Talk Jesus Statement of Faith

[Charlie24]

I believe that God will not "cease to be the Son" in terms of ceasing to be Jesus Christ, but rather that the specific roles and functions associated with the Sonship—particularly those of mediation and redemption—will be completed. In their view, Jesus Christ, who is the manifestation of the one true God, will continue to exist eternally. However, the distinct role of the Son as mediator will be fulfilled, and God will be understood fully and completely as one.

After the final defeat of all enemies, including death, the Son will subject Himself to the Father. Oneness Pentecostals interpret this as the completion of the Son's mediatorial role, leading to God being "all in all."

While passages affirms the eternal nature of Jesus' priesthood, I believe that His intercessory role as mediator will reach its fulfillment once His redemptive work is fully accomplished.

I totally disagree! You can't look at the Father, The Son, the Holy Spirit as playing roles. There's no role playing.

Who they are and what they have done is permanent. There's nothing temporary about it, no role playing.

Some will say, maybe most, that Christ has always been the Son of God. I'll not argue against that!

I believe God has from eternity past seen The Word, who would become Jesus of Nazareth, as the Son who would redeem man from his sins.

So if someone says, hey Charlie, Christ has always been the Son, I say, Amen!

 

[Charlie24]

He will always be our Saviour and High Priest throughout eternity, I never doubted that at all. But on that side of Heaven I most likely wouldn't refer to Him as the Son of God I would just simply call Him God, maybe that's just me.

I would call Him God also. But to deny His Sonship on a whim with nothing solid to back it, imo, is dangerous and reckless.

 

[First and the Last]

I totally disagree! You can't look at the Father, The Son, the Holy Spirit as playing roles. There's no role playing.

Who they are and what they have done is permanent. There's nothing temporary about it, no role playing.

Some will say, maybe most, that Christ has always been the Son of God. I'll not argue against that!

I believe God has from eternity past seen The Word, who would become Jesus of Nazareth, as the Son who would redeem man from his sins.

So if someone says, hey Charlie, Christ has always been the Son, I say, Amen!

It's important to clarify that when I speak of God manifesting as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I am not suggesting that God is merely "playing roles" (sorry for using that word) or engaging in temporary acts. Instead, these manifestations are permanent and integral aspects of God’s relationship with humanity.

Father: As the Father, God is the Creator and Sustainer of all things (Isaiah 64:8).
Son: As the Son, God took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ to redeem humanity (John 1:14).
Holy Spirit: As the Holy Spirit, God is actively present in the world, empowering and indwelling believers (John 14:26).

I view God as three manifestations of the same single divine being. Each manifestation serves a unique and essential role, but all are expressions of the one God. These manifestations are not temporary but reflect God’s eternal nature and His plan for interacting with creation. For example, Jesus’ role as the Son includes His incarnation, crucifixion, and ongoing intercession, which are viewed as essential and permanent aspects of God’s redemptive work (Hebrews 7:24-25).

 

[First and the Last]

I would call Him God also. But to deny His Sonship on a whim with nothing solid to back it, imo, is dangerous and reckless.

I don't deny His Sonship I just believe (bible doesn't explicitly state but inferred) the reason for the Sonship is no longer required once all enemies are subdued and final Judgement made and the Son being put under subjection to God and we are forever in Glory.

 

[Charlie24]

It's important to clarify that when I speak of God manifesting as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, I am not suggesting that God is merely "playing roles" (sorry for using that word) or engaging in temporary acts. Instead, these manifestations are permanent and integral aspects of God’s relationship with humanity.

Father: As the Father, God is the Creator and Sustainer of all things (Isaiah 64:8).
Son: As the Son, God took on human flesh in the person of Jesus Christ to redeem humanity (John 1:14).
Holy Spirit: As the Holy Spirit, God is actively present in the world, empowering and indwelling believers (John 14:26).

I view God as three manifestations of the same single divine being. Each manifestation serves a unique and essential role, but all are expressions of the one God. These manifestations are not temporary but reflect God’s eternal nature and His plan for interacting with creation. For example, Jesus’ role as the Son includes His incarnation, crucifixion, and ongoing intercession, which are viewed as essential and permanent aspects of God’s redemptive work (Hebrews 7:24-25).

