Sinless Perfection And The Truth That Sets You Free

[Curtis]

Act 8:5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

The Samaritan people heard the Word of God, believed, and then were baptized. These were new believers.

Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

The apostles sent Peter, and John back to Samaria not the proclaim the gospel, but so that the Sarmatians would receive the Holy Spirit.

Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Another example of being filled with the Holy Spirit as being a separate experience is found here..

Act 19:1 And it happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the inland country and came to Ephesus. There he found some disciples.
Act 19:2 And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”
Act 19:3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John's baptism.”
Act 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”
Act 19:5 On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying.

 

[Hadsa]

Prepare the Way for the LORD Isaiah 40:2-4
…2“Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her forced labor has been completed, her iniquity has been pardoned; for she has received from the hand of the LORD double for all her sins.” 3A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert. 4Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground will become smooth, and the rugged land a plain.…
Mark 1:3
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for Him.’”
John 3:28
You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ, but am sent ahead of Him.’
Luke 3:3
3He went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins
A BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

John instituted this water baptism if you do not have this you can have the fire baptism. Water makes way for the fire therefore is necessary for salvation.

Water baptism is of the Holy Spirit too, it is the application of cleansing of original sin, refinement by fire can then follow. That is why when Christ arose up from the water the Holy Spirit descended as a dove.
This is to confirm that baptism by water is instituted by God the Father and not man. A man anointed by the Holy Spirit like John gives this application by the Holy Spirit. It is therefore the Holy Spirit which cleanses through water 'Original sin'.

Overcoming the World 1John 5:7-9
…7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit, the water, and the blood — and these three are in agreement. 9Even if we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son.…

Did Christ need to be baptized by a man, no. That is why John the Baptist said this:

The Baptism of Jesus Matthew 3:13-15
13At that time Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. 14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, “I need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?” 15“Let it be so now,” Jesus replied. “It is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness in this way.” Then John permitted Him.…
this proves Christ expects this of all who follow Him. This must be taught as necessary, especially if our Glorious Lord humbled Himself to demand all flesh receive this baptism.

Jesus Like His Brothers Hebrews 2:16-18
…16For surely it is not the angels He helps, but the descendants of Abraham. 17So He had to be made like His brothers in every way, that He might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people. 18Because He Himself suffered when He was tempted, He is able to help those who are being tempted.…

Humbled Himself but He is the Only one sinless:
Ambassadors for Christ 2 Corinthians 5:20-21
…20Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ: Be reconciled to God. 21God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God.
Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

The Attitude of Christ Philippians 2;6-8
…6Who, existing in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to cling to, 7but emptied Himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in human likeness. 8And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to death—even death on a cross.…

Water baptism is essential to salvation you can not receive Christ without it. What the master does goes double for us. God Bless!

 

[Curtis]

If water baptism was a requirement for salvation then the Word of God would have said, "we are saved by grave, through faith, and water baptism, not of works lest any man should boast"
In the gospel of Mark Jesus said.....

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

"....but whoever does not believe will be condemned. " Jesus did NOT say, "but whoever does believe, and is not baptized shall be condemned"

Water baptism should be done by all born again believers, but it is not an absolute must for salvation!

 

[Hadsa]

1 John5:7-9…7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit, the water, and the blood — and these three are in agreement. 9Even if we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son.…

The Word does state that it is a requirement:Luke 3:3
3He went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins
A BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.
You are saying it is not a requirement, not the Word. If one is saved by the blood of the lamb then he has too the Spirit and water:Overcoming the World 1John 5:7-9
…7For there are three that testify: 8the Spirit, the water, and the blood — and these three are in agreement. 9Even if we accept human testimony, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony that God has given about His Son.…
you can not be saved by the blood if you reject both Spirit and water. ALL THREE are in agreement. The Testimony OF GOD IS GREATER than man's. I do not, for the sake of a denominational consensus teach or practice a false doctrine. The three testify to the salvation of man. One or the other is true not both of you. You can not be correct and the Word be correct either you are wrong or the Word is, we know therefore the Word is correct!

 

[Curtis]

There are many places in scripture that mentions "baptism", and in most of those scriptures they do not say "water baptism". Every single born again Christian is "baptized" automatically when confessing Jesus Christ to be their savior.
This is done by the Holy Spirit, who just so happens to be likened unto water!

1Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

No physical water is used when a person is "baptized" into the body of Christ!

Water baptism is only a outward action (confession) showing what has already happened on the inside of a believer.

