Sinless Perfection And The Truth That Sets You Free

[At Peace]

I have been a Christian for more than 40+ years, and in those 40+ years I have stumbled, staggered, and fallen down many times. If I was sinless then I would never need the Blood of Jesus Christ to cleanse me from any sins I have committed. I would never need to confess my sins to God, which means we better just take that verse out of the Bible.
The fact is we all sin, and if we think we don't, we have deceived our own self's. If any man thinks he is something when he is nothing, he has deceived his own self. (Gal 6:3) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (1 John 1:8)

This sounds like another perspective of Heb 6:6.

What baby child is ever born, and never do wrong? No such a thing. Sanctification is a life long process, and then some. Sin is the transgression of the law.

What baby fig ever acted like a grape?
The seed we are born of is manifested by our actions.

Have you ever lusted after a woman in your life after becoming a child of God? That is a sin. How many times? if more than once then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever cheated on your taxes? How many times?
Have you ever lied to anyone? That is a sin. How many times? If more than once then you are practicing sin.
Have you ever NOT done something you knew you should do? That is a sin.
Have you ever taken something home from work that does not belong to you? That is a sin. Yay, but I did not mean to. Makes no difference that is a sin.
Have you ever said something that was not of faith? That is sin. How many times have you spoken contrary to the Word of God? That is a sin, and if you have done it more that once, then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever driven faster than the posted speed limit? You are suppose to obey the laws of the land in which you live.
Have you ever spoken evil of another person? That is a sin.
Have ever beguiled someone to benefit your own self? That is a sin.
Do you support abortion?
Do you support Gay marriage?

What is the purpose of such a line of questioning?
Do you want me, and everyone else, to be like you, or to be like Jesus?

Are you lying to your self that you don't do or have done any of these things after coming to Jesus?

No, I don't tell lies.
Why do you ignore Paul's exhortation in 1 Cor 15:34..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
And how about these?...
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:15-16)

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)

"But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." (James 1:4)

"If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." (James 3:2)

"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, “Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15-16)

”For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:” (1 Pet.2:21-22)

"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:3-4)

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)

"Never fall".
I really hope that appeals to you.

 

[Curtis]

This sounds like another perspective of Heb 6:6.


What baby fig ever acted like a grape?
The seed we are born of is manifested by our actions.


What is the purpose of such a line of questioning?
Do you want me, and everyone else, to be like you, or to be like Jesus?


No, I don't tell lies.
Why do you ignore Paul's exhortation in 1 Cor 15:34..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame."
And how about these?...
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (2 Tim 3:16-17)

"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:15-16)

"But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul." (Heb 10:39)

"But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing." (James 1:4)

"If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body." (James 3:2)

"But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
Because it is written, “Be ye holy; for I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15-16)

”For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:” (1 Pet.2:21-22)

"Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;" (1 Peter 4:1)

"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:3-4)

"Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:" (2 Peter 1:10)

"Never fall".
I really hope that appeals to you.

Have you ever lusted after a woman in your life after becoming a child of God? That is a sin. How many times? if more than once then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever cheated on your taxes? How many times?
Have you ever lied to anyone? That is a sin. How many times? If more than once then you are practicing sin.
Have you ever NOT done something you knew you should do? That is a sin.
Have you ever taken something home from work that does not belong to you? That is a sin. Yay, but I did not mean to. Makes no difference that is a sin.
Have you ever said something that was not of faith? That is sin. How many times have you spoken contrary to the Word of God? That is a sin, and if you have done it more that once, then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever driven faster than the posted speed limit? You are suppose to obey the laws of the land in which you live.
Have you ever spoken evil of another person? That is a sin.
Have ever beguiled someone to benefit your own self? That is a sin.
Do you support abortion?
Do you support Gay marriage?

So, can you say you never done any of these things before? Yes or No?

The problem with people who say they are "sinless" in this life is proof to themselves, and to everyone else that they are not. It is all based on "pride" that makes them better than anyone else. The "Pharisees" had the exact same thinking. Even the Apostle Paul never claimed to be perfect in this life which is why he was reaching forth to those things that before him. Let me ask you have you ever sinned?

