought
forth the Christ. The woman cannot be Israel, as Israel did not exist for 2000 years after
the Christ. Have another look at the woman, Eric.

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