Sinless Perfection And The Truth That Sets You Free

[At Peace]

Greetings,
if this is so, is there a solution and if so, what is it?
"Can I attain to it?"
Bless you ....><>

It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)
If you are TRULY sorry for your sins, you won't do them again.
Peter outlines the path to salvation in Acts 2:38..."Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
Turn from sin with a truly sorrowful heart with every intention of doing it permanently.
Get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your past sins. But also to be "immersed" into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection. (Rom 6:3-6)
Do these things, and you will be given the gift of the Holy Ghost-Comforter.
God will provide everything you need to grow in grace and knowledge from that point.
He will protect you from temptation, (1 Cor 10:13), and strengthen you to carry out His will all the time.
It IS incumbent on us to continue to pray and study, to refute false doctrine and promote that which is good.
We will be held accountable at the final judgement for all we do in the name of Christ, and God's judgement is just.

It IS attainable, thanks be to God!

 

[At Peace]

The only way to "reconcile" the "light cleansing us from all sin", and "if we say we have no sin we deceive our self's" is by understanding this. God only holds man accountable for what he knows. As it is written, "....unto whom much is given, much is required.." (Luke 12:48) A man is required to "walk in the light that he has", which means according to the revelation he has of the Word of God. Man is to walk according to that understanding he has. If a man does this, then the blood of Jesus Christ will cleanse him from all sin, but man can not say he has no sin or else we would never need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from anything. This all has to do with growing spiritually. The Lord knows man is not going to get to a mature spiritual state as it takes many many years, if not through eternity as he learns and grows spiritually.

How many men tell lies without knowing they are lies?
Commit adultery?
Steal?
Kill?
We are to love God above all else and our neighbor as we love ourselves.
What is it "we don't know" that will accommodate more sin?
Nothing.
If you find out something you are doing is hurting someone...or yourself, quit doing it.
If you didn't feel it was a sin, it wasn't.
And I still can't think of an example...

My take away from 1 John 1 is...walk in the light. where there is no sin at all.
If you walk in the darkness, sin, you cannot say you have fellowship with God...or that you have no sin.

 

[Curtis]

How many men tell lies without knowing they are lies?
Commit adultery?
Steal?
Kill?
We are to love God above all else and our neighbor as we love ourselves.
What is it "we don't know" that will accommodate more sin?
Nothing.
If you find out something you are doing is hurting someone...or yourself, quit doing it.
If you didn't feel it was a sin, it wasn't.
And I still can't think of an example...

My take away from 1 John 1 is...walk in the light. where there is no sin at all.
If you walk in the darkness, sin, you cannot say you have fellowship with God...or that you have no sin.

Ever heard of "mercy", and "grace"? Where ever sin abounds grace does much more abound. If you ever find a person who says they do not sin, that person is self deceived.

1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts]. (AMP)

 

[At Peace]

Ever heard of "mercy", and "grace"? Where ever sin abounds grace does much more abound. If you ever find a person who says they do not sin, that person is self deceived.

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
GOD FORBID!
How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin." (Rom 6:1-7)
Did you catch that last verse?
Freed from sin?

1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts]. (AMP)

Addressed by John to the men walking in darkness. As are verses 6 and 10.
But if we walk in the light, God, wherein is no sin, we can remain washed by the blood of Christ.
I choose to remain in the light.
Thanks be to God.

 

[Curtis]

Here is where the deception lies, and only because of not reconciling other scriptures together. As Jesus once said, "...a good tree can not produce bad fruit...." The proof that this is true today is found in this scripture...

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We can not take this scripture as a means of saying a born again Christian can never sin, because any living being who is born of God knows that he still sins, but not on purpose.
As the Apostle Paul said....

Rom 7:16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.

As long as we are still living in a physical body, sin will be present. Sin dwells in the flesh, not in man's born again spirit. Then why do Christians still sin?

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Who is responsible to keeping, and not letting sin reign in our mortal bodies? We are!!

Paul tells Timothy who the Lord uses for his work....

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Iniquity is lawlessness which is sin

2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

Only a Christian who has "purged himself from iniquity (sin)" who will be used by God, prepared, and ready for every good work.

 

[Br. Bear]

I choose to remain in the light.
Thanks be to God.

Good choice and don't let anyone take it away from you!


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world Philippians 2:15

 

[At Peace]

Here is where the deception lies, and only because of not reconciling other scriptures together. As Jesus once said, "...a good tree can not produce bad fruit...." The proof that this is true today is found in this scripture...

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

We can not take this scripture as a means of saying a born again Christian can never sin, because any living being who is born of God knows that he still sins, but not on purpose.