 

[Curtis]

You are saying it is not a requirement, not the Word. If one is saved by the blood of the lamb then he has too the Spirit and water:

In salvation water is used to represent the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit not physical water.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Hadsa]

If water baptism was a requirement for salvation then the Word of God would have said, "we are saved by grave, through faith, and water baptism, not of works lest any man should boast"
In the gospel of Mark Jesus said.....

Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

"....but whoever does not believe will be condemned. " Jesus did NOT say, "but whoever does believe, and is not baptized shall be condemned"

Water baptism should be done by all born again believers, but it is not an absolute must for salvation!

How can you receive the Lord if you make not clear or straight the way for Him? How can the valleys be lifted high ? The bumpy valleys must be made smooth, this is what John the Baptist was purposed to do, no? He himself says he must go BEFORE the Lord to do this, no? Does this not mean before we receive the fire baptism we MUST receive water baptism? To say not necessary for salvation, my question is then- how do you receive salvation without it, and what then was John's purpose in baptizing and what is the making straight and clearing the way FOR THE LORD?

 

[Curtis]

How can you receive the Lord if you make not clear or straight the way for Him? How can the valleys be lifted high ? The bumpy valleys must be made smooth, this is what John the Baptist was purposed to do, no? He himself says he must go BEFORE the Lord to do this, no? Does this not mean before we receive the fire baptism we MUST receive water baptism? To say not necessary for salvation, my question is then- how do you receive salvation without it, and what then was John's purpose in baptizing and what is the making straight and clearing the way FOR THE LORD?

what did John say?

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire has nothing to do with physical water.

 

[Hadsa]

In salvation water is used to represent the Word of God, and the Holy Spirit not physical water.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Eph 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or

Tit 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Is it not the Word who said make clear the way of the Lord? Is it not the Word that instituted baptism by water. Is not water baptism too of the Holy Spirit? I am not questioning the verses you post only your understanding of them. They do not contradict what I say or what I posted before. Actually they prove my point not yours. The Word commanded all- including baptism by water for the forgiveness of sins.As for works- it is by the application of faith in works that ones faith is seen. To not do this work is to not have faith in what the Word says.
Faith and Works James 2:17-19
…17So too, faith by itself, if it is not complemented by action, is dead. 18But someone will say, “You have faith and I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19You believe that God is one. Good for you! Even the demons believe that, and shudder!…

You must still be equating John the Baptist's anointing with a work only done by man. In whose name did John the Baptist come in? By whom is He anointed to give a baptism for repentance?

 

[Curtis]

How can you receive the Lord if you make not clear or straight the way for Him? How can the valleys be lifted high ? The bumpy valleys must be made smooth, this is what John the Baptist was purposed to do, no?

Every where John the baptist went his message was always the same. He preached "repentance". This is exactly the same message Jesus preached every where he went!

Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

This is exactly how John the baptist "prepared" the "highway" for the coming of the Lord! This is how John made strait his paths, and how every valley was raised up.
The word, "repent" does not mean to feel sorry for your sins, it means, "to change your mind" The Lord Jesus will have no affect an anyone whose mind is not set upon him.

 

[Hadsa]

what did John say?

Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit and with fire has nothing to do with physical water.

That is right and I said that, you misunderstand that. He indeed baptized with water and Christ who is mightier than John baptizes with Fire but you can not receive that baptism without the water first. This goes before and MAKES STRAIGHT AND CLEAR the way for the fire baptism. The verse you quote does not make null and void what John was purposed to do. Through Election those predestined to carry on the heritage of our salvation must continue to put this into practice. This is preparation for fire refinement. It does not in any way imply that John's works are mightier than Christ's but does in fact mean water baptism is needed before the MIGHTIER work takes place. In Christ comes the Spiritual gifts, not John or water baptism. This is only preparation for that which is greater.

 

[Hadsa]

Every where John the baptist went his message was always the same. He preached "repentance". This is exactly the same message Jesus preached every where he went!

Mat 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
Mat 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Mar 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,
Mar 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

This is exactly how John the baptist "prepared" the "highway" for the coming of the Lord! This is how John made strait his paths, and how every valley was raised up.
The word, "repent" does not mean to feel sorry for your sins, it means, "to change your mind" The Lord Jesus will have no affect an anyone whose mind is not set upon him.

