Speaking in Tongues: Required for Regeneration?.

[Waggles]

not fake tongues.

Well these so-called "fake" tongues receive many marvellous answers from God - healings, miracles, blessings, problems solved, overcoming sin, etc etc etc
I will continue with what I have - the power of God dwelling within me.
And what does your church have to offer??

 

[Shaolin]

During the time of the Apostles and the laying of the foundation of the teachings of salvation through Jesus Christ...there were homes that people met at and were called churches. The people met together to be taught by the Apostles in person, or by sharing books and letters, which are our scriptures. It was also a time that the prophets prophesied and tongue speakers and interpreters of tongues spoke of the gospel revealing the mysterious of Jesus Christ.

It is all finished a long time ago. There are no more Apostles, and there can't be, because Apostles are the firsts who had the gospel from Jesus Christ and taught us what they learned from Jesus and not by any man. The foundation has been laid, the mystery has been given, and there are no more tongues and prophecies and new knowledge, for the scriptures are finished and we have all the scriptures we need to guide us to eternal life.

What we have is the Bible and to find God's Truth and get saved and have Jesus as our Teacher, all we have to do is get Jesus' teachings in the New Testament and if and when he accepts you, you will be given the Holy Spirit and you will be given understanding.

Again, you demonstrate that you don't know Scripture and that you don't know what you are talking about...again, for the benefit of the readers (since you are not listening)...

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And God gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

Again...God has appointed "in the church" which means as long as the church is gracing the face of the earth, there will be apostles. Then you make another false point that you obviously do not understand, that an "apostle" was only a person who learned the Gospel straight from Christ Himself, which Scripture says otherwise:

Acts 14:14
But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out,

Galatians 1:19
But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.

According to Scripture, not the false ideologies of carnal men, Barnabas and James were also apostles, yet neither of them learned from the mouth of Jesus. You have been demonstrated a peddler of false information on two accounts now where Scripture says that you are wrong.

...

 

[Shaolin]

I learned this from Jesus my Teacher.

Since God does not contradict Himself, it is obvious that the voices you are hearing and listening to are NOT from God, which means they are not from Jesus.

I have received knowledge that I don't find anywhere else.

That should be a hint that the voices you are listening to are NOT from God...

Your insults and false judgments are no defense for the truth.

I didn't give you an insult or false judgment...the fact that you cannot see the truth right there in front of your eyes tells all about you...

I go against the Calvinists teachings. I don't belong to any denomination.

Not according to what you have typed from your own mind...

Some gifts have ceased, just as the Bible says they would.

And I have given you Scripture that Scripture cannot contradict. Therefore, if one passage says something that seems to contradict another passage, we must harmonize those two passages together because, again, God does NOT contradict Himself, ever! That means, your interpretation of the text is WRONG and in ERROR, not the Scripture. The sooner you come to grips with the fact that you are in error, the sooner you can begin to amend your personal false doctrine with Scripture.

You are condemning people like you are and think that is right?

Like Jesus said, I don't condemn anyone...Scripture and your own words will condemn you. Judging what you claim to be right or wrong is not condemning, you need to learn basic English it sounds like.

..

 

[Shaolin]

I can prove all my beliefs with scripture and am just showing you how to find the truth too and not just have some teaching from some man or woman.

Actually, you have not proven any of your personal beliefs with Scripture, because you don't know how to read and interpret Scripture...you have demonstrated that very clearly. In fact, Scripture has proven you to NOT know what you are talking about, on at least three different counts now.

This demonstrates exactly what I say when I say that you don't know what you are talking about. You "think" you do, but Scripture demonstrates that you do not.

..

 

[Shaolin]

In the Old Testament, old law times, people saw darkly, dimly, they only had prophecy in part, and they were as children, until Jesus came the first time.

Now read this next scripture, it says when perfect is comes which is in part shall be done away.
We have all the prophecies we needed, the mysteries have been revealed, they aren't in part as they once were during the Old Testament times.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

Now read about when I was a child and what that means.
It is about being under the Old Testament times. Paul refers to that time as the people being as a child, because they didn't have Jesus yet.

Galatians 4 Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

2 But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

Did you read that? When we were children is about being under the old law.
Galatians 3:24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith.
So now that Jesus has come, we are no longer as a child. The perfect has come.

1 Corinthians 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

We no longer see through a glass darkly, for they have seen him face to face.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

See here how Peter explains it:

2 Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

The Old Testament believers waited a long time for God to reveal Jesus to us, and in the New Testament time people prophesied about what God finally revealed to us what He wanted us to know. We have the mysteries revealed, and we have all the teachings we need to lead us to eternal life, we cannot add or subtract from the finished work, we cannot add new prophecies and knowledge to the Bible. The perfect has come.