You just said the scripture you sited was a lie.

As the Apostle Paul said....
Rom 7:16 Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good.
Rom 7:17 So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me.
As long as we are still living in a physical body, sin will be present. Sin dwells in the flesh, not in man's born again spirit. Then why do Christians still sin?

Christians don't "still sin".
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Who is responsible to keeping, and not letting sin reign in our mortal bodies? We are!!
Paul tells Timothy who the Lord uses for his work....
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
Iniquity is lawlessness which is sin
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
Only a Christian who has "purged himself from iniquity (sin)" who will be used by God, prepared, and ready for every good work.

This second part of your post seems like a different man wrote it
The first part of your post makes a defense of sin, while the second exhorts us to righteousness.
There two minds can't coexist.
Choose which you will be a servant of.

 

[Curtis]

You just said the scripture you sited was a lie.


Christians don't "still sin".
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (that is, in my flesh).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me FREE FROM THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.


This second part of your post seems like a different man wrote it
The first part of your post makes a defense of sin, while the second exhorts us to righteousness.
There two minds can't coexist.
Choose which you will be a servant of.

1Jn 2:1 MY LITTLE children, I write you these things so that you may not violate God's law and sin. But if anyone should sin, we have an Advocate (One Who will intercede for us) with the Father--[it is] Jesus Christ [the all] righteous [upright, just, Who conforms to the Father's will in every purpose, thought, and action]. (AMP)

Is this talking about the world?

1Ti 5:19 Listen to no accusation [presented before a judge] against an elder unless it is confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses. [Deu_19:15]
1Ti 5:20 As for those who are guilty and persist in sin, rebuke and admonish them in the presence of all, so that the rest may be warned and stand in wholesome awe and fear. (AMP)

Is the Church suppose to rebuke the world, or does God himself deal with them?

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

 

[Curtis]

Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Would God discipline those who do NOT sin? Why would the Lord discipline, and or chastise his son? Maybe because they sin with out confessing it to him. Who are those who are not disciplined, or chastised? They are not sons of God?

 

[At Peace]

1Jn 2:1 MY LITTLE children, I write you these things so that you may not violate God's law and sin. But if anyone should sin, we have an Advocate (One Who will intercede for us) with the Father--[it is] Jesus Christ [the all] righteous [upright, just, Who conforms to the Father's will in every purpose, thought, and action]. (AMP)

Thanks be to God for that Advocate.
He was there for me when I "turned from:" sin.
He was there for me when I asked for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
He was there for me when my old self was killed and buried...and when I was raised with Christ to walk in newness of life.
And He is still here with me to guard me from too much temptation.
This verse is addressed to those who have NOT yet turned to or relied on God.
If you count yourself still as disobedient to God, that Advocate is there for you still.
Now, read the next five verses.

Is this talking about the world?
1Ti 5:19 Listen to no accusation [presented before a judge] against an elder unless it is confirmed by the testimony of two or three witnesses. [Deu_19:15]
1Ti 5:20 As for those who are guilty and persist in sin, rebuke and admonish them in the presence of all, so that the rest may be warned and stand in wholesome awe and fear. (AMP)

All exhortations in scripture are for the holy body of Christ.
The "world" will not hear them.

Is the Church suppose to rebuke the world, or does God himself deal with them?
1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

If you know someone still outside of Christ, and you love them, rebuke them.
But do it in love and the hope of getting them on the right path.
And be prepared to give up the closeness you once had if that person rejects the right ways of God.
For they have rejected you too.

 

[At Peace]

Heb 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
Heb 12:7 It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline?
Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Would God discipline those who do NOT sin? Why would the Lord discipline, and or chastise his son? Maybe because they sin with out confessing it to him. Who are those who are not disciplined, or chastised? They are not sons of God?

You are searching for loop-holes in the command to love God above all else.
If a man loves God, he will not offend God.
There is no need for discipline for the obedient.
But the obedient still must watch out for ignorance and stupidity.
If a faithful brother goes into a biker bar to "make friends with the club", in an effort to convert some, he may learn the true meaning of "cast not your pearls before swine".

Remain faithful and you won't encounter chastening.

 

[Br. Bear]

1Jn 2:1 MY LITTLE children,

I like the 'little children' part... keep going on that everyone... there may be more in it than we paused long enough to see!


Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

You are searching for loop-holes in the command to love God above all else.
If a man loves God, he will not offend God.
There is no need for discipline for the obedient.
But the obedient still must watch out for ignorance and stupidity.
If a faithful brother goes into a biker bar to "make friends with the club", in an effort to convert some, he may learn the true meaning of "cast not your pearls before swine".