Prepare the Way for the LORD Isaiah 40:2-4
…2“Speak tenderly to Jerusalem, and proclaim to her that her forced labor has been completed, her iniquity has been pardoned; for she has received from the hand of the LORD double for all her sins.” 3A voice of one calling: “Prepare the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make a straight highway for our God in the desert. 4Every valley shall be lifted up, and every mountain and hill made low; the uneven ground will become smooth, and the rugged land a plain.…
Mark 1:3
“A voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for Him.’”
John 3:28
You yourselves can testify that I said, ‘I am not the Christ BUT AM SENT AHEAD OF HIM.’
Luke 3:3
3He went into all the region around the Jordan, proclaiming a BAPTISM of repentance for the forgiveness of sins
A BAPTISM OF REPENTANCE FOR THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS.

John instituted this water baptism if you do not have this you can have the fire baptism. Water makes way for the fire therefore is necessary for salvation.

Water baptism is of the Holy Spirit too, it is the application of cleansing of original sin, refinement by fire can then follow. That is why when Christ arose up from the water the Holy Spirit descended as a dove.
This is to confirm that baptism by water is instituted by God the Father and not man. A man anointed by the Holy Spirit like John gives this application by the Holy Spirit. It is therefore the Holy Spirit which cleanses through water 'Original sin'.

That is it a baptism of repentance. he BAPTIZED WITH WATER, you repented and were baptized= preparation. He did not say repent and then not cleanse you with water.

The Mission of John the Baptist Matthew 3:10-12
…10The ax lies ready at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 11I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12His winnowing fork is in His hand to clear His threshing floor and to gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.”…

You will not convince me otherwise for the Word is clear and truly supports what I say. Baptism is necessary and the Spirit, water and blood are all in agreement, THIS IS THE WORD OF THE LORD and my spirit agrees.

 

[Dave M]

John instituted this water baptism if you do not have this you can have the fire baptism. Water makes way for the fire therefore is necessary for salvation.

Water baptism is of the Holy Spirit too, it is the application of cleansing of original sin, refinement by fire can then follow. That is why when Christ arose up from the water the Holy Spirit descended as a dove.
This is to confirm that baptism by water is instituted by God the Father and not man. A man anointed by the Holy Spirit like John gives this application by the Holy Spirit. It is therefore the Holy Spirit which cleanses through water 'Original sin'.

water baptism is not necessary my freind, simply look to the thief on the cross yes it should be done when possible but not necessary.
welcome to JT

 

[Curtis]

32 scriptures that speak of salvation, without being water baptized.

1. (John 1:12)
2. (John 3:14-18) (whoever)
3. (John 5:24)
4. (John 6:29-40) (whoever, everyone)
5. (John 11:25-26)(whoever)
6. (John 12:46-50)(whoever)
7. (John 16:7-9) (not believe)
8. (John 17:20-22)
9. (John 20:31)
10.(Acts 2:21,33) (everyone)
11.(Acts 10:43-48) (whoever, water baptism follows belief and Holy Spirit’s work of salvation)
12.(Acts 13:38-39, 48) (everyone)
13.(Acts 15:8-11)
14.(Acts 16:30-31)(answer to a direct question: What must I do to be saved?)
15.(Acts 26:18)
16. (Romans 1:16) (everyone)
17.(Romans 3:20-31) (all who believe)
18.(Romans 4:1-11)
19.(Romans 4:23-25)
20.(Romans 5:1-21)
21.(Romans 9:30-33) (whoever)
22.(Romans 10:4-13) (everyone, whoever)
23. Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:1-28 (whoever, baptism secondary to faith)
24. Galatians 5:5-6
25. Ephesians 2:8-10
26. Philippians 3:4-14
27. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
28. Hebrews 4:2-3
29. 1 Peter 2:6
30. 1 John 1:5-10
31. 1 John 4:15 (God abides in whoever confesses Christ)
32. 1 John 5:1, 10-13 (whoever)

 

[Hadsa]

water baptism is not necessary my freind, simply look to the thief on the cross yes it should be done when possible but not necessary.
welcome to JT[/QUOTE}
I hear this response all the time. Are you a thief on the cross? Should we who are raised on scripture say it is not necessary, when scripture does say the Spirit, water and blood testify and all are in agreement? No! and that is the discussion. On this day you shall be with me in paradise, this is what Jesus said right?what does on this day mean? Did Christ ascend right there and then? What happened when He died, His side was pierced and it began to rain and both blood and water flowed from His side. You use an act of Mercy of Christ on a man who DID NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES for the Church was not fully established and what the Apostles witnessed and were charged with writing down must be applied and taught by those who are hires of the kingdom of heaven. Not one dot or letter of the Law will be abolished but fulfilled.