If anyone says they are have no sin have called God a liar, and the truth is not in them. Knowing what the Bible says and having truth are two different things. Truth will always expose sin within man. If there is no truth there no sin at least not to them.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

Jas 3:8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

 

[At Peace]

Have you ever lusted after a woman in your life after becoming a child of God? That is a sin. How many times? if more than once then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever cheated on your taxes? How many times?
Have you ever lied to anyone? That is a sin. How many times? If more than once then you are practicing sin.
Have you ever NOT done something you knew you should do? That is a sin.
Have you ever taken something home from work that does not belong to you? That is a sin. Yay, but I did not mean to. Makes no difference that is a sin.
Have you ever said something that was not of faith? That is sin. How many times have you spoken contrary to the Word of God? That is a sin, and if you have done it more that once, then according to some you are practicing sin.
Have you ever driven faster than the posted speed limit? You are suppose to obey the laws of the land in which you live.
Have you ever spoken evil of another person? That is a sin.
Have ever beguiled someone to benefit your own self? That is a sin.
Do you support abortion?
Do you support Gay marriage?

So, can you say you never done any of these things before? Yes or No?

The problem with people who say they are "sinless" in this life is proof to themselves, and to everyone else that they are not. It is all based on "pride" that makes them better than anyone else. The "Pharisees" had the exact same thinking. Even the Apostle Paul never claimed to be perfect in this life which is why he was reaching forth to those things that before him. Let me ask you have you ever sinned?

If anyone says they are have no sin have called God a liar, and the truth is not in them. Knowing what the Bible says and having truth are two different things. Truth will always expose sin within man. If there is no truth there no sin at least not to them.

1John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Jas 3:2 For we all stumble in many ways. And if anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able also to bridle his whole body.

Jas 3:8 but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison.

The view of Christianity you represent is of a cauldron of wickedness and hate.
Theft, adultery, lies, blasphemy and murder reign in your "christianity".
Jesus didn't die and resurrect to allow us to ferment in filth.
He came so we too could partake in the victory over sin won by Christ.

Do you love Jesus?
More than adultery or theft?
More than murder or lies?
More than covetousness or blasphemy?
Your life, from this point forward, will illustrate your answer..

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

I suppose a 'better' way to put this....

Do you love Jesus?
More than adultery or theft?
More than murder or lies?
More than covetousness or blasphemy?
Your life, from this point forward, will illustrate your answer..

might be...
Do I love Jesus?
More than adultery or theft?
More than murder or lies?
More than covetousness or blasphemy?
My life, from this point forward, will illustrate my answer..


Bless you ....><>

 

[At Peace]

Greetings,
I suppose a 'better' way to put this....
might be...
Do I love Jesus?
More than adultery or theft?
More than murder or lies?
More than covetousness or blasphemy?
My life, from this point forward, will illustrate my answer..
Bless you ....><>

We all have the chance to do what is right in God's eyes.

 

[Curtis]

Verse 7 says ALL our sin can be cleansed...if we walk in the light.
Can't those who remain in the light say they have no sin?

The answer is "no". No one can say they are without sin. If we are walking in the light as he is in the....the blood of Jesus Christ is cleansing us from all sin. What sin? The sin we do that we are unaware of. If we are being sinless in the light then we would not need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from sin.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

then we would not need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from sin.

show me the blood and I will show you the tree (cross)


Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

Greetings,



show me the blood and I will show you the tree (cross)


Bless you ....><>

There is not one scripture in the Bible that says God forgives of all our future sins before we commit them after becoming a child of God. The Lord forgives our past sins, (2 Peter 1:9) and any known sins after that you have to confess to him, or he will chastise, and correct as any good Father would.
(1 John 1:9) (Hebrews 12:6)

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings Curtis,

There is not one scripture in the Bible that says God forgives of all our future sins before we commit them after becoming a child of God. The Lord forgives our past sins, (2 Peter 1:9) and any known sins after that you have to confess to him, or he will chastise, and correct as any good Father would.
(1 John 1:9) (Hebrews 12:6)

Nice to be able to discuss with you.