When you only have prophesy in part (as in the Old Testament times), the prophecy has not yet been fulfilled, and more prophecy is needed, it is imperfect. However, when there is fulfillment of prophecy (as in the New Testament times), then we have full understanding; so then, it is perfect and, that which is perfect is come.

The perfect Jesus Christ came, he gave his perfect teachings about the perfect New Covenant, he gave the perfect sacrifice, and we are made perfect by his blood and obeying his perfect words.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

The Bible has everything we need to know for salvation, for our being perfect.
When we have faith in Jesus’ blood and obey Jesus’ teachings, it is when and how we are made perfect.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

James 1:25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.

The nowadays tongue speakers claim that tongue speaking will not cease until Jesus comes again. However, we have the perfect now because Jesus came the first time, and the apostles, who were sent to lay the foundation and build upon it.

Again, Jesus the perfect came the first time, and gave the perfect law, and he is the perfect sacrifice who makes us perfect. The Bible is finished and we have Christ revealed, the mystery has been given we are no longer as children speaking as children under the old law.

Yes, those verses do say what they say, the problem is that your interpretation is way out in left field - a strike and error on your part. Because you don't know the basic rules of Biblical interpretation, you jack up the intended meaning of these verses and read into them what your false bias tells you to see.

..

 

[Shaolin]

There are people who say Paul was speaking of himself still doing the sins that gave him the self given title the Chief of Sinners.
No way was Paul speaking of himself as still doing the sins he did before being saved.

See...this is what I mean. I child could understand what Paul is saying in the text when it is made easier to read...for your sake, I will attempt to help you understand since you can't grasp it on your own:

Romans 7:15-25*
15 I do not understand my own actions; how I keep doing what I hate instead of what I keep wanting to do.
16 Now, if I am doing what I do not want to do, then I agree with the law - it is good.
17 So, now I am no longer the one authoring those actions, but it is the sin nature that dwells within my flesh that is doing them;
18 I understand that nothing good dwells within me - that is, nothing good dwells within my flesh; because I have the desire to do what is right in God's eyes, but my flesh gives me no power to carry out those things.
19 Because the things that I do are not the things that I want to do, but the wickedness that I do not want to be doing, that is what I keep on doing.
20 This is a spiritual principal: if I keep doing what I do not want to do after the inner man, then it is no longer my doing - the sin that dwells within my flesh is now the cause.
21 Therefore, I find it to be a spiritual principal that when I want to do what is right in God's eyes, wickedness is always present,
22 because I delight in the law of God according to the inner man...
23 but I see a different principal in my body of flesh that continuously wages war against the law of my mind, and constantly tries to dominate me and bring me back into subjection to the principal of sin that still dwells in my body.
24 How miserable this makes me! What can deliver me from this flesh of sinful appetites for death?
25 But thanksgiving be to God through Jesus Christ the Lord! Therefore, accordingly, in my inner man I serve the law of God, but the flesh is bound in slavery to the principal of sin.

This is straight from the Greek with its grammar fully intact (which most English translations butcher or ignore for their biased false doctrines). Pay careful attention to the personal pronouns Paul uses and their tense - all about him in the PRESENT TENSE. He says that he still has sin problems, he does not say that he doesn't. When we read the text and take it for what it says - not like you do and read into it what it does not say - then it is clear what Paul is teaching. The only way a person cannot see that is if they are allowing their false biases to blind them to that truth.

You were taught wrong about that scripture, and I want to help show you the truth. That scripture is about if you claim to not have sin, then you never admitted to being a sinner and then you never repented of your sins---then the truth is not in you and you were never saved.

Actually, it says exactly what it says, and what you are claiming it says is not what it actually says.

..

 

[Shaolin]

I don't believe you, and no wonder, look how you speak in English.
Tongues were a sign to the Jews, the sign to the Jews was given a long time ago.

Right!!! LOL!!! It doesn't matter what you believe about me, but what matters is what Scripture says and how you interpret it...and so far you demonstrate that you cannot interpret Scripture worth a hill of beans.

Tongues are not just a sign to the Jews...Scripture tells us exactly what tongues are a sign for - Paul says they are for unbelievers, since there are still unbelievers today, then there are still tongues. Again, you are not living in the real world, only your own schizophrenic world of make believe, not according to Scripture.

..