The Fulfillment of the Law Matthew 5:17-19
17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
AND JOHN WAS A PROPHET my friend.

All Scripture is God-Breathed 2timothy 3:15-17
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

Was the thief on the cross to teach of the Word? No! But those alive who have been raised on scripture are. He had not the chance to preach the gospel.

The thief on the cross does not make null and void the established doctrine that Christ laid and completed in His apostles . He- showing mercy for a man who did not follow or know the truth until his last hour is the Lords business. But to not teach as doctrine baptism by water or say it is not necessary is not the teaching of the foundation. The Word is clear. It is not mercy to tell people water baptism is not necessary when the gospel has been preached to the four corners of the earth and you and many others are not being hindered from baptizing or being baptized because you are not hanging on a cross. The Lord has mercy on whom he chooses. If the man on the cross heard the message of John would he have been baptized? God judges a man's heart. I will add, the rain which fell as the water that flowed from Christ's side was that man's anointing by water. But this matters not, the Word clearly states the necessity of this baptism as to be taught by any assembly of God.

The Great Commission Mathew 28:18-19
…18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”…

It does not say; "Go- treat everyone like the thief on the cross, who do not know this gospel, they are all dying so you need not apply the doctrine fully, simply pardon and not preach the gospel". That is what you are saying by Not fully understanding the Word. You and ALL are charged as co hires of the kingdom of heaven to spread the gospel of repentance which includes the baptism of repentance. You are judged upon what you know and what you do and do not apply. Your works should be a reflection of your faith. And the faith teaches be baptized by water and the spirit in faith agrees.

 

[Hadsa]

I hear this response all the time. Are you a thief on the cross? Should we who are raised on scripture say it is not necessary, when scripture does say the Spirit, water and blood testify and all are in agreement? No! and that is the discussion. On this day you shall be with me in paradise, this is what Jesus said right?what does on this day mean? Did Christ ascend right there and then? What happened when He died, His side was pierced and it began to rain and both blood and water flowed from His side. You use an act of Mercy of Christ on a man who DID NOT KNOW THE SCRIPTURES for the Church was not fully established and what the Apostles witnessed and were charged with writing down must be applied and taught by those who are hires of the kingdom of heaven. Not one jot or letter of the Law will be abolished but fulfilled.

The Fulfillment of the Law Matthew 5:17-19
17Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. 18For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19So then, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do likewise will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.…
AND JOHN WAS A PROPHET my friend.

All Scripture is God-Breathed 2timothy 3:15-17
…15From infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. 16All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for instruction, for conviction, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17so that the man of God may be complete, fully equipped for every good work.…

Was the thief on the cross to teach of the Word? No! But those alive who have been raised on scripture are. He had not the chance to preach the gospel.

The thief on the cross does not make null and void the established doctrine that Christ laid and completed in His apostles . He- showing mercy for a man who did not follow or know the truth until his last hour is the Lords business. But to not teach as doctrine baptism by water or say it is not necessary is not the teaching of the foundation. The Word is clear. It is not mercy to tell people water baptism is not necessary when the gospel has been preached to the four corners of the earth and you and many others are not being hindered from baptizing or being baptized because you are not hanging on a cross. The Lord has mercy on whom he chooses. If the man on the cross heard the message of John would he have been baptized? God judges a man's heart. I will add, the rain which fell as the water that flowed from Christ's side was that man's anointing by water. But this matters not, the Word clearly states the necessity of this baptism as to be taught by any assembly of God.

The Great Commission Mathew 28:18-19
…18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”…

It does not say; "Go- treat everyone like the thief on the cross, who do not know this gospel, they are all dying so you need not apply the doctrine fully, simply pardon and not preach the gospel". That is what you are saying by Not fully understanding the Word. You and ALL are charged as co hires of the kingdom of heaven to spread the gospel of repentance which includes the baptism of repentance. You are judged upon what you know and what you do and do not apply. Your works should be a reflection of your faith. And the faith teaches be baptized by water and the spirit in faith agrees.

 

[Hadsa]

32 scriptures that speak of salvation, without being water baptized.