Remain faithful and you won't encounter chastening.

Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

true...

but...
all have participated.
May I ask, all who? Hebrews? When? The nation or only those reading/hearing the Epistle/Letter?

A couple of thoughts that pop into my head as i read.

It's good to study and share together.


Bless you ....><>

 

[Br. Bear]

The Truth That Sets You Free - from title of this thread

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free John 8:32

and the verse prior... Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If ye continue in My word, then are ye My disciples indeed; verse 31

then in verse 36
If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
Sounds good! We know that Jesus is the Truth - He said so.

rewind two verses...
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

and if we venture to Romans... Chapter 6 first verses
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

as in... (verse 15)
What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

but it is OK.... (verses 17-18 - you can look up verse 16 if you want - recommended)
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

and verse 22 ...
But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

So, we all have nothing to worry about.

here's verse 16 anyway....
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?


Bless you ....><>

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free John 8:32

 

[Curtis]

May I ask, all who? Hebrews? When? The nation or only those reading/hearing the Epistle/Letter?

The lord disciplines every son whom he receives whether it be Hebrew or gentile. As the Apostle John said, "behold what manner of love the Lord has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God..."
Not only that, but a real Jew is not one whose circumcision is of the flesh made by hands, but that which is the circumcision of the heart.

Rom 2:29 No, a man is a Jew only if he is a Jew on the inside. And true circumcision means that the heart has been circumcised. It is done by the Holy Spirit. It is more than just obeying the written Law. Then a man's praise will not come from others. It will come from God.

Col 3:11 [In this new creation all distinctions vanish.] There is no room for and there can be neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, [nor difference between nations whether alien] barbarians or Scythians [who are the most savage of all], nor slave or free man; but Christ is all and in all [everything and everywhere, to all men, without distinction of person]. (AMP)

 

[Curtis]

I have been a Christian for more than 40+ years, and in those 40+ years I have stumbled, staggered, and fallen down many times. If I was sinless then I would never need the Blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse me from any sins I have committed. I would never need to confess my sins to God, which means we better just take that verse out of the Bible.
The fact is we all sin, and if we think we don't, we have deceived our own self's. If any man thinks he is something when he is nothing, he has deceived his own self. (Gal 6:3) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)

What baby child is ever born, and never do wrong? No such a thing. Sanctification is a life long process, and then some. Sin is the transgression of the law.

Have you ever lusted after a woman in your life after becoming a child of God? That is a sin. How many times? if more than once then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever cheated on your taxes? How many times?
Have you ever lied to anyone? That is a sin. How many times? If more than once then you are practicing sin.
Have you ever NOT done something you knew you should do? That is a sin.
Have you ever taken something home from work that does not belong to you? That is a sin. Yay, but I did not mean to. Makes no difference that is a sin.
Have you ever said something that was not of faith? That is sin. How many times have you spoken contrary to the Word of God? That is a sin, and if you have done it more that once, then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever driven faster than the posted speed limit? You are suppose to obey the laws of the land in which you live.
Have you ever spoken evil of another person? That is a sin.
Have ever beguiled someone to benefit your own self? That is a sin.
Do you support abortion?
Do you support Gay marriage?

Are you lying to your self that you don't do or have done any of these things after coming to Jesus?

 

[At Peace]

Heb 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

Amen.
My discipline included facing those I had sinned against and asking for their forgiveness, after being converted.,.
It included losing all my druggie friends and all my drag race friend. and all my drinking buddies..
It included dealing with the mental and physical problems inherent in an escapism life style.

That discipline has kept me mindful not to subject myself to it again.
Thanks be to God.

 

[At Peace]

The lord disciplines every son whom he receives whether it be Hebrew or gentile. As the Apostle John said, "behold what manner of love the Lord has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God..."
Not only that, but a real Jew is not one whose circumcision is of the flesh made by hands, but that which is the circumcision of the heart.

Rom 2:29 No, a man is a Jew only if he is a Jew on the inside. And true circumcision means that the heart has been circumcised. It is done by the Holy Spirit. It is more than just obeying the written Law. Then a man's praise will not come from others. It will come from God.

Col 3:11 [In this new creation all distinctions vanish.] There is no room for and there can be neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, [nor difference between nations whether alien] barbarians or Scythians [who are the most savage of all], nor slave or free man; but Christ is all and in all [everything and everywhere, to all men, without distinction of person]. (AMP)

Do you think people who still cater to the "flesh" have had their hearts circumcised?