 

[God's Truth]

Obedience and surrender keep us close to Him.....not false wisdom and false knowledge of His Word.
Obedience.....as in to Paul's instruction to the Church here written about 20 years after Jesus had ascended......
"Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues." - 1Corinthians 14:39

We have to have obedience to the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

Well these so-called "fake" tongues receive many marvellous answers from God - healings, miracles, blessings, problems solved, overcoming sin, etc etc etc
I will continue with what I have - the power of God dwelling within me.
And what does your church have to offer??

No such thing as receiving healing and miracles etc through tongues. Give the scriptures that say that.

 

[God's Truth]

Again, you demonstrate that you don't know Scripture and that you don't know what you are talking about...again, for the benefit of the readers (since you are not listening)...

1 Corinthians 12:28
And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

Ephesians 4:11-14
11 And God gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,
12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,
13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

I already explained this to you. It was during the time of the laying of the foundation. The foundation has been laid a long time ago. We have the Bible and it is finished. The Bible tells us how to make Jesus our Teacher, how to be reconciled to God, a child of His, an heir, and the church is Jesus' body.

Again...God has appointed "in the church" which means as long as the church is gracing the face of the earth, there will be apostles. Then you make another false point that you obviously do not understand, that an "apostle" was only a person who learned the Gospel straight from Christ Himself, which Scripture says otherwise:

Acts 14:14
But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out into the crowd, crying out,

Galatians 1:19
But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.

According to Scripture, not the false ideologies of carnal men, Barnabas and James were also apostles, yet neither of them learned from the mouth of Jesus. You have been demonstrated a peddler of false information on two accounts now where Scripture says that you are wrong.

...

What do you mean Barnabas and James weren't taught by Jesus, how do you know that? There are two Apostles to the Lamb named James, and, Jesus has a brother named James.

 

[God's Truth]

Since God does not contradict Himself, it is obvious that the voices you are hearing and listening to are NOT from God, which means they are not from Jesus.
That should be a hint that the voices you are listening to are NOT from God...
I didn't give you an insult or false judgment...the fact that you cannot see the truth right there in front of your eyes tells all about you...
Not according to what you have typed from your own mind...
And I have given you Scripture that Scripture cannot contradict. Therefore, if one passage says something that seems to contradict another passage, we must harmonize those two passages together because, again, God does NOT contradict Himself, ever! That means, your interpretation of the text is WRONG and in ERROR, not the Scripture. The sooner you come to grips with the fact that you are in error, the sooner you can begin to amend your personal false doctrine with Scripture.
Like Jesus said, I don't condemn anyone...Scripture and your own words will condemn you. Judging what you claim to be right or wrong is not condemning, you need to learn basic English it sounds like.

I don't agree with anything you say.

 

[God's Truth]

Actually, you have not proven any of your personal beliefs with Scripture, because you don't know how to read and interpret Scripture...you have demonstrated that very clearly. In fact, Scripture has proven you to NOT know what you are talking about, on at least three different counts now.

This demonstrates exactly what I say when I say that you don't know what you are talking about. You "think" you do, but Scripture demonstrates that you do not.

..

You were taught by false teacher of the denomination of your choice.

Jesus is my Teacher.

 

[God's Truth]

Yes, those verses do say what they say, the problem is that your interpretation is way out in left field - a strike and error on your part. Because you don't know the basic rules of Biblical interpretation, you jack up the intended meaning of these verses and read into them what your false bias tells you to see.

..

Denial is no defense for the truth.

 

[God's Truth]

See...this is what I mean. I child could understand what Paul is saying in the text when it is made easier to read...for your sake, I will attempt to help you understand since you can't grasp it on your own:

Romans 7:15-25*
15 I do not understand my own actions; how I keep doing what I hate instead of what I keep wanting to do.

According to you, after Paul was saved, he kept only doing what he hated and couldn't do what he wanted to do?
The Apostle Paul only did bad?

16 Now, if I am doing what I do not want to do, then I agree with the law - it is good.
17 So, now I am no longer the one authoring those actions, but it is the sin nature that dwells within my flesh that is doing them;

You claim that after Paul was saved he only did sinful things with his flesh? So much for Paul making his body obedient so he doesn't lose his salvation.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

18 I understand that nothing good dwells within me - that is, nothing good dwells within my flesh; because I have the desire to do what is right in God's eyes, but my flesh gives me no power to carry out those things.

You say nothing good dwells in Paul after he was saved? You really want to say that?

19 Because the things that I do are not the things that I want to do, but the wickedness that I do not want to be doing, that is what I keep on doing.

According to you, Paul only did wicked things?