I agree with much of what you have been saying.

A few things here and there I may disagree.

For example, you place the Father as the sustainer of all things. Heb. 1:3 says it is Christ that upholds all things by the Word of His power.

This verse is interpreted by the scholars as Christ being the sustainer of the universe by just speaking it to be so.

Heb. 1:3

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"

These are small things that don't amount to a hill of beans between two Brothers in Christ.

But to deny the Sonship, even if you directing it toward a future time, is not a small thing.

 

[Charlie24]

I don't deny His Sonship I just believe (bible doesn't explicitly state but inferred) the reason for the Sonship is no longer required once all enemies are subdued and final Judgement made and the Son being put under subjection to God and we are forever in Glory.

The subjection of Christ to God is Biblical, a fact. That does not mean the Father/Son relationship ends at that time.

Surly you can see that we need more that this to picture a future where the Sonship ends.

 

[First and the Last]

For example, you place the Father as the sustainer of all things. Heb. 1:3 says it is Christ that upholds all things by the Word of His power.

This verse is interpreted by the scholars as Christ being the sustainer of the universe by just speaking it to be so.

1, Christ is God incarnate. 2. He is the Eternal Word perfectly fits.

Heb. 1:3

"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"

But to deny the Sonship, even if you directing it toward a future time, is not a small thing.

What the Sonship accomplished will be eternal. I am just saying after the complete fullness of time what the Son came to do is full and complete and He is fully recognized as the Complete deity of God in the glorified body of Christ forever.

 

[First and the Last]

The subjection of Christ to God is Biblical, a fact. That does not mean the Father/Son relationship ends at that time.

Surly you can see that we need more that this to picture a future where the Sonship ends.

I understand and admit that the Scriptures nowhere says it exactly. But is worthy to look into. But sometimes we have trouble looking past the tradition of Oneness and Trinitarian and How our individual denominations taught us and strictly look at what Scripture reads. Interpret Scripture best we can based on Scripture and basic knowledge of language.

 

[First and the Last]

Heb. 1:3
"Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:"

The term "express image" (Greek: χαρακτήρ, charaktēr) means an exact representation or imprint. "His person" (Greek: ὑπόστασις, hypostasis) refers to the substance or essence of God. This means that Jesus is the exact representation of God's being. This indicates that Jesus is not a separate person from God but is the visible manifestation of the one indivisible God. Jesus embodies the fullness of God's nature in a tangible, visible form.

Colossians 1:15: "The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation." This verse supports the idea that Jesus makes the invisible God visible and accessible.

Jesus sustains all things by His powerful word, indicating His divine authority and omnipotence. I hold that this sustaining power is God's power manifest in Jesus Christ. This aligns with the belief that Jesus, as the incarnate Word (John 1:1-3, 14), exercises all divine attributes and authority.

 

[Charlie24]

1, Christ is God incarnate. 2. He is the Eternal Word perfectly fits.


What the Sonship accomplished will be eternal. I am just saying after the complete fullness of time what the Son came to do is full and complete and He is fully recognized as the Complete deity of God in the glorified body of Christ forever.

The Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest said that "express image" in Heb. 1:3 KJV, is referring to an exact reproduction, separate entity. "Express image" occurs nowhere else in the New Testament.

Express image of His person, "person" declares His humanity.

Vincent said,

"Here the essential Being of God is conceived as setting its distinctive stamp upon Christ, coming into definite and characteristic expression in His Person, so that the Son bears the exact impress of the Divine Nature and Character."

 

[Charlie24]

I understand and admit that the Scriptures nowhere says it exactly. But is worthy to look into. But sometimes we have trouble looking past the tradition of Oneness and Trinitarian and How our individual denominations taught us and strictly look at what Scripture reads. Interpret Scripture best we can based on Scripture and basic knowledge of language.

Interpretation is the problem we humans have. Every line in the Scripture has a different interpretation.

Most of the time I just pass off what I consider a misinterpretation without throwing a red flag.

But this claim of the Sonship must be pointed out that it needs much more Scripture support to even consider.