One might say that a child of God does not commit sin. When push comesto shove, along with many supporting Scriptures regarding 'a child of God' it would appear to be the case.
However, in order to address your reply, is it correct that the shed bllod at Calvary only covered the sins of the world up until that time?
With this in mind, does that mean that any sin committed after Jesus gave His life a ransom can be forgiven by God by some other means and that the Blood is no longer a part of the forgiveness propitiation?

for the sake of Scriptural study and precept upon precept, the passage you presented from Hebrews is quoted from the Old Testament and the writer is after all writing to the Hebrews and reminding them of what the Scriptures they (ought to) know have said regarding this, which also offers them the fullness of Christ being Christ, as they were well aware of all the chastening their forefathers had to be chastened with. This, as in all the letters are given to declare Jesus as the Christ.
We have a fairly good idea about that now with two thousand yars and oodles of Bibles etc but they had only the past which they held before them when moving forward to look at. The writer is pointing them to Jesus the Son of God being the Christ or Messiah.
Perceding that passage we read, from Hebrews 12:1-5

1Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us, 2Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds. 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:

and PLEASE do not forget that the chapters were put in for some sort of convenience and the above quoted passage folows directly on from what we call chapter 11
A snippet from there
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Hebrews 11:39-40
and so it is best that we read the whole passage and not only a few bits to make a doctrine, agreed? (I am sure you do agree)
Likewise, going to 1John, as i have tried to point out elsewhere, (But don't take my word for it) The Apostle John was telling the readers/hearers what he and the other Apostles had both seen and heard and handled and witnessed while with Jesus and he is telling them what Jesus taught. As with the above explanation, the readers/hearers did not have what we have at our disposal much less the ease with which to pick and choose and live in worldly luxury, comfort and freedom.

I imagine some of the Apostles knew they were going to be executed and/or die and they left in writing the Gospel spelt out for their readers many of whom were actually hearers only. The readers/hears did not have the gospels as we do.

and the verse from 2Peter you presented, says what?
Perhaps the preceding verses might help us to understand? I shall underline a couple of bits as well:
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: 2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, 3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: 4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. 5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;

6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ


Bless you ....><>

ps verse 5,6 &7 are some of my favourites, if i was to have any

 

[Curtis]

sin committed after Jesus gave His life a ransom can be forgiven by God by some other means and that the Blood is no longer a part of the forgiveness propitiation?

The Blood of Jesus Christ will never dry up, nor will ever not be needed which why Jesus was crucified through the "eternal Spirit" Any born again Christian who sins after receiving salvation, and forgiveness of his sins past will still sin which requires his confession of those sins, which is why we are told.

1John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

1John 1:8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1John 1:10 If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

This is pretty simple to understand, and needs no interpretation. What happens if we sin after becoming a child, do we loose our salvation? If any of my children while growing up disobeyed me, they could never not be my children, but are in need of discipline, and or correction which to them seemed grievous.

If anyone says they have no sin in this life has called God a liar, and the truth is not in them, because the very first thing the Word of God exposes in man is his sinfulness.
If any man says he is with chastisement is also not a child because ALL sons of God are chastised, and corrected in this life.

Heb 12:8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Surely God does NOT chastises us because we have no sin, but because we do sin.
No tree grows in an instant with fruit already on it, as it takes time.

Pro 4:18 But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.

Don't you think it odd for someone to say they without sin? Are you without sin? The only person would ever say that is someone who does not know God, and thinks of himself to be something when he is nothing.
Love always speaks the truth no matter what anyone else thinks. Don't forget the devil knows the scriptures, but he has no understanding of if, or he would have never crucified the Lord of Glory.

Pro 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

This is one reason why Jesus was killed, because he spoke the truth to every one to let them know where they stood.

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

This is one reason why Jesus was killed, because he spoke the truth to every one to let them know where they stood.

They got mighty upset as He exposed their need, as a light that shines in the darkness.

I think you might find some of your takes on some of those Scriptures a little off the mark. The crowd might be wrong.
Which is not to say that denying sin is condoned, not at all.