1. (John 1:12)
2. (John 3:14-18) (whoever)
3. (John 5:24)
4. (John 6:29-40) (whoever, everyone)
5. (John 11:25-26)(whoever)
6. (John 12:46-50)(whoever)
7. (John 16:7-9) (not believe)
8. (John 17:20-22)
9. (John 20:31)
10.(Acts 2:21,33) (everyone)
11.(Acts 10:43-48) (whoever, water baptism follows belief and Holy Spirit’s work of salvation)
12.(Acts 13:38-39, 48) (everyone)
13.(Acts 15:8-11)
14.(Acts 16:30-31)(answer to a direct question: What must I do to be saved?)
15.(Acts 26:18)
16. (Romans 1:16) (everyone)
17.(Romans 3:20-31) (all who believe)
18.(Romans 4:1-11)
19.(Romans 4:23-25)
20.(Romans 5:1-21)
21.(Romans 9:30-33) (whoever)
22.(Romans 10:4-13) (everyone, whoever)
23. Galatians 2:15-21, Galatians 3:1-28 (whoever, baptism secondary to faith)
24. Galatians 5:5-6
25. Ephesians 2:8-10
26. Philippians 3:4-14
27. 2 Thessalonians 2:16-17
28. Hebrews 4:2-3
29. 1 Peter 2:6
30. 1 John 1:5-10
31. 1 John 4:15 (God abides in whoever confesses Christ)
32. 1 John 5:1, 10-13 (whoever)

If you are in prison and no water is available and you preach to those souls in prison then yes it is enough that a man profess Christ especially if that man confront death. That is an extreme , and possible scenario. That is not the issue. The issue is stating in a cavalier manner that it is NOT necessary when scripture clearly says it is. An onlooker could misinterpret the purpose of the assembly of God........ in purpose- concerning application of doctrine if not more clearly stated.

 

[Curtis]

If you are in prison and no water is available and you preach to those souls in prison then yes it is enough that a man profess Christ especially if that man confront death. That is an extreme , and possible scenario. That is not the issue. The issue is stating in a cavalier manner that it is NOT necessary when scripture clearly says it is. An onlooker could misinterpret the purpose of the assembly of God........ in purpose- concerning application of doctrine if not more clearly stated.

I never said not to be baptized any were. I said it is not absolutely necessary for salvation. If you can be baptized I would highly recommend it to every one. The only saving part water baptism has in salvation is it "saves" our conscience from wondering if we should or not.

1Pe 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Hadsa]

1 Peter 3:21
21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
That is right because baptism is more than cleaning dirt off your body . When received in FAITH it has great rewards - a clean good conscience, and the rest of the verses state this Most clearly. Faith and works- in faith it works and is a performance done in faith (work done in faith which shows your faith).
1Peter 3:13-22
13 Now who will harm you if you are eager to do what is good? 14 But even if you do suffer for doing what is right, you are blessed. Do not fear what they fear, and do not be intimidated, 15 but in your hearts sanctify Christ as Lord. Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you; 16 yet do it with gentleness and reverence. Keep your conscience clear, so that, when you are maligned, those who abuse you for your good conduct in Christ may be put to shame. 17 For it is better to suffer for doing good, if suffering should be God’s will, than to suffer for doing evil. 18 For Christ also suffered for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, in order to bring you to God. He was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, 19 in which also he went and made a proclamation to the spirits in prison, 20 who in former times did not obey, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. 21 And baptism, which this prefigured, now saves you—not as a removal of dirt from the body, but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with angels, authorities, and powers made subject to him.

No matter what, it is to be taught as necessary always. Only extreme circumstances could hinder this action, not a teaching to others that it is not necessary. All assemblies= churches-(meaning of assembly) should always teach what is foundational in common circumstance , extreme circumstance Christ has it covered. I pray we may all teach the doctrine in common circumstances always- and protected from the trials of extreme. Since you have now made clear to me and perhaps others that it is NOT ABSOLUTELY necessary concerning extreme circumstances like the man on the cross, and or prison with a sentence of death and no water available, we can be at peace with one another. Both of us are right in that case. I speak in always applicable (common terms) you in (extreme not always applicable terms). Peace in Christ!

 

[Born Again 2004]

Isn't it the baptism by the Spirit that automatically happens at the moment Of salvation? There's been confusion relating to 'baptism' OF or IN the the Holy Spirit and the term 'a second-blessing' is associated with baptism OF the Holy Spirit.

Yes!!! It is the only true baptism that counts and my point is it can happen in our out of the water or whether you are baptized in water or not, much less by immersion. There have been plenty of soldiers baptized by the holy spirit on the battle field.