 

[First and the Last]

The Greek scholar Kenneth Wuest said that "express image" in Heb. 1:3 KJV, is referring to an exact reproduction, separate entity. "Express image" occurs nowhere else in the New Testament.

Express image of His person, "person" declares His humanity.

Vincent said,

"Here the essential Being of God is conceived as setting its distinctive stamp upon Christ, coming into definite and characteristic expression in His Person, so that the Son bears the exact impress of the Divine Nature and Character."

"Express image" (χαρακτήρ, charaktēr): Meaning "exact representation" or "imprint." Originally used for the impression made by a stamp or seal. This term indicates that Jesus is the precise and perfect representation of God's essence.

"Person" (ὑπόστασις, hypostasis): Translates to "substance" or "essence." It refers to the underlying reality or nature of something. In this context, it denotes the very essence of God, suggesting that Jesus embodies the true substance of God’s being.

 

[First and the Last]

Interpretation is the problem we humans have. Every line in the Scripture has a different interpretation.

Most of the time I just pass off what I consider a misinterpretation without throwing a red flag.

But this claim of the Sonship must be pointed out that it needs much more Scripture support to even consider.

I perfectly agree. I absolutely believe that what the Sonship accomplished is forever eternal. And it does need further study.

 

[First and the Last]

Once the redemptive work is fully accomplished and all things are brought under God’s authority, the specific role of the Son will be completed. This does not imply that Jesus ceases to exist but that His specific mediatorial role will no longer be necessary. Instead, the full deity of God the Father will be fully and eternally manifested in Christ's glorified body. Do you not agree and if so what part?

 

[Charlie24]

"Express image" (χαρακτήρ, charaktēr): Meaning "exact representation" or "imprint." Originally used for the impression made by a stamp or seal. This term indicates that Jesus is the precise and perfect representation of God's essence.

"Person" (ὑπόστασις, hypostasis): Translates to "substance" or "essence." It refers to the underlying reality or nature of something. In this context, it denotes the very essence of God, suggesting that Jesus embodies the true substance of God’s being.

Christ is the express image of the Father's person revealed to man. Where we part ways is that Christ is a separate entity.

Let me ask you this. Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, as the Scripture says.

Do you believe the Father, as one entity can be Father and Son at the same time sitting together on the throne?

 

[First and the Last]

Christ is the express image of the Father's person revealed to man. Where we part ways is that Christ is a separate entity.

Let me ask you this. Christ is seated at the right hand of the Father, as the Scripture says.

Do you believe the Father, as one entity can be Father and Son at the same time sitting together on the throne?

God is Omnipresent He can be in Heaven and Jesus at the same time. But we have to consider this: Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a (single) throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. So it is God in all His glory through the face and glorified body of Jesus Christ that sits on the throne. Because we know God is invisible otherwise.

 

[Charlie24]

God is Omnipresent He can be in Heaven and Jesus at the same time. But we have to consider this: Revelation 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a (single) throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. So it is God in all His glory through the face and glorified body of Jesus Christ that sits on the throne

That's amazing that you can actually believe that!

So the One sitting next to the Father right now is just the image of the Father and has no person of Himself.

I go back to my statement of blasphemy.

 

[First and the Last]

That's amazing that you can actually believe that!

So the One sitting next to the Father right now is just the image of the Father and has no person of Himself.

I go back to my statement of blasphemy.

Jesus Christ Has all the nature of God and Man, you know this. He is the only visible manifestation of the Father. I don't understand how you don't see this in Scripture. He is not an empty shell sitting on the one throne.

 

[Charlie24]

Jesus Christ Has all the nature of God and Man, you know this. He is the only visible manifestation of the Father. I don't understand how you don't see this in Scripture. He is not an empty shell sitting on the one throne.

If He is not a person of His own, His own entity, then He is an empty shell filled with the Glory of the Father.

Show me how I'm wrong!

 

[Curtis]

As Jesus said, "Make sure that the light that is in you be not "darkness"
You can NOT see what you refuse to see.

Light shines into the "darkness" but the "darkness" comprehends it not.

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.