Those who know this know also what to do from then on.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1


Bless you ....><>

 

[Curtis]

Greetings,



They got mighty upset as He exposed their need, as a light that shines in the darkness.

I think you might find some of your takes on some of those Scriptures a little off the mark. The crowd might be wrong.
Which is not to say that denying sin is condoned, not at all.

Those who know this know also what to do from then on.

Judge not, that ye be not judged. Matthew 7:1


Bless you ....><>

Jesus never said not to "judge" in fact he said do not judge according to appearance, but with righteousness. (John 7:24)

Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

 

[Blunder_Duck]

This seems like it is the other thread, if you fail just once.
The law did fail because it was made for imperfect people to follow what was said to be impossible to follow without fail.

Jesus died and that law was washed away. Now we are redeemed from our sins which means we are no longer categorized as sinner. Because being a a sinner meant the person was dead in that state.
Now we walk with the guidance of the holy spirit that indwells us. And if we stumble we are aware we erred, and that then is that form of repentance. Because we learn how to live a righteous life and we know how to identify what is unrighteous due to our past experience as sinners.

 

[BLACKSHEEP]

Curtis said,

Jesus never said not to "judge"

Bear already posted Mathew 7:1...

Mathew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

 

[At Peace]

The answer is "no". No one can say they are without sin. If we are walking in the light as he is in the....the blood of Jesus Christ is cleansing us from all sin. What sin? The sin we do that we are unaware of. If we are being sinless in the light then we would not need the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from sin.

So you say that no man can remain in the light.
I disagree.
If we are walking in the light, (God), all our past sins have been washed away by the blood of Christ.
We can say we have no sin.
Those who return to the darkness cannot say they have no sin.
They say they have fellowship with God, but are lying and don't know the truth.

 

[At Peace]

This seems like it is the other thread, if you fail just once.
The law did fail because it was made for imperfect people to follow what was said to be impossible to follow without fail.

Jesus died and that law was washed away. Now we are redeemed from our sins which means we are no longer categorized as sinner. Because being a a sinner meant the person was dead in that state.

Scripture please.

Now we walk with the guidance of the holy spirit that indwells us. And if we stumble we are aware we erred, and that then is that form of repentance. Because we learn how to live a righteous life and we know how to identify what is unrighteous due to our past experience as sinners.

You are saying that the Spirit will guide us into sin.
Either He is guiding you or He isn't.
If one sins, the Spirit isn't in them.
It is written..."But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." (Rom 8:9)

 

[Curtis]

So you say that no man can remain in the light.
I disagree.
If we are walking in the light, (God), all our past sins have been washed away by the blood of Christ.
We can say we have no sin.
Those who return to the darkness cannot say they have no sin.
They say they have fellowship with God, but are lying and don't know the truth.

All of man's past sins have been removed as far as the east is from the west.
Man still sins, and if any man says he has no sin he is self deceived, and the truth is not in him, and has called God a liar! (1 John 1:8)
Walking in the light has to do with walking in what man knows as truth revealed by the Spirit of God. the Blood of Jesus washes away sins we do unknowingly while walking in the light.
The sins we are conscience of need to be confessed to God.

 

[Curtis]

Curtis said,


Bear already posted Mathew 7:1...

Mathew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

We are commanded to Judge, but, we must judge our self first before we can judge others!

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Psa 37:30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.

1Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1Cor 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
1Cor 6:4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
1Cor 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

 

[Br. Bear]

Greetings,

Jesus never said not to "judge" in fact he said do not judge according to appearance, but with righteousness. (John 7:24)

Mat 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

He also said other things about judge and judging. Quite a lot was said also in the Scriptures (Old Testament)

A bit more meaning to it than some might think looking at only one verse and a few comments.


Bless you and thank you for replying ....><>

 

[Curtis]

Greetings,



He also said other things about judge and judging. Quite a lot was said also in the Scriptures (Old Testament)

A bit more meaning to it than some might think looking at only one verse and a few comments.


Bless you and thank you for replying ....><>

Not only are we commanded to judge Paul said the Church brought shamed to them selves for not judging between the brothers. There is an entire book in the Old Testament called "Judges"

1Co 6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?