20 This is a spiritual principal: if I keep doing what I do not want to do after the inner man, then it is no longer my doing - the sin that dwells within my flesh is now the cause.
21 Therefore, I find it to be a spiritual principal that when I want to do what is right in God's eyes, wickedness is always present,
22 because I delight in the law of God according to the inner man...
23 but I see a different principal in my body of flesh that continuously wages war against the law of my mind, and constantly tries to dominate me and bring me back into subjection to the principal of sin that still dwells in my body.
24 How miserable this makes me! What can deliver me from this flesh of sinful appetites for death?
25 But thanksgiving be to God through Jesus Christ the Lord! Therefore, accordingly, in my inner man I serve the law of God, but the flesh is bound in slavery to the principal of sin.

This is straight from the Greek with its grammar fully intact (which most English translations butcher or ignore for their biased false doctrines). Pay careful attention to the personal pronouns Paul uses and their tense - all about him in the PRESENT TENSE. He says that he still has sin problems, he does not say that he doesn't.

Paul is speaking of someone under the law without faith.

It is beyond ridiculous that anyone thinks Paul is speaking of himself after being saved.

 

[God's Truth]

Right!!! LOL!!! It doesn't matter what you believe about me, but what matters is what Scripture says and how you interpret it...and so far you demonstrate that you cannot interpret Scripture worth a hill of beans.

Tongues are not just a sign to the Jews...Scripture tells us exactly what tongues are a sign for - Paul says they are for unbelievers, since there are still unbelievers today, then there are still tongues. Again, you are not living in the real world, only your own schizophrenic world of make believe, not according to Scripture.

..

Tongues were a sign to the Jews. The sign was given. It was a gift given as a testimony from God. God gave the testimony. It was during the laying the foundation. The foundation has been laid. The people who spoke in tongues spoke mysteries. All the mysteries have been given. Tongues have ceased.

 

[Waggles]

No such thing as receiving healing and miracles etc through tongues. Give the scriptures that say that.

The question was - "what has your church have to offer?"
Three hymns and a short sermon followed by tea and biscuits?

 

[Waggles]

Tongues have ceased.

No they have not.
Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[Waggles]

No such thing as receiving healing and miracles etc through tongues. Give the scriptures that say that.

Jesus himself declared such:
Mark 16:15 And he said to them, Go into all the world, and preach the gospel to the whole creation.
16 Who hath believed and is baptized shall be saved; but who hath disbelieved shall be condemned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that have believed: in my name shall they cast out demons, speak with tongues;
18 and in their hands they shall take up serpents, and if they drink aught deadly, it shall in now wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Rom 15:18 For I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience - by word and deed,
19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God - so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ;

Acts 28:8 It happened that the father of Publius lay sick with fever and dysentery. And Paul visited him and prayed, and putting his hands on him, healed him.
9 And when this had taken place, the rest of the people on the island who had diseases also came and were cured.
1Cor 14:18 I [Paul] thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you.

 

[vhusley]

We have to have obedience to the truth.

Jesus IS the truth. He is “the way, the TRUTH, and the life.” (John 14:6) He is the “Word made flesh,”(John 1:14). And after His flesh was crucified and was resurrected, He ascended and sent His Spirit…the Comforter…..the Spirit of Truth, to dwell in us (John 14, Acts 1:4-8)

God’sWord even goes as far as to plainly tell us that He is Spirit….and that we MUST “worship Him in Spirit AND in Truth” (John 4:24).
So how exactly do YOU worship Him in the Spirit?

So, you say you have knowledge of the Truth….that you believe….great….”even the devils believe” and know the truth of who God is. But belief, and knowledge of the truth is not enough.
The real question is: do you have the Holy Spirit? “Have you received the Holy Ghost since you first believed?” (Acts 19:2)

Sadly, based on the false doctrine you are defending here, I’d have to guess that you have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit….otherwise your answers regarding the primary question of the OP would be quite different than what you are espousing here.

And according to Jesus in His words to Nicodemus, “…..unless a man be born of water AND of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

I will pray for you my friend; that your eyes and your heart may be opened to truth. If I knew your name, I’d lift it up before the Lord right now.

 

[Garee]

Well these so-called "fake" tongues receive many marvellous answers from God - healings, miracles, blessings, problems solved, overcoming sin, etc etc etc
I will continue with what I have - the power of God dwelling within me.
And what does your church have to offer??

The power to wonder and confuse with no end of the matter. ?

Marvelous answers from God like for instance looking at the foundation of the doctrine of tongues .

Isaiah 28:13 But they would not listen to him. So the Lord’s words will be senseless sounds to them:

“Saw lasaw saw lasaw.Qaw laqaw qaw laqaw. Ze’er sham ze’er sham.”

When the people try to walk, they will fall backwards. They will be defeated, trapped, and captured.